Gay retirees the latest niche market for Thailand

[reader]

From Pattaya Mail

By Barry Kenyon

The pink pound or dollar could receive another boost in future as the world ages, according to a senior doctor. Dr Chaiwat Songsiriphan said that LGBTQ+ pensioners could flock to Thailand which has a good track record in gender diversity. He is the founder and medical director of Safe Clinic Bangkok which is a private sector HIV and STD clinic.

Addressing a conference on gay retirement, he said the country was already known for same-sex parties and nightlife entertainment, but needed more healthcare specialists. Brendan Berne, an Australian diplomat and economist, supported the idea for the medium term future and quoted a report that 18 percent of people born after 1997 identified as gay, a far bigger percentage than the baby boom generation (1946-1964). “LGBTQ retirement can be a new sector with Thai government support.”

Pattaya Mail asked a random group of current gay retirees about the proposition, but received a decidedly mixed response. “Actually many gay retirees have returned home to Europe or America because they fear the medical bills here once they fall sick,” said American citizen Charles Montgomery. He added that elderly foreigners were difficult or impossible to register with medical insurers, or found out too late they were not covered for a specific health condition requiring a surgical procedure.”

Several British retirees pointed to discrimination which dissuaded foreign settlement, in particular the frozen old age UK pension and reduction of front-line welfare services by the British embassy. Others observed that retirees were less interested in nightlife as they aged and were influenced more by the presence of friends or partners in particular locations. Most European expats had been here many years and were not being replaced as they died off.

Meanwhile, Thailand’s tourist and expat profile is changing with increasing reliance on Chinese and Asian arrivals as the number of Europeans and Americans falls. “The retiree markets of the future might not be English speakers which raises all sorts of questions,” concluded British expat David Sutherland who lives here with his life partner who is also from UK. “If one of us died, the other would likely return to Britain.”
 

[forky123]

Increasing Costs, Strength of baht, Visa restrictions and medical mean Thailand is off my list of places to retire. 

In truth the cost of medical cover and insurance companies finding reasons not to pay out is likely to restrict even holidays going forward. I pay a fortune for cover due to existing conditions but I always wonder, if I did need complex help or Medevac, whether they would pay out or if I would be left stranded.

[Boy69]

In the past the costs of medical bills in Thailand were very cheap but in the past years increased dramatically,  No wonder many gay retirees have returned home because they fear the medical bills here once they fall sick. 

[Olddaddy]

I read on some expat forums around $200 US a month for expats insurance and that's apparently the lower side of insurance!

Even if you "self I sure" will it be enough for major treatment if you ever need it?

I guess you would have to keep a residence in your home country and go back if needed for treatment

As for other reasons expats are not retiring to Thailand.....

 

[PeterRS]

1 hour ago, Olddaddy said:

I read on some expat forums around $200 US a month for expats insurance and that's apparently the lower side of insurance!

Even if you "self I sure" will it be enough for major treatment if you ever need it?

How much you pay for medical insurance is largely dependent on three factors: your age, the insurance company, and exactly what you want your policy to cover. First age. When you are young, a fully comprehensive medical policy is very inexpensive. Even by what used to be termed middle age (i.e. mid-40s to 60ish), premiums should not have risen significantly, the more so as your earning power will have increased. In my case, I had an amazing worldwide policy that, given my income, was perfectly affordable and covered everything with no deductions. By the time I reached 55, though, suddenly that insurer introduced a few deductibles and I discovered that the 5-yearly increases (which I believe are common with all medical policies) started to jump significantly. Stupidly, although I received a chart each year showing the cost of policies with various deductions and at various ages, I had not paid any attention to what I'd be paying when, for example, I hit 70. When I did, I realised I had no choice: I had to change to a less expensive policy. By this time I was based in Thailand. Even though I was still travelling extensively, I took out a new much less expensive policy more suited to Thailand with much less cover worldwide. To be safe I also took out an annual travel policy.

