Is Thailand shooting itself in the foot with new laws?

[TotallyOz]

I had heard many complain on this trip about new immigration polices and the new laws related to home ownership and the way the Thai government changes it laws and does not grandfather in those that were abiding by the laws when they bought but now are in a state of limbo.

 

I have also heard about those that are actively looking at Cambodia and Laos for their new place to travel and live. Are the laws in these places as stable (even though I don't think Thailand is all that stable). Are home ownership rules different? Is the gay scene there as open? Are people really considering a move to one of these places or is it just frustration?

 

For me, the new 150 baht per ATM transaction is the one thing that really bothers me. It is a little thing but I give all my BF's an ATM when I leave that is US based and for them to take small amounts out is now not possible. The fee here is higher than anywhere I travel. The ability to buy a place here is harder than anywhere I know. It seems that the government keeps making things harder and not easier and I just don't get it.

[Gaybutton]

I just don't get it.

If you do as I do and form an "I Don't Get It" list for Thailand, it won't take long for you to need an additional high capacity hard drive just to store the list.

 

I have no idea how to answer your questions about other countries, but I do know that part of Thailand's rationale is they don't want foreigners buying out their country. The part I don't get is they will allow foreigners to buy 49% of the condo units, but a foreigner cannot buy a house. I would think if a foreigner lives in Thailand and can prove he lives here, then allowing him to buy a house for his own residential purposes wouldn't be such a terrible idea, but that's the way things are.

 

Now that PayPal services Thailand, maybe it would be to your benefit to consider having your boyfriends open a Thai bank account and transfer whatever amounts you give them via PayPal.

[mahjongguy]

- If Laos and Cambodia were better places to live then we'd all be living there. By almost any measure, Thailand is better.

 

- The 150 baht ATM was not set by the government but by an association of Thai banks. That sort of price-fixing would not be allowed in the U.S. but here it's a normal thing. In any case, it's capitalism and the the results will be judged by the marketplace. If the banks feel that overall they are making more money the fee will remain; if not, and all they end up with is bigger stacks of traveler's checks, then they will reduce the fee to a more justifiable 50 baht.

 

"The ability to buy a place here is harder than anywhere I know."

It's a big issue but hardly unique to Thailand. In what desirable Asian country can you purchase land? Be happy that you can buy a condo here.

 

The main theme I hear is that the Thai government is slowly but surely putting the squeeze on all foreigners. I understand that it may seem that way to some but in the past 5 years I have only observed:

- a crackdown on those who stayed here year after year by making border runs. This crackdown has been tweaked a bit and now only affects land crossings. The idea is to eliminate those who don't really have the desirable level of funds to be here, and to flush out those who have warrants out against them from their home countries.

- some threatening words (though no action) against those who use proxy companies to purchase homes. The laws themselves have not changed in years.

[Bob]

I don't have a problem with the new immigration laws as they appear to not affect the usual visitor or person who lives here normally (one who gets a long-stay visa or whatever). The laws seem to be targeted at the foreigners who are more transient (the ones that try to stay in LOS without the proper visa). The frustrating part of the immigration laws is the constant changing of the rules and, of course, the differing interpretation from one office to another office (plus, perhaps, the differing interpretations within the same immigration office).

 

It's my understanding that the trade agreement between the US and Thailand contains a provision that US citizens be allowed to buy property in Thailand but that Thailand has never implemented it (and it appears the US has never insisted on compliance). I'd rather buy a house than a condo for several reasons (cheaper, more private, more room, play with a garden, etc.) but I suppose the "cheaper" part would go out the window if the foreigners all of a sudden were allowed to purchase houses.

 

I know some foreigners who do the "corporation" trick to purchase real estate but I don't trust the Thai government not to clamp down on that at any given time (and I'm not going to risk losing the investment). I'll perhaps do the 30-year lease deal (which I understand a foreigner can legally do) as that will likely get me to my expected dirt nap.

[Gaybutton]

The laws themselves have not changed in years.

That is a very good point. I certainly wouldn't consider stricter enforcement of existing laws as harassment of foreigners.

 

Regarding immigration, Thailand has cracked down on use of visa runs to circumvent immigration laws. For those living in Thailand legitimately, some of the rules seem a little bizarre, but there is nothing new in the actual laws concerning the rules. There have been all kinds of brouhahas over the years that came to nothing. My favorite was a couple years ago when everyone thought they were going to have to produce a map showing how to get from the Immigration office to their place of residence.

 

As for the retirement visa, I have not been asked to produce anything any different from what I have always been asked to produce. As a matter of fact, there is even less to produce than there used to be. Only a few years ago you had to produce a medical certificate in order to get the retirement visa. That is no longer required. However, the requirement to produce a new proof-of-income statement every year is relatively new.

[Guest cottmann]

It's my understanding that the trade agreement between the US and Thailand contains a provision that US citizens be allowed to buy property in Thailand but that Thailand has never implemented it (and it appears the US has never insisted on compliance). I'd rather buy a house than a condo for several reasons (cheaper, more private, more room, play with a garden, etc.) but I suppose the "cheaper" part would go out the window if the foreigners all of a sudden were allowed to purchase houses.

 

I think you are referring to "The Treaty of Amity" between Thailand and the USA. If so, this refers only to American wholly-owned businesses in Thailand being treated like Thai and not foreign-owned business and not to Americans being permitted to buy houses and/or land. The status of the Treaty is difficult to judge because its provisions violate Thailand's obligations under its World Trade Organization membership - i.e., giving privileges to one country's citizens that are not given to others.

 

[2lz2p]

As for the retirement visa, I have not been asked to produce anything any different from what I have always been asked to produce.

