Gay farangs living on the breadline

[gayinpattaya]

17 minutes ago, Olddaddy said:

I guess my food bill would be more than 150b a day ! 😄

I did eat at SINT cafe a few mornings , and Dolce Vita but yes eating farang food would go over your budget if you have to scrimp by.

I would have to have Air Con though , wouldn't be able to live in a fan room.

 

I run my aircon 24/7. My bill is under 2k a month. Dolce Vita serve slop. There are many quality restaurants for the same price nearby. 

[Londoner]

Trying to understand now why I decided against relocation in 2004, despite the financial, sexual and romantic advantages, I come down to this one  decisive issue; I knew Pattaya only as a holiday destination, three or four times a year. What was so attractive to me, apart from the obvious, was the fact that it was different, very different, to my life in London. I decided that, were I an expat there, the changes in scenery, routine and sources of enjoyment, would no longer be as attractive as they were,  and indeed remain for  me as a tourist.

There are, of course, some disadvantages for someone enjoying his one and only gay LTR....but that's another story. As long as I am fit enough to travel comfortably, I remain confident I have made the right choice.

[Olddaddy]

38 minutes ago, Londoner said:

Trying to understand now why I decided against relocation in 2004, despite the financial, sexual and romantic advantages, I come down to this one  decisive issue; I knew Pattaya only as a holiday destination, three or four times a year. What was so attractive to me, apart from the obvious, was the fact that it was different, very different, to my life in London. I decided that, were I an expat there, the changes in scenery, routine and sources of enjoyment, would no longer be as attractive as they were,  and indeed remain for  me as a tourist.

There are, of course, some disadvantages for someone enjoying his one and only gay LTR....but that's another story. As long as I am fit enough to travel comfortably, I remain confident I have made the right choice.

If you had or did move there , what would you routine be like, would it be different to what you do in London 

Would you become bored with that lifestyle night after night bar hopping 

[Londoner]

I'm a Londoner;  the cultural, political and sporting life of the city is part of the very fabric of my body....but heaven knows how I'd cope without my regular trips to Thailand to be with P.

And  to enjoy chicken and cashew nuts, naturally.

[omega]

14 hours ago, fedssocr said:

Loneliness is a problem all over the world these days for people of all ages. But certainly culture and language issues exacerbate the isolation.

I wonder how much of the lonileness seen among older gay men today is due to the AIDS pandemic taking so many friends and lovers of that generation.

 

[vinapu]

25 minutes ago, Londoner said:

 

And  to enjoy chicken and cashew nuts, naturally.

+1

[vinapu]

2 minutes ago, omega said:

I wonder how much of the lonileness seen among older gay men today is due to the AIDS pandemic taking so many friends and lovers of that generation.

 

I think many people feeling lonely in Thailand would feel all the same if they stay at home. One either knows how to make friends or don't. 

Problem is if somebody  moved with loved one  and subsequently he/she passed away or relationship broke. Then  often somebody may feel stuck abroad with not much to keep him there but nothing to return to either.

[scott456]

6 minutes ago, omega said:

I wonder how much of the lonileness seen among older gay men today is due to the AIDS pandemic taking so many friends and lovers of that generation.

 

AIDS pandemic....that was long time ago.  People take PREPS now, and HIV+ people take cocktails drugs.  AIDS is not fatal anymore. 

[omega]

1 minute ago, scott456 said:

AIDS pandemic....that was long time ago.  People take PREPS now, and HIV+ people take cocktails drugs.  AIDS is not fatal anymore. 

It was 30-40 years ago.

We're talking about men today who 40 years ago were in their 20's and 30's.

One can always make new friends, but these friends do not have the benefit of experiencing your life with you. You can't replace a friend who shared your formative, prime years with you, who remembers those funny stories you'd rather forget. Who can remind you of all the good times you might forget. And vice versa.

It gets harder to forge those kinds of connections. And if one lost a lover? Grief can be painful and long lasting.

It's just a thought.

Another might be that they're a product of the changing times. Men who followed the pattern of society; find a girl, get married, have kids.... and soon found themselves at 50+, with the kids having flown the nest and an unhappy wife, and in a society that now widely accepting of gay people. They leave their life behind to try to capture their lost youth, severing ties with their old social networks... and failing to find a new one.

