Guest Posted August 6, 2009 Posted August 6, 2009 They need to set up an independent corruption task force, telephone hot lines & all that. From the day this is set up, any senior people convicted of bribery should be executed. The rest should be jailed for a minimum of 20 years. Quote
Guest lvdkeyes Posted August 6, 2009 Posted August 6, 2009 Execution for corruption is a bit extreme, don't you think? Besides, no matter what we think should be done, it is never going to go away. Quote
Guest fountainhall Posted August 6, 2009 Posted August 6, 2009 no matter what we think should be done, it is never going to go away Not sure I agree with that. In this part of the world, Hong Kong and Singapore are pretty much corruption-free - certainly in respect of civil servants and government officials, the judiciary and the police. If you mean completely eradicate it, then you are probably right. But I am certain it can be very dramatically reduced if the right measures are put in place. This necessitates a team that is completely independent of existing law enforcement, the abiility of ordinary citizens to contact it confidentially, witness protection measures etc. I do not agree with execution, but very long prison sentences and confiscation of assets are certainly one way to go, along with powers of extradition to bring convicted felons back to serve their time in Thailand - as happened in Hong Kong. Quote
Guest lvdkeyes Posted August 6, 2009 Posted August 6, 2009 Back in the US I know a Filipina who said the only way for corruption to be eradicated in the Philippines (corruption there is much the same as here) would be for all the pre-school children to be removed from PI and not returned until all the older people are dead. Of course, it is a silly idea, but she was making a point. In order for the corruption to end the people need to want it to end and here they don't care enough about it to do something about it. Look at the huge number of Thaksin supporters who are still around, even though they know he did corrupt things, but he gave some money (small amount) to poor people. They are willing to overlook the corruption which is ingrained in the culture from the very top on down. Quote
Guest Geezer Posted August 6, 2009 Posted August 6, 2009 Bangkok Scams is an interesting website. While it deals with scams directed primarily at tourists, it gives some idea of the complicity of the police. http://www.bangkokscams.com/ Quote
KhorTose Posted August 6, 2009 Posted August 6, 2009 Bangkok Scams is an interesting website. While it deals with scams directed primarily at tourists, it gives some idea of the complicity of the police. http://www.bangkokscams.com/ Great site Geezer, thanks for the info. On another note I have seen police departments cleaned up by doing what Z909 suggests--without the executions. http://www.historyli...fm&file_id=3292 Can it be down to a whole country, or city states? Heck yaa if it starts at the top. All that is necessary is that those in power have the will and ability to do what is necessary. The problem is that most people will go along with what is, rather then fight to get changes. I am especially surprised at the comment about the PI. Corruption under Marcos got so bad that the whole nation rose up and tossed him out. Unfortunitely Corizon Aquino had the will, but lacked the ability to reform the system (may she rest in peace). Get someone who has both qualities, and corruption can be turned back. By ability I mean the ability to find and choose the right people for the job of cleaning up the system. Quote
Bob Posted August 6, 2009 Posted August 6, 2009 Unfortunately, I don't believe there is any solution for Thailand. It's just too damn endemic to the whole system. I've read a few histories of Thailand and many have referred to the patronage system started by the first kings as how official and endemic corruption got it's start. The king had no money to pay somebody to govern an outlying territory so he sent surrogates to rule those areas and to collect taxes for him - with the deal being that the collector got to keep a percentage of the take. And they've been taking their "percentage" ever since then. For the cops, the only way to start to try to improve that situation is to pay them a decent salary. But they don't and the cops, to live, really have no choice but to supplement their official salaries with tea money. I'd bet quite a lot that the vast majority of cops make a hell of lot more from unofficial sources than from their government-paid salaries. Quote
Guest fountainhall Posted August 7, 2009 Posted August 7, 2009 For the cops, the only way to start to try to improve that situation is to pay them a decent salary Bob is correct. If you are going to fight a war on corruption, you have at the same time to raise salaries of those who are probably the most corrupt - police, civil servants etc.- to a level where they can bring up families on their salaries without too much difficulty. For politicians, as Lew Kwan Yew decided decades ago in Singapore, if you want to attract bright and talented individuals, you have to pay them roughly in line with private sector salaries. Interesting that there was a huge scandal in Britain 3 months ago which claimed the scalps of several high ranking politicians. In the Thatcher years, rather than raise the salaries of members of parliament at a time when wage restraint was being encouraged, she allowed a significant widening of the expenses which MP's could claim. This eventually got way out of control until a London newspaper exposed it and heads rolled. One Cabinet Minister even went as far as being reimbursed for 2 porn movies her husband had watched on a cable channel She resigned. Quote
Guest lvdkeyes Posted August 7, 2009 Posted August 7, 2009 As the saying goes: If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. Quote
Gaybutton Posted August 7, 2009 Posted August 7, 2009 If you are going to fight a war on corruption, you have at the same time to raise salaries of those who are probably the most corrupt I'm not so sure that would work. Unless something truly effective is done to put a stop to the corruption, I doubt that simply raising salaries would change much of any of it. No matter how much money corrupt cops get, it's never enough. Why would they stop fleecing people if it is still just as easy? When it comes to money, the more the merrier. Quote
