A open Thank You to Traveler Jim

[PattayaMale]

Last Sunday Traveler Jim was nice enough to meet me at Starbucks to share the packet he and his boyfriend had put together to get a visa to the USA.

 

I had seen him at Oud's a few days before and told him my Thai friend was going to apply for a US visa. We have been partners for 10 years and I wanted to show him by country of birth as I had seen some of his.

 

Jim who does not live in Pattata, volunteered to go to his home and dig up the packet they presented at the US Embassy. They were successful in obtaining a visa.

 

We met at Starbucks and he was a big help to me. He gave me some really good tips and gave me his boyfriends mobile number so my friend could call and get some first hand advice about the interview.

 

Once again I say that is why I enjoy living in Pattaya. There are people like Traveler Jim always willing to help

[Gaybutton]

And that's a perfect example of why utter idiots such as those who thought it was a great idea to hurt Jim's feelings like that or people such as that moronic, gutless coward who actually sent him a threatening Email, hidden of course by a program to make the Email untraceable, ought to be completely disregarded. People like that are worthy only of contempt. I'd like to see any one of them life a finger to help someone else or spend one baht out of their own pockets to help people the way Jim does. Those are the people who ought to be leaving the message boards, not Jim.

[Guest PattayaPlayers]

Perhaps you'd also like to talk to me, GayThailand. My boyfriend of 10 years applied for a tourist visa two years ago -- we waited until we had everything in place that others had before trying. Unfortunately, we were turned down. I believe it was mostly due to the woman who interviewed us -- I believe she was homophobic. But, I also learned some valuable lessons about what NOT to do or say -- that I think might be fodder for you as you begin the strategy of this multi-faceted game.

 

I certainly wish you luck -- and hope that you are more successful than we were. It certainly left a bitter taste in my mouth. In fact, one which has stained my patriotism and trust in the American system.

[Gaybutton]

I also learned some valuable lessons about what NOT to do or say

Why keep it a secret? Probably many could benefit from your experience. Why not share it with us or at least post some guidelines?

[Guest Oogleman]

Its no coincidence that 2 of the most knowledgable and helpful people on the forums get attacked by the trolls. Sheer jealousy of others extensive knowledge and largesse is sad to see, especially among grown adults.

 

Traveller Jim has been very helpful to me with a number of things over the last few years and Gaybutton has offered several times and im sure one day i will take him up on his offer.

[PattayaMale]

One tip I have heard from 2 different people is that when they ask if you want to be interviewed in English or Thai, if possible, interview in English.

 

Jim was very upfront that he and his boyfriend were gay.

 

The second person that told me to interview in English is a THAI professor at a university that helps prepare people for a hospitality and tourism career. He feels that there is a lady interviewer that is not so nice.

[Guest GaySacGuy]

I would certainly be interested in hearing all the info and tips for the US Visa for Thais. I am hoping that some day my boyfriend can travel to the US for a visit, but the odds don't seem so good. Hopefuly the Obama administration will make it easier!!!

[Guest PattayaPlayers]

One tip I have heard from 2 different people is that when they ask if you want to be interviewed in English or Thai, if possible, interview in English.

 

Unfortunately, this was one of the mistakes we made. We went back and forth -- but finally decided that we would have my boyfriend interview in Thai -- just to make him more comfortable. Big mistake. First off, his English is excellent -- as far as Thais go -- and second, the interviewer's Thai sucked. He could barely understand what she was saying. God only knows if she understood what he was saying correctly or not. The whole interview lasted 1.3 minutes, she asked me two questions -- and refused to look at any of our substantial paperwork -- including his housepapers, car ownership, families from letters and employers, etc.

 

She was real piece of work.

 

And sorry Gaybutton, I just can't write everything here -- but for those who are serious and would like to meet me -- I'd be happy to debrief in person.

[Guest Astrrro]

Met TJ a few times and he's most definitely a good guy!

[Guest MonkeySee]

Met TJ a few times and he's most definitely a good guy!

Ditto

[Gaybutton]

The whole interview lasted 1.3 minutes, she asked me two questions -- and refused to look at any of our substantial paperwork -- including his housepapers, car ownership, families from letters and employers, etc.

 

And sorry Gaybutton, I just can't write everything here

I don't see why not. I've written many lengthy, detailed articles for people who come to these boards. Since you brought up the issue in the first place, I don't see why you can't do the same thing. Nobody is asking you to post any kind of personal information, if that's the problem, just some "dos and don'ts" guidelines for people trying to get a visa for a boyfriend, based on your own experience. It's an 'up to you.'

