Reduce electric train fares to 20 baht max?

[reader]

From Thai PBS World

The Department of Rail Transport believes that, if the Pheu Thai party’s policy to reduce the fare for electric train services in Bangkok and its suburbs to 20 baht, to travel the entire distance of a route, the government must allocate a special fund to subsidise the operators for their loss of revenues, as specified in the concession contracts.

The 20-baht electric train fare is one of the Pheu Thai party’s election manifesto promises.

According to a study, conducted by Thailand’s Development and Research Institute (TDRI), electric train fares in Thailand are about 20% higher than in Singapore, even though the per capita income of Singaporeans is much higher than that of Thais.

The average train fare for a trip in Bangkok is estimated to at 11% of the minimum wage, compared to 1.5% in South Korea, 2.9% in Japan or 3.5% in Singapore, according to TDRI.

One of the reasons cited for the expensive fares in Bangkok and its suburbs is the repeated collection of the entry or starting fare, at 16 baht, which is charged on commuters who travel a long distance from one section to another.

The Green Line runs from Mor Chit to On Nut and the Silom route from the national stadium to Taksin station. When the Mor Chit-On Nut route was extended to Bearing, commuters who travel from Mor Chit to Bearing will be charged the entry fare for the extended travel from On Nut to Bearing.

The entry fare charge for each section of the train route is in accordance with the concession contract, which is binding on BTS (Bangkok Mass Transit System) and BEM (Bangkok Express Metro) the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration and the Mass Transit Authority of Thailand (MRT).

If the new government, led by the Pheu Thai party, can realise this policy, to reduce the electric train fare to a maximum of 20 baht as pledged, it would boost the party’s popularity among people in the city.

============================

From The Nation

Business operators oppose 600-baht wage hike

The Pheu Thai-led government intends to press ahead with its election promise to raise the minimum wage to 600 baht within 4 years from the current range of 328-354 baht per day introduced in October 2022.

The party first introduced what is regarded as a populist policy back in 2011, when it launched the nationwide minimum wage policy of 300 baht per day. Then, like now, the private sector made its opposition known, citing political interference and uneven investment distribution nationwide.

According to Sanan Angubolkul, chairman of the Thai Chamber of Commerce (TCC), the proposed policy of raising the minimum wage to 600 baht per day and the monthly salary for bachelor's degree graduates to 25,000 baht would be a heavy burden for the private sector. Even though the wage increase would occur over 4 years, or by the year 2027, it would represent an adjustment of 40-60%, averaging a rise in costs of at least 10% per year.

They also believe that this spike in the minimum wage to 600 baht per day could deter foreign business investments in Thailand, pointing out that while such a substantial wage increase could attract labour, it would also impose a heavy burden on the private sector.

The government should first focus on achieving a strong economic performance, as a healthy economy would make the private sector more prepared for a suitable minimum wage increase that aligns with the economic conditions.

Furthermore, there is consensus that the wage increase should be appropriate for each region, and that efforts should be made to enhance workforce productivity concurrently. The new government should make well-rounded decisions in collaboration with state agencies, the private sector, and employees who benefit under the framework of the law, taking into account recommendations from provincial wage committees responsible for adjusting wages to match the local economy.

[vinapu]

1 hour ago, reader said:

 

They also believe that this spike in the minimum wage to 600 baht per day could deter foreign business investments in Thailand, pointing out that while such a substantial wage increase could attract labour, it would also impose a heavy burden on the private sector.

 

it's amazing that this sort of arguments is repeated world wide whenever there's talk about increasing minimum wage. Not that is does not have some merit but when eventually that rises are implemented promised wave of bankruptcies, flight of foreign investors  and general collapse of economy never happens. Extra money made by minimum wage earners return to economy before they say ' thank you boss for the rise"

[fedssocr]

capping fares at 20 baht might get some vehicles off the road, but they probably need to add some capacity as well since things are so crowded at peak times already

[vinapu]

1 hour ago, fedssocr said:

capping fares at 20 baht might get some vehicles off the road, but they probably need to add some capacity as well since things are so crowded at peak times already

correct although my post covid observation from 3 trips there this year is that Thais , like other nations, got fond of working from home and I did not see such crowds like in say 2019 that at times platforms at Siam were filled to capacity, scary sight or train left the airport already filled past capacity.

