CNN legitimizes Trump

[Suckrates]

17 minutes ago, Moses said:

Why you call country of gerontocrats "democracy"? Without cards with speech Biden is able to say only 3 sentences: "Who I am?" "Where I am?" and "Who are you?".

 

And Trump is incoherent when he rants his Lies.    I am not sure what YOUR agenda is here Moses,  but you certainly are leaning Trumpy,   which doesnt make me connect with you.    And you havent answered what government YOU live under.   That information might make your anti-Biden rhetoric more understandable.   You are dismissing the fact that Trump is only a few years younger than Biden,  so basically they are both geriatric, so your argument is moot. . 

[Latbear4blk]

56 minutes ago, Moses said:

Why you call country of gerontocrats "democracy"? Without cards with speech Biden is able to say only 3 sentences: "Who I am?" "Where I am?" and "Who are you?".

 

I think Biden would probably demolish you in a debate. Everyone who underestimated him suffered the consequences.

But this thread is about Trump and the CNN town hall. Let's try to stay on topic.

[stevenkesslar]

47 minutes ago, Moses said:

Why you call country of gerontocrats "democracy"? Without cards with speech Biden is able to say only 3 sentences: "Who I am?" "Where I am?" and "Who are you?".

First, let's not be rational.  You are getting into it with my dearest and most darlingest sister, who I love.  So of course I have to defend her.  We are two of the sweetest and lovingest and loveliest gals you've ever met.  But don't fuck with us.

Second, let's be rational.  The picture you posted doesn't suggest Biden "is able to say only 3 sentences," as you stated.  Not to be a bitch.  But YOU are being the irrational one, sweetie.  If he can read instructions saying ask the President of the AFL-CIO a question, he can probably say more than "Who are you?"  Which I'm guessing is not the question he asked the President of the AFL-CIO.

Third,  If he can follow a detailed list of instructions, he's probably not senile.  If Trump and/or Biden can do interviews, which I have seen both do recently, they are not bonkers.  That's one of the virtues of a CNN town hall with either candidate.  It demonstrates that, even though are seniors, they don't just look at a camera and drool and fart.

Fourth, by your own standard, what the fuck is wrong with this convicted abuser and liar and loser?

I mean, yeah.  Maybe Biden shouldn't need written help to know the President of the AFL-CIO will be joining virtually. 

But who needs written help to understand empathy?  What kind of wretched and convicted abuser and liar and loser - other than President DJT - would need to be cued to say "I hear you" when meeting with shooting survivors?  It actually could be taken to mean Trump's brain is addled.  Or, it could be taken to mean his brain is toxic.  Which is quite understandable, seeing as how it spent an entire life in the body of a convicted abuser and liar and loser.  Let's have some empathy for President DJT, okay?  😉

Seriously, guys.  Can't we split the difference on this protocol stuff and just call him President Loser?  Or President Toxic?

Whatever we name him, Trump should NOT be President again.

 

 

 

 

[Mavica]

Ad hominem attacks are an indication that the individual(s) making them have lost an argument / discussion.  A clear sign of weakness, inferiority.

Quote

"The ad hominem attack is used as primarily as a diversion tactic, either to unjustifiably shift the burden of proof to someone else in the discussion or to change the topic. The ad hominem attack involves the faulty premise that an attack against the source of an argument necessarily constitutes a successful refutation of that argument."

Thls discussion thread has veered from the topic.  Personal attacks only diminish the validity of whatever the makers of those attacks have said throughout.  Entirely.  I understand why "the other" web forum ceased to allow political discussions. This one appears to have been hijacked by some, not all, who are addicts.  Individuals addicted to Donald J. Trump. It's as if Trump wouldn't let them suck him off, and 'Hell hath no fury ...'. Humorous? Yes. My suggestion?  Start a different, serious discussion, one that's relevant.

[vinapu]

1 hour ago, Moses said:

Could you please quote me where I'm talking about "respect"?

certainly nowhere

[Suckrates]

12 minutes ago, Mavica said:

Ad hominem attacks are an indication that the individual(s) making them have lost an argument / discussion.  A clear sign of weakness, inferiority.

Thls discussion thread has veered from the topic.  Personal attacks only diminish the validity of whatever the makers of those attacks have said throughout.  Entirely.  I understand why "the other" web forum ceased to allow political discussions. This one appears to have been hijacked by some, not all, who are addicts.  Individuals addicted to Donald J. Trump. It's as if Trump wouldn't let them suck him off, and 'Hell hath no fury ...'. Humorous? Yes. My suggestion?  Start a different, serious discussion, one that's relevant.