 

Meanwhile, since the interview was so short and his application was rejected, apparently by sheer whim of the interviewer, did you investigate whether it was possible to go to someone higher in authority, check if there is an appeals process, or file some sort of complaint about the fact that she refused to even look at the paperwork? Did she give a reason for the rejection?

[Guest MonkeySee]

the fact that she refused to even look at the paperwork? Did she give a reason for the rejection?

I do not believe that they have to give you a reason for the rejection. You are dealing with government officials that think they are one rung under god almighty. TJ told me that the person that interviewed his bf, did not look the paperwork that they put together. They have probably already reviewed and processed the paperwork prior to the interview. I bet they put more weight on the interview and English skills. I would be persistent and try again. Many times it takes another try to be successful.

 

[Guest PattayaPlayers]

Meanwhile, since the interview was so short and his application was rejected, apparently by sheer whim of the interviewer, did you investigate whether it was possible to go to someone higher in authority, check if there is an appeals process, or file some sort of complaint about the fact that she refused to even look at the paperwork? Did she give a reason for the rejection?

 

Yes, of course we asked. Unfortunately, you are just handed a disclaimer form letter and informed that the "decision is final and cannot be appealed." End of story. You may however, as they say "reapply if your circumstances become different and warrant further consideration."

[Gaybutton]

Unfortunately, you are just handed a disclaimer form letter and informed that the "decision is final and cannot be appealed." End of story.

In other words, it really is up to the whim of the interviewer and the interviewer doesn't have to answer to anybody or justify a thing. "I don't like your face." Rejected! "Your shoe is untied." Rejected! "You have a tattoo." Rejected! "You don't know the second verse of The Star Spangled Banner." Rejected! "You forgot the date of Mamie Eisenhower's birthday." Rejected!

 

Apparently it really is as simple as that. And some of us complain about immigration procedures in Thailand?

 

I do not believe that they have to give you a reason for the rejection.

That's true, but it wouldn't kill them to at least give a hint to the person they reject, especially if he met all the published application criteria and had all the necessary paperwork. I get the feeling they reject applicants if they suspect they might be gay. After all, we can't have gay foreigners running loose in the USA. That's a no no. No no no no nooooooo!

[Guest sabaisabai]

GB......based on the experience of my bf.....you are absolutely correct. It is up to the 'whim' of the interviewer. Beyond tied or untied shoes or likable faces, decisions of the interviewers could also be subject to such variations of fiber intake and coitus frequency.

 

It appears (based on discussions with my U.S. Senator's office) the United States Foreign Service has designed the system this way. Interviewers decisions are final. There is no requirement for a declaration (or hint) of the reason for the denial. There is no appeal process.

Again, all by design.

 

Of course, the applicant is always free to make application again... $100 per pop and several days of wasted time.

 

And, yes, it does leave a bitter taste to ALL involved.

[Gaybutton]

And, yes, it does leave a bitter taste to ALL involved.

Apparently to all except for the interviewer. The interviewer could simply be in a bad mood, but gets to deny people a visa simply on the strength of that, despite the fact that the applicant has met every requirement flawlessly.

 

You said this is by design. Why is that the design? At the moment, that's on my "I Don't Get It" list. Do you know why they want to do things that way? Did anyone explain to you the logic behind that kind of policy? I can't make sense of it. I thought that was the very kind of thing the USA is supposed to be against.

[PattayaMale]

Soi 10 Tom sent me this link Legislation to allow Partner entry

 

If we are serious about seeing the immigration law change, I suggest we each write to our state Senator urging them to endorse and vote for this legislation which was introduced March 9, 2009.

 

Also a letter to Hilary Clinton, Secretary of State, may be helpful.

 

Pass it on

[KhorTose]

Yes, of course we asked. Unfortunately, you are just handed a disclaimer form letter and informed that the "decision is final and cannot be appealed." End of story. You may however, as they say "reapply if your circumstances become different and warrant further consideration."

 

Yes, you can reapply, and get a new interviewer who will grant you a visa. I know it is a stupid system, but they have to have some kind of screening.

 

Obama is not for gay marriage, but he has said over and over again that he would grant full rights to gay partners. So somewhere down the road I see a partnership rights bill and an executive order concerning gays in the military being presented by this administration. That is unless we (gays) have been lied to again.

 

[Guest xiandarkthorne]

...That is unless we (gays) have been lied to again.

 

You mean we haven't? Sorry but I don't trust anyone who says he's going to change the world. What it usually means is "Do what I tell you to do. Immediately! And don't even dream of trying to emulate what I do."

 

Coming back to Traveler Jim, has anyone met up with him since his last post here? I do hope someone will be able to persuade him to come back.

