A sobering article regarding extortion.

[Guest Geezer]

A sobering article in the Bangkok Post regarding extortion at Suvarnabhumi and elsewhere. Be very careful!

 

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/investigation/21361/scandal-at-suvarnabhumi

[Gaybutton]

Be very careful!

King Power may be totally innocent of any wrongdoing, but the damage is already done. If they are innocent, then they are going to lose quite a lot of money unfairly. But they're the ones who have to find ways to deal with the problem. I, for one, don't need anything from their duty-free shop so badly that I would be willing to risk something similar happening to me. I won't set foot in any shop at the airport anymore unless there is a dire need. It's not worth the risk. Despite the fact that thousands of people pass through the airport every day, and only rarely do these incidents occur, the fact that they occur at all is enough to keep me out of the airport shops.

 

If, for some reason, I do patronize an airport shop, I'm going to make damned sure of what is in my bag and I will keep the receipts for whatever I bought, making sure I was given an accurate receipt. But the safest thing is not to even enter the shops, not even to look around. I might end up a victim anyhow, but it's hard to accuse someone of shoplifting if they never even entered a shop.

 

Until they come up with a way to guarantee that such incidents cannot occur, they won't get any business from me and I'll bet there are plenty of others who feel the same way.

 

Another thing to keep in mind according to the article, is how to respond if someone approaches you, no matter how official looking he might be. I would absolutely refuse to cooperate in any way without first having someone working a desk, who is obviously a genuine employee, contact airport security and having them send someone over to verify that I have been approached by someone genuine. If that doesn't work, I would start shouting "Police! Police!" at the top of my lungs. I might create a scene that way, but I won't be ripped off by some kind of a scam artist preying on innocent people.

[Guest fountainhall]

This whole saga is doing quite a bit of damage to the airport's reputation, if the not quite the country's - yet.

 

I am now not sure who to believe. Re the British couple who seemed to be the first involved in this can of worms, King Power posted a video on their site which, to me, clearly shows the lady taking a small article like a wallet and putting it in her bag. That is pretty damning evidence. Yet I have since seen more video on the internet which purportedly shows this lady actually paying for something at the counter.

 

Given the history of this particular case and all the written accounts about it, I do not think this is the same lady. Be that as it may, and accepting that there will always be the odd passenger with a tendency to steal, there are now too many cases that prove some scam is in operation. This certainly involves people who are allegedly in the police force and shady interpreters and middle men who extract the cash.

 

Where King Power and its employees fit into the puzzle, I have no idea. Although I go in and out of the airport regularly, I never shop at King Power because I find its prices too high. Even the liquor is cheaper at many other airports in the region. So if they're suffering financially, I say 'tough shit'! Further, I find it hard to believe that King Power can be totally innocent. After all, is this not the company which was found to have taken over vastly more space at Suvarnabhumi than they are entitled to under their contract? And were the company not going to have their contract annulled because it had been so brazenly breached? Yet, 'surprise' (no, that should be 'no surprise'), there is no new tender out. King Power is being allowed to continue on payment of some additional rent. WIll the book be thrown at anyone in King Power or at the Airport Authority for such blatant corruption? Stupid question!

 

Where corruption reigns at the top, it will undoubtedly trickle down to the lower ranks.

[Gaybutton]

I am now not sure who to believe.

I don't think it matters very much. Even if the British couple were absolutely guilty, that wouldn't justify the shakedown after they were arrested. If it was handled the way it was supposed to be handled, then they would have been arrested and given the option of trying to settle with a King Power representative, pay a reasonable bail, or opt to stay in jail until a hearing. But if their story is true (and even if it isn't), now a lot of people are going to be afraid to Shop in King Power at all.

 

Again, even if King Power handled their end of it correctly, the damage is still done no matter who is at fault and King Power is going to have to do something substantial about it unless they want to lose a hell of a lot of customers.