Hijacked?   Excuse me sir, but you need to slow your roll here.... This Thread is about Trump and we ARE discussing Trump, so no indication of "addiction" here.   Who would you like us to discuss in a TRUMP thread......Pence ?  🤣

If its being hijacked its by YOU with your irrelevant comments....   Noone is arguing or attacking so not sure why you introduced THAT into this conversation. ?   As for your "suck-off" joke,  that didnt land either, and was totally inappropriate for someone referencing "attacks".....

 Since you are so familiar with the OTHER forum,  why dont you tell us WHO you really are.   Most likely one of the right-wingers that got shut out when the forum closed.....    Funny how things always seem to reveal themselves.....  And your incessant bomb throwing with your downvote emojis is tiresome and indicative of the state you live in....FLORIDA, so that makes your behavior crystal clear, at least to me.....

[vinapu]

14 hours ago, reader said:

Really? When was the last time that Trump was correct about anything? 😄

in grade 2 when asked by teacher  " how much is 3 plus 8  " and he answered " surely more then 10"

[Mavica]

42 minutes ago, Suckrates said:

Since you are so familiar with the OTHER forum,  why dont you tell us WHO you really are.   

🙃

[floridarob]

3 hours ago, floridarob said:

if current Mr. Alzheimer Mr. President, will take oval room again. And now I'm talking not about Trump. 

 

14 hours ago, Moses said:

It is not about Trump, it is about respect

I cut off the rest, you cut off my quote....respect is respect is respect....

[stevenkesslar]

10 hours ago, pitman said:

Key takeaway -- When you follow the money behind deeply irresponsible decisions at the power centers of America today, the road often leads to right-wing billionaires. 

Not that I've never led a thread off topic.  But let's return to our regularly scheduled crisis in American democracy, okay?

Great article, @pitman. 

I'm always one for calling out right-wing billionaires.   (Did I mention I think we should raise their taxes, too, to reduce the deficit?  But, being a bipartisan guy, I'd say let's tax left-wing billionaires more, too.  But there I go again, hijacking a thread about Trump and CNN to talk about taxes on fat cats.)

I'm fine with saying it's the media, stupid.   But I'd take that sentiment and go the other way.  Compared to a generation ago, the media has gotten way more partisan.  CNN led the way, along with Fox. 

All through US history, of course, there have been slanted and even toxic media sources.  But I do think right now the media itself is helping to divide us.  They build money making silos, and encourage us to stay in them by telling us what we want to hear.  Which, in the case of Fox, was a bunch of lies, as we all just learned.  Kudos to CNN for proving they can spout just as many lies.  Even if it was indirectly through Trump, and the CNN moderator fact checked him.

Reich is 1000 % correct that the media needs to hold Trump accountable for his lies, and venom about women, and democracy-bashing.  Had I edited his essay, I would have suggested Reich point out that Kaitlan did that, exceptionally well.  To me, that is exactly what made it so scary.  The truth didn't matter.  Go ahead.  Call her a "nasty woman." 

To me, it did feel like it could have been Hitler saying, "nasty Jew!"  With the crowd ready to smash the windows with glass.  Not that they aren't the kindest "patriots" around, who can't get a fair trial anywhere.  That said, we should all fear what comes next.  I'd like America to stew over that.

John Meacham, as I noted above, put it very well in historian talk.  It's basically the same point @Riobard made above in psychology talk.  This is a pathology.  And it is deeply rooted.  And hopefully a majority reacts the way Meacham said he did, personally.  It is almost more important than anything else that we stop this.  Now.

As much as it is the media, stupid, I'll be the one to keep saying broken record that it is fundamentally the economy, stupid.  

Morning Joe likes to point out that in the recent bad-for-Biden ABC/WaPo poll that has triggered the Democratic inside the Beltway bed wetters, we also learned that 56 % of Americans think Donald Trump should face criminal charges in "investigations of whether he tried to illegally overturn the results of the 2020 election."  

What is bad for Biden, and what Morning Joe does not mention, is that in the same poll 54 % of Americans say Trump did a better job handling the economy when he was POTUS than Biden has in his term "so far."  Emphasis on the words "so far."

Morning Joe did say that when voters are talking about Trump, Democrats win.  When voters are talking about Biden, Republicans win.  I'll paraphrase to argue that if Americans care most about the economy, Trump would win today.  If Americans care most about how Trump is a convicted, impeached, and indicted loser and liar and abuser, Biden would win today.   

