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t0oL1

Thailand invites Putin...

By t0oL1, in The Beer Bar

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PeterRS Grand Master

PeterRS

Posted
Posted
53 minutes ago, t0oL1 said:

Wondering how they got Pol Pot to "visit". 

How did that end up?

He fled to Thailand after the Vietnamese invasion which liberated the country after Pol Pot's genocide. Thais have traditionally hated the Vietnamese and seen the country as an enemy. Military commanders had seen Pol Pot as a buffer between the two states. That they should indirectly have condoned Pol Pot's actions is utterly shameful. 

reader Grand Master

reader

Posted
Posted

From Pattaya Mail

The ifs and buts of Thailand’s new friendship with Russia

By Barry Kenyon

The western democracies are still trying to fathom why Pheu Thai party premier Srettha Thavisin had his photo publicly taken with president Putin at the recent belt and road summit in China whilst inviting the Russian leader for a state visit. Critical social media suggest it was a bad idea because Srettha’s international claim to represent democracy and human rights has hit the proverbial iceberg. Not to mention the negative effects on tourism from traditional markets in America, Europe and Australia. On the other hand, international tourist numbers to Thailand has seldom been affected by the domestic situation for more than a few weeks, even post-coup.

Examined from a Thai perspective, the issues look different. Thailand has had diplomatic relations with Russia for 125 years and the celebrations last year did not attraction any adverse international comment. Indeed, the last czar Nicholas II is commonly credited with helping to save Thailand from imperialist aggression by foreign powers. In 1996, Russia became a fully-fledged “dialogue partner” with the 10-nation ASEAN group, in which Thailand has the second biggest economy, and in 2004 Russia acceded to the treaty of amity and cooperation in southeast Asia.

Russia was silent when the Thai coup if 2014 occurred and, under the leadership of general Prayut Chan-o-cha warm relationships continued. In 2017, both nations drew up a statement of reciprocity which gave Russians and Thais 30 days of visa free travel when travelling to each other’s country (now to be extended to 90 days on a trial basis). As regards Ukraine, Thailand initially voted at the United Nations in March 2022 to condemn Russian aggression, but has abstained from later votes condemning the annexation of the occupied territories. Nor is Thailand a formal state signatory of the international criminal court’s attempt to have Putin arrested if he steps abroad. All these developments occurred well before Srettha became the Thai premier.

Putin has also accepted a state visit invitation from Vietnam. In this context, it’s worth remembering that Joe Biden’s trip to Hanoi in 2023 saw an upgrading of ties to a comprehensive strategic partnership between the US and Vietnam. Vietnam’s policy has to be seen in context, namely to avoid being too committed to one side or the other. Similarly, Srettha will visit San Francisco in the United States in November 2023 to attend the summit of the Asia Pacific Economic Cooperation. As political analyst Thitinan Pondsudhirak has written, “Srettha has not turned to Putin at the expense of the west. He wants both.”

Thai-Russian trade is still relatively small at US$10 billion a year. Thailand’s exports to Russia include vehicles, machinery, electronics, vegetables and fruit, whilst imports are mainly oil, fertilizer and steel. Much of the trade now moves through the port of Vladivostok with its offshore banking facilities designed to offset western economic sanctions and the exclusion of Swift from financial transactions involving Russia. Western commentators can hold up their hands in horror about Thailand’s collaboration with the man who has inflicted so much misery on Ukraine and the world. But Thailand is now led by a real estate tycoon who is an accomplished salesman keen to do business worldwide. His bold aim pure and simple is to generate enough national wealth to ensure Pheu Thai wins the next general election in 2027.

vinapu Grand Master

vinapu

Posted
Posted
15 hours ago, PeterRS said:

He fled to Thailand after the Vietnamese invasion which liberated the country after Pol Pot's genocide. Thais have traditionally hated the Vietnamese and seen the country as an enemy. Military commanders had seen Pol Pot as a buffer between the two states. That they should indirectly have condoned Pol Pot's actions is utterly shameful. 

Unfortunately West, out of hatred of communism,   was not any better. Vietnamese chased Red Khmers in 1979 but Khmer  Rouge regime, so called Democratic Kampuchea kept her UN seat well into 80ties even if their atrocities in the country were well known and documented. At least we financed UN peace mission and rebuilding of the country in n90-ties as partial redemption for such shameful conduct.

so we have very small tittle to condemn Thailand's  overtures to Russia. Unfortunately. It's called politics, nasty thing when comes to morality

PeterRS Grand Master

PeterRS

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, vinapu said:

Unfortunately West, out of hatred of communism,   was not any better. Vietnamese chased Red Khmers in 1979 but Khmer  Rouge regime, so called Democratic Kampuchea kept her UN seat well into 80ties even if their atrocities in the country were well known and documented. At least we financed UN peace mission and rebuilding of the country in n90-ties as partial redemption for such shameful conduct.

International relations are rarely simple. The Vietnamese invaded partly to stop incursions and killings on its territory by the Khmer Rouge. Mercifully Vietnam did invade for it finally put a stop to the Pol Pot genocide. But Cambodia pre-Pol Pot was allied to several countries including China and it was to Beijing that Prince Norodom Sihanouk fled after the 1970 coup. Sihanouk backed the Khmer Rouge as did China. And when Sihanouk returned in 1975 it was as the figurehead head of state in the Khmer Rouge government.

