Triggering Memories?

[PeterRS]

Doing some very late Spring cleaning this morning, I came across a Bangkok Gay Guide for June 2007. I believe these were printed monthly and given out free in most of the go-go bars and other gay venues. Usefully Bangkok was split up into various sections to make it easier to find venues.Equally usefully each sub-map has a box with the main venues listed in them. It is not always easy to locate them but if you look closely they are there.

I have tried to take photos of several with my phone. I see that Soi Twlight was listed under its proper name, Soi Pratuchai. Sad to see how many are closed. Yet some still survive even if not in the same locations.

[TotallyOz]

Cutey and Beauty! Loved it.

[10tazione]

Thai Rainbow Archives Collection

https://eap.bl.uk/collection/EAP128-1

[khaolakguy]

41 minutes ago, 10tazione said:

Thai Rainbow Archives Collection

https://eap.bl.uk/collection/EAP128-1

What an amazing resource! Thanks for the link.

[Olddaddy]

I remember a lot of these gay booklets in every gay hotel room back in the early 2000's

I recall in the late 90's? A Australian guy being arrested in Bangkok for printing them 

 

[PeterRS]

11 hours ago, Olddaddy said:

I recall in the late 90's? A Australian guy being arrested in Bangkok for printing them 

There were indeed quite a few of these booklets, often with interesting information. But with respect I think your memory is not quite accurate regarding the Australian taken to Court. If we are referring to the same incident, there is an excellent report of it here - https://web.archive.org/web/20050606015724/http:/www.yawningbread.org/arch_2005/yax-435.htm 

For those not interested in wading through a very long article, the bare bones were these. Some may recall a travel company in the early 2000s named Utopia Tours with its office based in the Tarntawan Hotel (it actually started business in 1998). It organised gay-themed tours to various parts of Asia with gay guides, although only the guides for the evening tours took patrons to gay venues. I remember it well because it organised excellent tours to Phnom Penh and Luang Prabang for me.

In March 2004, police raided the company's office alleging they were on the lookout for companies arranging sex tours for pedophiles. This was total nonsense. It was based on the flimsiest of grounds and only because they had seen some free gay magazines on a table in the shop. It was titled 'Thai Guys'. All the company's computers and files were removed and all but one of the staff detained overnight. As is usual in this country, the following day there was a media conference with the 'evidence' placed in a table in front of the accused directors, Douglas Thomson, John Goss and Robert Scobie, whose apartments had been raided. And again as usual, the police painted a lurid picture of the men engaged in sexual enslavement of children and arranging prostitution.

Had it all been so simple and the full facts discovered, perhaps everything might have died down. Unfortunately Robert Scobie had been on the Australian Federal Police Watch List, although his fellow directors were not aware of this. While Deputy Ambassador in Hanoi in the 1980s, Scobie had been linked to questionable photgraphs sent in the diplomatic bag. For several years, according to the article, there had been a "simmering paranoia" about Australian pedophiles in Asia. Questions had been asked in parliament. It was alleged there were at least 20 diplomats engaged in such activity. It seemed that Scobie was being "nailed", rightly or wrongly. For a time the Australian police had a team based in Thailand to investigate the general accusations. It is even suggested that once Scobie had been arrested, the Australian ambassador went to the Immigration Department to congratulate them on the raid on Spice Trade travel (the formal name of Utopia Tours).

Goss, a US citizen, and Scobie had their passports confiscated. Eventually they were returned and the case basically dismissed!

But the Australians were incensed. Pressure was put on the Thai government and the case was reopened - to be heard not in the High Court where cases regarding pedophilia would normally be heard, but in the lowest Thai Court which would normally hear cases dealing with traffic offences. The trial took place in November 2004 before one judge. Extraordinarily, he gave an order that the media could not take written notes on pain of imprisonment! Scobie's private files from his home were entered into evidence even though they had nothing to do with the Spice Trade trial.