 

 

[Guest GaySacGuy]

I would really like some more information on the topic of acquiring a visa for Thais to visit the US. What paper work is required?? What are the keys to being accepted?? What are the pitfalls to avoid? What do those that have been declined "think" caused them to be rejected?

 

I think the laws might get more fair to gays, but I would really like to try and beat the system...just once...or maybe twice!!

[Gaybutton]

What paper work is required?? What are the keys to being accepted?

I do know some of it. The major factor is that the applicant must demonstrate a "compelling reason" to return to Thailand. That means strong family ties, a good, well paying job that he has held for a substantial period of time, property ownership, a healthy bank account, again held over a substantial period of time (so that nobody could stuff his account just to get him the visa), his level of education, and anything else that provides clear evidence of that all-important "compelling reason" to return to Thailand.

 

I also know that if the embassy has any reason to suspect that the applicant has ever been involved with prostitution, you can forget about him ever being approved for a visa.

 

Unfortunately, based on Pattayaplayers' and Sabaisabai's posts, even if the applicant can well-document everything the embassy is looking for, the interviewer can still reject him for no good reason at all.

 

All you can do is try. I could be wrong, but I have a feeling the worst thing you can personally do is to go to the embassy with him, especially during the interview. Getting the visa has to be his own show. Also, if a farang is accompanying a young Thai man, that alone might be enough to cause the interviewer to suspect prostitution.

 

You can find most of the information on the USA Embassy's web site at: http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/visas/visa-services.html

 

You also might be interested in the following: http://www.integrity-legal.com/us-visa/us-...r-services.html

[mahjongguy]

It is possible that there is one (female) interviewer who is prejudiced. I wouldn't know. In general I don't think being gay is an issue but I agree that the relationship must at least appear to be "real". When my b/f went in for his interview he was only asked one question: "how & where did you meet?". The answer he had prepared was "through mutual friends, at a birthday party". This happened to be reasonably close to the truth. The interviewer then said "enjoy your holiday in the U.S.".

 

I know a couple here who failed to get a visa the first time. A year later they tried again. The Thai simply said "he's my husband and where he goes, I go". Visa granted.

 

It's an awful process to go through but it's all based the percentage of overstays from the applicant's country, and it's just a fact that too many Thai (and many others) overstay their time in the U.S.

 

As for the immigration bill that has been floated, yes we should all express our support for it, but that bill is aimed at granting marriage-like green card status for same-sex partners. There's no certainty that it will make it easier to get tourist visas.

[Guest PattayaPlayers]

Many of you, including Gaybutton know me and my boyfriend. We have been together for many, many years and had waited 5 years before even attempting to apply. Unlike many Thai-Falang relationships, our age difference is within a decade and we both have had stable jobs in LOS for many years. I dare say we are as close to a "poster gay couple" as these people at Immigration will ever see. My boyfriend even has health coverage through my employer (as a spousal benefit). Whoever knows me, they also know him.

 

We were advised by several good friends who had success in this arena to go as a couple and be 100% honest. We did and I still don't think it was a mistake. I think we presented a compelling argument... He had a stable business, steady bank account (but obviously not "padded," letters from my family over seas and his family here, plans for the business while he was away, a house in his name, a car in his name -- and bazillions of utility bills, rent contracts, etc. spanning over a decade with both our names together. We also tried to present photos of our "marriage" ceremony -- one that included ALL of his family and 250 of his close village neighbors. We were both dressed smart, but not overdone and I dare say a more worthy applicant probably hasn't stepped through those doors.

 

The woman was homophobic. No doubt. She was a fairly young thing, blond hair and very "matter of fact." She made my boyfriend very nervous, though I think he handled himself with grace under pressure. I can find no reason other than the fact that she just didn't want to let the happy gay couple go to the USA.

 

My sister and my mother both died within a year of this experience. I know it is ridiculous, but I still personally blame that bitch at the window for not allowing my boyfriend to ever meet my sister and whatever patriotism I had in my blood was transfused that day. Thankfully, my mother had come to Thailand and spent a month with both of us before her passing.

 

We haven't been back to that window and I doubt we ever will until there is a law that backs us up. I don't like anyone to have that kind of power over our lives. She shattered 7 years of dreams in less than two minutes. And to what end? Is the USA safer without us having been there?

 

I doubt it.

[Gaybutton]

I think we presented a compelling argument.

I'd bet just about anything the "we" part is what ruined it for you. I advise re-applying, this time without any "we." Let him go himself. Don't have him show pictures of a wedding ceremony or anything at all to even hint he is gay. Have him show only the documentation they ask for. Don't add things they never asked for.

 

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if this time they grant him the visa.