Gay Thai Chat Rooms and Asian Travel Web Sites

[PeterRS]

Was it 10 years ago? Longer? There was certainly a time when the internet had a considerable number of gay websites focusing primarily on Thailand. Many were informative, some more political in content, some just bitch boards - some providing both interest and amusement.

This Board now has a much wider geographical range, but still with quite a number of separate threads on Thailand and others on Asia. To my knowledge there are only two left concentrating on Thailand - sawatdee network and gaybuttonthai. Sawatdee has gone through several incarnations over the years but now seems also to be slipping out of most readers' daily posting. In the last 14 days, it has had no posts for 8 of them. During October there were 16 days with no posts. Yet it is certainly read for, as I write at 11:00 am on Sunday, there are 35 members online and 218 guests. That's considerably more than this site which has 8 members and 200 guests at the same time! Gaybuttonthai is much more concentrated on Pattaya and has far fewer registered members. Now there are 2 online, yet still 121 guests. 11:00 am on a Sunday morning may not be the idea time for checking websites, but there is clearly a readership for all three sites. The key question, I guess, is how likely is it they will all last?

Some years ago on his own website, the poster @ChristianPFC compiled a list of 'dead' sites. Among these were gaylilfeinthailand, gaytingtong, gaysexthailand, cruisinggaythailand, gaytouri, baht-stop and bahtstop. Many were very short-lived. Others did not last after their owners died. Since then, yet others seem to continue as websites but often with very little new content. cruisingforsex-asia has been around for many years but its last post was made in May this year. That was a response to a question about Nature Boys raised on 6 November 2009! After 3 years with no activity during covid, activity has slowly picked up - but slow is the operative word! Only a handful of posts in 2023.

I raise this merely to ask for how long this and the other two sites can keep operating, the more so with advertising revenues minimal or even non-existent?

I wonder if the same is true to a certain extent of gay internet sites, especially those related to gay travel. In theory they should be mushrooming. Are they? Rather like the maps on the free gay magazines that were common in most gay venues in Thailand 10-20 years ago, I guess the problem is how you keep information up to date. Quite a few years ago I remember virtually trashing one such site which clearly had just made-up its supposed travel information about Thailand. The site died soon after.

A couple of years or so ago I wrote to the owner of utopia-asia to ask why he did not include arguably the two most popular saunas in Asia in his listings - Hutong in Hong Kong and Soi13in in Taipei. He wrote back that neither had replied to questions he had sent! They are still excluded! Frankly, that is ridiculous! Every other website lists these saunas. It really makes me question what other gay venues utopia-asia deliberately omits because they pissed off the owner.

gaytravel.com has been running for more than 20 years. Yet of its travel destinations, the only one in Asia is Phuket! Click on Phuket and it's just one long advertisement for the Sri Panwa luxury hotel! Total waste of time!

At least nomadicboys.com has both Thailand and Taiwan as its Asian destinations. The suggestions for both cities are pretty much up to date with a few notable omissions. Worst in both are its hotel recomendations. The top two in Bangkok are the W Hotel and the Mandarin-Oriental! Soon after come the So-Sofitel, the Banyan Tree, Le Meridien, the Peninsula and the St. Regis. To be fair, it also lists the Tarntawan. But why such a cluster of just expensive hotels? I

In Taipei it places the Chinese-styled Grand Hotel at the top of its list. Why, considering it is so far from the gay areas and not close to public transport? Beats me. Advertising cash, I expect! 

thegaypassport.com seems to have upped its game since I last looked 2 or 3 years ago. It at least has better information on a few saunas, but yet again its hotels are almost all top of the range. Since it offers diferent prices from agoda, expedia and hotels.com, I doubt if they get a commission, but could be wrong. Why such expensive hotels are listed when there are plenty of middle and lower priced hotels as members here have noted, again beats me! 

I expect servers here in Thailand only get a few of the total number of travel sites. Does anyone actually use them, I sometimes wonder? Are there better ones?

[reader]

I’ve come across some Chinese language sites that frequently post about Bangkok. Once translated some of the stuff. Not surprisingly, they seemed to be discussing same stuff we do.

[PeterRS]

I'm sure there are sites in most countries. I know of ones in Taipei, Hong Kong and Singapore. The difference seems to be that the average ages of correspondents seems to be much younger than those in Thailand. No doubt a result of there being more retirees and expats here.

[Boy69]

I guess the simple explanation is dramatic decline of Western gays coming to Thailand for sex cruise is the main explanation to the fading gay sites focusing in Thailand alongside the declining of gay zones and venues. There are many reasons for that the main ones I can think of :

The Western world became much more gay friendly no need to travel to the other side of the world to fulfill your gay desires. 

Thailand become much more expensive,  it's not so attractive as it used to be, other parts in the world are competitive like South America. 

