Bangkok adventures, observations and dilemmas

[flaneur]

With only a few more days left in Bangkok, I thought it might be interesting to a few to pen a few notes.  Please forgive that they are unstructured.  I hope to understand more from the distinguished posters here present for my next trip or perhaps my last few days here. For context, this is my fourth trip to Bangkok.  My first two trips were for weekends and my second was for a week so I do not try to compete with the experience on this forum.  I cannot commit to a daily report but I am visiting some other countries in South East Asia during my time away and I will try to do the same while travelling.  

 

Before flying from London Heathrow, I jumped at the chance to spend a few days with friends in Oxford as I would be in the UK anyway.  I can highly recommend the ‘Oxford Tube’ as a means of transport, which actually a bus!  It took me from central London, where I had stayed for two nights of tourism to the beautiful city of Oxford in an hour and a half.  Returning from Oxford to Heathrow required a change at Hillingdon station and one more bus for the princely sum of less than 2GBP.  Grindr in Oxford was full of handsome, university types and it was interesting to see many described themselves as ‘trans’, ‘non-binary’ or ‘queer’ despite presenting as a masculine.  Grindr in London was very busy and it was pan-European in nature, despite Brexit!  For those interested, I gathered that the going rate was about 150-200GBP though I did not partake.  

 

Eva Air direct to Suvarnabhumi on their business class product was efficient, friendly and comfortable.  The food was good, the wine flowed and the flight landed right on time after a good night of sleep.  Arrivals was very busy, there was a 10 minute wait at the fast track section but the bags were quick - so quick in fact that most people had not made it through security. 

 

I’ve been staying at Le Méridien, and it is good.  I like the evening pizza menu and breakfast is very good.  I’m not sure there has been much benefit to my suite upgrade, I have barely used the lounge and the men I have brought back to the room have on more than one occasion have been confused about why one person would need so much space (I think even regarding it as an unnecessary extravagance).  No problem with guests, key cards required for the lift, friendly staff.  Lots of gay folk, as I type from the ground floor I am looking at a middle aged guy European couple walking together wearing rainbow pins and holding hands.  Last time I stayed at Raya but I would choose here next time and save a few THB in a standard room.  The lounge is very nice and if I have time I will post a picture from the lounge, which I think may be a fair challenge for the ‘best view from a toilet’ posts previously seen on this forum.    

 

I am ambitious to become a flâneur (I cannot think of an English equivalent) in my later life and there is no better city than Bangkok to practice.  I’ve enjoyed (most of the time) my solitude, thoughts, my wandering, my coffee, my aimlessness and people-watching.  Today, for example, consider Soi 4.  At around noon, a large gathering of very smartly-dressed business types in designer suits queued for street food.  Interested, I wandered down the Soi to see about four carts in front of Banana Bar and other venues in the Soi.  It seemed to the most popular place for these hi-so workers for miles.  I wonder if these distinguished folk know the depravity that takes place just a few short hours after they have gathered their tasty morsels?  I imagine they know all-too-well and care little - and this is why I love Bangkok! I enjoy these aimless considerations.  

 

I felt something was ‘off’ about Tawan compared to my previous visits (when this was my favourite bar).  I have since read that the papasan in the beret, that I have before met, has recently passed away sadly and this is probably why. Much lenience is required, I suspect he was well-loved by staff. I have not stayed for a show but when visiting earlier in the evening the men working are less likely to sit alongside customers than in my previous visits.  Some older Thai men take the place of papasan but do not occupy the attention of customers. The place is looking more dishevelled than before.  That has, though, always been part of its charm.  I have a fond (?) memory of walking up the stairs from the bar to a room for a massage (if I assure you that it was virtuous, you will not believe me).  A large rat ran over my foot, leading to my loud screams and a look of horror at my exclamation from the masseur.  Happy memories.  

 

I have not found a guy to take home yet from Tawan as their huddle of men now includes a number of twinks, which are not my type.  I did have an interesting moment with a man who I think said his name was David.  He was my type and I was leaving the bar, having concluded after one drink that enough was enough.  He chased me down the road, threw his arms around me and told me he was horny.  My intention, of course, was to take a man to the room to discuss neoclassicalism’s influence on 18^th century Greek literature so this admission of horny-ness took me rather by surprise.  I declined the offer, wrongly now I think about it, as I was in the mindset of marching to HotMale determinedly.  I will try Tawan again and hope that this is a temporary situation caused by the loss of a formidable figure.  