[Guest Geezer]

What I found sobering was not the incident at King Power which I never visit, and has already been well thrashed out on the boards. It was similar incidents, both at the airport and elsewhere in the country.

 

Other cases during the same period, both at the airport and at other tourist spots, have been handled by a lawyer registered with the Lawyers' Council of Thailand, who responds to calls for help from the embassies.

 

[PattayaMale]

I wonder if this type of corruption is limited to shoplifting? Could local news agencies be part of a scam (unknowingly)? I notice many times, newspaper show pictures of farangs being arrested, which makes them look very guilty, but stories are never followed up when charges are dismissed by the court. I wonder if other than being unfairly accused of shoplifting people have been unfairly accused of other crimes with no or inaccurate "evidence"?

[Guest]

There are enough stories around to indicate such corruption is a problem..

 

This will contribute to a reduction in tourist numbers -including those who read about scams on the net & those who have been a victim once & have no intention of repeating the experience.

 

However, as long as it's safe to frequent the more respectable over 18 only gogo bars, I'll probably still be taking holidays in Thailand.

[Guest fountainhall]

King Power is going to have to do something substantial about it unless they want to lose a hell of a lot of customers

 

. . . and I reckon the customers they are most likely to lose are the high spending Japanese, Chinese and Koreans most of whom come on official tour groups. Almost all have tour leaders and local agents. These people are savvy enough to know that they desperately need this tour business, so they'll make sure their clients are advised not to shop at the airport.

[KhorTose]

. . . and I reckon the customers they are most likely to lose are the high spending Japanese, Chinese and Koreans most of whom come on official tour groups. Almost all have tour leaders and local agents. These people are savvy enough to know that they desperately need this tour business, so they'll make sure their clients are advised not to shop at the airport.

 

One thing that you might consider is that in order for the extortion to work the person arrested has to want to be somewhere else in a hurry. For instance, you must need to return to your own country to go to work, or just get back to their family. Should I be caught in such a scheme, I would just wait them out until I got a lawyer who would get me bail. I would much rather spend the money fighting it, and my time writing letters and embarrassing the BIBs all that I could, rather then pay them off. The worst they could do would be to deport me, and while I would hate that, that is still better then letting them extort money from me.

[PattayaMale]

I think the police in these situations put people in a Thai jail, holding them up to 84 days. So this maybe a deterrent to some from staying and fighting.

[Guest alaan]

Well I do use one of the KingPower shops at the airport and I'm certainly not going to let this furore about scams stop me from doing so in the future.

 

For someone to avoid even going into the airport shops is bordering on the paranoid/hysterical as far as I am concerned.The scam has been identified and being aware of it should be sufficient to be able to avoid any problems in my opinion.

 

The only thing i buy (on virtually every departure from the airport)is one pack of 200 cigarettes which i buy for a friend in the uk. It is Bt500 for a 200 pack of L&B...about

[KhorTose]

what i really can't understand is why the Embassy's can't do more to help at the start of an incident.

Nor can I understand why they do not help more. I will tell you how naive I am, I sort of thought that was their job to protect their citizens in a foreign country.

[Gaybutton]

Nor can I understand why they do not help more. I will tell you how naive I am, I sort of thought that was their job to protect their citizens in a foreign country.

An embassy official once told me that the two primary functions of embassies are business and political interests. Citizens who travel to foreign countries, according to him, who get themselves into trouble, whether innocent or guilty, are pretty much on their own. Even when people are arrested, in most cases all the embassy will do for you is provide a list of reputable attorneys.

[Guest fountainhall]

On another website, I have found a posting about 2 more scams allegedly in operation at the airport.

