Biden to sign strategic partnership deal with Vietnam

[reader]

From Thai PBS World

U.S. President Joe Biden will sign a strategic partnership agreement with Vietnam during a state visit to the Southeast Asian country in mid-September, Politico reported on Friday, citing three people with knowledge of the deal’s planning.

The agreement will allow for new bilateral collaboration that will boost Vietnam’s efforts to develop its high technology sector in areas including semiconductor production and artificial intelligence, Politico said.

A source familiar with the plans told Reuters on Friday that Biden was weighing a September trip to Vietnam.

Biden said earlier this month that he would be traveling to Vietnam “shortly” because the country wanted to elevate its relationship with the United States and become a major partner.

The White House has not confirmed plans for the trip.

At a meeting in April, Vietnamese Prime Minister Pham Minh Chinh and U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken expressed a desire to deepen ties as Washington seeks to solidify relations with partners in Asia to counter an increasingly assertive China.

Officials have not said what the closer relationship might entail, but experts say it could include increased military cooperation and U.S. weapon supplies.

By Reuters 

[Moses]

He should begin his visit with a US apology to the people of Vietnam for the deaths of millions of Vietnamese, for the deliberate contamination of the jungle with dioxins, which has disabled hundreds of thousands.

Well, just think: the US is collaborating with the communist regime! McCarthy is now spinning in a coffin like a propeller. What bargains with conscience Democrats just don’t make ....

For example, to visit  in Saigon the museum of victims of the war, kneel down and apologize.

[alvnv]

А Россия опять в жопе

Meanwhile, Russia’s still in a sh*thole

[KeepItReal]

1 hour ago, Moses said:

He should begin his visit with a US apology to the people of Vietnam for the deaths of millions of Vietnamese, for the deliberate contamination of the jungle with dioxins, which has disabled hundreds of thousands.

Well, just think: the US is collaborating with the communist regime! McCarthy is now spinning in a coffin like a propeller. What bargains with conscience Democrats just don’t make ....

For example, to visit  in Saigon the museum of victims of the war, kneel down and apologize.

And the British should apologize to India and South Africa, the Chinese should apologize to the Russians and Tibet and and and... How far do we go back? I'd rather see leaders learn from history than live in the past. 

[Moses]

2 hours ago, alvnv said:

Meanwhile, Russia’s still in a sh*thole

Dear, thread is about Biden and Vietnam. Please stop flaming.

[khaolakguy]

If the Vietnamese are happy to go forward on this basis they don’t need advice from someone who supports the Russian invasion of Ukraine!

[Moses]

30 minutes ago, khaolakguy said:

If the Vietnamese are happy to go forward on this basis they don’t need advice from someone who supports the Russian invasion of Ukraine!

Why you are talking about Vietnamese? I wrote about US and about Alzhaimer-Biden. And that isn't advise.

[fedssocr]

Obviously the Vietnamese have plenty of historical and current day beefs with China. So the enemy of my enemy... 

[alvnv]

7 hours ago, Moses said:

Dear, thread is about Biden and Vietnam. Please stop flaming.

Dorogaya, you seem not to have liked my short response to your post, so let me expand on it:

Russia has hundreds more years of atrocities compared to the US, including those it is committing as we speak, both within and outside of its borders. And it is yet to apologize for any of them. So, get the logs out your own eyes before you point out specks in those of others.

I welcome the fact that Vietnam is open to enhancement of its relations with the US, for the sake of peoples of both nations.

6 hours ago, Moses said:

Why you are talking about Vietnamese? I wrote about US and about Alzhaimer-Biden.

The thread is about Vietnam, or would you rather have Vietnam without Vietnamese? So much like Russia’s policies towards its neighbors…

[Moses]

10 hours ago, alvnv said:

Russia has hundreds more years of atrocities compared to the US, including those it is committing as we speak, both within and outside of its borders. And it is yet to apologize for any of them. So, get the logs out your own eyes before you point out specks in those of others.

Are you ready to show me any memorial museum of genocide by Russians?

What I see: museum of genocide of Jewish, museum of genocide of Polish (by the way: genocide by Ukrainians), museum of genocide of Vietnamese by Americans.

So: your attempts to say some bullshit about Russia is just attempt to make distraction from fact what US state is bloody state with bloody hands: Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Vietnam, Libya, 2 times Iraq and so on.

[reader]

Please don't turn this into another "brink of war" debacle.

