94 journalists killed in 2023, says IFJ, 68 of them were killed in Gaza.

[Moses]

The war in Gaza has been more deadly for journalists than any single conflict since the IFJ began recording journalists killed in the line of duty in 1990. The IFJ has recorded 68 journalists killed since the Hamas attack on 7 October. “This year, 72% of journalists killed worldwide have been killed in the Gaza conflict,” the Federation records. 

Sixty-one Palestinian journalists were killed in the Gaza strip. Four Israeli journalists were killed in the first hours of the Hamas attack on 7 October: two during the Supernova music festival and two were murdered in the kibbutzes of Nahal Oz and Kfar Aza. Three Lebanese journalists were killed on 13 October and 21 November in Israeli shootings while filming a report on the border between the two countries.

Elsewhere in the Middle East, the IFJ counts 3 media workers killed in Syria.

In Europe, Ukraine remains a dangerous country for journalists. This year 3 journalists and media workers - Ukrainian (1), Russian (1)  and French (1) - have been killed in the Ukrainian war.

https://www.ifj.org/media-centre/news/detail/category/press-releases/article/ninety-four-journalists-killed-in-2023-says-ifj

[Marc in Calif]

And because I'm completely free to comment and compare on any topic/thread on this website, here's another report about journalists killed in war.

17 journalists and media workers have been killed in Ukraine since the Russian Invasion in February 2022, says the Committee to Protect Journalists

https://cpj.org/data/killed/?status=Killed&motiveConfirmed[]=Confirmed&motiveUnconfirmed[]=Unconfirmed&type[]=Journalist&type[]=Media Worker&cc_fips[]=UP&start_year=2022&end_year=2023&group_by=year

Here are just a few of them:

Yevhenii Bal, a 78-year-old writer and journalist, died on April 2, 2022, after three days of severe beatings by Russian forces, according to media reports,  a statement by the Ukrainian National Union of Journalists (NUJU) and Bal’s friend Pavlo Kusch, who communicated with CPJ via messaging app and who announced Bal’s death on April 8 in a Facebook post.

Oksana Haidar, a 54-year-old Ukrainian journalist and blogger better known under the pseudonym “Ruda Pani,” was killed on or around March 11, 2022, by Russian artillery shelling of the village of Shevchenkove, northeast of the Ukrainian capital Kyiv.

Vira Hyrych, a journalist for the U.S. Congress-funded Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty’s Ukrainian service, was killed... on April 28, 2022, when Russian forces shelled a residential apartment building in the Shevchenko district of Kyiv, where Hyrych lived. The attack killed Hyrych and injured at least four people.

[Moses]

6 minutes ago, Marc in Calif said:

17 journalists

So, in total 20 in 2 years in Ukraine compare to 68 in 2 months in Gaza, correct?

[Marc in Calif]

Yes. I was correct.

Russians beat and tortured to death an elderly Ukrainian journalist.

Don't you believe it? That's sad. 

[Marc in Calif]

And a very Happy Hanukkah to you and your people, Moses! 

[Moses]

10 minutes ago, Marc in Calif said:

That's sad

You are correct - deaths of 68 journalists in Gaza is sad fact.

This year, 72% of journalists killed worldwide have been killed in the Gaza conflict

[Marc in Calif]

21 minutes ago, Moses said:

You are correct - deaths of 68 journalists in Gaza is sad fact.

This year, 72% of journalists killed worldwide have been killed in the Gaza conflict

That's because Hamas was crazy enough to attack a state that has received billions of dollars from the United States. 

It's similar to Russia being crazy enough to attack a state that wasn't afraid to fight back and that had allies that would help.

[unicorn]

5 hours ago, Moses said:

...68 journalists killed since the Hamas attack on 7 October...

Is that more or less than the number of journalists Putin has murdered?

[Moses]

2 hours ago, Marc in Calif said:

That's because Hamas was crazy enough

So, you insist they are victims of Hamas?

[Marc in Calif]

2 hours ago, Moses said:

So, you insist they are victims of Hamas?

I said nothing of the sort, did I? 

Where did you learn how to read English?

[Moses]

5 hours ago, Marc in Calif said:

Where did you learn how to read English?

Immediately after you learn to read Russian and discover that Western propaganda does not always tell you the truth

[forky123]

30 minutes ago, Moses said:

Immediately after you learn to read Russian and discover that Western propaganda does not always tell you the truth

Why on earth would anyone need to learn Russian to understand that Western governments and media don't always tell the truth? The difference is that we can shout loud and clear that they are lying without defenestration, poisoning, our plane blowing up or being imprisoned for decades under false charges. 