 

HotMale beer bar is still a good spot with fairly priced drinks, smiling staff and good views.  I was surprised to see cannabis being smoked at the tables (only by one group of customers on one day).  There is a very handsome man who seems to stay behind the bar there, preparing drinks rather than waiting tables.  I have been trying hard to have eye contact with him, succeeding often, but receiving a nonchalant response.  Perhaps my portly (read: fat) build is off-putting or the stars just do not align.  I will not give up yet.  Advice welcome.  

 

HotMale’s gogo has been the surprise of my trip, in a good way.  The men on stage are keen to smile and engage with eye contact, are engrossed in securing your attention and not on their phones.  Though they are thin in number, there is something for everyone and especially for me (preferring 25-45, handsome, not thin, Dadbod or muscular-but-not-too-muscular types).  Smoking being allowed will be an irritant for some, but the papasan is flexible about reseating (and it has never been busy enough for this to be a problem). 

 

The HotMale ensemble are mostly topless and wearing fetching, pillar-box red sweatpants.  The show is awkward when it is quiet but ends well with an explicit fanfare that even would make my old Aunt Agatha blush (and she a woman with a remarkable, audacious character).  I had one strange experience with a guy I offed from HotMale when motivated by the aforementioned explicit display.  His girth, so to speak, was impressive from a distance.  Back in the hotel, just as we made progress with a particularly challenging logarithmic identity, I became distracted.  Something about this girth was not quite right.  It wasn’t that there were beads or noticeable defects, but the thickness seemed somehow artificial and not in keeping with the rest of the member concerned.  He was a good egg, and no harm was done.  He showed me his Lao passport which revealed both that he was aged 29 but also that he was considerably more handsome now than when the picture was taken a number of years ago!  

 

FreshBoys has the same loud and irritating mamasan and her interest in me has been only for the purpose of generating tips.  The men are young, I would say 20-25, predisposed to mobile-phone addiction at all times when not on the stage though smiles are frequent.  I am unlikely to revisit but this place will be a gem for some.  

 

The new Sol Bar is interesting and I have no conclusions.  From a distance (that is to say the HotMale beer bar) the men look handsome on the balcony, are mostly topless and I really like the shorts with numbers on rather than the usual badges.  Inside, I had a different experience on my one visit.  In some way, the lighting is not flattering and the building looks more downtrodden than when it was Dream Boys.  Somehow, I have not yet been able to bring myself to have more than one drink but my reason is not rational and based on some ‘feeling’.  I will try again.  

 

I have not yet made it to the Dream Boy show but will before I leave and update.  I cannot be motivated to go to Jupiter or Moonlight but I must do so because the men are hot and I have seen good reports recently.  My struggle is the passive, unsmiling approach I previously saw when visiting.  Also, I feel the men are hoping a woman will ‘off’ them, there being so many and the men being straight, and I will therefore be a disappointment.  Advice welcome.

 

I would also like advice on the language barrier.  I am almost ready to ask the mama/papasans which men speak English well.  I think this relates to another problem.  My ‘offs’ have been gratifying, but short with little room for conversation.  Yesterday, I had to use Google Translate ask the guy if he wanted a drink from the minibar.  My ‘offs’ last half an hour usually and I am craving more (they are probably enjoying the easy cash!). Though I don’t want LT, I cannot sleep unless alone.   

 

On my first visit a few years ago, I think I got lucky and saw the same man three or four times (now sadly ‘gone’ as per the report of the papasan) and we went for a few drinks before our deliberations on counterurbanisation in the room began.  I enjoyed his company and sense of fun.  This has not happened naturally for me yet. I would like company than extends beyond 30 minutes in the room talking through a phone. Advice welcome.

 

Although I have adjusted to the jetlag, I do also have a dilemma about adjusting to how late everything happens.  I am trying to dine around 2030, as things just don’t begin here until about 2230.  I cannot do a 2am finish and a breakfast that finishes at 10am!  I need more to be occupied with between 1700-2200 and cannot drink alcohol during this time as I will be drunk by midnight!  

