Will You Fly On A Russian Made Aircraft?

[PeterRS]

In the old days of the Soviet Union, flying on its home-made aircraft was sometimes a bit dodgy. My first was a Tupolev something on the Polish carrier LOT from LHR to Warsaw. Down by my lower legs there were bolts. During fight you could see the frost on them. Then there was the wide body Ilyshin Il-96 which I took from Athens to Moscow. Entry was by a door from the tarmac after which you climbed stairs to get into the passenger cabin. As I was on a multi-sector trip in business class, I walked up to the front. The flight attendant growled at me "Go back. You do not sit here!" I showed her my ticket whereupon she relented and let me take my seat. Lunch was the economy class meal brought to my seat, opened and sloshed on to a plate! 

Mind you, at least I made it to my destinations. Those on the supersonic Concordski (not the official name) were not always so lucky. The Tupolev Tu-144 had an unfortunate international debut at the Paris air show in 1973. Looking remarkably like the Anglo-French Concorde, it could not come out of a dive, broke up and spectacularly crashed.

As Concorde's Technical Flight Manager Brian Calvert said, "The rush to get Tu-144 airborne exacted a heavy penalty later." That was borne out when of the 102 commercial flights (only between Moscow and Alma-Ata) lasting 181 hours of flying time - just one flight a week, the Tu-144S suffered more than 226 failures, 80 of them in flight. For those who actually did fly on the aircraft, cabin noise was horrendously high at an average of 90-95db. Passengers two seats apart had to scream and shout to be heard! The passenger service was cancelled after 7 months.

But even when purchasing A-300s from Airbus in the 1990s, not all went well for the state airline Aeroflot. One flight from Moscow to Hong Kong crashed into a mountain range with the loss of all lives. The subsequent enquiry resulted in the alarming fact that the captain had let his children into the cockpit with his son and daughter sitting at the controls. The 12-year old boy sat in his cockpit seat. The boy then applied enough force on the stick to turn the plane and effectively turn off the autopilot. The plane went into a dive. The boy's body was later found still in the pilot's seat.  

Now, the airline has a good record, even though sanctions mean that obtaining parts and new aircraft are not possible and the number of usable aircraft is slowly dimishing. So Russia has built its own new 4-engine wide body long haul jet, the IL-96-400 M which has completed its first airborne trials. Designed to compete with the Boeing 777, it can carry up to 370 passengers. It is comparable to the “world’s best models due to the redundancy of the aircraft’s systems and its aerodynamic configuration.”according to the manufacturer. But why it should have adopted a gas guzzling 4-engine design beats me, although Russia presumably has no problem obtaining the fuel at cheap prices. 

Will I fly on it? Nope! No doubt many others will.

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/russia-test-flies-new-homegrown-widebody-passenger-airplane/index.html

[vinapu]

if price was right I would. In days of old I flew few times on  IL62 and can't recall any inconveniences. As far as I know I survived all those flights and each time came to my destination in one happy piece

[PeterRS]

12 minutes ago, vinapu said:

 In days of old I flew few times on  IL62 and can't recall any inconveniences. As far as I know I survived all those flights and each time came to my destination in one happy piece

Ah, so that's what's wrong with you!! (Apologies - just a silly joke which your post seemed to cry out for 🙏)

[TMax]

A long time back I had flown on old Russian jets in Vietnam but doubt I would now, granted that they were old and the maintenance could have been improved along with the comfort level but I still made it to my destinations. I would much rather stick with either Airbus or Boeing now

[Kostik]

3 hours ago, PeterRS said:

So Russia has built its own new 4-engine wide body long haul jet, the IL-96-400 M which has completed its first airborne trials. Designed to compete with the Boeing 777, it can carry up to 370 passengers.

This is not a plane for civil aviation. It was designed for special squad, emergencies, etc.

[reader]

From the Straits Times

Plane makes U-turn after taking off in London with missing window

Passengers on board an Airbus A321LR that departed a London airport in October were in for a noisier and colder flight than usual when two of the plane’s windows were found to be missing after take-off.

Titan Airways Flight AWC305Y had taken off from London’s Stansted Airport on Oct 4 and was headed to Orlando International Airport in the US state of Florida, according to a report from Britain’s Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB).