The killer as you get older is the 5-yearly increase. I am still paying a lot less than I was 10 years ago and that will continue. But at the next 5-year increase, I will probably have to increase the deductibles. With much less travelling, I have ditched the annual travel policy in favour of short term trip cover through a credit card.

Second. From comments made over the years on this and other chat rooms, there is clearly quite a difference between the policies which different companies offer. Some will require you to pay up front and then be reimbursed. Others will provide a list of hospitals where the company will first pay. Yet others seem to have a deal with any hospital when all you need is your insurance card. This needs investigation, especially for those retiring to a specific country.

Third. What do you want covered? My policy would allow outpatient treatment but at a 40,000 baht premium. Since I don't think i have ever paid anything like as much as that in any one year, I dropped that cover. I have also dropped dental cover. I'd love to have eye cover but that cannot be included due to pre-existing conditions. I have also allowed for a degree of co-insurance whereby I'll pay a small percentage of bills. All that brings down the cost. And having had no claims over the last ten years, I get a nice no-claims bonus!

Lastly, would I self insure? Never! Even though I am pretty healthy, I have had one cancer scare which turned out to be benign although i still need an annual MRI scan. As we get older, we become more liable for long term often very expensive treatment with things like strokes and cancer which has developed unnoticed.

Would I leave a decision on a medical policy until just before retirement? Again, definitely no. The danger with all policies is that in almost every case you will not get cover for pre-existing conditions. And some policies have a clause stating that a certain period must elapse after the policy is taken out (sometimes as much as three years) to prove that you have no pre-existing conditions. So if you are planning to retire away from your own country and it has no reciprocal health insurance benefits with your home country, my advice is simple: get medical insurance a.s.a.p.

[Olddaddy]

Great points 

But take into consideration not everyone retires on big financial income 

The Australian old age pension is approx 40 to 44,000 baht a month depending on exchange rates so try paying for insurance on that .

The only thing to do if you are Australian or NZ or from the UK is to keep a residence in your own country and go back and use the public system if you get very sick 

Secondly I'm told the insurance will take your money but the moment you have a illness eg heart attack they will go thru your medical history , ah yes we see Mr Smith you had high blood pressure back in 2007 , you didn't tell us about that etc 

Most older people have something like high BP or high cholesterol or something 

I get a full blood test every month , it's paid for on the government Medicare system .

The only thing is last visit my GP who I see monthly ( at a cost of $65 after rebate ) doesn't like to test for PSA prostate , once a year is enough he says 

I don't want to go off topic but does anyone know how you test the Prostate ? 

 

 

[Shonen]

How to test the prostate? Go to soi pot hole near third road in Pattaya. Find a well hung ladyboy and let plow you hard in your phat ass. If it feels great, your prostate is fine.

[Olddaddy]

1 hour ago, Shonen said:

How to test the prostate? Go to soi pot hole near third road in Pattaya. Find a well hung ladyboy and let plow you hard in your phat ass. If it feels great, your prostate is fine.

Ha ha funny you say that ,I just had my Filipino bf fuck me , I didn't really feel anything , I just pretended to make noises ,I'm not sure if my ass is wider because of the African cocks I had in Thailand, sorry too much info 😀🤣

[PeterRS]

3 hours ago, Olddaddy said:

The Australian old age pension is approx 40 to 44,000 baht a month depending on exchange rates so try paying for insurance on that.

The only thing to do if you are Australian or NZ or from the UK is to keep a residence in your own country and go back and use the public system if you get very sick 

But take into consideration not everyone retires on big financial income 

You are exceedingly lucky. Living overseas UK pensions are frozen from the moment you start withdrawing them. If you are now 80 and started drawing it down aged 65, although you paid your full national insurance contribution which provides for your pension, you would probably be getting around £95 per week - or less than 18,500 baht per month! No one living overseas can live on that. Had that hypothetical person been living in the UK, his pension would be close of triple that, I guess.

