Thailand in the low season (trip report)

[floridarob]

5 hours ago, reader said:

Maybe I'm just easy to please.

I've heard that....but then I've read some of the tussles you and peter have gotten into 😉

[moistmango]

 

Thank you for your trip report @moistmango Witty and insightful. Lots of useful update for my trip to BKK next weekend.

Have fun! 

[vinapu]

8 minutes ago, moistmango said:

Have fun! 

he will, rest assured

[scott456]

52 minutes ago, moistmango said:

Have fun! 

 

43 minutes ago, vinapu said:

he will, rest assured

Don't you wish you were there?

[PeterRS]

23 hours ago, reader said:

Why tip anyone. Just consider yourself entitled to have boys service your body for the sheer thrill of it.

if we all follow your logic, no one would be tipping anyone.  Maids, bartenders, waiters and bellhops would get stiffed.

I agreee totally with @macaroni21! On my very first visit to Tokyo several decades ago, I stayed in the huge Keio Plaza Hotel in west Shinjuku. I had come from 10 days in several cities in the USA where I had found myself caught out by the level of tips expected in restaurants and even by the hotels' room maids. Being European and used to 10% service charges or tips around that level automatically added to bills, the looks I'd been getting unless I added at least another 5% were extremely offputting. In one case even aggressive. By 15 or so years ago, many waiters would not move from your table if the tip was less than 20%.

I was immediately charmed by the politeness and civility of the Japanese receptionist as well as the cuteness of the bellboy who took me and my luggage up to my room. Like @macaroni21's friend, I offered a ¥100 coin as a small tip (then around 40 US cents). He drew back from me, clearly offended that I had offered him anything. It was only then I realised that tipping in Japan is a no-no. 

I fully understand that there is a problem in Thailand where prostitution is illegal - no matter how widespread it is. Most of us are well aware that a tip is in fact a fee, but we go along with the charade. I did find it more pleasant in the 1980s and 1990s when tips were " up to you." And I think i was a good tipper, especially when the assignation was particularly pleasureable (as almost all were)! Only once in so many dozens and dozens of offs did any boy ask for more - and he was from Screwboys about 20 years ago.

[scott456]

For sex massage, I only go to the massage parlors where the minimum tip amount is clearly spelled out.  I don't want to guess how much to tip.  I am always upfront with the manasun/manager what I want, so there is no misunderstanding that sex ( a hard cock) from the massuer is requested and expected.

[vinapu]

13 hours ago, scott456 said:

 

Don't you wish you were there?

I do, specially that I know jason1975 and fun is guaranteed but can't find airfare within my price range, checking every day though and hope to pull the same stunt I did in May when I booked trip on Thursday and was sitting in the plane already on Sunday

[vinapu]

13 hours ago, scott456 said:

 I only go to the massage parlors where the minimum tip amount is clearly spelled out. 

I made my life easy and adhere to simple system, 1hr, 1000 tip, 1.5 hr , 1500 tip. If minimum tip is lower than that I still pay according to my scale.

If its higher then if I decide to go ahead , of course I pay whatever that tip is. If I like service , boy or both I like to force 200-500 extra on them , specially if I suspect I'd be looking for another visit.

The same system in both BKK and Pattaya.

 

[vinapu]

14 hours ago, PeterRS said:

 in the USA where I had found myself caught out by the level of tips expected in restaurants and even by the hotels' room maids.

I too wish that in USA they would pay better wages to their service providers so they don't relay on tips to that extend but now we need to go withy the program I guess.

Never had anything drastic there but remember I was shocked  in some place in Times Square NY when waiter mentioned that tip is not included in price before he even asked what we would like to order. Our party credited it to a fact that in that place must be many tourists who have no idea about tipping level and etiquette so waiter wanted to be proactive.

In any place when I hear people complaining about tips I universally dispense advise that  is easy to eat in the food court or take bus instead of taxi to avoid such tipping stress. 

 

[vinapu]

On 10/1/2023 at 12:21 AM, moistmango said:

DAY 5

 

Tonight, I’m off to see Dao. Wish me luck, folks. 

 

we did and now we wonder how that charm worked

[reader]

19 hours ago, floridarob said:

I've heard that....but then I've read some of the tussles you and peter have gotten into 😉

Peter and I both appreciate the finer points of debate and share many common interests.