After take-off, the flight crew noticed excessive noise coming from the left side of the cabin’s rear. 

The report states that “several passengers recalled that after take-off, the aircraft cabin seemed noisier and colder than they were used to”.

A crew member walked to the area for a closer inspection and noticed that one of the seals around the window pane had become dislodged, with a noise that was described as being loud enough to damage your hearing. 

The plane was in the process of its take-off climb and had reached an altitude of 14,000 feet (4,200m) before it was levelled out to stop its ascent and its airspeed reduced so that one of the pilots could inspect the windows. 

After assessing the damage, the decision was made for the plane to make a U-turn and land back at Stansted after being in the air for 36 minutes. 

Upon further inspection of the aircraft’s exterior after landing, two window assemblies were found to be missing, while the inner pane and seal of a third window were dislodged. 

An aircraft window assembly consists of the inner and outer panes and the window seal.

According to the report, “there were no abnormal indications on the flight deck and the aircraft pressurisation system was operating normally... the cabin had remained pressurised normally throughout the flight”. 

[Keithambrose]

My first trip to Cuba was on an IL96, Cubana. Basic, but I got there. They joked that the toilet was a hole in the floor! They made excellent mojitos!

A friend of mine was travelling internally, when the flight engineer, removed the carpet, mid flight, removed some bolts and carried out repairs! They made it to their destination.

 

 

[Moses]

2 hours ago, Keithambrose said:

on an IL96

IL-96-300 is Putin's aircraft.

By the way: Japan makes carbon fibers for many aircraft manufacturers. Here is article (in Japanese, use Goggle translator). They declare Russian carbon wings for Russian MC-21 better than carbon wings of Boing 787 manufactured by Mitsubishi. 

https://jbpress.ismedia.jp/articles/-/46034 

[Mavica]

Just because something appears in

8 hours ago, vinapu said:

if price was right I would. In days of old I flew few times on  IL62 and can't recall any inconveniences. As far as I know I survived all those flights and each time came to my destination in one happy piece

I traveled to many sections of the old USSR in 1980, and one of my flights (Moscow > Paris) was on an IL62 or one of its variations.

[PeterRS]

9 hours ago, Kostik said:

This is not a plane for civil aviation. It was designed for special squad, emergencies, etc.

Not so, at least according to the CNN article. It's a new widebody aircraft that can replace western made passenger planes. This one seats up to 370 passengers in up to 3 passenger classes. Somehow I have difficulty believing First and Business class or Business Class and Premium Economy would be offered for emergencies! Besides, as the Russian Government's own official website stated on 1 November, "The prototype of the long-range widebody passenger aircraft Il-96-400M has successfully concluded its miaden flight."

Where did you get your information?

[Keithambrose]

12 hours ago, Moses said:

IL-96-300 is Putin's aircraft.

By the way: Japan makes carbon fibers for many aircraft manufacturers. Here is article (in Japanese, use Goggle translator). They declare Russian carbon wings for Russian MC-21 better than carbon wings of Boing 787 manufactured by Mitsubishi. 

https://jbpress.ismedia.jp/articles/-/46034 

Sorry, I meant an IL-62!

[Moses]

15 hours ago, PeterRS said:

Not so, at least according to the CNN article. It's a new widebody aircraft that can replace western made passenger planes. This one seats up to 370 passengers in up to 3 passenger classes. Somehow I have difficulty believing First and Business class or Business Class and Premium Economy would be offered for emergencies! Besides, as the Russian Government's own official website stated on 1 November, "The prototype of the long-range widebody passenger aircraft Il-96-400M has successfully concluded its miaden flight."

Where did you get your information?

Kostik is correct. It is wide spreaded misunderstanding because of translation. IL-96-400 is military/freight/firefighter/emergency service model with 4 engines. 

Passenger modifications are IL-96-300 with 4 engines and future IL-496 which will be based on IL-96-400 M but will have 2 engines.

[PeterRS]

58 minutes ago, Moses said:

Kostik is correct. It is wide spreaded misunderstanding because of translation. IL-96-400 is military/freight/firefighter/emergency service model with 4 engines. 

Passenger modifications are IL-96-300 with 4 engines and future IL-496 which will be based on IL-96-400 M but will have 2 engines.