Guest fountainhall Posted August 7, 2009 Posted August 7, 2009 I'm not so sure that would work It would only work in conjunction with an independent and powerful anti-corruption watchdog with very sharp teeth - as in Hong Kong. The penalties for being found to be corrupt must be a major deterrant. I doubt if traffic cops would be so keen to pull you over for a few hundred Baht if that meant they could be put in jail, fined heavily and even demoted. Civil liberties groups will yell that the punishment does not fit the crime. But I do believe it's the only way to effectively root out most of the endemic corruption. Another problem issue in Thailand is the army and its many tentacles into profit-making ventures in civilian life, including ownership of media outlets. I suspect that would all have to change if corruption is to be rooted out. And I admit I have absolutely no idea at all how that could be achieved. Quote
Gaybutton Posted August 7, 2009 Posted August 7, 2009 I admit I have absolutely no idea at all how that could be achieved. I know exactly how it can be achieved. It can be achieved via a miracle . . . Quote
Guest fountainhall Posted August 7, 2009 Posted August 7, 2009 Glory! Hallelujah! Solution found Quote
Guest Posted August 7, 2009 Posted August 7, 2009 I know exactly how it can be achieved. It can be achieved via a miracle . . . Reminds me of Steve Martin. Want to know how a miracle can be achieved? Quote
Guest Posted August 7, 2009 Posted August 7, 2009 Executions remove the option of arranging a coup & letting everyone out again. Perhaps it's a little extreme, but somewhere they need to draw a line in the sand & clamp down on any corruption after a certain date. Quote
Guest rainwalker Posted August 7, 2009 Posted August 7, 2009 KhorTose said One thing that you might consider is that in order for the extortion to work the person arrested has to want to be somewhere else in a hurry. For instance, you must need to return to your own country to go to work, or just get back to their family. Should I be caught in such a scheme, I would just wait them out until I got a lawyer who would get me bail. I would much rather spend the money fighting it, and my time writing letters and embarrassing the BIBs all that I could, rather then pay them off. The worst they could do would be to deport me, and while I would hate that, that is still better then letting them extort money from me. This kind of aggravation with authorities is, as many of these situations are, essentially a set up to bring pressure to settle to bear, and they are usually successful in getting financial consideration from those accused. I suppose that the stronger the set up and the more serious the situation, the higher the levy. I'm not going to rail on about being innocent because that is not the point in these circumstances - guilt or innocence are irrelevant. Finding yourself in or near the Thai judicial system is the point. Being arrested or being a person of interest is tantamount to being considered guilty and being a prudent guy, I would have no desire to put myself in the hands of a corrupt system that makes the presumption of guilt the guiding philosophy - unlike the western model which presumes innocence. I mean, how can you prove that you didn't do something, that you are innocent?? And if you fight in court, if found guilty, you get to serve a full sentence; if you plead guilty, you only serve 1/2 the time! I think better to suck it up, pay them off, lick your wounds, and drive on... Quote
Guest HeyGay Posted August 7, 2009 Posted August 7, 2009 This kind of aggravation with authorities is, as many of these situations are, essentially a set up to bring pressure to settle to bear, and they are usually successful in getting financial consideration from those accused. I suppose that the stronger the set up and the more serious the situation, the higher the levy. I'm not going to rail on about being innocent because that is not the point in these circumstances - guilt or innocence are irrelevant. Finding yourself in or near the Thai judicial system is the point. Being arrested or being a person of interest is tantamount to being considered guilty and being a prudent guy, I would have no desire to put myself in the hands of a corrupt system that makes the presumption of guilt the guiding philosophy - unlike the western model which presumes innocence. I mean, how can you prove that you didn't do something, that you are innocent?? And if you fight in court, if found guilty, you get to serve a full sentence; if you plead guilty, you only serve 1/2 the time! I think better to suck it up, pay them off, lick your wounds, and drive on... Well I think your way off line and may I say a little naive, If I was you I would take your observations with a pinch of salt. If you look at any of the well known arrests and may be with the case, and allegations of a serious nature, with proven facts to back them up, The Thai Police are very good at not setting people up and if in any way you can prove they have, now days they will put into play a very tried and tested procedure, to make sure the innocent are not set up and the guilty are arrested, Its like your saying oh the guy ran out of the back door when he saw the police knocking on the front door, because he was innocent. No way if this was the case the other person arrested and still waiting his fate, would be free long ago. If there is extortion as with the last notorious couple from Rayong area, who have managed to get millions out of people in Pattaya over the years, by setting them up and saying they have been with underage boys. are now in prison themselves. I have been informed the main Guy below with yellow shirt, in this case has extorted Millions over the years from farangs in and around Sunee plaza. And now he is awaiting his day before the Judge. It will be interesting to see if he can buy him off as Rainwalker says is what the police are mainly up to extorting money from made up stories tell it to the judge he will laugh as we all are. http://www.gaythaila...rom-pedophiles/ http://www.pattayada...NEWS=0000009467 Sound like a smoking gun, that will explode when least exspected I hear. Quote