 

Scam 1

 

Another scam at Bangkok Airport is when the Thai customs meet passengers off airplanes from Dubai/Qatar where there is cheap duty-free. The customs tell passengers to put duty free items inside their check-in luggage when they take it off the carousel - or they will be prosecuted for smuggling. They then tell people that it will be OK not to show or declare any duty free items. When the passengers reach the arrivals area, the customs pounce and you are arrested and taken to customs head office at BANG NA and told to pay four times the duty or go straight to jail. There is an ATM machine next door to the customs office. Your goods are kept by the officers and they then pocket the money you have paid them and you are free to go without any criminal record.

Paul Grant, London, UK

 

Scam 2

 

Same happened to me in April this year. The police arrested me and charged me approx £400. There were 5 of us in our group, we purchased 1000 cigarettes at Heathrow, but on leaving the plane at Bangkok the police approached me and told me to keep them in one bag. I did as I was told, and that was the set up, so when I got through customs with the other four people they arrested me and would not accept what we told them. They took copies of my passport and made me sign at least six documents, all in Thai. They would not give me copies so at this moment I don’t know what I signed. They escorted me to an ATM. I have been in touch with the British consulate who asked me if I want to make a complaint but I don’t want to go to another country and find they have done something to my passport. I will never return to Thailand again, it was the scariest time of my life.

Lynn Ward, UK

 

 

The first of these 'scams' seems distinctly odd to me. There are always several people, including the airline's representatives, who meet each arriving flight and would presumably witness what was going on. Then, how on earth do customs agents "tell" passengers - presumaby in english - to put duty-free into their checked baggage when there is always a mad scramble as passengers exit an aircraft. They would have to shout continuously for several minutes. Thirdly, many pasengers will have come through Dubai/Qatar in transit from Europe, and many of these will not be novice flyers. Being asked to put duty free items in your suitcase must surely raise a red-flag.

 

Seems these scam stories are developing a life of their own.

[Gaybutton]

Seems these scam stories are developing a life of their own.

I think you're right. These stories are making it seem as if coming to Thailand at all means you're definitely going to be a victim of something during your trip. I think if customs was really pulling stunts like that, the airlines would start raising hell and so would the media.

 

It is true, however, that Thailand does have strict rules about how many cigarettes can be brought in. I forget the limit, but if you're a smoker I suggest buying your duty-free cigarettes on the way out, not on the way in.

[Guest]

1 There is plenty of time & space around the luggage carousel for people to meet passengers & advise them on their luggage.

 

2 If they make

[Guest lester1]

What a facsinating little reply.

I will ignore the third point as it has nothing helpful to say.

In the many many times I have come through BKK I have never been aware of anybody advising about luggage as the carousels spin around. I have also never been stopped by customs in the Green channel despite often travelling in with 2 or 3 bottles of wine either in hand or check in luggage.

More recently I have noticed that bags are X-rayed in the green channel upon arrival. I was told that they do look for people exceeding the tobacco allowance and that this often is for flights from the Middle East.

The second point suggests that cash raised from scams is directly used to employ English speakers to further increase the workability of the scam. get real. And why well educated English speakers? Surely you mean uneducated, criminal English speakers.

In another thread, I was amused that one farang would even think it is OK for one in a party to hold all the tobacco brought in by them and to then go through customs. Where has he been? This breaks all the rules for using the green channel ( eg even if he /she doeant smoke/drink, make sure your partner uses up his/her full allowance as well as just you)

Much more helpful in a discussion about this would be the great difficulty that transit passengers have nowadays in finding out exactly what they can buy in the Duty Free of their departure airport and then be able to keep it with them as they transit through another. For example, I have read that London duty free purchases may not be allowed through Quatar or Dubai if traveling straight onto BKK.

[Guest fountainhall]

Much more helpful in a discussion about this would be the great difficulty that transit passengers have nowadays in finding out exactly what they can buy in the Duty Free of their departure airport and then be able to keep it with them as they transit through another

 

I have not been through Qatar or Dubai for ages, but I believe the regulations should be the same as most other airports. It is all to do with liquids and gels and the amount you can take through security checks at transit airports. This is still limited at all airports (as far as I am aware) to 10 bottles/tubes/whatever with a maximum content of 100mls per container. These must be in a re-sealable plastic bag and the bag must be taken out at each X-ray check.

