reader Posted January 12 Posted January 12 From The Star South Korea has decided to ban its nationals from traveling to the "Golden Triangle" region in Laos infamous for criminal activities starting next month, the foreign ministry has announced. The Level 4 travel alert, the highest in the government's four-tier travel advisory system, for the region will take effect Feb 1, Yonhap News Agency citing the ministry. The Golden Triangle Special Economic Zone, located along the Mekong River in the Laos province of Bokeo, is known for illegal activities, such as trafficking and scamming. The decision to raise the advisory came as South Koreans have been subject to multiple crimes despite a Level 3 alert being issued for the region since Nov 24, the ministry said. Such crimes involved luring the victims into working for a local company and forcing them to engage in voice phishing scams, prostitution or other illegal activities, and then holding the victims captive and physically assaulting them if they refuse to do so, according to Yonhap. South Korea has also decided to extend the travel ban for another six months on eight countries and six regions, citing the risk of terrorism and unstable security. The travel ban will be extended for Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen, Syria, Libya, Ukraine and Sudan, as well as parts of the Philippines, Russia, Belarus, Gaza, Myanmar and the border area between Armenia and Azerbaijan. tm_nyc 1 Quote
Members unicorn Posted January 16 Members Posted January 16 I definitely understand the banning to prevent citizens putting themselves in dangerous situations. They also ban their citizens from travel to Syria or Sudan. One has to consider how governments should respond to their citizens knowingly putting themselves in danger by traveling to places known to kidnap or wrongfully detain citizens in order to try to shake out money and/or other concessions. I shake my head sometimes as I watch videos from Drew Goldberg/Binsky, who put himself in danger multiple times going to hostile countries such as Iran, North Korea, and Syria in his (ultimately successful) goal of traveling to every country on the planet. (I will confess that I find the videos entertaining, albeit cringe-worthy). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drew_Binsky#:~:text=Drew Goldberg (born May 24,and other social media accounts. My idea on how to deal with hostile countries would be not so much a total ban, but rather to require anyone who wishes to travel to hostile countries to sign and submit a government form which states something on the lines of "The country to which I intend to travel is known to wrongfully detain our citizens with the goal of gaining money and/or political concessions. I understand that my government strongly recommends against traveling to this country. I further understand that if I'm wrongfully detained in this country, that my government will not negotiate or assist me in any way in an attempt to secure my release, and will prosecute anyone who tries to do so." Quote
vinapu Posted February 15 Posted February 15 On 1/16/2024 at 8:55 AM, unicorn said: who put himself in danger multiple times going to hostile countries such as Iran, North Korea, and Syria fact that country is considered hostile by government , media or even wide public doesn't mean is dangerous to travel to. Very little danger awaits American travelling to Iran , Cuba or North Korea as long as they behave and stay away from political and religious matter as all guests everywhere should. Flying bombs, excessive criminal activity and shark infested waters are what makes places dangerous to travel to , not fact that they have spat with our government. Quote
Members unicorn Posted February 15 Members Posted February 15 47 minutes ago, vinapu said: ... Very little danger awaits American travelling to Iran , Cuba or North Korea... Few people will dispute you when it comes to Cuba, including the US State Department, which assigns Cuba a Level 2 caution only (due to petty crime), comparable to most western European countries (UK, France, Germany, Spain, etc.): https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/international-travel/International-Travel-Country-Information-Pages/Cuba.html Travel restrictions to US citizens for Cuba are due to politico-economic reasons, not issues of safety or wrongful detention. Iran, Russia, and North Korea, however, have put Americans in prison with the only goal of using them as bargaining chips to gain concessions from the US. I have seen documentaries regarding many US citizens who were tortured and imprisoned in Iran with no evidence of any wrongdoing. In other cases, the alleged wrongdoing is so inconsequential as to be absurd. Almost everyone has heard of the case of Brittney Griner, who was sentenced to 9 years of hard labor for possession of less than one gram of hash oil used for joint pain, although the typical sentence in Russia for such an offense is 2 weeks' imprisonment: https://sports.yahoo.com/hashish-oil-did-land-brittney-114041136.