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Olddaddy

Gay farangs living on the breadline

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10 hours ago, Mavica said:

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that expats residing in Thailand, no matter the visa category, are required to demonstrate economic solvency (i.e., verifiable monthly / annual income or other financial assets).  True?  If so, then the destitute expats being referred to would appear be in Thailand in violation of the law / regulations.

Unfortunately there are ways around this .

Visa agents who provide a service so you have the required 800k at the time of the application 

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12 minutes ago, Olddaddy said:

Yes ,I often wonder how old age pensioners who don't have the government housing can afford to live in Australia on that amount (around 44k) especially in Sydney.

Agreed. Please spare a thought, though, for pensioners of the UK government. When I left the UK decades ago, I was promised a full government pension if I continued my contributions to what was then called the National Insurance Fund whilst overseas. I did so. I completed the full payment over the 30 or so years I spent abroad. And what do i discover has happened without any government department informing me? If you live overseas for 6 years or more, your pension is frozen from the time you start taking it! Anyone with a UK pension taken out since around 2009 will probably not have suffered much with inflation so low. But they will certainly be hit hard now.

5 minutes ago, musgrave said:

A payment to a visa agent will get you a visa without having the financial requirements - I agree with what you say but as one acquaintance said to me once you get the stamp in your passport you are surely here legally

I believe this is less true now. As I understand the law, agents cannot certify a pension. Only the relevant Consulate can do that. So agents usually opted for the 800,000 annual route. But with those funds having to be held in an account for a minimum of 2 months prior to application and to remain there for a minimum of 3 months thereafter, I suspect it is now more crook Immigration officials who are bribed to look the other way.

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39 minutes ago, asdsrfr said:

Felt the same thing when I visited there the first time over 20 years ago as well as more recently. I see a lot of Farangs sitting at a bar alone with a sad, blank look on their face. To be sure there are others out that seem to be enjoying themselves but I wonder what happened to those people that ended up in Pattaya seeming so sad and alone.

I know your not only talking about gay expats as such and this is both gay & straight, but despite there being a lot of boys for hire etc and gay bars there is still...... Lonilessness!!!

Paying a money boy for a hour and he is gone then the expat sit in their bedsitter watching tv or whatever., It was exciting at first then after awhile it just becomes another business transaction between you and the moneyboy 

The next day the same 

I guess if your life is the same in Sydney or Manchester then it's better to be in Thailand,rather than be in cold England 

But if you have friends ,hobbies etc wherever you come from   your going to leave all that behind  to live in a  studio in jomtien hiring money boys and sitting at beer bars staring at people going by ,you will soon tire & getting bored everyday , so careful thinking going from one life to another 

Friends & family are not around ,sure WhatsApp video but not the same ,

I guess as an expat you need a hobby , something to fulfil your days ,other than bars and money boys ,your going to tire of that , your going to have to make friends, 

unfortunately some in places like the flybird & Nirun condo can be seen early morning drinking alcohol 

boredom and Lonilessness can creep in after awhile 

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20 minutes ago, Finnseventy said:

Interesting topic, so how much of an income would you say you need to retire in Thailand now, excluding accommodation?

Look , I met many farangs in Pattaya who were happy in 50k a month 

One man who I spoke to regularly in a bar was on the Australian pension of 44k a month and told me he still saved money 

He rented a studio in jomtien and told me he cooked all his own meals.

I didn't ask him how much rent he paid and he didn't offer ,I imagine the 10k mark???

Apparently bought most ingredients from the markets and cooked himself ,had a hotplate in his room ,he had vegetables with him when I was talking to him and doesn't buy at supermarket,he was complaining Foodland at jomtien were robbers so never shops there

he filled his day with Netflix he told me ,mind you he was in his early 70's .

Not sure the cost of Netflix in Thailand but I did notice him use the bars wifi so maybe he just buys a drink to use the wifi 😄

He hadn't been to a Go Go bar in years because of prices 

He seemed to frequent the same bars so may have got a discount perhaps,he seemed to go home at around 8pm to

He told me over the course of a few meetings he bought used shoes from the bukhao market for 100 baht and t shirts 40 b and they looked good too I must say 

He goes to the sunday markets up on some busy road Thappraya?

Buys all his food from some markets ,he told me there was some French bread shop up near the traffic lights in jomtien that sold 2 bread in the evening for one price ,and he buys chicken and rice for 40 baht so anyway obviously he knows how to survive 

I guess he has the requirements of 800k in the bank 

So he said to me he spends less than 44k a month 

So that's his life I guess ,living in a studio room and it may suit him , he looked happyhe says he sits on the small balcony every morning with his coffee 

But me , I probably would get bored during the day ,wake up in the morning go to the gym ,then what ,?

Watch Netflix like he does ?

Whether that is a life for all of us I don't know ,I guess it's better than living in Australia or the UK though 

 

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5 hours ago, Olddaddy said:

Unfortunately there are ways around this .

Visa agents who provide a service so you have the required 800k at the time of the application 

I would say, fortunately there are ways around this!  Just because someone does not have or wish to deposit 800,000 in an account does not mean they are destitute. The 800,000/annual is about equivalent to the monthly 65,000 required for a retirement extension. At one time it was possible to get a certificate from your Embassy showing that your monthly income was 65K or more  and no problem. Then many Embassies would no longer certify that even though their citizens met the requirement. (Some Embassies still do this certification). The  visa agents now provided a service to those who do not have or do not wish to deposit 800,000 in an account. Citizen still can opt for the 65 K monthly deposits but that can be tricky at times so easier to use an agent.