 

So if you have a litre of alcohol which you bought in London, the security screeners at Dubai/Qatar etc. will not permit you to take that with you on to your connecting flight to Bangkok - unless it is in a specially sealed bag which many airport duty free shops will now give you if you request it. However, there are exceptions. I believe the US and Australian customs authorities do not permit these special bags (perhaps someone can correct me if I'm wrong). But Australian airports, like Bangkok, have duty free on arrival - although with the Aussie dollar now high again, you'll lose on the exchange rate.

[Guest alaan]

Well i have certainly noticed a definite change in the situation regarding the customs on arrival at the airport.

 

Up to April of this year including a trip in February....in 10 years and over 30 visits to Thailand I had never ever seen anyone stopped at the arrivals customs area. I had also never seen any luggage being checked and on most of the trips seen only one or two officials sitting around disinterested.

 

But on my arrival in April I had bought a 1ltre bottle of Morgans Spiced Rum (because I cannot get it in Thailand..never seen it for sale anywhere) and a bottle of duty free scent from my Uk duty free airport.

[in the UK these items are plced in a sealed bag and cannot be opened until arrival at your final destination...the receipt is taped to the inside of the bag so that the contents with volume and cost can be seen without opening the sealed bag. There is no choice it HAS to be sealed.]

 

On this ocassion I had no room in my hand luggage for the duty free so just laid the bag beside my handluggage on the luggage cart.....and so as usual I start to steam through green chanel deliberately not making any eye contact...never ever been so much as looked at by officials before...but this time I noticed there were quite a few officials hanging around the green channel....and they were giving a visual inspection of the people and carts as they passed through...again i have never seen that before in Bangkok... just as i was passing an official my duty free bag just caught his eye and he kind of chased after me and asked if the bag was duty free...yes i said... "what u have?" not even politely....so i showed him the 1 litre Rum "what the other item??" scent... "ok go". Because it was obviously within the duty free allowance for Thailand I was ok.

 

To be honest i didn't think much more about it......it just seemed to me that they had perhaps been told to do the job they were actually being paid to do instead of just sitting around as normal.

 

But when i visited again in June I did notice even more 'officials' just kind of wandering around the baggage areas....not doing anything in particular just more of them than normal. I had duty free.....but in my hand luggage this time... headed for the green channel as normal planning the usual head down..no eye contact..steam through...only to find that the normally wide area as you enter had been narrowed down by two officials at either side and checking the carts VERY carefully.... not only that...there was a small queue of people maybe 4 or 5 waiting to have their cases checked/Xrayed...and two lots of travelers actually having their cases opened up with contents lying around as the cases were searched.

 

So within 2 months from never seeing anyone stopped or searched to virtually everybody.... if not being stopped...certainly being closely monitored as they slowly passed through the single lane of officials.I was just waved on...my flight was from Amsterdam with a real mix of white, coloured, asian passengers and there was a Middle eastern flight arriving at the same time...and I had time to take in what was going on around because of the requirement to go slowly...i noticed those passengers either being searched or waiting..were all coloured or Middle eastern.

 

So there is definitely something happening....either an official policy of more rigorous customs checks or that policy change simply being a 'front' for more 'opportunities'to earn on the side.

 

I didn't notice anything untowards in the arrivals area after customs. Maybe only less taxi touts with the clipboards hanging around...but that could just be down to the fact that it was the quietest I have ever seen the airport since it opened. There was no queue whatsoever at the immigration area...in fact there were officials waiting for passengers...again something i have never seen there.

 

Just my experiences of arrivals at Bangkok this year.

[Bob]

Back to Geezer's original post, I don't believe there is any problem with the airport shops (at least none that I'm aware of). The problem occurs after the person is caught shoplifting and the alleged extortion is occuring afterwards by the cops who arrest the person.

