Moses Posted May 12, 2023 Posted May 12, 2023 1 hour ago, Suckrates said: Trump is so deranged, referring to him as President now gives him and his bloated ego It is not about Trump, it is about respect of the will of nation elected him as a president. It is foundation of democracy, do you know? Mavica 1
reader Posted May 12, 2023 Posted May 12, 2023 10 minutes ago, Moses said: It is not about Trump... When they say it's not about Trump, it's about Trump. floridarob 1
Members Riobard Posted May 12, 2023 Members Posted May 12, 2023 Why not let the man himself clarify the distinction?: “If I were president …”; “If I’m president …” And worry more about what that possibility means than about the title itself in or out of office. It’s not Bridgerton. It’s not Marie Antoinette on PBS. Though he would deftly settle the conflict between the American colonies and England within a day. And his “whack job” pussy-grabbable mistresses are spontaneously randomly selected at the local market. Notice the only content that didn’t get laughs was devoid of misogyny and racism. alvnv and stevenkesslar 2
Members Suckrates Posted May 12, 2023 Author Members Posted May 12, 2023 50 minutes ago, Moses said: It is not about Trump, it is about respect of the will of nation elected him as a president. It is foundation of democracy, do you know? That reasoning is Bullshit, for a person that orchestrated an insurrection to overthrow democracy and the will of its people, the rules should be different. RESPECT ? Are you kidding me? Did you see how he treated the moderator at his Town Hall and the comments he made about the person he was found GUILTY of abusing ? PLEASE ! When you deal with Trump, you are not dealing with a normal human, and treating him as if he is one is a Travesty that all you people that make excuses for him are guilty of. You all need to STOP normalizing Trump and his actions. floridarob and alvnv 2
Members Riobard Posted May 12, 2023 Members Posted May 12, 2023 Foundations are as solid as bricks and mortar. Hitler lost to Hindenburg in 1932 and within a year had usurped the presidency based on populism and growing popularity of NAZI ideology. Didn’t storm any capital but federal votes occurred in follow-up iteration. Hindenburg handed over leadership the same year. 🍎 🍏 It’s what the majority wanted and steered, superficially democratic. Sound familiar? Sure, all justifiable, right? No reason at all to pull out a history lesson and turn a seeing eye. stevenkesslar 1
Members JKane Posted May 12, 2023 Members Posted May 12, 2023 Latbear4blk, vinapu, stevenkesslar and 1 other 4
Members Latbear4blk Posted May 12, 2023 Members Posted May 12, 2023 4 hours ago, reader said: Really? When was the last time that Trump was correct about anything? 😄 The moderator corrected Trump many times, and I have seen many others doing the same. Of course, the outcomes of any game depend on the players' skills, and Trump is a skillful player. It looks like we all agree on how depictable Trump is. We disagree on whether or not he and his minions have the right to access mass media and the same political resources granted by US electoral/democratic system to anyone else. I think they should have complete access. I understand the challenges presented by a mass liar. However, we should focus on finding creative ways to fact-check and debate them rather than discussing how to block them out of mainstream channels. The bottom line is the US people will have the leaders they deserve. If you need to come here to vent your frustration, fine. But advocating for censoring them is falling into their authoritarianism and intolerance trap. stevenkesslar, Mavica and Moses 3
Members Suckrates Posted May 12, 2023 Author Members Posted May 12, 2023 12 minutes ago, Latbear4blk said: The moderator corrected Trump many times, and I have seen many others doing the same. Of course, the outcomes of any game depend on the players' skills, and Trump is a skillful player. It looks like we all agree on how depictable Trump is. We disagree on whether or not he and his minions have the right to access mass media and the same political resources granted by US electoral/democratic system to anyone else. I think they should have complete access. I understand the challenges presented by a mass liar. However, we should focus on finding creative ways to fact-check and debate them rather than discussing how to block them out of mainstream channels. The bottom line is the US people will have the leaders they deserve. If you need to come here to vent your frustration, fine. But advocating for censoring them is falling into their authoritarianism and intolerance trap. Trump is not a person that IF elected will be a leader that simply makes a bad policy or two occasionally. He is an abhoration that if elected will dismantle Democracy and woo all our adversaries as allies. He will court and cater to the rich and discard all others. He will squeeze and corrupt the Supreme Court more than it is now. You are acting too cavalier and taking this much too lightly. And IF Trump is elected, you WILL be living under authoritarianism, so why not take every precaution to STOP it before it becomes reality ? Looks like we will continue to disagree, and I hope for Gods sake, you WONT have to eat your words in 2024.