 

I agree with GB, the process for retirement visa is very straightforward - I renewed this morning, it took 15 minutes from the time I arrived until I left - pick up passport tomorrow (it used to be you could get it on the same day, but it appears delay is becaouse of increased workload (lady captain had a box full passports - apparently all from yesterday as I was the 2nd applicant this morning) -- anyway, coming back for a few minutes to pick up the passport is, for me, a very minor inconvenience).

 

As to producing a new proof of income letter each year -- Pattaya Immigration Office was apparently the only one that was allowing people to use a photocopy each year instead of original (not sure, but seem to recall that it was Immigration HQ that caused that local policy to be changed - even so, Pattaya Immigration still took the older original rather than requiring you get a new one when they changed their policy).

[Guest HeyGay]

I don’t know why the 15 day Visa law at Cambodian borders, would affect most hardened long time visitors, you just go to the Laos, Consulate, I even pay a guy to wait and he takes and picks up my Passport and visa and brings it to my hotel, fly, to Udon, Thani, train to Knong Khai, or bus, you get double entry 60 days plus 30 day extension 3 months, ok no problem. or in advance of arriving in the LOS go to your local Thai Consulate at your home, or see www.thaivisa.com all info there, and ask for a Non Imigrant 'O' visa or retirment visa, if you have a spare 800,000 baht you can tie up in a Thai Bank for up to 3 months, before you get your visa

 

My boy and I just go to any branch of AEON Bank all over Thailand and in most Carrefour shopping Centers, they advertise and are proud of the fact No charge for foreign ATM money collections there…..

 

If you want to buy a property for a long term investment and you get a good deal the system is working well, its just when you should buy, to get the most out of the Investment you should worry about, I don’t know of any one who has lost money buying in Thailand and who would want to live in Malaysia, where they have much better system for Sexpats, with all those cut dicks yuk even though you don’t even have to pay most of the boys for sex in Malaysia, you cant beat the doe Eye wonders in Thailand, unless you compare them with South Americans or even Cubans, or some of the white blonde Eastern Block guys. I have been Fortunate to meet, but there is really no comparison, if you like the Thai nature as I do.

 

As for living in Cambodia and Laos I have a good friend who bought a nice restaurant in Vientiane Laos called the "Central Restaurant" try it the food is great and good value, he use to be a partner in the Telephone Bar Bnagkok Soi 4, 'Eve' is his name, he was telling me the other day when I was there, it took him 5 years to calm down to the Laos life style and slow pace of living, but now he is use to it he finds it hard to stay in Bangkok for any length of time, for the fast busy life they have there, he says if you have a lover there, its great if you want to shop around, there is much on offer, if you know where to look for it, same as Cambodia its slow uncultured and not easy to live there, so may be Vietnam is the next best place to stay, I know of a few guys who have gone there to work and say they love it after you find the place that suites you to live.

 

I think some guys make problems for themselves, when if you know what your doing its all very easy really. I do agree living in Pattaya is not what it use to be, most of my friends have moved out and are much more happy, including my self, who now lives in a nice house in Bangkok, you are not under the spot light and there is so much more wonderful handsome guys to be had, just like the old days pre 1995 when all you could see was handsome guys, they are still around, but the ones I know would not be seen dead in a gay area or bar. And that’s they way I love them men who know what they want and go out to get it. It’s still always nice to come to visit my many friends in pattaya and it’s always good to leave again even though there is like a drug trying to keep you there longer.

[Gaybutton]

It’s still always nice to come to visit my many friends in pattaya and it’s always good to leave again even though there is like a drug trying to keep you there longer.

It all depends on your point of view. I could never be happy living in Bangkok, but I love living in Pattaya. To me, one of the best things about Thailand is the diversity of available living choices. There is something for every taste. Many love Chiang Mai. Many love living out in the countryside boondocks. Many love Pattaya. Many love Bangkok. Many love smaller cities. And there are still plenty of places besides just those. It all depends on what you are looking for . . . and what you are trying to avoid.

[Guest Astrrro]

Now that PayPal services Thailand, maybe it would be to your benefit to consider having your boyfriends open a Thai bank account and transfer whatever amounts you give them via PayPal.

 

Or have each new boyfriend open an account at your Thai bank. At Ayudatha, you can set up automatic no-fee monthly transfers between your account and his account up to 6 months in advance (though to do this online you'll need to retrieve a "one time password" sent to a Thai mobile).

 

[Gaybutton]

Or have each new boyfriend open an account at your Thai bank.

Certainly that would work if you have a Thai bank account. Not everybody does. I have been trying to convince people to open a Thai bank account during their next visit if they don't already have one. The banking regulations change rather consistently and it is becoming more and more difficult for farang to open a Thai bank account without a non-immigrant visa.

 

Not long ago all you had to do to open a Thai bank account was to walk through the door with a valid passport and 500 baht. Times have changed. Even if you are able to open a Thai bank account, without a long-term visa several banks will not permit you to get online banking.

 

It can't hurt you to have a Thai bank account, folks, and having one can save you from an awful lot of headaches. I don't know why, but I often have quite a difficult time convincing farang friends who repeatedly come to Thailand to take the time to open an account, but some keep putting it off. "I'll do it next trip." By that time you may not be able to. If you are going to listen and open an account, don't wait. Do it as soon as possible, if it is even still possible.

 

If you need to transfer money into your own Thai account or into a boyfriend's account (if you don't have a Thai bank account or online banking) while in your home country, now you can do that with PayPal.

[paulsf]

How do you go about the residential address situation when there for a short time.

I would like to open a bank account when I get there in December, but I'm only in Pattaya for 6 days.

What do the banks require for an address when setting up the account?

 

[Gaybutton]

What do the banks require for an address when setting up the account?

They require you telling them or showing an address. They don't ask for proof. They also don't send out written monthly statement unless you request it.