[Marc in Calif]

11 hours ago, forky123 said:

Why on earth would anyone need to learn Russian to understand that Western governments and media don't always tell the truth? The difference is that we can shout loud and clear that they are lying without defenestration, poisoning, our plane blowing up or being imprisoned for decades under false charges. 

I think he will first need to look up the definition of defenestration. 🤡

It's probably a banned word in English -- and even in Russian -- over there in Putin's Dictatorship. 

[stevenkesslar]

On 12/9/2023 at 1:01 PM, Marc in Calif said:

That's because Hamas was crazy enough to attack a state that has received billions of dollars from the United States. 

It's similar to Russia being crazy enough to attack a state that wasn't afraid to fight back and that had allies that would help.

There's some other relevant comparisons.

The IDF is clearly in a position to say this.  If you attack us, we will smear the streets with the blood of your dead.  And they are doing it.  Death here, death there, death everywhere.  We all agree it's sad.  Add lots of dead journalists, which is the point @Moses wants to make.  He's correct. It's a fact.  Israel is in a position to retaliate, defend, or whatever you want to call it.  And they are doing it.

Russia is clearly in a position to say this.  We can attack you, Ukraine.  And we will smear the streets with the blood of your dead.  Dead soldiers, dead citizens, dead journalists.  Death, death, death.  Russia will bring you death.  Putin will bring you death.  You may hate us for eternity, and hope Putin burns in hell.  But guess what?  We could fucking care less.  We can and will kill 500,000 of your soldiers.  We don't care.  Russia and Putin bring you death and misery.  It's just that simple.

Is there any question why Ukrainians hate Russians, and why Israel is pretty much united that Hamas sucks?  That doesn't mean Putin and Hamas will just go away.  Any successful plan has to start with the reality that Putin and Hamas can't simply be wiped out, unless we maybe want to blow up the whole planet.  But they ARE the problem.

Putin and Hamas have this in common.  They like death.  They want to kill.  They are sadistic butchers.  It is who they are.  It is what they do.  It is how they get and keep power.  All you have to do is read where people are dying, including journalists.  You are correct, @Moses.   Gaza and Ukraine are bloodbaths.  Why?  Because sadistic butchers like Hamas and Putin made it that way.

I despise Netanyahu and I think the IDF is going way too far.  I think Putin calculated correctly that he could at the very least weaken Ukraine and create a stalemate.  But none of that changes the fact that Hamas and Putin started the death.  Certain facts are plain and simple.  Hamas is a terrorist organization.  Putin is a sadistic butcher.  Do you agree, @Moses?  If you want to understand why we have so many dead journalists, look to the butchers and sadists and terrorists who started it first.

In my country, I could and did say George W. Bush sucks and this whole idea of attacking Iraq is insane.  Granted, we did it anyway.  I won't defend it, and I am not proud of it.  Now most Americans and most of the world agree with me.  My college mentor was a liberal Jewish professor who somehow ended up being a US Senator who was the only Democrat running for re-election in 2002 to oppose the Iraq War.  There are conspiracy theorists who actually believe that got him killed in a small plane crash. I don't believe that.  Here's my point.  I can say my leader sucks and is wrong.  Wellstone could vote against that war, and say it was a horrible mistake. 

In Russia, if you say these things, or oppose Putin, you are sent to the front.  If you oppose the war, you become fertilizer or dog food in Ukraine.  I'm not sure if you agree with Putin.  Or if you just don't want to be sent to the front.  Of course, I don't think Putin does that to journalists who disagree with him.  He just jails them, or kills them.  We settled that a long time ago.

The murder that killed free media in Russia.

Why aren't you ashamed of living in a failing country run by a sadistic butcher, @Moses?  You should be.

By the way, did you notice that Xi, not Putin, went to San Francisco and was given accolades by Apple?  Have you noticed how China, not Russia, is having all-of-government meetings, starting with Biden and Xi, to figure out how to put out these fires, rather than starting them?  Have you noticed that the Chinese economy came out of COVID a mess, and the US came out of COVID with the strongest economy in the world? 

What I am trying to say politely, @Moses, is that Xi is playing your sadistic butcher of a leader, just like your sadistic butcher of a leader played his sadistic butcher of a chef, who is now dead.  Boo hoo!  You get my point, right?  None of this changes the fact that Russia is a failing economy that engineers who have the skills to work for Apple are fleeing in droves.  Because they don't want to end up being a journalist in Russia.  Or fertilizer in Ukraine.

 

 

[Moses]

On 12/11/2023 at 9:25 PM, stevenkesslar said:

If you want to understand why we have so many dead journalists, look to the butchers and sadists and terrorists who started it first.