pitman Posted May 12, 2023 Posted May 12, 2023 Great piece by Robert Reich on why CNN allowed this travesty to take over its airwaves. https://robertreich.substack.com/p/after-last-night-anyone-still-trust Key takeaway -- When you follow the money behind deeply irresponsible decisions at the power centers of America today, the road often leads to right-wing billionaires. stevenkesslar and Mavica 1 1
Members Riobard Posted May 12, 2023 Members Posted May 12, 2023 You cannot run an intervention and appeal to reason with somebody that lacks both internal and external locus of self-regulatory control, that refuses to be in the room. They need to hit bottom and that inevitably includes collateral damage towards and at that bottom. He wears a rubber ball suit with deployable parachutes. Only the chips will fall.
Members Suckrates Posted May 12, 2023 Author Members Posted May 12, 2023 8 minutes ago, Riobard said: You cannot run an intervention and appeal to reason with somebody that lacks both internal and external locus of self-regulatory control, that refuses to be in the room. They need to hit bottom and that inevitably includes collateral damage towards and at that bottom. But do we really ALL have to hit rock bottom WITH HIM ? That's basically what it would come down to.
Members Riobard Posted May 12, 2023 Members Posted May 12, 2023 1 hour ago, Suckrates said: But do we really ALL have to hit rock bottom WITH HIM ? That's basically what it would come down to. It would, but capitulation on the way there is not the call. Surrender is not an option on the way down. Do what you can and hope that collectively enough tide turns against him. I’m not saying that passive acquiescence overrides the futility of engagement. But countering information fallacy has its limits. Such challenges can only be directed to a real person. He won’t concede to any correction. A widespread lack of critical thinking and an abundance of Dunning-Kruger affliction among him and his base militates against significant headway achievable by steadfastly putting your shoulder to the stone. “Mr USA” is not a real person but unfortunately runs things; DJT is the epitome that Mary Pipher described (and portended) years ago. It is a manifestation of deep societal pathology. I suggest reading Pipher’s astute related essay in Writing for the World. The diagnosis doesn’t guarantee a rendering of clear strategy but it is imperative to understand the dynamics at multiple conceptual levels. She insightfully personifies and caricaturizes history, crafting it within the structure of clinician-client exchange. A Trump could only have emerged from the ashes of a well-intentioned but failed therapeutic plan within her analogy. Mr USA wouldn’t stay in the room or commit; the current manifestation was always inevitable. At this level, no surprise should be registered. He represents reality and its malaise.