As I've aged my concept of what defines a good massage, a good off has evolved quite a lot. Frequently I find that the shared meal before or after is just as meaningful as the main event.

24 minutes ago, vinapu said:

I too wish that in USA they would pay better wages to their service providers so they don't relay on tips to that extend but now we need to go withy the program I guess.

Wages paid to employees who depend upon tips in the US is a hodgepodge of laws that varies from state to state. Some southern states set the minimum wage peg below $3.00 per hour as a glance at the attached link shows.

https://www.minimum-wage.org/tipped

Fast food workers have long been underpaid but I recently read that legislation in California has established a $20.00 per hour floor.

I regret that the discussion has migrated away from the OP's entertaining trip report and appreciate his indulgence. The topic deserves a separate thread.

 

[scott456]

5 hours ago, vinapu said:

in some place in Times Square NY when waiter mentioned that tip is not included in price before he even asked what we would like to order. Our party credited it to a fact that in that place must be many tourists who have no idea about tipping level and etiquette so waiter wanted to be proactive.

I encountered this situation in Mexico multiple times.  Mexicans proactively asked for tips upfront when they sense you are an American. Some of them even count the tips in front of you and give you a look (content or discontent look).  But I have seen many times that Mexicans themselves didn't tip.  I guess Americans are guilty for being Americans.

[scott456]

5 hours ago, vinapu said:

In any place when I hear people complaining about tips I universally dispense advise that  is easy to eat in the food court or take bus instead of taxi to avoid such tipping stress. 

 

Exactly,  this is why I only get take out or go to food courts in America when I am by myself.  Uber used to pride itself for no tipping required, but now actively solicit tips on its apps.

[moistmango]

THE FINAL DAYS

Spoiler, or TLDR: things with Tao end on a sour note, but the silver lining in the cloud is that I meet someone else.

My time in Pattaya turned out to be less active than I’d hoped, though maybe that’s not a bad thing for a vacation. Grand plans to visit the Truth temple and an elephant sanctuary, or maybe take in a Muay Thai match, do not work out; I even miss Jomtien and Walking Street. (The latter looked like a real circus from afar, not in a good way.) Did quite a bit of strolling up and down Pattaya Beach, though, which is a gorgeous thing to do at the golden hour. Also managed to get a little shopping done.

The last couple of days were lazy ones. On Sunday, I sleep in. Staggered up at 9.30 a.m. to make it for the last stretch of the breakfast buffet, and faffed around a little – to use a friend’s preferred way of describing what one does when one does absolutely nothing productive – then returned to bed. Later in the aft, I decide I’ll try to get lucky again on Grindr with an in-call massage. I stumble onto Ken, a muscle boy who looks to be in his mid to late 30s. After a bit of back and forth and a number of repeated excuses, it becomes clear that he does not take clients in the day, for some reason or other. (He tells me he does massage work full-time, so it can’t be other work commitments. Maybe it’s a hangover.) In any case, he agrees to an 8.30 pm session at my hotel, then proceeds to show up 20 mins *ahead* of time. He’s not quite as muscled as in his pics and videos, but seems as if he still has some goods to show, so I decide to keep the session. In my room, after he takes his clothes off, I like what I see. Plus he’s wearing a red g-string, and there’s nothing I like better than skimpy undies on a built guy. The massage is decent – not great – but as least he didn’t rush through it to get to the finish. All good, in my book.