So if you think you might wish to live overseas in retirement, you have to start financial planning decades earlier so that you have a financial pot big enough, literally, to last a lifetime. That and/or some private pensions as well.

As for going back to use a public health system, that sounds all very well and good - but what happens if you have a serious coronary or a stroke and require major medical treatment before you can get near an aircraft to take you home? You're screwed (but not as you like to be screwed 😵)!

[spoon]

Why do most retiree solely depends on national pension scheme alone? Nationwide pension was never meant for you to be able to live a comfortable live, its for you to be able to live without falling into poverty. Anything more, than it will become unsustainable or would require a bigger chunk of contribution from your salary. 

So it would make sense to also have several other sources of income to support a good lifestyle, especially if you plan to continue to enjoy hiring boys from time to time. Not sure about what the options are in your own country but we have several annuity, private retirement scheme, as well as several low risk unit trusts or fixed deposits that can supplement your expenses. Those who have rental properties can also make use of that income if there is positive cash flow. Stock market maybe not so attractive at this point of time as retiree night not want to risk their nest so late in life. 

I might be simplifying things, if u have a quite stable, dividen generating funds, saving enough in those funds would make a great source of income as well. Let says  a fund that gives 5% dividen annually, if your monthly expenses are 50k baht, you would need at least 15million baht in the fund. Of course you would want to have more than that to cater for lower dividen, emergency expenses etc.

UK pension freeze on the other hand is unfair unless they already gave early notice, as early as possible, with option to opt out.

Also found this article about pension funds in other countries ranked. 

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/042914/top-pension-systems-world.asp

[vinapu]

39 minutes ago, spoon said:

 

UK pension freeze on the other hand is unfair unless they already gave early notice

I agree  it's unfair but I think their reasoning is that non-resident is not spending money locally but contributing to economy of his country of residence instead.

I think my doctor summarized neatly senior's  health  standing. When I told him ' doctor I used to see you every 3 years but now every 3 months " his answer was ' because you are old"

[spoon]

8 minutes ago, vinapu said:

I agree  it's unfair but I think their reasoning is that non-resident is not spending money locally but contributing to economy of his country of residence instead

If the pension fund takes a portion of money from sales tax or other form of taxes that only resident can contribute, i agree. But if the fund is totally funded by contibution, then it is unfair.

[scott456]

5 hours ago, PeterRS said:

You are exceedingly lucky. Living overseas UK pensions are frozen from the moment you start withdrawing them. If you are now 80 and started drawing it down aged 65, although you paid your full national insurance contribution which provides for your pension, you would probably be getting around £95 per week - or less than 18,500 baht per month! No one living overseas can live on that. Had that hypothetical person been living in the UK, his pension would be close of triple that, I guess.

So if you think you might wish to live overseas in retirement, you have to start financial planning decades earlier so that you have a financial pot big enough, literally, to last a lifetime. That and/or some private pensions as well.

As for going back to use a public health system, that sounds all very well and good - but what happens if you have a serious coronary or a stroke and require major medical treatment before you can get near an aircraft to take you home? You're screwed (but not as you like to be screwed 😵)!

The UK pension freezes once you start receiving it.  It has nothing to do with where you live, in UK or abroad. 

[PeterRS]

1 hour ago, vinapu said:

I agree  it's unfair but I think their reasoning is that non-resident is not spending money locally but contributing to economy of his country of residence instead.

Goodness knows what their reasoning is, but not contributing to the economy of the country granting the pension is plain nonsense. In the UK, all employees pay into what used to be called National Insurance. This is what guarantees two things - a pension from the relevant age and access to the National Health Service. This was always the case and was the case when i moved to work abroad. Because I was not sure if I might return to the UK or not, I continued to pay what were called voluntary National Insurance contributions every month. I continued to pay these in full until the 40 years of contributions was complete.