Moses Posted May 12, 2023 Posted May 12, 2023 5 hours ago, Suckrates said: You all need to STOP normalizing Trump and his actions. Don't tell me what I should do, and will not tell you to where you should proceed with all your wishes... Please find in my posts any "normalizing" of Trump. I'm speaking about titles for presidents. What is correct and what is not. Mavica 1
Members Suckrates Posted May 12, 2023 Author Members Posted May 12, 2023 33 minutes ago, Moses said: Don't tell me what I should do, and will not tell you to where you should proceed with all your wishes... Please find in my posts any "normalizing" of Trump. I'm speaking about titles for presidents. What is correct and what is not. I understand what you are doing and saying Mr Moses, explaining what is correct and not. But if you havent noticed, Trump is NOT a normal person and based on what he has unleashed on America, should not be afforded the same respect and grace any other person might receive, IMO. I'm not sure if you are an American citizen, and in the event you aren't, then you cant understand what the USA is experiencing and going thru with the existence of THAT man who is intent on destroying our country. ! Mavica 1
reader Posted May 12, 2023 Posted May 12, 2023 9 hours ago, Moses said: No. "President Trump" is correct because of lifetime presidential privilege. Moderator may use both: "Mr. Trump" and "President Trump". "Mr. President" isn't correct since it is privilege of acting president. Not sure what you meant by "acting president" but the title "Mr. President" is reserved solely for the individual currently holding that office and not former office holders. After researching this topic, there is no hard and fast rule for what you call former presidents. In the end, it's an honorific to call a former president "President X" if the person addressing President X chooses to use it. As for it being a privilege, the government has spoken about the subject of privileges of former presidents in the form of an act. And no where among those privileges is the manner in which he or she shall be addressed. Former Presidents Act (3 U.S.C. § 102 note) (a) Each former President shall be entitled for the remainder of his life to receive from the United States a monetary allowance at a rate per annum, payable monthly by the Secretary of the Treasury, which is equal to the annual rate of basic pay, as in effect from time to time, of the head of an executive department, as defined in section 101 of title 5, United States Code [section 101 of Title 5]. However, such allowance shall not be paid for any period during which such former President holds an appointive or elective office or position in or under the Federal Government or the government of the District of Columbia to which is attached a rate of pay other than a nominal rate. (b) The Administrator of General Services shall, without regard to the civil-service and classification laws, provide for each former President an office staff. Persons employed under this subsection shall be selected by the former President and shall be responsible only to him for the performance of their duties. Each former President shall fix basic rates of compensation for persons employed for him under this paragraph which in the aggregate shall not exceed $96,000 per annum, except that for the first 30-month period during which a former President is entitled to staff assistance under this subsection, such rates of compensation in the aggregate shall not exceed $150,000 per annum. The annual rate of compensation payable to any such person shall not exceed the highest annual rate of basic pay now or hereafter provided by law for positions at level II of the Executive Schedule under section 5313 of title 5. United States Code [section 5313 of Title 5. Government Organization and Employees]. Amounts provided for “Allowances and Office Staff for Former Presidents” may be used to pay fees of an independent contractor who is not a member of the staff of the office of a former President for the review of Presidential records of a former President in connection with the transfer of such records to the National Archives and Records Administration or a Presidential Library without regard to the limitation on staff compensation set forth herein. (c) The Administrator of General Services shall furnish for each former President suitable office space appropriately furnished and equipped, as determined by the Administrator, at such place within the United States as the former President shall specify. (d) [Repealed. Pub. L. 86-682, § 12(c), Sept. 2, 1960, 74 Stat. 730. See sections 3214 and 3216 of Title 39.] (e) The widow of each former President shall be entitled to receive from the United States a monetary allowance at a rate of $20,000 per annum, payable monthly by the Secretary of the Treasury, if such widow shall waive the right to each other annuity or pension to which she is entitled under any other Act of Congress. The monetary allowance of such widow-- (1) commences on the day after the former President dies; (2) terminates on the last day of the month before such widow-- (A) dies; or (B) remarries before becoming 60 years of age; and (3) is not payable for any period during which such widow holds an appointive or elective office or position in or under the Federal Government or the government of the District of Columbia to which is attached a rate of pay other than a nominal rate. (f) As used in this section, the term “former President” means a person-- (1) who shall have held the office of President of the United States of America; (2) whose service in such office shall have terminated other than by removal pursuant to section 4 of article II of the Constitution of the United States of America; and (3) who does not then currently hold such office. (g) There are authorized to be appropriated to the Administrator of General Services up to $1,000,000 for each former President and up to $500,000 for the spouse of each former President each fiscal year for security and travel related expenses: Provided, That under the provisions set forth in section 3056, paragraph (a), subparagraph (3) of title 18, United States Code [section 3056(a)(3) of Title 18, Crimes and Criminal Procedure], the former President and/or spouse was not receiving protection for a lifetime provided by the United States Secret Service under section 3056 paragraph (a) subparagraph (3) of title 18, United States Code; the protection provided by the United States Secret Service expired at its designated time; or the protection provided by the United States Secret Service was declined prior to authorized expiration in lieu of these funds. Mavica 1
Members Suckrates Posted May 12, 2023 Author Members Posted May 12, 2023 IMO, Trump has not EARNED the privilege of RESPECT in any way, shape or form. What he should receive is disdain and anger.. To be honest, I am VERY tired of people jumping to Trumps defense in any discussion of Trumps rights and how Trump should be addressed or treated. He forfeited any rights when he decided to commit an anti-American act. Just keep remembering what Trump has done, and what he INTENDS to do if he is given the chance to in 2024. He is a twice impeached, disgraced, once indicted (so far) , convicted sexual abuser and habitual Liar who orchestrated an insurrection to overthrow American democracy. Is that the person you want to defend, respect or give any grace to ? Heavy introspection and soul searching is necessary IF your answer is Yes....