Just hypothesis

[omega]

19 minutes ago, vinapu said:

I think many people feeling lonely in Thailand would feel all the same if they stay at home. One either knows how to make friends or don't. 

Problem is if somebody  moved with loved one  and subsequently he/she passed away or relationship broke. Then  often somebody may feel stuck abroad with not much to keep him there but nothing to return to either.

Yes, I can see how farangs who move to Thailand to be with a Thai boy, and do not put the effort in to build/maintain a social network of friends may find themselves stuck and alone; with the choice seeming like to be lonely in a paradise, or lonely in greyer, colder climes.

[vinapu]

5 minutes ago, omega said:

 with the choice seeming like to be lonely in a paradise

what kind of paradise is that if you feel lonely ? Granted , some people may like to be but that's far from universal

[forky123]

26 minutes ago, scott456 said:

AIDS is not fatal anymore. 

Many thousands of people still die from AIDS. Treatments today mean HIV isn't the death sentence it once was but there are still 10's of thousands of deaths each year for many reasons.

[omega]

1 minute ago, vinapu said:

what kind of paradise is that if you feel lonely ? Granted , some people may like to be but that's far from universal

One that has sandy beaches, warm weather and lots of eye candy.

[vinapu]

3 minutes ago, omega said:

One that has sandy beaches, warm weather and lots of eye candy.

Ok, I was being selfish. I have no use of beaches and Thai weather is warm only in Dec and Jan , rest of year just being too hot. But about eye candy , yes I agree 8 days a week, 25 hours per day 

[omega]

30 minutes ago, vinapu said:

Ok, I was being selfish. I have no use of beaches and Thai weather is warm only in Dec and Jan , rest of year just being too hot. But about eye candy , yes I agree 8 days a week, 25 hours per day 

I'd suggest its a paradise compared to some drab and boring run of the mill town in the middle of nowhere, with winter bringing short days and cold weather that doesn't agree with old bones

 

But one mans paradise is anothers hell, I guess

[reader]

This thread has obviously touched a cord with many.

I'm among those who make multiple annual trips and don't like to be away from Bangkok for more than three months. Much of that has to do with a particular guy I've become close with over the past seven years.

There are other reasons of course that I believe many of us share. But as for living there, I couldn't do it for a variety of factors, the cost of health care at my age among them.

Of all the factors cited above, I think loneliness can be the most debilitating. How we choose to deal with it affects us physically and emotionally. 

[Olddaddy]

Yes the cost of healthcare 

How does one afford that living on the Australian pension of roughly 40k a month ?

Many I would say just don't have health insurance, and it is expensive and takes a big part of the budget .

 

 

[Boy69]

It's not only the Healthcare issue what happened if suddenly there are serious health problems who will take care of us and pay the costs in Thailand?

Back in the days when there was many bars in Sunee every time bar was closed it was because the falang owner died or had health problems and returned to his country to take care of himself. 

[Mavica]

9 hours ago, omega said:

I wonder how much of the lonileness seen among older gay men today is due to the AIDS pandemic taking so many friends and lovers of that generation.

I stopped counting the number of friends, and particularly sex partners that were lost to HIV/AIDS 40-years ago.  There were scores.  No exaggeration.  A generation wiped out where I played:  Chicago, NYC, Acapulco.  I was prolifically sexual; almost exclusively a top.  At the time, I would think: "How did I survive when so many others perished?"  "Why?"  Those of us sharing this experience in our lives had to start all over again - not only building new relationships, but being sexual - and it was so very depressing for a while. 

Now, once again, I'm at a point in my life when friends and acquaintances are at end-of-life or rapidly approaching - due to other ailments.  And the beat goes on. I try not to dwell on the past but look forward to the time I have left. 😁

My observation of guys from the USA, as one example, who move abroad is that they typically do so woefully unprepared.  The inability to communicate in the new county language is the first challenge.  Foreigners who are non-communicators almost always pay more for everything - and are the most frustrated.  Even if you can communicate, you'll likely pay more than a local.  How do you make friends, develop relationships if you can't communicate? Then there is the challenge of trying to understand the culture of where you land, Thailand or elsewhere.  Many are indifferent and underestimate the importance of understanding / learning the cultural norms and how they differ from where we come from - how they're so very important ... before we arrive in the new country.  As Dorothy said, "We're not in Kansas anymore".  And ... there's the issue of fragile funding; under capitalization. 