[Moses]

9 minutes ago, reader said:

Please don't turn this into another "brink of war" debacle.

Right. I told the same from the begin

18 hours ago, Moses said:

Dear, thread is about Biden and Vietnam. Please stop flaming.

but some people are too much poisoned by propaganda.

[alvnv]

1 hour ago, Moses said:

Are you ready to show me any memorial museum of genocide by Russians?

What I see: museum of genocide of Jewish, museum of genocide of Polish (by the way: genocide by Ukrainians), museum of genocide of Vietnamese by Americans.

So: your attempts to say some bullshit about Russia is just attempt to make distraction from fact what US state is bloody state with bloody hands: Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Vietnam, Libya, 2 times Iraq and so on.

There are museums of Russian/Soviet occupation in the Ukraine, Georgia, the Baltic states. The rest of them will pop up as others rid themselves of the Russian “friendship” which, in fact, is pure terror…

as for the Jewish genocide, don’t forget that the word Pogrom entered many languages, including English, directly from Russian: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogrom

 

[Moses]

1 hour ago, alvnv said:

There are museums of Russian/Soviet occupation in the Ukraine, Georgia, the Baltic states

Yeah, after Russian army memorial looks like this:

Norway:

 

Again Norway:

 

And again Norway:

 

Bulgaria:

 

Germany:

 

Again Germany:

 

Poland:

 

Again Poland:

 

Czech Rep.

 

France:

 

Hungary:

 

Even in Africa. RCA:

 

And after Americans we see this:

 

Hiroshima, Japan, in memory of victims of American nuclear bombing:

 

Nagasaki, Japan, in memory of victims of American nuclear bombing:

 

Museum in Ho Chi Minh, Vietnam:

[reader]

It's sad, Moses. You have vast knowledge of SE Asia which is evident when you write about your experiences there. But you seem intent on trying to infect this board with the same discord that you've created on your own board.

[Moses]

4 hours ago, reader said:

It's sad, Moses. You have vast knowledge of SE Asia which is evident when you write about your experiences there. But you seem intent on trying to infect this board with the same discord that you've created on your own board.

Look on the tread who said "Russia" first.

On my board that mentioned topic was started not by me, by the way.

 

On 8/19/2023 at 6:16 PM, alvnv said:

Meanwhile, Russia’s still in a sh*thole

Speaking about SE Asia, have you been in the Museum of victims of war in Ho Chi Minh?

[alvnv]

13 hours ago, Moses said:

but some people are too much poisoned by propaganda.

Yes, I’m glad you’re acknowledging that you’ve been brainwashed.
 

3 hours ago, Moses said:

Look on the tread who said "Russia" first.

No, you did not. However, instead of welcoming the fact that the nations of Vietnam and the US are able to put the tragedies of war behind them and move forward with the partnership that has a potential to bring them closer and benefit both of them, you started chiding democrats for collaborating with a communist regime! Guess what, Nixon was not a democrat and he resumed the relationship with China, despite the fact that it had a communist regime.

Russia’s love affair with republicans is misguided at best. Really, it’s all about  Trump. However, historically, true republicans have always been much more hawkish and anti-Russian than democrats. Trump is not a true republican and various fractions within the Republican Party will point that out to you. Trump is an anomaly. He has destroyed the Republican Party and his movement will be entered as the pages of shame in the US political history - much like McCarthyism has been.

I am neither condoning, nor justifying any atrocities that the US has committed. I am fully aware of them and with my voice I try to influence political processes. That’s more than I can say about quite a few Russians in relations to their country.

[Mavica]

32 minutes ago, alvnv said:

Russia’s love affair with republicans is misguided at best.

I think it's a mistake to assume Russians, other than the nation's current leadership, are enamored with either of the US political parties or party leaders.  

[PeterRS]

On 8/19/2023 at 10:16 PM, alvnv said:

А Россия опять в жопе

Meanwhile, Russia’s still in a sh*thole

And that has precisely what to do with Vietnam now? Nothing! 

[PeterRS]

On 8/19/2023 at 11:00 PM, KeepItReal said:

And the British should apologize to India and South Africa, the Chinese should apologize to the Russians and Tibet and and and... How far do we go back? I'd rather see leaders learn from history than live in the past. 