I have a date with Tao, from the previous night at Dream Boys. Of course, when I show up at 10.30 p.m., he’s not around. “He no come”, the puzzled mama, Nonni, tells me. I’m disappointed and annoyed, but figure that this is boy bar culture – promises and punctuality are not prized goods. In any case, there’s the show at X-Boys across the street, and Nonni insists on coming with me and having me buy her a drink. I rather enjoy her good nature and love of fun, so it’s a green light. The show today is a diluted version of Saturday’s performance, and the crowd is also noticeably sparser. I end up ordering a bottle of Thai whiskey – Sansom, one of the cheapest on the menu – so naturally our table becomes the centre of the action. Nonni departs periodically for DB, and after an hour or so, as the performance is winding down and I’m wondering if I want to off one of the cuter faces on stage, lo and behold, Tao shows up, clad in his civvies. Clearly Nonni had worked her magic (or used her whip). I’m well, buoyantly pleased, to put it mildly. We return to DB, where the party continues. I buy another bottle of Sansom, and a good time is had by all. A group of us head out for supper at the braised duck eatery next door, and by the time Tao and I stumble back to my hotel I’m good and soused. Strangely, Tao turns out to *actually* be straight, or at least closer to the heterosexual end of the spectrum. He asks to watch some straight porn to get off, but is nonetheless very willing to cuddle and be affectionate. He also gifts me a little statuette of a monk as a souvenir, to which he wai-s when he takes his leave of it. It is one of the most personal presents I’ve received.

My last full day in Pats is spent on a lousy hangover. Gone are the days when a night of binge-drinking will do little to me .. It’s another day of naps and faffing around, and then I unfortunately have to take a work meeting in the mid-aft. On my daily pre-dinner stroll along Beach Rd. I stumble onto the Fat Coco Seafood Club at the ship-shaped A1 Royal Cruise Hotel. The décor is tiki-tiki meets Miami Beach – lots of thatch and rattan and neon signage – and a real f**king hoot. I like the vibes enormously, so decide to splurge and order a crab omelette and a large plate of river prawns steamed with soy sauce and garlic. The omelette is a little too greasy for my taste, but the prawns are dee-lee-cious, and come with a fabulous green chili and lime dip. It’s hard to go wrong with seafood when it’s fresh and simply prepared.

After dinner, Tao messages to ask if I want to spend some time with him later, when he’s at the bar. I’m thrilled, of course. I’m thinking that, yes, we can take it easy and maybe take a stroll on the beach (his suggestion), but, as most such narratives go, the protagonist is clearly being set up for a letdown. Tao proves to be a no-show, unsurprisingly. I sit at DB for 40 minutes that evening, chatting with Nonni and her fellow mama-san. When he eventually texts to say that “I busy”, but that he needs money, my patience has been quite abraded. I take off to X-Boys to watch the show – for the third night in a row – but am distracted by the constant messaging with Tao as he asks if I’m angry, if I can transfer some money to him, to say that he’s struggling and can he come to my room later (at 4 am!) etc. Nonni senses that I won’t be good company this evening, and seems a little uncomfortable. As I sit at the bar and think about the Buddhist notion of karma, I wonder where my interpersonal karmic balance with Tao now lies: in my favour (because he’s being such a user), or in his (his seemingly sincere gesture of a gift last night). I decide that his little statuette deserves, if nothing else, some cash at least, so I leave some with Nonni. I hope it’s of use to Tao, and that whatever issues he’s facing get sorted out. His unreliability with clients can’t possibly endear him to employers, and his prospects in this business may not be bright - I wonder if we’ll get to meet again, whether in this context or another altogether.

As the show winds down, I spot a cute face from previous nights:  a tall-ish guy in his late twenties perhaps, with full lips and floppy bangs. He’s gangly and slightly awkward as a performer, but that just adds to the charm. I take him – X-Boys’ off fee is 800 baht, higher than most – and head off back to the hotel, where, once again, it turns out that my gaydar is completely dysfunctional. Art (Utt?), despite the typical boy next door vibes, proves to be quite partial to male charms, and, in fact, within 20 minutes of being back in my room, we’re both done. That he rather enjoys my company is attested to by the fact that he hangs around afterward, and with the help of Google translate and his smattering of English, we manage to have a decently informative conversation, peppered with lots of kissing. It’s one of the sweetest encounters I’ve had on this trip, or in a long while, in fact. He comes from a rice-farming family in Isaan, and the shockingly calloused texture of his palms prompted my question about his background in the first place – he’s not the smoothest of the lot, as that upbringing suggests, but that just adds to the charm. When it’s time for him to leave, he tells me quite honestly that he’s hungry and off for supper, and that it’s his favourite chicken noodles he wants. Or, as he says it, with a rub of his washboard flat tummy, “chee-KEN noodles”. I’m just bowled over – by a boy mispronouncing chicken. My dotage has arrived.

The next day, I send him 5 messages on Line, asking him to keep in touch.