Wrong! Seems some canot read. This is what Flight Global says -

Russia’s United Aircraft has carried out the maiden flight of its Ilyushin Il-96-400M, a stretched and modernised version of the four-engined airliner . . . The modernised jet has a fuselage stretched by 9.35m over the -300 and is able to accommodate up to 370 passengers, according to United Aircraft, although the company’s specifications list the -400M’s length as 63.9m, around 8.6m longer than the -300.

United Aircraft says the passenger cabin can be configured in various classes and includes a modern galleys and an in-flight entertainment system able to provide access to Internet and satellite communications.

New equipment fitted includes updated navigation and radio communications systems. “An improved navigation system will increase flight safety and simplify the landing approach process for crews,” says the manufacturer.

So the -400M is a considerably improved model of the older -300 model. It is also a new passenger version of the -400T cargo aricraft. Since United Aircraft is the state aerospace and defence corporation, I take their word over naysayers on this Board!

https://www.flightglobal.com/air-transport/stretched-ilyushin-il-96-400m-carries-out-maiden-flight/155638.article

[Moses]

52 minutes ago, PeterRS said:

I take their word over naysayers on this Board

Nope. Il 96 400 M is just base and temporarily designated. It will be IL-496. They even already made Wiki page for it https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ил-496

By the way: I hate to fly on Il-96 - 4 engines make flight too noisy, even more noisy than flight on Boing 747, I hate it too.

[TotallyOz]

No, I would not fly on one as I always use flights that connect to USA and through Delta or AA. I don't see them allowing these planes to be used until the invasion of Ukraine comes to an end. But, that also depends on if Putin's puppet gets elected (big possibility IMHO). In the mean time, I have even had a hard time getting flights through China right now and not sure if that is political or they have not bounced back yet.

[forky123]

44 minutes ago, TotallyOz said:

But, that also depends on if Putin's puppet gets elected

Which one? 

[TotallyOz]

24 minutes ago, forky123 said:

Which one? 

How many do you count that is going to be on the ticket?

[forky123]

4 minutes ago, TotallyOz said:

How many do you count that is going to be on the ticket?

There are an awful lot of people standing for elections in the US accepting Russian money. I take it you mean "Golden Shower Boy". 

[TotallyOz]

9 minutes ago, forky123 said:

There are an awful lot of people standing for elections in the US accepting Russian money. I take it you mean "Golden Shower Boy". 

Senators and congressmen take money from anyone.

IMHO, the only reason for me to vote is for President and to keep control of the Senate. Those are the ones that elect the SCOTUS and that is why I vote.

But, back on topic, I trust Russian aircraft as much as I trust a big Chinese aircraft.  Both have high ambitions but can't deliver the same quality as companies that have been around for ages and when I travel, I like to be safe and secure. BTW, nothing about either country as I have been to both many times but would need to see many tests with other people first.

[PeterRS]

2 hours ago, Moses said:

They even already made Wiki page for it https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ил-496

@Moses - you have quoted two sources: one is in Japanese and the other is in Russian. When you post sources backing up your claim in English, then I might just believe your comments on this airliner. I have seen far too many in English not to believe these English sources.

[PeterRS]

The fulll article from https://www.flightglobal.com/air-transport/stretched-ilyushin-il-96-400m-carries-out-maiden-flight/155638.article dated 2 November 2023

Stretched Ilyushin Il-96-400M carries out maiden flight

Russia’s United Aircraft [the Russian state-owned aircraft company] has carried out the maiden flight of its Ilyushin Il-96-400M, a stretched and modernised version of the four-engined airliner.

The Il-96-400M – rolled out in the aerospace firm’s corporate livery earlier this year – took off from Voronezh on 1 November for a 26min sortie.

United Aircraft says the flight was conducted to test stability and control of the jet, and the operability of powerplants and landing systems.

“The test programme was successful,” says the company, pointing out that much of the equipment for the aircraft has been supplied by domestic firms.

Five crew members were on board the -400M including two pilots, a navigator, engineer and test specialist.

United Aircraft says the jet, fitted with Aviadvigatel PS-90A1 engines, reached altitudes of 2,000m (6,600ft) and speeds of 210kt.