Vietnam remains very much in the present in most of our memories. Much of the rest is history, a tiny part of which is slowly being rectified through formal apologies and, in the UK at least, the tearing down of statues devoted to those who made fortunes from the slave trade.

As for Vietnam, it is fact that both Roosevelt and Truman did not respond to Ho Chi Minh's urgent requests by letter to ensure the French did not return to continue its brutal regime in post-war Vietnam. After all, the USA was staunchly anti-colonial and Ho was a nationalist. Yet the USA did not put pressure on France as it did on other colonial countries. Considering the Vietnamese had been fighting on the sie of the Allies in WWII, this was essentially a major slap in the face. The war which folowed was essentially between the North Vietnamese and the French, one which the French lost miserably. After the Geneva Accords splitting country in the middle, the USA retained its influence over South Vietnam whilst Ho was further thrown into the Chinese and Russian camps. The US disaster in Vietnam was the result of failures in the Sate Department, a failed foreign policy, incompetence at a military level and a resultant war which was the result of a lie to Congress.

Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos may now be at peace. But many of the older generations remember the horrors of those years. All based on a false premise - the domino theory. Should Iraq be added to the list? Another country first supported by the US who then turned against it on grounds which were at best spurious, resulting in a country which remains a disaster and gave rise to one of the most evil sects in ISIS. 

[reader]

6 hours ago, PeterRS said:

After all, the USA was staunchly anti-colonial and Ho was a nationalist. Yet the USA did not put pressure on France as it did on other colonial countries. Considering the Vietnamese had been fighting on the sie of the Allies in WWII, this was essentially a major slap in the face. The war which folowed was essentially between the North Vietnamese and the French, one which the French lost miserably. After the Geneva Accords splitting country in the middle, the USA retained its influence over South Vietnam whilst Ho was further thrown into the Chinese and Russian camps. The US disaster in Vietnam was the result of failures in the Sate Department, a failed foreign policy, incompetence at a military level and a resultant war which was the result of a lie to Congress.

That's a brief but accurate description of the course of events. In the end, the US ended by supporting the wrong side. The south had a history of extreme and consistent corruption at the top. That's not to say that corruption has vanished in the intervening 50 years but the worst perpetrators are getting jailed at a fairly good clip. Some of the credit for the normalization of relations between the countries can e traced to the efforts of John McCain and John Kerry, both veterans of the war who went on to the senate and pushed for recognition. McCain, who was imprisoned after being shot down over Hanoi and parachuting into Lake Truc Bach, was the most powerful voice. At the spot where he was pulled from the water, this sculpture stands.

[PeterRS]

I totally agree about John McCain. That man was a hero and it is sad that he seems almost forgotten now. Or is that merely the view of one who does not live in the USA?

I think I should clarify one point in my earlier post. The reason the USA did not put pressure on France to stay out of Indo-China after WWII was partly a due to the French leader, General de Gaulle. He leaned heavily on Truman by suggesting that if France was not permitted back to its Asian colonies it would allow Soviet troops to enter France and extend Soviet influence to the Atlantic. That would have been anathema to the Washington establishment and so it bent to the lesser of two evils, even though de Gaulle was a master bluffer.

Much as I love the mix of French and Vietnamese cuisine and some of the architecture, we should be in no doubt about the atrocities committed by the French. @Moses mentiones the Museum in HCM. Everyone visiting Hanoi should spend some time at the Museum there. Chilling!

 

[reader]

John McCain is more of an unknown to younger Americans but older generations still honor and respect both his physical and political courage. A maverick in every sense of his life, McCain was true to his ideals to the very end. When the terminally-ill senator cast the deciding vote that preserved the Affordable Care Act in 2017,  he defeated Trump's attempt to relegate Obama Care to the dustbin of history. Had he not resisted ll attempts by his party to vote with Trump, millions of low income citizens would today be without health care coverage. He truly understood and was inspired by the best traditions of his office.

He also embraced the grace of being both forgiven and forgiving.

[vinapu]

On 8/20/2023 at 8:48 AM, Moses said:

Are you ready to show me any memorial museum of genocide by Russians?

 

it's only because your country never came to terms with atrocities of Stalinist era. Russian 's victims were mainly other Russians

[Tomtravel]

Red terror is normalized in Russia since Putin came to the power, why should they build memorials?
Putin has closed organizations who collected data about crimes and victims of the communism.
And holodamor in Ukraine - this is now replicated even in larger scale by the terrorist in Kremlin.