At the trial it was established that Spice Trade did not publish Thai Guys. Further that the publishers had not been arrested. In Thailand porn is not acutally illegal. Trading in it is. Yet, Thai Guys was a free magazine! Scobie was sentenced to 7 months in prison and a fine of 10,000 baht; Goss got 8 months and 20,000 baht. But both were suspended and some employees had work visas cancelled. By now the Tourism Authority of Thailand had become involved. It suspended Utopia Tours licence to trade for 6 months. Perhaps oddly, the Thais really wanted the case to disappear. It was the Australians who kept pressing for more and more action. 

Utopia Tours eventually returned under a rebranded name (I believe it was Purple Dragon). But the damage had been done. It could not last. The company died.

John Goss gave his own version of the story with much more detail in another very long article - https://web.archive.org/web/20050731080446/http://www.yawningbread.org/guest_2005/guw-098.htm

[floridarob]

I still have my Uptopia discount card....

[hojacat]

4 hours ago, PeterRS said:

There were indeed quite a few of these booklets, often with interesting information. But with respect I think your memory is not quite accurate regarding the Australian taken to Court. If we are referring to the same incident, there is an excellent report of it here - https://web.archive.org/web/20050606015724/http:/www.yawningbread.org/arch_2005/yax-435.htm 

For those not interested in wading through a very long article, the bare bones were these. Some may recall a travel company in the early 2000s named Utopia Tours with its office based in the Tarntawan Hotel (it actually started business in 1998). It organised gay-themed tours to various parts of Asia with gay guides, although only the guides for the evening tours took patrons to gay venues. I remember it well because it organised excellent tours to Phnom Penh and Luang Prabang for me.

In March 2004, police raided the company's office alleging they were on the lookout for companies arranging sex tours for pedophiles. This was total nonsense. It was based on the flimsiest of grounds and only because they had seen some free gay magazines on a table in the shop. It was titled 'Thai Guys'. All the company's computers and files were removed and all but one of the staff detained overnight. As is usual in this country, the following day there was a media conference with the 'evidence' placed in a table in front of the accused directors, Douglas Thomson, John Goss and Robert Scobie, whose apartments had been raided. And again as usual, the police painted a lurid picture of the men engaged in sexual enslavement of children and arranging prostitution.

Had it all been so simple and the full facts discovered, perhaps everything might have died down. Unfortunately Robert Scobie had been on the Australian Federal Police Watch List, although his fellow directors were not aware of this. While Deputy Ambassador in Hanoi in the 1980s, Scobie had been linked to questionable photgraphs sent in the diplomatic bag. For several years, according to the article, there had been a "simmering paranoia" about Australian pedophiles in Asia. Questions had been asked in parliament. It was alleged there were at least 20 diplomats engaged in such activity. It seemed that Scobie was being "nailed", rightly or wrongly. For a time the Australian police had a team based in Thailand to investigate the general accusations. It is even suggested that once Scobie had been arrested, the Australian ambassador went to the Immigration Department to congratulate them on the raid on Spice Trade travel (the formal name of Utopia Tours).

Goss, a US citizen, and Scobie had their passports confiscated. Eventually they were returned and the case basically dismissed!

But the Australians were incensed. Pressure was put on the Thai government and the case was reopened - to be heard not in the High Court where cases regarding pedophilia would normally be heard, but in the lowest Thai Court which would normally hear cases dealing with traffic offences. The trial took place in November 2004 before one judge. Extraordinarily, he gave an order that the media could not take written notes on pain of imprisonment! Scobie's private files from his home were entered into evidence even though they had nothing to do with the Spice Trade trial.

At the trial it was established that Spice Trade did not publish Thai Guys. Further that the publishers had not been arrested. In Thailand porn is not acutally illegal. Trading in it is. Yet, Thai Guys was a free magazine! Scobie was sentenced to 7 months in prison and a fine of 10,000 baht; Goss got 8 months and 20,000 baht. But both were suspended and some employees had work visas cancelled. By now the Tourism Authority of Thailand had become involved. It suspended Utopia Tours licence to trade for 6 months. Perhaps oddly, the Thais really wanted the case to disappear. It was the Australians who kept pressing for more and more action. 