 

I will post again and await thoughts and advice eagerly.  

 

[scott456]

Thanks for writing this report.

[Marc in Calif]

7 hours ago, flaneur said:

I am ambitious to become a flâneur (I cannot think of an English equivalent) in my later life and there is no better city than Bangkok to practice.  I’ve enjoyed (most of the time) my solitude, thoughts, my wandering, my coffee, my aimlessness and people-watching.  Today, for example, consider Soi 4.  At around noon, a large gathering of very smartly-dressed business types in designer suits queued for street food.  Interested, I wandered down the Soi to see about four carts in front of Banana Bar and other venues in the Soi. 

I need more to be occupied with between 1700-2200 and cannot drink alcohol during this time as I will be drunk by midnight!  

Have you considered not wandering or strolling around the Silom/Surawong districts?

A real flâneur typically has an interest in literature, art, and architecture. People-watching in the same area you visit at night isn't really being a flâneur.

How much of the rest of Bangkok do you really allow yourself to explore before you go to the bars every night? 

[ichigo]

Beautifully written!

[JackR]

Thanks for your post Flaneur.

I'm loving all the new reports on the forum at the moment.

I'm heading back to BKK next week after an absence of nearly FOUR years. I'm besides myself with excitement and these reports are getting me into the spirit.

[vinapu]

Great report , very thank you !

 

it seems that recently  Tawan undergoes some renaissance on this forum and is mentioned very often. Funny thing we usually heard complains for some members that they don't like their boys becuse tahy are too bid and too old. Nor for a change we hear  that is hard suitable bulky off because stable includes twinks.  I personally , even if like muscly men , think that those twinks there  are adding some spice , variety and value and bar is becoming one with something for everybody while still maintaining it's position as muscle central.

As for handsome bartender at hot Male beer bar don't give up, keep smiling in his direction , buy him a drink, force blue or red note into his palm and soon he will talk business.

I agree with your assessment of Hot male go-go, almost as friendly as Tawan with somebody for everybody. I like their crew being middle of the road both body and age wise 

Hope your next visit at Sol will result in more conclusive impression. Do try again as you indicated.

Nothing wrong with asking mamasan about English proficiency , I bet they hear it daily. 

one of approach to guarantee longer session is to start slowly and with non steamy thing, like that drink from minibar. Asking few personal questions about siblings , girl/ boyfriends and where he is from may broke the ice and generate good overture to more dynamic part to follow.

 

as for Jupiter and to lesser degree Moonlight, again I agree that boys sober look is off putting but as soon as you seat them beside   they start smiling and talking.  Esthetically they are very pleasing so don't allow their somewhat disinterest look  discourage you. Regular floor boys at Moonlight are quite friendly looking even when on the stage .

 

Waiting for next installment impatiently

[reader]

Thanks for your report. 

Thirty minutes I would think is the minimum time to expect from a ST bar off. An hour would be more the average. If you’re not happy with time, settle the issue before agreeing to off guy. If language an issue, ask mamasan to explain it to boy. 

You’re in the massage capital of world and encourage you to take advantage of it. On any given afternoon or evening there are easily a few hundred guys available in the Silom/Soi 6/Surawong rectangle. Most are outside their shops so you can survey many by just slowly walking past shops and see who returns smile. 

For me, this is far more efficient way of locating mutually acceptable mate for an hour or so than constantly scanning apps.  I dumped Grindr from phone earlier this trip because I found myself spending excessive, unproductive time on it. My rationale was that I didn’t travel 24 hours to look at a screen when there are plenty of the real thing at every turn. 

Enjoy remainder of trip.

[floridarob]

20 minutes ago, reader said:

Thirty minutes I would think is the minimum time to expect from a ST bar off. An hour would be more the average. If you’re not happy with time, settle the issue before agreeing to off guy. If language an issue, ask mamasan to explain it to boy. 

100%

Clients AND boys have different expectations.....I like to ensure we are on the same page. I've been told from  numerous  Mamasans that 3 hrs is reasonable for a ST.