Thai immigration policy become much more restricted that makes frequent or longer traveling  and living Thailand as expats more difficult. 

The younger gay generation is different they tend to behave like regular tourists, they don't limiting themselves to gay exclusive zones,venues and hotels and using apps if they are seeking for casual sex .

[reader]

1 hour ago, Boy69 said:

Thailand become much more expensive,  it's not so attractive as it used to be, other parts in the world are competitive like South America. 

Agree that it’s become more expensive to get here but so has every place else. As for being attractive, I don’t think there’s a place in Europe or North America to equal it in available guys or safety.

 

 

 

[reader]

1 hour ago, Boy69 said:

The Western world became much more gay friendly no need to travel to the other side of the world to fulfill your gay desires. 

It may have become more legally friendly and accepting, but as far as bars and other gay venues it has faded significantly. Those experiences can still be had in Thailand.

[vinapu]

11 hours ago, PeterRS said:

I expect servers here in Thailand only get a few of the total number of travel sites. Does anyone actually use them, I sometimes wonder? Are there better ones?

I , for one , visit,  daily this, Sawatdee & Gaybutton sites as well as ChristianPFC and ShamelessMac blogs. Contribute only here and occasionally on Christian's site. 

For my travel needs,  Kayak for flights and Agoda for hotels seem to be sufficient. I pay very little attention to reviews, be it airlines , hotels, restaurants or indeed boys , spas and bars posted on various sites unless I know reviewer either in person or from contributing here. 

Sometimes for fun I read reviews of hotels I'm familiar with , either in Thailand or somewhere else and find them all over the place.

Food reviews are even less useful as our tastes vary and too sweet for some may be bordering on bitter or sour for others and even if your chicken with cashew nuts may seem too salty, one I order 1 hour later may be just perfect in the same place

[fedssocr]

I only ever bother coming here anymore. And I think I had accounts on most of the ones listed.

My guess is that people don't read. And they don't necessarily feel like communicating via this medium. Given how many Youtube channels are devoted to travel if you are just looking for general travel info there are plenty of places to get that info. And probably other media like Instagram or Tiktok get lots of views.

The nomadicboys can only cover so much on their own since they can only visit so many hotels I wouldn't expect them to have comprehensive lists or complete venue information.

I know most people don't like travelgay.com but I've found it useful from time to time. Keeping venue listings up to date would be a big job probably without much reward. Which is part of why I really appreciate this place and the frequent posters who share information with all of us.

[PeterRS]

18 hours ago, Boy69 said:

it's not so attractive as it used to be, other parts in the world are competitive like South America.

The more I read about gay life and gay tourism in some parts of South America (and I have become enamoured with some like Colombia), the more I wish I had visited more often. Being based in Asia, it always seemed too far away. It would not have been expensive, though, with the amount of air miles I always had. 

[reader]

As PeterRS mentioned above, many non-registered readers are checking the three Thai gay websites. Their numbers  propel the actual readership well beyond the “signed in”. These visitors are primarily interested in scanning for information and have no desire to contribute. Consequently, the sites are more influential than the sum of their members represent. 

[Marc K]

Having just returned home from a few months in Pattaya, and yes it was a great visit!, I had kept asking myself "where are the young (gay) people?" Every time I visit Thailand, the crowd at (gay) spas, bars, beaches, hotels... seems to get older and older.

As for (gay) information, I remember the nostalgic days when I would rush to the bookstore to buy the just-released, shiny new edition of "Spartacus", or perhaps the Damon Guide -- the two most authoritative listings of gay venues and business. The book series "Men of Thailand" had the most curated and accurate information about the gay scene in Thailand. Of course those books ceased publication with the advent of the Internet era -- with utopia-asia and Dreaded Ned and... becoming the reference reading rooms of choice.

The point is that those media helped direct us to gay ghettos and places to meet gay friends and places for a little "hedonistic fun" as well, where we could feel comfortable and (mostly) at ease.

And as for these boards, I too have noticed the dramatic decline in new posts on sawatdee (and some other boards) and do wonder whether, when those of us of a certain age stop posting, there will be interest in continuing the boards -- thanks to the moderators for amazing work!

[Tomtravel]

5 hours ago, PeterRS said:

The more I read about gay life and gay tourism in some parts of South America (and I have become enamoured with some like Colombia), the more I wish I had visited more often. Being based in Asia, it always seemed too far away. It would not have been expensive, though, with the amount of air miles I always had. 

I must say that in my recent visit to Taiwan I really enjoyed the safe environment (daily- and nightlife, grindr dates, walk whereever you want, etc.). Being in Colombia is more like a tactical operative mission, which eventually got on my nerves. Taiwan is not particularly drinking, partying and drugs country, which I found refreshing and better for sex (i am not a fan of alcohol and nightclubs). From Europe, both places are the same flight time, so its „meat or fish“ choice, depends on the mood and style I want.