We know Democrats did amazingly well last Fall, when inflation was higher than today.  And when even more voters than today said the economy was on the wrong track.  So that gives us a window into how Americans voters may weigh these important things.  It's almost as if people voted as if eliminating some pathology, or perhaps some pathological liar, was more important than anything else.  Meacham 1, Pathological Liar 0.  Stay tuned.

If Donald Trump is not senile, he should be.  Only a senile old fool would go on CNN and insult suburban women in .................. how many ways?  He should have been talking about the economy, stupid.  Not how Kaitlan is a "nasty woman."

Then again, maybe not:

Q1 2017 to Q3 2020:  GDP per capita growth from $54,866 to $56,479  = 2.5 % growth for Trump's term up to Election Day 2020

Q1 2021 to Q1 2023:   GDP per capita growth from $57,882 to $60, 470 = 4.5 % growth for first half of Biden's first term

Even a senile old fool would realize that whatever senile fool brought us 4.5 % growth is better than the senile fool that brought us only 2.5 % growth.  At least up to the point where voters decided to fire this abusive and lying loser.  Could that be why President Trump, who is no fool, failed to explain how the economy did better under him?

The interesting question is why voters feel Trump did better on the economy, when GDP has grown faster under Biden.  And unemployment under Biden is at a record low, and lower than it was under Trump.

But I guess that would take a whole book to explain.  I just can't think of one word - or one GIF - that would explain it.  😉

 

 

 

[Moses]

4 hours ago, Suckrates said:

And Trump is incoherent when he rants his Lies.    I am not sure what YOUR agenda is here Moses,  but you certainly are leaning Trumpy,   which doesnt make me connect with you.    And you havent answered what government YOU live under.   That information might make your anti-Biden rhetoric more understandable.   You are dismissing the fact that Trump is only a few years younger than Biden,  so basically they are both geriatric, so your argument is moot. . 

I just wonder: why US should choose btw 2 worst "cases" - Orange Clown and Walking Dead Alzheimer? 

[floridarob]

Brian Tyler Cohen def pushes Dem view, I read between the lines when I watch him every now and then.

But he got this right:
 

 

[stevenkesslar]

2 hours ago, floridarob said:

Brian Tyler Cohen def pushes Dem view, I read between the lines when I watch him every now and then.

But he got this right:
 

 

I hit the like button about one minute into that video.  Because I agree 1000 % with Anderson Cooper.  I agree 0 % with Brian Tyler Cohen on this one - even though I do agree with him most of the time.  But I like the video, and thanks for posting it.  This is the debate we need.

To me, it boils down to this.  A conservative friend of mine used to repeatedly tell me this axiom of his.  He thought what defines conservatives is that they debate things.  And if you disagree, you disagree.  What defines liberals, at least educated ones, is that if you don't agree with them it's just because they didn't explain it well enough.  So they just have to explain it to you again.

I never agreed with my friend.  But Bryan Taylor Cohen appears to be that kind of educated liberal in this rant.  He doesn't trust people to figure it out for themselves. 

If we ever needed proof that the American people could figure it out for themselves, the 2022 midterms provided a really good argument.  In a year that should have been a broad reaction against Biden, principled and honest conservatives did just fine saying conservative things.  But democracy-trashing and dishonest Trump spawn were all sent back to the hell they came from.  That's democracy.  God bless it.

Cohen's argument that the media helped Trump win by giving him a platform in 2016 makes no sense.  If that's true, why did Trump lose after the media gave him an even bigger platform for the next four years?  Could it be because people actually paid attention to what Trump was saying and doing?  And said we need to get rid of this abusive loser?

Cohen seems to be implicitly arguing for censorship.  He seems to think if we ignore 70 million or so Americans, they will go away.  I think we know by now that they won't go away.  And that censoring them only plays into their politics of anger and grievance.  Let them call smart women nasty.  In 2018, 2019, 2020, and 2022, that just helped Biden win the smart women vote.

I think only media types would pat themselves on the back by thinking the media has that much power, either way.  I'm with historian Lichtman.  It's the economy, stupid.  Were it not for COVID, Trump probably would have won in 2020.  The COVID economy was what put the final nails in his coffin. 

But we can only hope, if Republicans nominate Trump, and even if the economy is weak next year, that a long and deep debate will bring moderates and Independents to where John Meacham is, and wants America to be.  Defeating this abusive and lying loser has to be the most important thing on the agenda. 

That is the debate this CNN town hall opened.   Is it possible that is the debate they wanted to start?

[TotallyOz]

3 hours ago, Moses said:

I just wonder: why US should choose btw 2 worst "cases" - Orange Clown and Walking Dead Alzheimer? 

I am just thankful I am from a place where we get to choose our leaders. That is not true of all countries.