I've noticed in many places I visit, they are trying to copy western escorts and charge by the hour now....🙄

The only by the hour charge I find reasonable is a massage 😉

[vinapu]

7 minutes ago, floridarob said:

I've noticed in many places I visit, they are trying to copy western escorts and charge by the hour now....🙄

 

Really? in Thailand? Never happened to me so far and in fact in 30 trips no more than 3-4 times boy tried to liberated himself  from my illustrious presence after just half an hour.

Charging by the hour is not only western concept, I understand it's how Japanese brothels operate as well. Not a bad concept per se but it puts too much stricture to a jolly meeting.

[PeterRS]

13 minutes ago, vinapu said:

Charging by the hour is not only western concept, I understand it's how Japanese brothels operate as well.

True. Boy bars in Japan have very strict time limits and extra payments if you go over.

15 minutes ago, vinapu said:

Really? in Thailand? Never happened to me so far and in fact in 30 trips no more than 3-4 times boy tried to liberated himself  from my illustrious presence after just half an hour.

No doubt that's because they were waiting for you to invite them for a meal at your 7-star Foodland restaurant 🤣

[vinapu]

45 minutes ago, PeterRS said:

 

No doubt that's because they were waiting for you to invite them for a meal at your 7-star Foodland restaurant 🤣

Not quite.

I feed my boys before we go to my room. That way they fed, deprived of chance of asking to go earlier because they are hungry ( some still try though ) and we have chance to talk and smile at each other.

[floridarob]

2 hours ago, vinapu said:

Never happened to me so far and in fact in 30 trips

because you specify LT up front, how often do you ask for ST?

[flaneur]

8 hours ago, vinapu said:

I personally , even if like muscly men , think that those twinks there  are adding some spice , variety and value and bar is becoming one with something for everybody while still maintaining it's position as muscle central.

 

I agree! One fine day I may surprise myself with an ‘off’, I may begin with a stretch to twunk (perhaps the gateway drug?)

 

8 hours ago, vinapu said:

 

Hope your next visit at Sol will result in more conclusive impression. Do try again as you indicated.

 

I can be more conclusive and will update on my next post (it is positive) 

 

8 hours ago, vinapu said:

one of approach to guarantee longer session is to start slowly and with non steamy thing, like that drink from minibar. Asking few personal questions about siblings , girl/ boyfriends and where he is from may broke the ice and generate good overture to more dynamic part to follow.

 

 

Excellent advice and I will do better 

[flaneur]

7 hours ago, reader said:

 

Thirty minutes I would think is the minimum time to expect from a ST bar off. An hour would be more the average. If you’re not happy with time, settle the issue before agreeing to off guy. If language an issue, ask mamasan to explain it to boy. 

 

Last evening I achieved 55 minutes so you would be proud of me I hope. 
 

7 hours ago, reader said:

 

 I dumped Grindr from phone earlier this trip because I found myself spending excessive, unproductive time on it. 

 

I scan it and as travel continues forth to other cities I may rely on it more but for now this affliction has not seized me. I am going to try massages more than bars though! Thanks for the tips. 

[vinapu]

20 hours ago, floridarob said:

because you specify LT up front, how often do you ask for ST?

Correct but short times are happening chiefly because guy is not keen on long time and still never any of those said "I must go, 1 hr elapsed"   or ' 1hr 1500, 1.5 hr 2000".

In massage venues as we noticed  it's another story and they charge by time  but it makes sense if they want to keep appearance of being legitimate therapists 

[vinapu]

16 hours ago, flaneur said:

Last evening I achieved 55 minutes so you would be proud of me I hope. 

we all are, see how fast you improved !

[floridarob]

4 hours ago, vinapu said:

still never any of those said "I must go, 1 hr elapsed"   or ' 1hr 1500, 1.5 hr 2000".

They give you the other list of excuses.....

[vinapu]

20 hours ago, floridarob said:

They give you the other list of excuses.....

true but original issue was :  " they are trying to copy western escorts and charge by the hour now."

some of those excuses are fancy indeed not just roommate's lost key or wrongly parked motorbike ( by guy who I know for sure doesn't have one ). My most memorable were middle of the night , like 3 am " I must go now because I must go to gym at 6 am" or " I must go now because I must help my roommate to move in the morning" or one from  last night of last  trip " I go to buy something to eat and return in 10 minutes" of course never to return but that did not prevent from cheerful message in the morning ' how are you this morning ?, what you are doing today ?"