Long-long manipulations, But I have one question after your long post: who murdered 68 journalists? "Butchers and sadists" or holy Israeli soldiers who do not want to leave witnesses alive??

Israel dropped more bombs on Gaza in 6 days than the US-led coalition dropped in any month fighting ISIS
https://www.businessinsider.com/israel-palestine-confilct-bombing-gaza-strip-hamas-united-states-isis-2023-10

There are rumors, what Israel already dropped more bombs on Gaza in 2 months than Russia dropped on Ukraine in 2 years.

[stevenkesslar]

5 hours ago, Moses said:

Long-long manipulations, But I have one question after your long post: who murdered 68 journalists? "Butchers and sadists" or holy Israeli soldiers who do not want to leave witnesses alive??

Silly boy.  That's not a question.  That's denial.

Russia: Thirteen Murders, No Justice

I have a question.  Who murdered Igor Domnikov? Surely not Murderous Vlad, right? 

I have another question.    Who murdered  Sergey Novikov?  Murderous Vlad wouldn't do it, would he?

I have another question.    Who murdered  Iskandar Khatloni?  Not Murderous Vlad. He's a sweetheart.

I have another question.    Who murdered Sergey Ivanov?  I'm sure Murderous Vlad didn't do it.

I have another question.    Who murdered  Adam Tepsurgayev?  Murderous Vlad loves journalists as much as he loves killing children in Chechnya.

I have another question.    Who murdered  Eduard Markevich?  Not my honey Murderous Vlad!

I have another question.    Who murdered Natalya Skryl?   Oh, come on.  Murderous Vlad has killed way more innocent Ukrainian woman.  Who cares, really?

I have another question.    Who murdered  Valery Ivanov?   Murderous Vlad wouldn't shoot a Russian in the head 8 times.  He needs those bullets to kill Ukrainians.

I have another question.    Who murdered  Aleksei Sidorov?  Could be Murderous Vlad.  Killing with an ice pick saves bullets for the heads of Ukrainian soldiers.

I have another question.    Who murdered   Dmitry Shvets?  Murderous Vlad?  Nah!  He's a dream come true.  For butchers.

I have another question.    Who murdered  Paul Klebnikov?   Murderous Vlad wouldn't do it.  It was probably Vlad's kleptocrat friends who didn't like being exposed.

I have another question.    Who murdered  Magomedzagid Varisov?  Murderous Vlad sure is a nightmare for journalists, isn't he?

Last question.    Who murdered Anna Politkovskaya?  Murderous Vlad?  Like I give a shit!

Let's face facts.  Murderous Vlad wiped out about 25,000 Ukrainians in Mariupol alone.  Many of them women and children.  The 50 bullets in the head or chest of the journalists that opposed Murderous Vlad in his early days ain't shit.  And Murderous Vlad will do the same to lots more towns and cities in Ukraine, and lots more women and children if he needs to.

It is who Murderous Vlad is.

It is what Murderous Vlad does.

Again, I despise Netayahu.  But he is a saint compared to Murderous Vlad.  The number of Palestinian children Netanyahu has killed in his reign of terror is like one week's work for the sadist and butcher who runs your country, @Moses.

[Moses]

3 hours ago, stevenkesslar said:

I have another question

I know, it is in national culture to answer on question with another question, but what you will do with fact what in you list are 13 persons who you think were murdered in Russia by political reason.

And we discuss now 13 persons in 23 years and compare with 68 persons killed in 2 months.

And let me use the same propagandistic method like you use - bold, underline and size

72% of journalists killed worldwide have been killed in the Gaza conflict 

[Moses]

3 hours ago, stevenkesslar said:

Let's face facts.  Murderous Vlad wiped out about 25,000 Ukrainians in Mariupol alone.  Many of them women and children.

Why you didn't write 1,000,000,000?

Let's face. As per report of UN HR commissioner there were killed in total 9,511 persons in Ukraine within civilians in 19 months on territory 600,000 sq km

https://www.ohchr.org/en/news/2023/08/ukraine-civilian-casualty-update-28-august-2023

[Marc in Calif]

19 hours ago, stevenkesslar said:

Silly boy.  That's not a question.  That's denial.

The silly boy was absent from these forums for several days.

Could it have been detention? Running a sex tourism website? 🤓

[stevenkesslar]

54 minutes ago, Marc in Calif said:

The silly boy was absent from these forums for several days.

Could it have been detention? Running a sex tourism website? 🤓

I wish.   