 

Kingpower is so pissed off that its reputation is being smeared that it posted explanatory letters - and the actual videos of the shopliftings - on its website. As it notes, they can't be responsible for what happens after a shoplifter is arrested.

 

An article in the Bangkok post seems to say the same thing - the problem is with the crooked cops extorting a payoff after the person is arrested.

[Guest fountainhall]

So within 2 months from never seeing anyone stopped or searched to virtually everybody.... if not being stopped...certainly being closely monitored as they slowly passed through the single lane of officials

 

I think this is just coincidence. I am in and out of the airport almost every month. Sometimes there's just a couple of officials at the green channel (and no-one at the red one); at others, there's at least 6 standing there. And sometimes passengers are called over for luggage X-ray checks; at others, everyone sails through.

[PattayaMale]

Even if the problem is with crooked cops and not King Power, who is in the best position to stop the problem. Certainly not the crooked cops. King Power has all the muscle it needs to make this stop.

 

Too many times it seems that no one takes the initiative to stop corruption, even when it is well known. How do you solve the problem? The National Police chief saying, "Oh, please stop crooked cops."???

[Gaybutton]

As it notes, they can't be responsible for what happens after a shoplifter is arrested.

In my opinion, whether they can be responsible or not, the fact remains that these stories and articles are frightening a significant number of people from even entering their shops. So, now it becomes their problem. They're going to have to figure out what to do to allay those fears. People are going to have to feel assured that there is no way for them to become victims of some sort of set-up and extortion racket.

 

Considering the number of people who go through the airport every day and the number of people who buy duty-free items every day, even if the stories are true, the odds of being caught up in that kind of situation are remote. But people are frightened anyway.

 

Personally, I can't think of anything I need so badly or savings substantial enough to risk the possibility, and I know nothing would probably happen. But given these stories, I would probably still walk right by the duty-free shops and do my waiting at the gate.

 

I think part of what adds to the problem is that there are so many scams perpetrated against farang in Thailand that it makes the possibility of being caught up in this kind of situation seem not at all far fetched.

[Bob]

They're going to have to figure out what to do to allay those fears.

 

They're probably screwed no matter what they choose to do. They could send a letter to the cops and tell them not to extort money from people arrested at their shops (yea, that'll work - not!) or they could simply choose never to prosecute shoplifting by foreigners. Actually, the second option is probably the cheapest option for them as they'll probably lose a lot more money because of reduced sales caused by the publicity implying that the shops are in on the extortion scam*.

 

*Which, of course, is possible but there doesn't seem to be an evidence of that yet.

[Guest fountainhall]

Too many times it seems that no one takes the initiative to stop corruption, even when it is well known

 

When corruption is as endemic at virtually all levels of society as it is in Thailand, it's impossible to tackle it in a piecemeal, case by case way. Back in the 1970's, Hong Kong was almost as bad, with very senior police and government officials at the top of a very corrupt pyramid. Its solution may seem to some as overly drastic, but it caught almost all the big fish and corruption has for decades now been a very minor issue there.

 

What they did was set up an Independent Commission Against Corruption (ICAC) totally separate from government and the existing law enforcement system. Those alleged to be corrupt could then be detained and held in custody by a special unit with no links to the police until such time as they could prove that they were in fact not guilty. In essence, it turned the basis of the legal framework on its head - you were guilty until proved innocent. Like all other cases, corruption cases went before courts with juries.

 

I can hear activists screaming about civil rights etc. But the fact is when you have a basically corrupt society, you really have no choice if you want the cancer rooted out. Radical surgery is the only way. In Hong Kong it worked. Sure, there was a hell of an uproar in the early days - almost exclusively by those who were eventually proved to be corrupt. The ICAC continues to operate today, with few that I can recall during 20 years living there raising their voices against it.