 

[10tazione]

I must go to english class. It was 6 am on  April 15/Songkran.

[vinapu]

12 hours ago, 10tazione said:

I must go to english class. It was 6 am on  April 15/Songkran.

I got once cooking class excuse but it seemed legitimate as it was presented by the time tested boy right after I asked him about going with me LT that evening. 

[forrestreid]

On 10/31/2023 at 9:31 PM, Marc in Calif said:

Have you considered not wandering or strolling around the Silom/Surawong districts?

A real flâneur typically has an interest in literature, art, and architecture. People-watching in the same area you visit at night isn't really being a flâneur.

How much of the rest of Bangkok do you really allow yourself to explore before you go to the bars every night? 

That's a little harsh Marc.

According to Wikipedia a flâneur "is an ambivalent figure of urban affluence and modernity, representing the ability to wander detached from society with no other purpose than to be an acute observer of industrialized, contemporary life."

Perhaps associated with people who have an interest in art or architecture, but not essential. Historically a flâneur (usually seen as a male figure) was somebody who had a fascination in the "demi-monde", and was particularly interested in wandering about red light districts in Pars and other European cities.

A suggested Itinerary

But if you want to spread your wings Flaneur, here is an itinerary that enables you to indulge your penchant for being a flaneur, and starts and ends within ten minutes journey from Saladaeng  station.

Get a Sky train to Siam Station. Have a wander in Siam Square. In the late afternoon/early evening, it should be full of young Thai people shopping and eating. Walk up along the skywalk eastwards, up Rama 1 road, passing the Siam Paragon and Central World Shopping Centre. Pause at the Erawon shrine and watch the crowds making merit. Admire the model elephants many leave.

Then continue past Chit Lom skytrain station toward the beginning of Sukhumvit Road. Plenty of vendors to observe and you will start to notice more and more middle-aged western guys in the crowd.

Pass under the motorway overpass and you are on Sukhumvit. Wonder up Soi 3 and the Little Arabia” zone, area full of Arabs smoking Shishas and nice Lebanese food, and go as far as a soi 7 and 11 - you will be in the centre of the straight  expat and sexpat area with plenty of interesting bars and life to see. Cross the road at Nana station and stroll down Soi 4 (Soi Nana itself) as far as Nana Plaza.  Observe the sign under the entrance that proclaims Nana Plaza as as “the worlds largest adult playground.” Go in and see if you agree.

Perhaps go to the top level and into one of the ladyboy bars. I’m not interested in ladyboys sexually but they can be fun to talk to, and a lot of them have a very good English.

That’s what I call a good evening of playing the flaneur, and at the end of it you can jump on the skytrain at Nana station, and be back in Saladaeng within 10 minutes (don’t forget to change trains at Siam).

[flaneur]

I have left Bangkok and write from Vientiane.  I am enjoying a down-time trip here, with not good opportunities for a forum post involving adventures, observations and dilemmas about Laos.  I think I will post from Vietnam, my next stop with more time.    

 

Thank you for the replies.  Forrestreid your post is brilliant.  I think I am back in Bangkok in a fortnight and I will follow much of your itinerary, for sure! You correctly make reference to Paris but it is also important to recognise London (in the past, Camden, and now East London) and Dublin. The reason an English language word to flaneur is difficult is because it is all of the things you say leading to nuance. I especially appreciate your attention to detail in providing practical information which saves me much time. 

 

As I promised, I provide an unstructured update but with less time to edit and refine.  On future trips I will try to commit to a diary as is the custom but I hope this is interesting even to just one person!   

 

I was quick to comment on Tawan unfairly. On my second visit the atmosphere was brighter.  Twinks make up no more than 20% of the gathering of men working in the bar.  I heard more about the loss of our beret-wearing friend.  I was told he was 60 and died suddenly of a heart attack.  An off from Tawan was not in the cards for me this time. 