[forky123]

It's not the 43% on either side that's going to decide the 2024 election. it's the people in the middle in swing states. CNN didn't legitimise Trump, the US did in 2016 when they were stupid enough to make him President. Four years of a Sociopath in charge apparently didn't destroy enough democracy in the US so, in all likelihood, the US is going to give him another 4 years. They are also very likely to give him his senate and congress with the extreme right in ascendancy. Why? because the majority of Americans measure Trump and Biden on completely different scales. That any reasoned person could listen to Trump and Biden without recognising how seriously disturbed Trump is, is quite beyond me. Putting Trump in for an additional 4 years of vile retribution of every imagined slight will have vast implications on not only the US but the whole world.

[Latbear4blk]

To add another concern to the points I already made, I think this focus solely on Trump's character is distracting us from the core problem: he is representative of a significant number of Americans, and his coalition has no shortage of political leaders flashing their racism, intolerance, ignorance, and assault rifles. Hopefully, they are White Christian America's last stand, winning some battles before losing the war, but we do not know how this will evolve. 

CNN is just doing its work and showing an America that still exists, whether or not we like it. 

[reader]

6 hours ago, Moses said:

I just wonder: why US should choose btw 2 worst "cases" - Orange Clown and Walking Dead Alzheimer? 

Well, if we follow your logic then Russians should choose between a paranoid ex-KGB operative and a paranoid ex-KGB operative. They do have choices in election, don't they? 😀

[vinapu]

1 hour ago, reader said:

Well, if we follow your logic then Russians should choose between a paranoid ex-KGB operative and a paranoid ex-KGB operative. They do have choices in election, don't they? 😀

yes, the same like passengers in last few row of airplane. Stewardess is asking " do you want a meal ? ' , passenger answers " do I have a choice ? ", she answers ' yes, yes or no".

But on more serious note I hate to admit I agree with Moses although omitting both insulting labels. Americans are presented or even more accurate,  are presenting themselves with questionable , mostly age related,  options.

We all remember  crash landing of Soviet Union after putting at helm string of  aged, increasingly out of touch,  leaders.

China learned the lesson by putting 10 years limit but abandoned it and chances are will pay for it in the future

Nation of 300 000 000 should certainly do bit better. 

[vinapu]

8 hours ago, Moses said:

I just wonder: why US should choose btw 2 worst "cases" - Orange Clown and Walking Dead Alzheimer? 

certainly there's danger at one point in future USA may find themselves lead by somebody like Brezhnev of USSR or Mugabe of Zimbabwe, both hardly uplifting examples

[Riobard]

14 hours ago, Moses said:

Why you call country of gerontocrats "democracy"? Without cards with speech Biden is able to say only 3 sentences: "Who I am?" "Where I am?" and "Who are you?".

Like I said, digressive. In one breath you emphasize the incumbent’s legitimacy, and that former presidents’ title prerogative rests on democracy and individual choice autonomy. In another breath the outcome has apparently undermined democracy and an absurd made up descriptor for national principles is pulled out of your hat based on an amateurish ungrounded psychodiagnostic formulation that itself is driven by myopic cherry-picking. Further to that, you erroneously assume that, for the readership here, sentiments about one particular person having stunk up a town hall dictate alliance with the comparator you pejoratively refer to. This is beyond convoluted, talking points all over the map. 

[Riobard]

12 hours ago, vinapu said:

in grade 2 when asked by teacher  " how much is 3 plus 8  " and he answered " surely more then 10"

No, incipiently misogynistically “Shirley, more than 10”. 

[Latbear4blk]

2 hours ago, vinapu said:

Americans are presented or even more accurate,  are presenting themselves with questionable , mostly age related,  options.

I also agree that it is concerning that younger options are not electable. But I think it is a topic for another thread. 

 

[Riobard]

[error; delete]

[JKane]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mavica]

10 hours ago, floridarob said:

Brian Tyler Cohen def pushes Dem view, I read between the lines when I watch him every now and then.

But he got this right:
 

 

I'd never before heard of Brian Tyler Cohen - until he was mentioned here.  He's a youtube contributor.    There are a lot of grandiose youtubers - some good, some not so.  Not much in the way of expertise on anything, from what I heard and researched about him.  Maybe I'm mistaken. But, like each of us here ... he's entitled to express his opinion.  And, he did address himself to the topic of this particular discussion - unlike some of the book-length off topic opinions I'm reading in this thread.  Yes, his guest list has been impressive and he seems to tilt to the left, further left than mainstream Democrats.  That said, I listened to about 4 minutes before shutting it off.  🫢