I leave for the airport in a bit, so am taking the little bit of free time I have to wrap up my report for you good folks. Wishing those who have plans in Thailand a productive time! (Looking at you, @jason1975.) May my little guy watch over us all in his meditative contemplation.

 

[Department_Of_Agriculture]

37 minutes ago, moistmango said:

THE FINAL DAYS

Spoiler, or TLDR: things with Tao end on a sour note, but the silver lining in the cloud is that I meet someone else....

 

...Tao turns out to *actually* be straight, or at least closer to the heterosexual end of the spectrum. He asks to watch some straight porn to get off, but is nonetheless very willing to cuddle and be affectionate. He also gifts me a little statuette of a monk as a souvenir, to which he wai-s when he takes his leave of it. It is one of the most personal presents I’ve received...

...As I sit at the bar and think about the Buddhist notion of karma, I wonder where my interpersonal karmic balance with Tao now lies: in my favour (because he’s being such a user), or in his (his seemingly sincere gesture of a gift last night). I decide that his little statuette deserves, if nothing else, some cash at least, so I leave some with Nonni. I hope it’s of use to Tao, and that whatever issues he’s facing get sorted out. His unreliability with clients can’t possibly endear him to employers, and his prospects in this business may not be bright. I wonder if we’ll get to meet again.

I leave for the airport in a bit, so am taking the little bit of free time I have to wrap up my report for you good folks. Wishing those who have plans in Thailand a productive time! (Looking at you, @jason1975.) May my little guy watch over us all in his meditative contemplation.

 

That is not a gift, but a trap. That is a black magic object of the type that bar girls - and, less commonly, bar boys - use to trap a client into a long-term relationship for their benefit. Your "I decide that his little statuette deserves, if nothing else, some cash at least" statement suggests that it already seems to be doing its job.

If you are still in Thailand, I suggest that you give it to a monk at the nearest temple. If you are already at the airport and flying to your home country (which is obvious enough, though it need not be named), give it to the Thai temple there, if they are willing to accept it. Either way, get rid of it respectfully. Don't just throw it away, but do get rid of it fast. That is not a good object.

Everyone is free to believe and do what they will, of course, but it would be remiss of someone who has some awareness of these things to remain silent in a situation like this.

[vinapu]

Nice gesture from Tao this figure

(although not so according to what Department of A says above )

but at end of day as no-show I wouldn't be happy. In such cases I wouldn't be in rush to meet him again although I'm believer in giving second chances but not right away, no.

Contrary to conventional wisdom I have rather good record with  guys punctuality and learned if they are late there's overwhelming chance they don't show up at all or if they show they will be rushing things. 

Thank you for great report and glad to her your last off was memorable and trouble free.

[moistmango]

1 hour ago, vinapu said:

Thank you for great report and glad to her your last off was memorable and trouble free.

Thanks for being a keen and close reader, Vin! It's the first time I'm documenting a trip in such detail, and, I have to say, it's been cathartic when it needed to be.

[moistmango]

2 hours ago, Department_Of_Agriculture said:

That is not a gift, but a trap. That is a black magic object of the type that bar girls - and, less commonly, bar boys - use to trap a client into a long-term relationship for their benefit. Your "I decide that his little statuette deserves, if nothing else, some cash at least" statement suggests that it already seems to be doing its job.

If you are still in Thailand, I suggest that you give it to a monk at the nearest temple. If you are already at the airport and flying to your home country (which is obvious enough, though it need not be named), give it to the Thai temple there, if they are willing to accept it. Either way, get rid of it respectfully. Don't just throw it away, but do get rid of it fast. That is not a good object.

Thank you for this. I have to admit, I'm neither terribly sensitive to energies, nor a believer in the supernatural and the like (perhaps the first explains the second), so the statuette seemed perfectly innocuous to me. I had it sitting next to my laptop as I worked. I have to say that, if indeed it came with more sinister intentions than just being a simple gift, it wasn't really working its supposed charms on me - if my feelings last night about its giver were any indication. I suppose my largesse was really a mixture of obligation (since I had been given a token of sentiment, or so I assumed) and some guilt (the money doesn't mean all that much to me, but it might to Tao), rather than ensnared affections. If anything, Art seemed to be the unwitting recipient of any magical love hexes that were happening ..