 

To Sol. I was more comfortable on my second visit (a theme?).  I was first quick to compare Sol with the old Dream Boys.  I think this is because they have done little with the inside so the comparison is hard not to begin with.  They have taken away all branding of Dream Boys, replacing it with usually nothing or with their own logo which is not easy to my eyes (a past failed career in marketing does not help me here).  

 

But the men they have are friendly and plentiful in number with variety, aged early 20s to early 30s towards the toned rather than thin.  One older western guy was enjoying the company of four or five men during my visit (I think the youth would call this ‘living your best life’) with French-kissing, 1000 bhat tips dispensed every few minutes to the delight of the workforce.  I met a man in his late 20s who accompanied me to my room for detailed contemplations on the success or otherwise of the Asian Development Bank vis a vis other international comparisons.  Following Vinapu’s super advice on first trying ‘non-steamy’ small-chat, I learnt about his broken mobile phone leading to the need to start working in the bar as being a Grab delivery driver without a phone is impossible. A 600 bhat per day wage to a 200 bhat per day wage in the bar was the outcome (unless there is an off, which he claimed I was his first in two weeks of working). I suspected this would lead to a request for a mobile phone, but it did not.  The story seemed true when, in a moment of forgetfulness, I asked for his LINE ID later and was told he did not have one because he did not have a phone! 

 

Dream Boys had change during my visit.  As was reported on the forum by another, there was an incident involving the theft of several 1000s of bhat and a mobile phone from a hotel, by a worker from a customer.  I learnt from a talkative (thank you Vinapu for your advice about asking for English language ability from mamasan) man who works there that the owner immediate let go of all staff that were not Thai, as the man could not be traced.  This came from just one worker who erred on the side of gossip and perhaps exaggeration in tone.  Some men are now in Banana Bar, according to this report.  The Dream Boys ensemble are now fewer but the quality is high (to my eye).  The vision of the owner is apparently for an all-Thai group from this time forth.  

 

Banana Bar show is lots of fun and laughs, marketed to those out with friends and groups as well as the tourist looking for company.  Men appear not often on stage.  

 

I did not, on two visits, enjoy more than one quick beverage in Screw Boys.  The atmosphere was difficult as the only customer or one of three, being so close to the stage with all eyes looking, I was self-conscious.  Men are early 20s to early 30s.  The mamasan who refused to not sit alongside me was funny with her sales-approach towards the huddle of men as they march which went something like ‘This boy, very big, does everything, no English.  This boy, less big, only man but good English.  This boy, very big, does everything, good English’.  

 

I was sad that an excursion to Arena was not available in the Le Meridian list of tours (feedback will be provided to Marriott) but I was able to visit anyway.  Once I had found the place (ignore Google Maps which takes you down some side road to a car park with an angry looking guard, go the front of the building, walk past the restaurants and to the lift at the back, third floor) I was very happy at what was inside.  Five men looked not quite ready for Tawan but like they had recently left the gym and were ‘normal looking’ and handsome were in attendance and I spent time with a man in his early 30s from Chang Mai.  

 

Again thank you for all replies.  I hope to post something from other countries as I visit in the weeks upcoming.  

[moistmango]

18 minutes ago, flaneur said:

Dream Boys had change during my visit.  As was reported on the forum by another, there was an incident involving the theft of several 1000s of bhat and a mobile phone from a hotel, by a worker from a customer.  I learnt from a talkative (thank you Vinapu for your advice about asking for English language ability from mamasan) man who works there that the owner immediate let go of all staff that were not Thai, as the man could not be traced.  This came from just one worker who erred on the side of gossip and perhaps exaggeration in tone.  Some men are now in Banana Bar, according to this report.  The Dream Boys ensemble are now fewer but the quality is high (to my eye).  The vision of the owner is apparently for an all-Thai group from this time forth.  

Yikes. I hope indeed it was an exaggeration. Can't imagine that DB can keep up the numbers they're used to without foreigners. 

[reader]

This marks the return of the Dreamboy policy of only hiring Thais. That policy was abandoned a few years ago in order to boost numbers. I agree that any bar that size will likely experience difficulty without non-Thais. Letting all foreigners go due to one bad apple seems rash.

[floridarob]

1 hour ago, reader said:

Letting all foreigners go due to one bad apple seems rash.

Maybe they saw the video of Dream Boys in Pattaya....😲