My nephew and I exchange long and boring emails that would bore most people here to tears. This week they have been about China, small modular nuclear reactors, whether China is smarter because Xi Whiz can just push really expensive reactors through, or whether the US is smarter because we figured out small nuclear reactors are, once again, NOT too cheap to meter.  It's more fun than posting here, because I am not told I am boring and verbose.  My nephew is boring and verbose, too.  And as pen pals we actually learn shit from each other.

Oh, and we email lots and  lots about stocks.  Lots of charts and graphs.  Check out SOXL. He's up something like quadruple since he bought it last Fall.  I'm up about 50 % just this month.  So we are figuring out how to make money on stocks.  It's not as fun as sex tourism.  But it's legal.  I can't make money being verbose and boring here.

Meanwhile, while I'm being verbose and boring, Murderous Vlad is doing his thing.  Killing women and children.  And killing women and children. And killing women and children.  It is who Murderous Vlad is.  It is what Murderous Vlad does.  Don't you ever feel ashamed of all the killing of women and children, @Moses?

[stevenkesslar]

21 hours ago, stevenkesslar said:

Let's face facts.  Murderous Vlad wiped out about 25,000 Ukrainians in Mariupol alone.

 

17 hours ago, Moses said:

Let's face. As per report of UN HR commissioner there were killed in total 9,511 persons in Ukraine within civilians in 19 months on territory 600,000 sq km

https://www.ohchr.org/en/news/2023/08/ukraine-civilian-casualty-update-28-august-2023

Silly @Moses.  Like Murderous Vlad, you are not much into facts.

Here's what the report you cited said,

Quote

OHCHR believes that the actual figures are considerably higher, as the receipt of information from some locations where intense hostilities have been going on has been delayed and many reports are still pending corroboration. This concerns, for example, Mariupol (Donetsk region), Lysychansk, Popasna, and Sievierodonetsk (Luhansk region), where there are allegations of numerous civilian casualties.

I assume those are confirmed deaths.  Here's the thing.  When Murderous Vlad drops big bombs on Ukrainians kids and they end up being gobs of rotting flesh, it is harder to identify them.  Could that be why Ukrainians now hate Russians and want Murderous Vlad to burn in hell forever?  

In terms of 25,000 in Mariupol, here is where I got the number from:

This Is the World If Ukraine Loses

Quote

If Ukraine cannot push Russia back, there will not be a stable stalemate. Russia will throw all it has into “conquering” Ukraine. It will obliterate cities completely, as demonstrated by its conquest of Mariupol, where Russia is estimated to have killed 25,000 people and destroyed 90 percent of residential buildings. That is the Russian way of war. Russia’s army will imprison, torture or kill anyone who refuses to “belong” to Russia. Remember the Bucha massacre? Bucha had 37,000 inhabitants, compared to Ukraine’s 44 million. As Russia advances, 5, 10, 100 or more Buchas may occur

Great essay written by a Ukrainian.  He is right.  If Murderous Vlad is allowed to win, middle class America is fucked.  We'll have a murderous authoritarian gaining in stature.

And Ukrainians will be even more fucked.   Murderous Vlad will just go on killing women and children.  It is who he is.  It is what he does.

This is why Biden and McConnell and Schumer are staying late and working hard.  Republicans do want Murderous Vlad to win.  Democrats do not want Murderous Vlad to win.  My quote of the month goes to Senator Michael Bennett:

Quote

“There is a reason to stick around: The Ukrainian people have been dying in the service of democracy for the last two years,” said Sen. Michael Bennet (D-Colo.).

 

[Marc in Calif]

2 minutes ago, stevenkesslar said:

Don't you ever feel ashamed of all the killing of women and children, @Moses?

Nope! @Moses cares ONLY about dead people in Gaza. Nowhere else. 

However, I'm sure he never thought about Gaza before October 7. Now it empowers everything he writes.

Isn't it strange what Putiphilia combined with anti-Semitism does to people?  

[Marc in Calif]

26 minutes ago, stevenkesslar said:

... or whether the US is smarter because we figured out small nuclear reactors are, once again, NOT too cheap to meter. 

Ah, thanks for reminding me of the always astute Harry Shearer! I'm with him every Sunday. 

And I fondly remember Le Show way back to the 1980s on local KCRW.  

[Moses]

7 hours ago, stevenkesslar said:

In terms of 25,000 in Mariupol, here is where I got the number from:

I think, Zelenskiy counts that number not enough big: tonight Mariupol has been attacked by British missiles Storm Shadow. 

[Moses]

Let's talk about dual morale.

Russia occupies Ukraine - that is bad.
Israel occupies Gaza already many years - that is good.