 

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55 minutes ago, kokopelli3 said:

The  visa agents now provided a service to those who do not have or do not wish to deposit 800,000 in an account. 

I really wonder how true this now is. Until about 4 years ago, the 800,000 minimum had to be in the bank account for 3 months. Immigration demanded a copy of the bankbook updated on the date of application to check this. (All major banks have ATM machines in the basement at the immigration Department for this purpose). I can't imagine visa agents would be prepared to cough up 800,000 for 3 whole months. If I am correct, then it must have been crook Immigration officers who turned a blind eye to this mandatory requirement in return for a substantial brown envelope.

But the situation now is even more of a problem for those taking the 800,000 route. I made a slight error in an earlier post. I believe now the requirement is that 800,000 must be in the bankbook for 2 complete months prior to the date of appication PLUS 3 months following that date. Thereafter the amount goes down to a mandatory 400,000 for 7 months. In the first year, a retiree can obviously get away without those 3 additional months. But if another year is required, the total of 5 months is essential. Again I cannot see agents lending retirees that amount of cash for such a long period, but perhaps I am wrong.

I think the big concern for all existing retirees is that the amounts of 65,000 monthly/ 800,000 annually have been in place for many years. Given that Thailand Elite is raising its fees by at least 50% and some senior Immigration officers have been calliing for higher payments from retirees, how likely is it that these amounts will continue to remain at these levels? The outrage and anger shown by existing Elite members when told existing benefits would be unilaterally withdrawn did result in the Elite organisation facing an embarrassing climb down. As one who took the 800,000 route prior to becoming an Elite basic member 3 years ago, I think I might now be concerned. No amount of retiree outrage will change a future government decision if that raises annual retiree payments, of that I am 99% sure.

 

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This also highlights the appalling level of UK pensions. Like a lot of members here, I worked in the UK all my life, good job, and paid literally millions in Insurance contributions. I was happy, just about, to pay these, but my state pension after all that is £791pm, even after the recent inflation rise. Around THB 34,000. 

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1 hour ago, Keithambrose said:

This also highlights the appalling level of UK pensions. Like a lot of members here, I worked in the UK all my life, good job, and paid literally millions in Insurance contributions. I was happy, just about, to pay these, but my state pension after all that is £791pm, even after the recent inflation rise. Around THB 34,000. 

Nobody can live on that kind of pension by itself, without other means of income or savings.

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The blush on the rose of being in paradise isn't long lasting for many expats, no matter the country - particularly if the expat hasn't prepared himself for the cultural and language differences - and if financial insecurity circles overhead.  One can only spend so much time in a bar offing MB / garotos, cruising public spaces, surfing social media / sex sites.  There's more to life. 😁  And if the expat doesn't have a partner or a steady, loneliness and depression can and will set-in. 

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Thailand I knew first 20 years ago could be an option for retirement you could do monthly visa run for years easily,  no restrictions on entertainment venues at all and everything was ridiculously cheap .nowadays everything changed completely lots of beurocracy,  capricious government decisions, many restrictions on entertainment venues , restricted immigration policy and Thailand is not cheap as it used to be.in these conditions it's not a retirement option for me.

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I honestly don't know what these old folk spend their money on? 
Rent? 10k? Ok... about right. 
Food? well, 50b for a quick meal. 100b for a nice one. Do that each day is 4500 a month. 
Bills? 1500 a month if your not living in a freezer.
Let's round that up to 17000. 
Clothes, Lazada, home supplies, clothing, 3000? 

So? 20k....
If you want to eat out at a western restaurant every night, you are screwed. But when in Rome.....
Expat life can be very reasonable. I admit I spend a lot more, but I could live on 30-35k if I needed, and still have boys. 
As said before, boys are cheaper when you are a known expat. They contact you! 


 

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Yes , sometimes I tend to get the impression that farangs think by somehow moving to Thailand will solve all their problems being lonely.

Some move for a boyfriend only to fall out with them later , then the boredom of hiring money boys just becomes a business transaction and not exciting anymore as you negotiate prices " how much you pay me "  becomes mundane 

 

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7 hours ago, gayinpattaya said:

I honestly don't know what these old folk spend their money on? 
Rent? 10k? Ok... about right. 
Food? well, 50b for a quick meal. 100b for a nice one. Do that each day is 4500 a month. 
Bills? 1500 a month if your not living in a freezer.
Let's round that up to 17000. 
Clothes, Lazada, home supplies, clothing, 3000? 

So? 20k....
If you want to eat out at a western restaurant every night, you are screwed. But when in Rome.....
Expat life can be very reasonable. I admit I spend a lot more, but I could live on 30-35k if I needed, and still have boys. 
As said before, boys are cheaper when you are a known expat. They contact you! 


 

I guess my food bill would be more than 150b a day ! 😄

I did eat at SINT cafe a few mornings , and Dolce Vita but yes eating farang food would go over your budget if you have to scrimp by.

I would have to have Air Con though , wouldn't be able to live in a fan room.

 

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