Although he soon became disillusioned with Pol Pot' regime, China did not. After the Vietnamese invasion, It continued to back the Khmer Rouge, even training its fighters. China and Vietnam were traditional enemies, and partly because of the invasion, the Chinese then invaded Vietnam in February 1979.

The China-Vietnam war lasted a mere 4 weeks, ending after it captured a few Vietnamese town on March 6. I remember that so well for I flew from the UK to Hong Kong on March 2. As a result of the war, all flights were denied Vietnam airspace. Those from Bangkok to Hong Kong had to fly down and around, resulting in an additional hour's flying time.

Going back to the issue of Thailand welcoming Pol Pot, one reason for this was Kissinger's request to Prime Minister Chatuchai on November 26 1975. Kissinger said that the US would support the Khmer Rouge despite their being "evil". "They are murderous thugs but  we won't let that stand in our way. We are prepared to improve relations with them."

Sadly, after the humiliation of the war in Vietnam, there was no way the US would wish to be seen encouraging that country. After the Vietnamese invasion, the US slapped even more sanctions on Vietnam  and then blocked the IMF from loaning more to the country. To be fair, this US view was echoed by many other countries who also backed the fallen Khmer Cambodia over its Vietnamese invaders throughout the 1980s.

vinapu Grand Master

vinapu

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, PeterRS said:

 

Going back to the issue of Thailand welcoming Pol Pot, one reason for this was Kissinger's request to Prime Minister Chatuchai on November 26 1975. Kissinger said that the US would support the Khmer Rouge despite their being "evil". "They are murderous thugs but  we won't let that stand in our way. We are prepared to improve relations with them."

........

To be fair, this US view was echoed by many other countries who also backed the fallen Khmer Cambodia over its Vietnamese invaders throughout the 1980s.

Eternal shame on Kissinger, hope he rots in hell when his time comes.  Even now, 40 odd years later my blood pressure is rising to 250/140 when I think about that.  

As I said above at least USA and their colleagues  in shame contributed mightily to placing Cambodia back on her feet.

PeterRS Grand Master

PeterRS

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, vinapu said:

Eternal shame on Kissinger, hope he rots in hell when his time comes.  Even now, 40 odd years later my blood pressure is rising to 250/140 when I think about that.  

As I said above at least USA and their colleagues  in shame contributed mightily to placing Cambodia back on her feet.

As you rightly pointed out, hatred of communism resulted in actions by several countries which would no doubt be counted as crimes in normal times. The Cold War split the world into areas of influence with the two main participants, the US and the USSR, desperate to prove to all that its system was the better.

Kissinger is greatly admired around the world as one of its greatest statesmen. With the benefit of hindsight, that reputation is unlikely to last much longer than his death, whenever that may occur. In earlier posts, I have mentioned his participation, direct or indirect, the latter through promises of non-intervention, in many wars. He was in Jakarta the day before Indonesia invaded East Timor. He was in Islamabad the day before West Pakistan lauched its murderous war with Bengali East Pakistan. And so on.

One of the more recent books about Kissinger is The Blood Telegram: Nixon, Kissinger, and a Forgotten Genocide by Gary Bass. This specifically focuses on the Pakistan war, but it could equally cover other conflicts as other books have done. The New York Times review included the following -  

"This is a dark and amazing tale, an essential reminder . . . Devastating . . . Shocking . . . Nixon and Kissinger spent the decades after leaving office burnishing their images as great statesmen. This book goes a long way in showing just how undeserved those reputations are."

The Washington Post review was as bad -

"A profoundly disturbing account of the hitherto hidden role of Richard Nixon and Henry Kissinger in the slaughter of hundreds of thousands . . . Bass has defeated the attempted coverup through laborious culling of relevant sections of the Nixon White House tapes, declassified State Department documents and interviews with former officials, American and Indian, who were involved . . . After reading Bass's account of this shameful episode, one has to . . . conclude that where the Bengalis were concerned, Kissinger and Nixon simply did not give a damn."


This is just one book in what is becoming a library of books about Kissinger and his participation in the slaughter of many millions around the world. It would be interesting as a counterpoint to read similar exposes of the evils done by Khrushchev, Kosygin, Brezhnev, Mikoyan, Andropov and their henchmen.

reader Grand Master

reader

Posted
Posted

Yes, and despite all that when your homeland is again threatened (as it was twice in the 20th century), you know who’ll be first on the speed dial.

vinapu Grand Master

vinapu

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, t0oL1 said:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/plugged-into-machines-vladimir-putin-in-stable-but-serious-condition-and-doctors-are-not-optimistic-after-alleged-heart-attack-sources-claim/ar-AA1iQ8cO?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=15c8c6a3b958449d8621835f31ecaec8&ei=34

Idea that country like Russia will be lead by Putin's body double is probably most laughable I heard from time Columbus  went to India and some claimed that no, he discovered new continent altogether

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