That said, I did give the matter some thought, and came down in favour of your suggestion. What convinced me was reason, plain and simple: to be given such a gift by a bar boy on first acquaintance seems extremely unusual. In fact, it's the first time it's occurred to me, and that perhaps counts for something. I've been gifted presents by boys before, but they typically had some erotic dimension (such as a worn G-string); an object of mystical significance does seem odd, when I thought about it, especially from someone whose acquaintance i had just made ... Whether or not the gift came with strings attached, I decided that prudence was the best course of action here. I didn't want to bring the little guy with me on the plane, so I deposited him at the shrine next to my hotel, which honors a nine-headed naga. Next to the naga is a little spirit house, beautifully festooned with garlands of all colours, and little dancer figurines. I housed my ersatz pal there, and said a silent word to the spirit inhabiting the residence - if spirit it is - that I don't mean to intrude, but that it was best that my friend and I part ways. He needed a new home, and I would be most appreciative if the spirit in question could make some space for him. This solution doesn't involve the suggested temple or monk, but it was respectful. 

Thanks again for the pointer. It would not have occurred to me of my own accord, nor am I even sure if I buy all this, but discretion is the better part of valour, I'm sure.

[thaiophilus]

On a more prosaic mote, it is technically illegal to export Buddha images from Thailand without a licence.  Your statuette may be a monk, not a Buddha, but I wouldn't want to argue about it with officialdom.

[scott456]

You can put a cross on this monk statuette to suppress its bad energy. 🤭

[vinapu]

36 minutes ago, scott456 said:

You can put a cross on this monk statuette to suppress its bad energy. 🤭

too late, statuette left at altar and moistmango departed Thailand already. 

Why we assume she will emanate bad energy ?

[forrestreid]

Moistmango.

Thank you for your trip report,I really enjoyed reading it, it was good to have one done in nearly "real time".

Good trip reports are at the heart of the board and really draw people in. Having done a few myself, I know how long they can take to write. And you are a naturally gifted writer too, which make sit all the more pleasurable.

 

 

 

[Keithambrose]

On 10/1/2023 at 11:32 PM, PeterRS said:

I agreee totally with @macaroni21! On my very first visit to Tokyo several decades ago, I stayed in the huge Keio Plaza Hotel in west Shinjuku. I had come from 10 days in several cities in the USA where I had found myself caught out by the level of tips expected in restaurants and even by the hotels' room maids. Being European and used to 10% service charges or tips around that level automatically added to bills, the looks I'd been getting unless I added at least another 5% were extremely offputting. In one case even aggressive. By 15 or so years ago, many waiters would not move from your table if the tip was less than 20%.

I was immediately charmed by the politeness and civility of the Japanese receptionist as well as the cuteness of the bellboy who took me and my luggage up to my room. Like @macaroni21's friend, I offered a ¥100 coin as a small tip (then around 40 US cents). He drew back from me, clearly offended that I had offered him anything. It was only then I realised that tipping in Japan is a no-no. 

I fully understand that there is a problem in Thailand where prostitution is illegal - no matter how widespread it is. Most of us are well aware that a tip is in fact a fee, but we go along with the charade. I did find it more pleasant in the 1980s and 1990s when tips were " up to you." And I think i was a good tipper, especially when the assignation was particularly pleasureable (as almost all were)! Only once in so many dozens and dozens of offs did any boy ask for more - and he was from Screwboys about 20 years ago.

I had the same experience on my first visit, many years ago. I was staying at the Okura, then the grande dame of Tokyo hotels. Clients were more generous in those days! It was a hike to my room, so I thought I should be generous, but, as mentioned, the porter refused! Mind you I did have Kobe steak in the restaurant, amazing, could cut it with a fork!

[floridarob]

5 hours ago, vinapu said:

too late, statuette left at altar and moistmango departed Thailand already. 

We should make it a mission of this board that everyone passes there to check in and take a foto with it 😁

[vinapu]

3 hours ago, floridarob said:

We should make it a mission of this board that everyone passes there to check in and take a foto with it 😁

not me , I'm not superstitious and have no problem raising from bed , left leg first on Friday the 13th