Lacking the ability to communicate in the local language, indifference to the culture, financial insecurity and the lack of a ready support network are prescriptions for frustration, stress and depression.  It might be paradise, but what good is being in paradise if you cannot enjoy it? 

Not all is lost, though, because those of you who successfully live in Thailand, and other "foreign countries" are a testament to the fact that such a transition can be accomplished - happily.  Not without effort, but it can be done.

[Marc K]

21 minutes ago, Mavica said:

Lacking the ability to communicate in the local language, indifference to the culture, financial insecurity and the lack of a ready support network are prescriptions for frustration, stress and depression.

So true. Those who try to remake their new environment as "Pattaya on the Thames" or "Jomtien on Miami Beach" are going to fail. I have friends who have lived in Thailand for 20+ years and still speak almost no paasaa thai. What were they thinking? How many foreigners can come to the West and succeed without learning the local language? Do they have myopia or what?

[fedssocr]

I think you can get by in Bangkok without speaking Thai. I follow Global Travel Mate on Youtube. He is Dutch and has been in Bangkok for something like a decade. He speaks almost no Thai. But apparently he has a successful real estate business. Not exactly sure how such a business qualifies for a business visa but I guess it does.

 

[kokopelli3]

I have lived in Pattaya for years and don't speak Thai other than a few words; same with many of my friends. I do have one friend who studies Thai every day and can read it but never speaks a word! 

[PeterRS]

 

There are other reasons of course that I believe many of us share. But as for living there, I couldn't do it for a variety of factors, the cost of health care at my age among them.

Of all the factors cited above, I think loneliness can be the most debilitating. How we choose to deal with it affects us physically and emotionally. 

I cannot imagine living in a 'new' country and ending up lonely and bored, no matter how attractive some of its other benefits. Earlier in the thread, @omega mentioned the effect of AIDS on the psyche of those who lived through that pandemic at a time when friends, acquaintances and sometimes lovers died horrible deaths while those of us sexually active at that time managed to escape. My guess is that almost all have managed to move on despite the losses and the feelings of survivor guilt. I know of two, though, who were never able to shake off the tragedy of those years, such was the effect on their personal lives. One could never form another close relationship, and he himself lived for another 27 years.

Thankfuly I have quite a full life. When on my own, as is probably obvious from the length of my posts 😵 (!) I spend quite a lot of time writing. This has resulted in three books so far with a fourth hopefully about to find a publisher. They don't make more than beer money, but it's a hobby that I have found surprisingly interesting and absorbing.  

I suggest one problem for retirees in Thailand (and I mean in general rather than specifically in Pattaya) is that our visas not only prohibit any form of paid work, they prohibit all types of unpaid work - e.g. for charities. I would love to donate some of the skills I have learned in life to help a charity. That seems to me not just a productive use of time but a way of getting to know more people, some of whom might become friends.

As for healthcare, that is a real problem for anyone who did not take out a policy prior to age 65. Even then, though, apart from small annual increases, the major jump every five years do raise premiums very substantially. I did have to downgrade and pay less for leser benefits. I have started using the public King Chulalongkorn Hospital where costs are a fraction of the private hospitals. That by no means reduces the quality of care. A doctor I occasionally see spends three days a week at KCH and the rest of the week at Bumrungrad. I recently required a retina check. The consultant I saw was a Professor of Retinology who works at KCH just two evenings every fortnight. Both doctors were excellent.

But anyone who is living here without some form of health policy is playing a dangerous form of roulette IMHO.

[Shonen]

I split the year between USA and Pattaya. I’m lonely in the USA, but I prefer the food and weather. It’s much more fun in Thailand, but might not be as much fun if full time.

I kept my health insurance in the USA, which I can use in Thailand (. Haven’t used it there yet).  It can be a little bit boring in Thailand at times. I filled much time furnishing my condo, playing pool, and enjoying the bars. Only drink on Saturday nights. Over drinking can be a problem for some.

[scott456]

3 hours ago, PeterRS said:

But anyone who is living here without some form of health policy is playing a dangerous form of roulette IMHO.

What type of health insurance do you have? A U.S health insurance that covers treatments overseas?