[PeterRS]

I'm delighted you enjoyed Taiwan. But just for the record, for those who like to drink and party, there is a lot going on. 

[scott456]

1 hour ago, Tomtravel said:

I must say that in my recent visit to Taiwan I really enjoyed the safe environment (daily- and nightlife, grindr dates, walk whereever you want, etc.). Being in Colombia is more like a tactical operative mission, which eventually got on my nerves. Taiwan is not particularly drinking, partying and drugs country, which I found refreshing and better for sex (i am not a fan of alcohol and nightclubs). From Europe, both places are the same flight time, so its „meat or fish“ choice, depends on the mood and style I want.

I am afraid that nightlife is quite lacking in Taiwan, and is quite comparable to Singapore where everybody works hard during the day and just go home and sleep in the evenings. Those few drinking bars in "red-brick" "rainbow" commercial area are tiny, pathetic serving a city population of more than 6 millions people (Taipei +New Taipei city).  Yes, it's safe,.... but sad.  Oh, did I mention you need to be a top because 90% of the gays in Taiwan are bottoms and eager to be fucked by whoever and whatever.  Perhaps this is exactly why you love it there.

[Marc in Calif]

1 minute ago, scott456 said:

I am afraid that nightlife is quite lacking in Taiwan

That's because nobody wants to show you where the nightlife is -- you would quickly ruin it!

[Tomtravel]

I compare Taipei gay nightlife with Berlin, Bogota, Medellin - Taiwanese guys said they dont have comparable.

[scott456]

3 minutes ago, Tomtravel said:

I compare Taipei gay nightlife with Berlin, Bogota, Medellin - Taiwanese guys said they dont have comparable.

Not sure how/why you made such comparisons, but I posted my opinion.  That's all.

[scott456]

2 hours ago, PeterRS said:

I'm delighted you enjoyed Taiwan. But just for the record, for those who like to drink and party, there is a lot going on. 

Do tell.  You mentioned a club (Candy?) in another thread, and I replied to that post with a YouTube link to show exactly how bad it is.

[PeterRS]

1 hour ago, scott456 said:

Do tell.  You mentioned a club (Candy?) in another thread, and I replied to that post with a YouTube link to show exactly how bad it is.

You have definitely got me confused with another poster. Unlike some of my friends, I am not a regular club goer in Taipei and certainly would never have mentioned Candy. I don't even know what it is! I have mentioned the small Commander D which I have been to and is quite close to The Red House. G*Star is much bigger and probably the most famous. I hear that Abrazo, Bacio, Werk and Bush at B1 are among others worth considering. @hojacat wrote a post about Hunt being virtually a club but it seems to have a different dress theme each night. You can find the post earler in this forum.

Best is to chat with some of the guys who go to the various Red House cafes for drinks or dinner. With the rainy season almost over, it will be packed at week-end nights and pretty busy the rest of the week. I go regularly for drinks to Sol Bar and the waiters there speak good English. They will know the latest 'in' places.

Since it seems you don't like Taipei/Taiwan why bother going? Others really like it. Some love it.

[macaroni21]

The internet has been a boon though it is true that sites and technologies change with head-spinning speed. But I certainly wouldn't want to go back to the Spartacus era.

Guide sites are very different animals from forum sites. I am not surprised that they struggle to stay relevant and up to date. It begins with user expectations - that what they see on a guide site should be authoritative, up-to-date, accurate and also comprehensive, covering all the available attractions of a place. It requires a lot of work to maintain a site to meet such standards. Look at the Guide section of this very site (gayguides.com). It has very little that's useful. The write-ups are undated, and for we know, the information about any bar or hotel may be 10 years old.

It gets worse when the guide site owners hope to make money or at least recover costs through advertising. There's even more work involved doing sales and keeping up with customer service. Then there's conflict of interest. Do you play down or omit an attraction just because they decline to advertise with you? If you omit, then you're failing the user who expects a comprehensive site. If you don't omit, then those who have hitherto paid to advertise may wonder why they should continue paying.

Forum sites depend on the wisdom/intelligence of the masses. It has its pros and cons, as no doubt we all see all too often on this very site (e.g. recent bust-up about antisemitism). But if there is enough participation and contributions, a forum site can go quite far in producing the comprehensive, up-to-date and accurate information that users desire. "Enough participation" means the "network effect" must operate, where users gravitate to a single site and leave the rest in the dust. The more the participation is centred on a single site, the more informative and comprehensive it gets. And, except for the heavylifting done by the moderators (thank you!) it's done free.

Seen in this light, the evolution of the online space is only following a natural path.