Members Latbear4blk Posted May 12, 2023 Members Posted May 12, 2023 5 hours ago, Suckrates said: Looks like we will continue to disagree, and I hope for Gods sake, you WONT have to eat your words in 2024. There are no words to eat. I am not making optimistic predictions. Trump could win the next election, and I would hate it to happen. But I happen to believe that if we cannot defeat Trump in open debate without exclusions, so we do not deserve to win and will have to suck up our own incompetence. Mavica and stevenkesslar 1 1
Members Latbear4blk Posted May 12, 2023 Members Posted May 12, 2023 5 minutes ago, JKane said: Humor is one of our best tools to expose his lies.❤️ stevenkesslar and Mavica 1 1
Moses Posted May 12, 2023 Posted May 12, 2023 2 hours ago, Suckrates said: then you cant understand what the USA is experiencing and going thru with the existence of THAT man who is intent on destroying our country. ! You will destroy your country even more if current Mr. Alzheimer Mr. President, will take oval room again. And now I'm talking not about Trump. Mavica and TotallyOz 2
Members Suckrates Posted May 12, 2023 Author Members Posted May 12, 2023 20 minutes ago, Moses said: You will destroy your country even more if current Mr. Alzheimer Mr. President, will take oval room again. And now I'm talking not about Trump. I see that you've swallowed the Kool-Aid, so I wont even discuss your stupid comment with you. Biden is smarter, more experienced and more mentally capable than Trump, who is INSANE. Who is YOUR President ? Putin ? Orban ? Do you even live in a Democratic country ? My suspicions are you Dont.
floridarob Posted May 12, 2023 Posted May 12, 2023 1 hour ago, Moses said: You will destroy your country even more if current Mr. Alzheimer Mr. President, will take oval room again. And now I'm talking not about Trump. And you talk about respect, if you can't give it, don't expect it. Respect is earned.... I'd take a baked potato and yes, Biden in that office over Trump or DeSantis.... Republicans are the party of fear, that's how they get people to vote. Whether it's gay marriage, drag queens, coming for your guns, higher taxes, etc..... just tiring. Mavica and reader 2
Members Riobard Posted May 12, 2023 Members Posted May 12, 2023 1 hour ago, Moses said: You will destroy your country even more if current Mr. Alzheimer Mr. President, will take oval room again. And now I'm talking not about Trump. Who are you talking about, then? For somebody so rigidly and fervently insistent on the correct title privilege nomenclature, your weak and digressive attempt at shade on the incumbent would accurately employ the term of address President Alzheimer. No less absurd. However, consistency lapses may connote neurocognitive impairment and a GPS tag for dithering wandering may be in order. Mavica 1
Moses Posted May 13, 2023 Posted May 13, 2023 1 hour ago, Suckrates said: Do you even live in a Democratic country Why you call country of gerontocrats "democracy"? Without cards with speech Biden is able to say only 3 sentences: "Who I am?" "Where I am?" and "Who are you?".
Moses Posted May 13, 2023 Posted May 13, 2023 43 minutes ago, floridarob said: And you talk about respect Could you please quote me where I'm talking about "respect"?