[PeterRS]

3 hours ago, fedssocr said:

capping fares at 20 baht might get some vehicles off the road, but they probably need to add some capacity as well since things are so crowded at peak times already

Part of the blame lies squarely with the Pheu Thai government run by Thaksin's sister. One of its election promises and first acts was giving subsidies to first time car buyers. This is estimated to have added bewtween 1 million and 1.5 million new cars on to the roads, the majority in Bangkok, but with no increase in the road network. Unsurprisingly, in 2019 the navigation company TomTom ranked Bangkok as the 8th most congested city in the world and the 4th highest in Asia.

One reason reducing fares is unlikely to work concerns Bangkok's limited road network. Whereas New York has a road to area ratio of 32% and even Tokyo's is 23%, Bangkok is way down in single digits at 8%. As the Bangkok Post reported in an article in October 2019 -

The city's low road-to-area ratio, in particular its dearth of secondary roads, has created "superblocks": large tracts of land without access to major roads and in the case of Bangkok, without public transportation. Residents have to traverse long distances via local roads before they could access the main road. Consequently, they have to pay extra to use another form of transport (such as a taxi or motorbike taxi) or walk long distances before they can access public transportation. A real estate developer once told me: "This is the problem of the first and last mile. It is one of the main reasons why people don't use public transportation." 
https://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion/1762349

Other issues that encourage private vehicles are that unlike most cities, (1) Bangkok has very low parking fees, and (2) BMA construction regulations permit a large number of parking spaces in new commercial buildings This is unlike most other major cities which specify a much smaller maximum number of spaces.

[fedssocr]

I'm sure all of those fuel subsidies encourage driving as well. 

But at least the public transit networks keep expanding. Compared to my first visit 17 years ago the network is huge and getting huger

[vinapu]

1 hour ago, fedssocr said:

 

But at least the public transit networks keep expanding. Compared to my first visit 17 years ago the network is huge and getting huger

hopefully one day trains reach Mor Chit bus station

[PeterRS]

3 hours ago, fedssocr said:

at least the public transit networks keep expanding. Compared to my first visit 17 years ago the network is huge and getting huger

I remember the days before the Skytrain and MRT when traffic was horrendous. I once read of a family from the southern part of the city driving north to Chiang Mai for Songkran. To beat the traffic, they set out at 8:00 pm the day before the eve of Songkran and were prepared to drive for 24 hours. By 08:00am the following morning they had not even reached Don Mueang. They gave up!

The problem is, as the Bangkok Post article I quoted in my earlier post points out, the public transport system is extending outwards. Nothing is being done about what the developer is quoted as calling "the first and last mile." I live almost exactly a mile from an MRT station and slightly less from a bus stop. For me that is hardly a problem as I rarely have to be elsewhere in the city around rush hours. I have a car park space at my condo but I do not want a car. If I had one I would get stuck in miserably choked roads between around 07:30 and 10:00am as the narrow road leading from near the expressway to the business district is packed with cars hoping to beat traffic on the larger main roads. It would take a good 20-30 minutes to travel the 300 meters or so just to get to that road. 

Add in the problem of flooding during the rainy season and many experts have stated the only solution to the inner city traffic problems is either to make it much more expensive to drive private vehicles (politically impossible in my view) or substantially increase the number of roads (practically nearly impossible in my view). 

[Keithambrose]

On 8/29/2023 at 2:45 PM, vinapu said:

correct although my post covid observation from 3 trips there this year is that Thais , like other nations, got fond of working from home and I did not see such crowds like in say 2019 that at times platforms at Siam were filled to capacity, scary sight or train left the airport already filled past capacity.