[Boy69]

8 hours ago, Tomtravel said:

Being in Colombia is more like a tactical operative mission, which eventually got on my nerves.

No doubt Thailand hook up is easier than Colombia but it's easy to find boys in the gay bars and nightclubs, In Bogota I saw plenty of familiar faces from Chaturbate in the weekends at gay clubs there it was very interesting to see the star models face to face 😉

[macaroni21]

On 11/12/2023 at 3:13 PM, PeterRS said:

I'm sure there are sites in most countries. I know of ones in Taipei, Hong Kong and Singapore. The difference seems to be that the average ages of correspondents seems to be much younger than those in Thailand. No doubt a result of there being more retirees and expats here.

We may not be comparing apples with apples. I think I know which sites you're referring to in Hong Kong and Singapore - those are gay-scene sites. This one is ... not quite. This site is an M2M-sex-buyers site.

Nor am I pessimistic about this site's future. Precisely because it is an M2M-sex-buyers site, it will age well. Given human nature, the trade will never disappear, though it may move from place to place and price point to price point. That's not to say that this site has not evolved nor continue to evolve. One day, even when there's AI and sex robots and businesses supplying them, I'll bet there will still be plenty of things to talk about.

When I first participated here, the Pattaya threads were as active as the Bangkok threads. Not any more. This seems to reflect, as others have pointed out, the decreasing number of Western retirees spending their golden years (and pensions) in Thailand, with Pattaya being the seaside town of choice. But I don't think the overall traffic to this site has reduced. It may even have grown, though I have no access to site statistics over the long term. So, if traffic has grown, it must mean that enough new members have come in over time too. 

This, in turn, is the other evolution that I can discern. More and more members are Asian. It's hard to put a number to it, but perhaps one in three or one in four of the active participants may either be Asian or expats living and working in the region. My guess is that there is a growing number of Singaporeans and Malaysians here, partly because these nationals (particularly the former) are comfortable in the English language. I thought there might be more Hongkongers for the same reason, but I don't see evidence of it.

I have noticed the increasing number of short trips reported on this site. It indicates they're from the region, and thus able to do a weekend or just a week's trip, rather than travel across multiple time zones to escape winter for three months, which used to be the dominant pattern in years past.

In time, as their disposable income rises, we may see more Filipinos and Indians on this site, for many of them too speak English.

[scott456]

7 hours ago, PeterRS said:

You have definitely got me confused with another poster. Unlike some of my friends, I am not a regular club goer in Taipei and certainly would never have mentioned Candy. I don't even know what it is! I have mentioned the small Commander D which I have been to and is quite close to The Red House. G*Star is much bigger and probably the most famous. I hear that Abrazo, Bacio, Werk and Bush at B1 are among others worth considering. @hojacat wrote a post about Hunt being virtually a club but it seems to have a different dress theme each night. You can find the post earler in this forum.

Best is to chat with some of the guys who go to the various Red House cafes for drinks or dinner. With the rainy season almost over, it will be packed at week-end nights and pretty busy the rest of the week. I go regularly for drinks to Sol Bar and the waiters there speak good English. They will know the latest 'in' places.

Since it seems you don't like Taipei/Taiwan why bother going? Others really like it. Some love it.

I repeat, the bars in Taipei are unbelievably small, most of them are in basement unusable for any other commercial purpose.  Comander D is in basement,  D1 is in basement, Hunt is less than half the size of a 7-11 store.  These are all drinking bar with bad sound system and bad music, they don't want people to dance, they don't want people to enjoy the music, they just want people to buy drinks.  G* is mostly for the girly bottom boys.  Again, with the population count and the average personal income level there, I can't believe this is all Taiwan has to offer.  It must be a cultural thing, in the same category as Singapore. But I am glad you are treated well being a rare and desirable "top" guy there.  I have visited Taiwan a couple times and I gave you my opinion here being a contributing member on this board, that's all.  

BTW, Bogota has the famous Teatron club complex of bars and shops, Teatro itself is a huge former theater with multiple dance rooms.  Berlin has many dance clubs that are huge warehouse size and are packed with people. 

[reader]

11 hours ago, macaroni21 said:

Forum sites depend on the wisdom/intelligence of the masses. It has its pros and cons, as no doubt we all see all too often on this very site (e.g. recent bust-up about antisemitism). 

I would have been disappointed if antisemitism was given a pass and there was no “bust-up.” Or if discrimination based on nationality was ignored.

What the numbers actually demonstrate is that some controversial topics draw a strong following, resulting in viewing numbers rivaling the traditional leaders: trip and venue reports.

[Marc in Calif]

9 hours ago, scott456 said:

I have visited Taiwan a couple times...

Well, that definitely makes you an expert on all nightlife in Taipei!  🤣 🤣 🤣