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAFB84SCkoRSJplumKLae6zaMJniMp2A8k-uaOidEkSjmo--g52tNQVixkmWDTHuvdcaNqwzVZsMtXz-lMA32rVEmGc_x27An2UFGwx76aRjo7duCQmNkdIIcdMpVPpwLTMCGlSDfwVGo9p0a7W9e9IvocFfNR6ry3Khq66S5ZqcA "...In Russia, cannabis is illegal. An individual possessing less than 6 grams of cannabis or two grams of hash can be fined or jailed for up to 15 days. Possessing any more than that becomes a more serious criminal offense...". To get her out, the US had to exchange her for Viktor Bout, a murderous illegal arms dealer. An unintentional slip-up led to an international horror story. As for North Korea, most people have heard the story of Otto Warmbier, who was literally tortured to death (murdered) for allegedly trying to steal a poster worth a few dollars at most. Here are the stories of some Americans wrongfully detained in Iran (including one who was there to support environmental efforts in Iran): Travel to countries which wrongfully detain US citizens should be allowed only if the citizens sign acknowledgement/release forms which state: (1) They are aware the country wrongfully detains citizens, and therefore travel to that country is strongly discouraged; and (2) In the event of wrongful detention, the US government will not negotiate a release, and will prosecute anyone who attempts to pay any sort of a ransom to secure release. I would blame any US citizen who attempts to travel to Russia, Iran, or North Korea, because they intentionally imperil themselves and their country. This is why a favor forcing any citizen who travels to such countries to acknowledge the danger and release their country from any peril they incur. vinapu and Marc in Calif 2 Quote
vinapu Posted February 15 Posted February 15 you telling us at times it good not to be an American, do you? Quote
Marc in Calif Posted February 15 Posted February 15 15 minutes ago, vinapu said: you telling us at times it good not to be an American, do you? Unicorn is not saying that at all! 😘 Quote
Members unicorn Posted February 16 Members Posted February 16 58 minutes ago, vinapu said: you telling us at times it good not to be an American, do you? I would not travel to Russia, North Korea, or Iran at this time, for sure, but it's silly to say it's not good to be American. There are also plenty of countries to which I wouldn't travel due to being gay, for instance (Uganda, Saudi Arabia). There are plenty of other lovely countries to explore. I'm not one of those people who obsesses with traveling to every country on the planet. I will focus on visiting every country in Europe, however. So far, I've yet to visit Andorra, Belarus, Bosnia, Malta, and Moldova. Only Belarus might get a little tricky, though, so far, I've not heard of them holding US citizens hostage. Quote
Members unicorn Posted February 16 Members Posted February 16 This link take one to the US State Department's map of which countries are no-nos: https://travelmaps.state.gov/TSGMap/?extent=17.826323538,49.296560829,40.848243629,56.555024853 Basically, don't go to Russia, Belarus, Ukraine, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Yemen, Burma, Venezuela, Mali, Burkina Faso, Sudan, South Sudan, Somalia, Central African Empire (yes, I know it's Republic now), parts of Mexico, and North Korea. I don't long to go to those places, although it would be nice to be able to visit Iran one of these days. Quote
vinapu Posted February 16 Posted February 16 4 hours ago, unicorn said: Only Belarus might get a little tricky, though, so far, I've not heard of them holding US citizens hostage. I found it strange that Belarus is on 'do not travel list " and Israel with real war there is only on ' exercise caution " Quote
vinapu Posted February 16 Posted February 16 3 hours ago, unicorn said: Central African Empire (yes, I know it's Republic now) Bokassa would be happy you still remember him Quote
reader Posted February 16 Author Posted February 16 I would have no qualms about traveling to Cuba. However, any US citizen (or citizens of countries with sanctions on Iran or North Korea) are subjecting themselves to being arrested on false charges and becoming hostages of government. The Otto Warmbier incident cited above is among the most tragic examples. vinapu 1 Quote
caeron Posted February 16 Posted February 16 Indeed. Both Iran and North Korea have locked up innocent tourists. If they think they might need currency for an exchange, you might become it. I wouldn't go to either of these countries. unicorn and reader 2 Quote
Members unicorn Posted February 16 Members Posted February 16 2 hours ago, vinapu said: Bokassa would be happy you still remember him I'm shocked you didn't use his official title! 😄 It's "His Imperial Majesty Bokassa the First, Apostle of Peace and Servant of Jesus Christ, Emperor and Marshal of Central Africa." According to Wikipedia, "On 29 February 1988, Kolingba demonstrated his opposition to capital punishment by voiding the death penalty against Bokassa and commuted his sentence to life in prison in solitary confinement, and the following year reduced the sentence to twenty years. With the return of democracy to the CAR in 1993, Kolingba declared a general amnesty for all prisoners as one of his final acts as president, and Bokassa was released on 1 August 1993. Bokassa remained in the CAR for the rest of his life. In 1996, as his health declined, he proclaimed himself the Thirteenth Apostle and claimed to have secret meetings with the Pope John Paul II. Bokassa died of a heart attack on 3 November 1996 at his home in Bangui at the age of 75. He had seventeen wives, one of whom was Marie-Reine Hassen, and a reported fifty children, including Jean-Serge Bokassa, Jean-Bédel Bokassa Jr. and Kiki Bokassal." "...Tenacious rumors that Bokassa occasionally consumed human flesh were substantiated by several testimonies during his eventual trial, including the statement of his former chef that he had repeatedly cooked the flesh of human carcasses stored in the palace's walk-in freezers for Bokassa's table. At his coronation he is said to have told the French ambassador that he had unknowingly eaten human meat. This did not affect Bokassa's criminal record, however, since the consumption of human remains is considered a misdemeanor under CAR law and all previously committed misdemeanors had been forgiven by a general amnesty declared in 1981...". Well, at least cannibalism was nominally illegal, unlike in Russia, where it's celebrated. 😉 Quote