Why does SkyTrain only have 5 carriages, when most if not all stations were built for 5 carriages? Let alone the bottleneck at Saphan Thaksin!

[reader]

30 minutes ago, Keithambrose said:

 Let alone the bottleneck at Saphan Thaksin!

This 2017 article from the Bangkok Post describes what was suppose to be the solution to the problem: a $1 billion baht project to widen the bridge and rebuild the station with a dual track system by 2019. Inability to find a suitable contractor has been offered as the reason for the ongoing delay.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/1303859/b1bn-for-saphan-taksin-boost

[vinapu]

bottleneck it is although I don't find it much of nuisance but understand it may be  for people unfamiliar with arrangement and Bangkok geography. 

 

my biggest problem with Bangkok transit like probably for most of users is lack of fare or at least method of payment integration which with today's technology should be easy to implement. Even if various authorities can't  agree on division of fares collected , at least we should be able to pay for various operators using the same means, like Rabbit card for example. System would recognize if card was tapped on BTS, MRT, ARL or SRT lines and direct revenue accordingly.

Somebody tod me that in some Asian city one can even pay for small purchases in certain stores using transit car. Wouldn't it be convenient if one could pay for say,  coke and KY at 7/11 using Rabbit card ?

 

[fedssocr]

You can use the Rabbit card at some stores. I believe including 7/11. And if you started eating KFC you could use it there as well. And yes, many Asian cities allow you to use their IC cards in convenience stores and restaurants.

MRT's implementation of contactless payment should also be possible to implement on the others. That is spreading to systems all over the world.

[PeterRS]

8 hours ago, Keithambrose said:

Why does SkyTrain only have 5 carriages, when most if not all stations were built for 5 carriages? Let alone the bottleneck at Saphan Thaksin!

I think you probably meant "when most if not all the stations were built for six carriages." (do correct me if that is incorrect). I think the MRT stations could easily accommodate seven carriages. At Lumphini MRT station I once had to wait for four jam-packed trains to pass at rush hour before I could get on the next one. There have been calls for both the Skytrain and the MRT to increase the number of carriages but to absolutely no avail. 

I travel mostly outside rush hour. I guess the problem for both operators is that non-rush hour traffic does not merit six carriage trains as frequently I can get a seat. Could additional carriages be added during rush hours? I assume that is technically feasible.

[vinapu]

2 hours ago, fedssocr said:

You can use the Rabbit card at some stores. I believe including 7/11. And if you started eating KFC .

thank you , will check 7/11  next time I'm there, As for KFC it was just one time aberration on last day of trip. 

[Keithambrose]

6 hours ago, PeterRS said:

I think you probably meant "when most if not all the stations were built for six carriages." (do correct me if that is incorrect). I think the MRT stations could easily accommodate seven carriages. At Lumphini MRT station I once had to wait for four jam-packed trains to pass at rush hour before I could get on the next one. There have been calls for both the Skytrain and the MRT to increase the number of carriages but to absolutely no avail. 

I travel mostly outside rush hour. I guess the problem for both operators is that non-rush hour traffic does not merit six carriage trains as frequently I can get a seat. Could additional carriages be added during rush hours? I assume that is technically feasible.

I think the stations on SkyTrain are built for 5 coaches, and the trains have 4. Don't know about Metro. If I am going downtown from Sala Daeng in rush hour, I go back to National Statium, and get on train there, which is where it starts!

[vinapu]

6 hours ago, Keithambrose said:

I think the stations on SkyTrain are built for 5 coaches, and the trains have 4. Don't know about Metro. If I am going downtown from Sala Daeng in rush hour, I go back to National Statium, and get on train there, which is where it starts!

do what my friend here sometimes does on his way to and from work (long commute over 1 hr.one way ), carry a cane. Somebody will yield a seat for you

[reader]

15 hours ago, PeterRS said:

Could additional carriages be added during rush hours? I assume that is technically feasible.