Utopia Tours eventually returned under a rebranded name (I believe it was Purple Dragon). But the damage had been done. It could not last. The company died.

John Goss gave his own version of the story with much more detail in another very long article - https://web.archive.org/web/20050731080446/http://www.yawningbread.org/guest_2005/guw-098.htm

Were that company also the host of utopia-asia.com or it's completely unrelated? I remember they were my main source of information for bars, clubs and saunas when I started my travels in Asia around 2009. In the coming years though the advent of social medias and dating apps changed the game completely. The number of sites regarding gay traveling and venues recommendations also seems to have multiplied in the last 10 years or so.

[Travellerdave]

Yes I remember those gay booklets especially in the early 2000’s when I first discovered Pattaya. They were often to found on tables of the Complex bars. If I recall correctly there was a pile of them on a table at the gay Sansuck Sauna as you emerged from the changing area into the pool surround. I don’t think I did much reading there I much preferred to lay by the pool or go into the dark maze in search of action.

[PeterRS]

7 hours ago, hojacat said:

Were that company also the host of utopia-asia.com or it's completely unrelated?

If I recall correctly - and I am not at all convinced that I am - John Goss was associated with Utopia. Indeed he may have started it. The copyright on that site starts in 1994 which was certainly before Utopia Tours started. I only know because a friend of mine who had moved to Asia went to visit him off Sukhumvit (on one of the odd numbered streets after Asoke) from which the original Utopia was based. 

I suppose there could be an association with the Utopia-Asia site, but that has a ton of information which must have taken a great deal of time to collate over the years. John Goss seems to have restricted his publications to Thailand. That site is still far from perfect, but can be very useful especially if reports from readers are up to date.

[fedssocr]

FWIW, Purple Dragon did survive for many years before going out of business in 2018 or 2019. To say Douglas was bitter about the whole affair would be an understatement. A TAT governor who was instrumental in the case ended up going to jail for a long time over another matter, which Douglas was quite happy about.

I believe when I first contacted them before my first visit to Thailand the company was still called Utopia tours but changed names before I actually took my trip. As Purple Dragon they put together many great trips for me all over SE Asia before their cashflow problems caught up to them. I think I took one of the last trips they arranged for anyone before shutting down.

I used to pick up those little magazines at Dick's Cafe for something to read while watching the world go by on the terrace

[daydreamer]

Yes, the website Utopia and the gay and lesbian Utopia complex off Sukhumvit were both operated by John Goss.   Utopia had a building with a bookshop, guesthouse, and a cafe on Sukhhumvit soi 23.  The building currently houses a Thai restaurant named Jutharos.  It is located a couple blocks from soi Cowboy.  The exact location can be seen on Google maps at  https://tinyurl.com/ybnb8jvn

I stayed in one of the Utopia guesthouse rooms in either 1995 or 1996.  I had offed a boy from the Hippodrome Bar in Saphan Kwai, and we stayed at the Utopia guesthouse room for a few days before we traveled together to Ko Samui.  

Incidentally, the boy that stayed with me at the Utopia guesthouse turned out to be a model featured in Midway magazine, one of the publications mentioned earlier in this thread.

I remember the Utopia cafe served a very tasty khao soi, the Lanna Thai noodle curry soup that is somewhat difficult to find outside of northern Thailand.

John Goss also took the hundreds of excellent photos for the book "Very Thai: Everyday Popular Culture" by Philip Cornwel-Smith.  The book is available on Amazon.  It is worth a look if you are interested in Thai culture and everyday Thai life.

 

[fedssocr]

As is the second book in the series Very Bangkok: In The City of the Senses