Members unicorn Posted February 16 Members Posted February 16 2 hours ago, vinapu said: I found it strange that Belarus is on 'do not travel list " and Israel with real war there is only on ' exercise caution " Sorry, but that's factually incorrect. Israel is not in the "exercise increased caution" list (level 2), but rather on the "reconsider travel" list (level 3). I admit that I have visited countries listed in level 3 (Egypt recently), but have not and probably will not ever visit countries in the "Do not travel" list (level 4). The country I'm most tempted by is Burma, but I'll wait until things calm down there. Most of Southeast Asia is Level 1, except for the Golden Triangle region. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/israel-west-bank-and-gaza-travel-advisory.html 10tazione and vinapu 1 1 Quote
vinapu Posted February 16 Posted February 16 thank you for correcting me but still I wonder all the same : Israel 'reconsider travel" , Belarus "do not travel". I understand that Belarus may be not considered as predictable as Israel but travel there as in any place, in this case small place with war going on brings real , not Department of the State's cooked danger Quote
vinapu Posted February 16 Posted February 16 5 hours ago, unicorn said: I'm shocked you didn't use his official title! I'm proletarian, I don't like tittles unicorn 1 Quote
Members unicorn Posted February 16 Members Posted February 16 9 hours ago, vinapu said: thank you for correcting me but still I wonder all the same : Israel 'reconsider travel" , Belarus "do not travel". I understand that Belarus may be not considered as predictable as Israel but travel there as in any place, in this case small place with war going on brings real , not Department of the State's cooked danger The differences lie in the depth of the danger, and the hostility of the dictatorial government proper to the US. Belarus's Lukashenko could decide at any time to take a US citizen hostage on some ridiculous pretext (i.e. Griner's possession of less than a gram of cannabis oil), and put this person in prison, perhaps with hard labor, while trying to get concessions from the US government. While there are dangers from hostile countries around Israel, at least the Israeli government is not hostile to the US. Also, there are ways to minimize the dangers in Israel. The massacre at the Re-im Music Festival was horrific, atrocious, and completely inexcusable. That being said, you would never find or have found me at a music festival bordering the Gaza strip under any circumstances, much less on the 50th Anniversary of the Yom Kippur War. Strangely, when I was in Egypt last month, I was surprised to learn than October 6th has long been considered a holiday in Egypt. I suspect most Egyptians don't even know that they lost that war (which they started). https://www.britannica.com/topic/Armed-Forces-Day-Egyptian-holiday "Armed Forces Day, public holiday observed in Egypt on October 6, celebrating the day in 1973 when combined Egyptian and Syrian military forces launched a surprise attack on Israel and crossed into the Sinai Peninsula, which marked the beginning of the October (Yom Kippur) War." So the dangers of Israel are real, though somewhat manageable. I agree that this isn't the best time to visit Israel. I've only traveled to Level 3 countries rarely (maybe 2 or 3 times in my life). I've never traveled to a Level 4 country, though. I'm not sure if I ever will, even if it means that there will be one country in Europe I'll have never visited. Who knows when Lukashenko will die (or be killed). Quote
vinapu Posted February 17 Posted February 17 47 minutes ago, unicorn said: Who knows when Lukashenko will die (or be killed). that will not necessarily be good news as often replacing one autocrat or dictator with another one results in more mayhem. Generally speaking we should remember that for tourists brutal military dictatorship is safest place to travel as everybody is under the boot, crooks too. Unfortunately Americans may feel as exempted from this rule in some places due to bargaining chip danger mentioned above Quote
10tazione Posted February 23 Posted February 23 On 2/17/2024 at 8:08 AM, vinapu said: Generally speaking we should remember that for tourists brutal military dictatorship is safest place to travel I recently learned that Davao is considered the safest city in the Philippines by locals, because it is Dutertes city, while embassies generalize and consider whole Mindanao island as unsafe. A point not to forget with travel warnings is that travel insurance companies tend to exclude those areas from coverage. vinapu 1 Quote