Although it's indeed technically feasible, it's not practical. To accomplish it, each train has to return to the location where out-of-service cars are kept in order to add the extra cars. That means reduced frequency (or head time) as the schedule adjusts for the absence of those trains on the line. It also involves additional personnel costs to facilitate the change.

The solution (as PeterRS says above) is to acquire additional carriages.

[Keithambrose]

5 hours ago, vinapu said:

do what my friend here sometimes does on his way to and from work (long commute over 1 hr.one way ), carry a cane. Somebody will yield a seat for you

Yes, good idea. A friend of mine does that. Clearly white hair is not enough!

[Keithambrose]

3 hours ago, reader said:

Although it's indeed technically feasible, it's not practical. To accomplish it, each train has to return to the location where out-of-service cars are kept in order to add the extra cars. That means reduced frequency (or head time) as the schedule adjusts for the absence of those trains on the line. It also involves additional personnel costs to facilitate the change.

The solution (as PeterRS says above) is to acquire additional carriages.

In fact I seem to recall that  one or two of the SkyTrain stations, perhaps Saphan Thaksin, only have space for 4 carriages! That would  be typical Thai planning! Difficult to expand Saphan Thaksin due to  river, etc. 

[vinapu]

5 hours ago, Keithambrose said:

 Clearly white hair is not enough!

you got that right, I know from personal experience , LOL

[PeterRS]

31 minutes ago, vinapu said:

you got that right, I know from personal experience , LOL

Ditto! I am more than a year or two older than @vinapu (even though I may look younger 😵).  In all my years of riding the Skytrain, only once has anyone offered to give me a seat - and she was a middle-aged woman. I compare this to Taipei where I am frequently offered one of the seats for those with special needs of one sort or another. And no, I don't carry a cane! 🤣

[reader]

From Thai PBS World

฿20 Bangkok train fare can be implemented within 2 years

Transport Minister Suriya Juangroongruangkit offered his assurance today (Wednesday) that the 20-baht train fare for all mass transit systems in greater Bangkok will be implemented, but it may take about two years, as the government will have to negotiate with all the system operators.

Suriya said that the government is committed to a 20-baht flat-rate train fare as an urgent policy, but it cannot be implemented immediately, because several operators are involved, each with separate concession contracts.

For example, he cited the need for a common ticketing system, enabling commuters to travel on the different train systems operated by the Mass Rapid Transit Authority and the Bangkok Mass Transit System Public Company, or BTSC.

Suriya said that the 20-baht train fare for all the mass transit systems will not be mentioned specifically in the government’s policy statement, to be delivered to parliament by Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin on Monday, but it is part of the government’s logistics policy, which he is ready to explain to parliament.

 

[vinapu]

Bangkokians can only hope it will materialize

[Keithambrose]

Some hope, I fear!

[reader]

From Thai PBS World

Red Line train fare to be reduced to Bt20 by New Year

The State Railways of Thailand (SRT) board agreed yesterday (Thursday) to cut the fare on the Taling Chan-Bang Sue-Rangsit Red Line train service to 20 baht, from a maximum of Bt42, tentatively by the New Year.

SRT Governor Nirut Maneephan said today that the fare reduction will cost the SRT about 80 million baht in lost revenue annually, which means that the SRT will have to seek compensation from the government.

Currently, about 20,000 commuters are using this suburban train service each day, which is 25% of the 80,000 commuters originally estimated, said the governor, adding that he expects the number of commuters using the service will pick up by up to 20% each year.

The SRT will submit the board’s decision to the Transport Ministry, to be forwarded to the cabinet for approval, said the governor, adding that he expects the new train fare to become effective around the New Year.

Transport Minister Suriya Juangroongruangkit has previously said that the government will cut the train fares on the Red and Purple lines to 20 baht as a pilot project, as the government will have to negotiate with the operators of the other mass transit systems to cut the fare prices to 20 baht.