The problem is that at some point during the Thatcher and Blair governments, decisions were made that (1) those living overseas would have their pensions frozen from the first year of drawdown, and (2) access to the UK national health service similar to other UK citizens would be withdrawn after six years abroad.

What is so wrong about these new decisions is that they were never informed to those who were working overseas. I never had anything from any government department. Absolutely nothing. I had to find out for myself. And what is unfair is that I deliberately elected to pay the contributions into the National Insurance Fund as required by the government. So I paid for benefits I am no longer allowed. As for not spending money in the UK, I actually save the country money by having my own private health insurance and not being a drag on the National Health Service and quite a few other services available for older people. Besides, those people in receipt of basic pensions pay no tax. That argument is a false one.

1 hour ago, scott456 said:

The UK pension freezes once you start receiving it.  It has nothing to do with where you live, in UK or abroad.

Not true. If you are a UK citizen living in the UK and having contributed annually to the National Insurance scheme, your pension increases each year. It is only if you live outside the UK that your pension is frozen. The basic state pension for single men and women living in the UK in 2023/24 is £203.35. Those living overseas who started to draw down ten years ago receive £110.35.

[scott456]

41 minutes ago, PeterRS said:

Not true. If you are a UK citizen living in the UK and having contributed annually to the National Insurance scheme, your pension increases each year. It is only if you live outside the UK that your pension is frozen. The basic state pension for single men and women living in the UK in 2023/24 is £203.35. Those living overseas who started to draw down ten years ago receive £110.35.

OK then, the smart people will keep an address in UK and just long stay in Thailand.   That's quite easy to get around it. 

[Travellerdave]

About the state pension increase for UK citizens living overseas. Pensioners will receive increases if they are resident in the EC and a few other countries, but definitely not in Thailand, and surprisingly not in Australia, New Zealand and Canada. All very unfair as pointed out by PeterRS.

Another point is that pensioners who have no other income or resources apart from the state pension receive “pension credit” as a supplement. This does stop completely on becoming resident anywhere abroad.

Any UK citizen contemplating moving abroad  who has a fairly substantial income or assets should talk to an accountant with specialized knowledge as there are taxation implications as well as pension ones.

In addition there are jealous people only too ready to spill the beans to HMRC (HM Customs and Excise - like the IRS In the US) about those who seem to be bending the rules.

[vinapu]

1 hour ago, scott456 said:

OK then, the smart people will keep an address in UK and just long stay in Thailand.   That's quite easy to get around it. 

did you hear that:

25 minutes ago, Travellerdave said:

In addition there are jealous people only too ready to spill the beans to HMRC (HM Customs and Excise - like the IRS In the US) about those who seem to be bending the rules.

 

[PeterRS]

9 hours ago, scott456 said:

OK then, the smart people will keep an address in UK and just long stay in Thailand.   That's quite easy to get around it. 

Ok, just go and try it! There are such things as passports and the information about entry and exit to the UK is recorded and passed to more than one government organisation. In order to qualify for the full UK pension and access to the National Health Service facilities, you must stay in the country for a minimum of six months each year. Having an address is useless unless it is known you are staying there!

[PeterRS]

8 hours ago, Travellerdave said:

About the state pension increase for UK citizens living overseas. Pensioners will receive increases if they are resident in the EC and a few other countries

Thanks for that clarification. I had just assumed that as a result of Brexit, those living in the EC would be treated similar to those living in Thailand. Indeed, I cannot imagine why they are not.

[Travellerdave]

There are a lot of UK pensioners resident in Spain (Chasing the sun ) and France (relatively cheap country property) and to a lesser extent in Italy, Cyprus, & Greece. They benefit from a brexit deal with the EC.  However many there are suffering from the EC rule allowing only 90 days stay in any period of 6 months, resulting in the necessity to return to the UK periodically, where maybe they had  not retained a property.

Gay pensioners in Thailand have other benefits in addition to cheap property and sunny weather !.