Russian trade and industry minister Denis Manturov says the aircraft retains the “high performance” of its Il-96-300 predecessor but features additional capabilities.

“In the future, the new [Il-96-400M] will allow us to develop and improve our competencies in creating widebody long-haul aircraft,” he adds.

The modernised jet has a fuselage stretched by 9.35m over the -300 and is able to accommodate up to 370 passengers, according to United Aircraft, although the company’s specifications list the -400M’s length as 63.9m, around 8.6m longer than the -300.

New equipment fitted includes updated navigation and radio communications systems. “An improved navigation system will increase flight safety and simplify the landing approach process for crews,” says the manufacturer.

It says the development will comply with the latest European requirements for navigation capability, particularly for operation over remote areas.

United Aircraft general director Yuri Slyusar says the -400M will give the company a long-haul widebody product to complement its current aircraft line-up, including the Yakovlev SJ-100 and MC-21-310, as well as the revived Tupolev Tu-214.

 

Slyusar says the aircraft types are capable of replacing foreign-built models on networks throughout Russia. The Russian government has adopted a strategic programme of import-substitution, to enhance domestic aerospace production and rely less on foreign suppliers – a particularly key issue following the imposition of international sanctions over the Ukrainian conflict.

United Aircraft says the passenger cabin can be configured in various classes and includes a modern galleys and an in-flight entertainment system able to provide access to Internet and satellite communications.

Aviation Week has the same story but most is under a firewall - 

https://aviationweek.com/air-transport/aircraft-propulsion/russias-uac-rolls-out-stretched-il-96-passenger-airliner

[Moses]

20 hours ago, PeterRS said:

- you have quoted two sources: one is in Japanese and the other is in Russian. When you post sources backing up your claim in English, then I might just believe your comments on this airliner. I have seen far too many in English not to believe these English sources.

I show first hand sources. For news about Japanese carbon I use Japanese source, for news about Russian aircraft I use Russian source. Everyone knows how to use translator from Google. 

[PeterRS]

3 hours ago, Moses said:

I show first hand sources. For news about Japanese carbon I use Japanese source, for news about Russian aircraft I use Russian source. Everyone knows how to use translator from Google. 

If someone posts a link and dos not take the trouble to help readers by translating it, I will not read it. I read the English language flight magazines and they are perfectly clear. Sorry but your posts are not.

PS: SInce posting I did check your Japanese site with google translate. On page 1 there is absolutey nothing  - nothing at all - about any Ilyushin aircraft, only American-made aircraft! If you want people to read more than page 1, they are protected and so you will have to do it and translate so we can read it!

PPS: SInce posting the commentbabout the Japanese site, I did look at your Russian site. And i am not in the slightest bit surprised at what it says, even though you seem to be. It states - 

Il-496 (working name Il-96-400M) is a promising Russian wide-body passenger aircraft 
for medium and long-haul airlines. Designed by the Design Bureau named after 
Ilyushin. As of November 2023, one test flight has been completed

So despite your inaccurate comments, absolutely everything I have written and quoted in my posts has been 100% true. But I am curious. How do you hate flying on it? It will be years before the Il-96-400M is in passenger service! 🤣🤣

And please do not post non-English links in future unless you translate them first! Thank you.

[Moses]

21 hours ago, PeterRS said:

But I am curious. How do you hate flying on it? It will be years before the Il-96-400M is in passenger service! 🤣🤣

Where do you see in my words what I'm flying by IL-96-400?

21 hours ago, PeterRS said:

And please do not post non-English links in future unless you translate them first! Thank you.

I will post what I count relevant and don't need your advices, thank you. 

[PeterRS]

1 hour ago, Moses said:

Where do you see in my words what I'm flying by IL-96-400?

Here -

On 11/11/2023 at 5:24 PM, Moses said:

By the way: I hate to fly on Il-96 - 4 engines make flight too noisy, even more noisy than flight on Boing 747, I hate it too.

Sorry you did not like the Boeing 747. I thought it was a fantastic aircraft and loved the hundreds of flights I made on it over a 35+ year period.

1 hour ago, Moses said:

I will post what I count relevant and don't need your advices, thank you. 

Well, the Japanese and Russian sites you posted were not relevant, although you probably assumed no one would bother to try and translate them!