My bitch of the day - Bars hiring Laos boys!

[Gaybutton]

Considering the number of policemen and others who are looking for an opportunity to “shake down” farangs, I consider TJ’s post to be an important caution of which we should be aware.

Obviously it can't hurt anything to be cautious, and I fully agree that one would be taking a serious risk by taking a boy with him who has no ID, but again I have never heard of farang arrested for harboring when he took a boy off from a bar, no matter what his nationality is. As a matter of fact, I have never heard of any farang arrests when he took any boy off from a bar.

 

As far as ID is concerned, if a Laotian boy has a valid passport with a valid visa that has not yet expired, then you're not harboring. Under those circumstances he is in Thailand legally. He and the bar would have a problem if it is discovered he is illegally working in a bar, but you wouldn't.

 

However, I still wouldn't advise taking him under any circumstances unless he at least can produce his passport and visa and he is at least 18 years old. If he can't, then if it were me I would tell him it was nice to meet him and maybe I'll see him around some time.

 

If he can produce those, then I don't see an element of risk for the farang at all, but people have to make their own decisions. Obviously, there is no question about it if the boy is Thai, so people have to make their own choice regarding risk and whether taking the risk is worth it to them.

 

Under any circumstances, to my mind the basic universal precaution is very simple: No ID=No Off.

[Guest xiandarkthorne]

Thanks for clearing that up for me, GB. I hadn't realized that things had reached the stage of threatening emails in TJ's case. I truly do hope he comes back...or at least he's in Pattaya or BKK when I come next month.

 

I do wish I could run out and book my train ticket to BKK right now but I still have to wait for my last client to confirm whether he's coming to Penang and whether he's going to be leaving before the end of April...Gawwd...I NEED my sex holiday!!!

[Guest lester1]

First of all I would like to put to one side the habit that Americans have of somethimes thinking that the world revolves around them, so this means that what mexicans do once they have wetbacked across the river has little pertinance on the Pattaya problem of lao's in bars.

Next to be thrown out of the window is any statement that it is wrong for the bars to employ lao boys at all. In a business that panders to the idea that prostitution is legal, rather than being clearly illegal, then a small infringement of employment laws shouldnt get us, the customers, to wet ourselves over it. I am also reminded of the story that various civic contracts in the construction business were once halted because another civic authority had just deported all the available illegal Cambodia workers.

I also find quite funny the idea that it might be that some of the lao boys might have passports and up to date visas. This I would doubt. One reason why bars might employ a lao is because they know that these boys would have absolutley no rights whatever, and can be seriously screwed.

Of course, the bar owners will be hoping that these boys will be seriously screwed, but of course in a sexual context, thus earning the bar money.

I am sure that what makes this interesting is whether there is any worries for the farang. Nine times out of ten I would suspect that the farang wouldnt have a clue about the nationality of the boy anyway. Checking any ID to check age wont be possible so the wise farang would stop there. If the boy is clearly over 18, then the fact that he is lao, in my opinion, wont matter at all, except that he wouldnt get past a reputable hotels doorman.

[Guest]

The only Laotian I've ever met had a Laotian passport & therefore met the requirements of the hotel reception desk. Quite right too -he had just as much right to enter the hotel as anyone else.

[Gaybutton]

First of all I would like to put to one side the habit that Americans have of somethimes thinking that the world revolves around them

One of the things I always enjoy is reading a post written by someone who has no idea what he's talking about. Very sorry, but the posts on this thread mentioning similarities between what Mexicans do and what Lao boys do are perfectly valid, despite your dislike of Americans. A post like yours reminds me of an old short-lived American television comedy called "Fair Exchange," in which a teenage girl from the USA and a teenage girl from England become exchange students. The girl from the USA is well-liked by an old grouch in her British neighborhood, but he constantly puts down Americans. One day she gets fed up with it and asks him, "Am I the only American you've ever liked?"

He responds with, "There was one other."

"Who?" she asks.

"Benedict Arnold."

 

While you're technically correct in that prostitution is illegal in Thailand, a law is only as good as its enforcement. Obviously, Thai authorities do not enforce prostitution laws other than the under-age aspects, but they definitely do enforce the laws about aliens working illegally.

 

While you're laughing about the idea of Laotian boys having up-to-date passports, guess what. You're dead wrong. Nearly every one of them do have up-to-date passports. I've met plenty of Laotian boys over the years, working in the bars. They might have been working illegally, but every last one of them always had valid, up-to-date passports.

 

You wrote, "Nine times out of ten I would suspect that the farang wouldn't have a clue about the nationality of the boy anyway." Really? Unless the farang fails to check a boy's ID, why wouldn't he? Chances are if a boy produces a Thai ID card or a Laotian passport, he's not from Bulgaria.

 

You wrote, "Checking any ID to check age wont be possible." You're going to have to explain that one. Why wouldn't it be possible? It would be quite easy.

[Guest lvdkeyes]

Chances are his disdain for Americans comes out of pure and simple jealousy.

 

While America is certainly not perfect, it has more and better than England. I can speak from a point of having lived in England for 3 years and having visited long time friends there many times.

 

 

[Rogie]

While America is certainly not perfect, it has more and better than England.

 

Care to be a bit more specific regarding your England comment?

 

Is this some kind of reference to British employment law? If not, we've wandered rather off-topic.

 

This poster has jumped on the Lester1-bashing band wagon I see. Gaybutton's comments were fair and well-reasoned. But to use the word jealousy is pure inference.

[Bob]

As an American, I'm also curious as to what we have "more and better" than England. Certainly we have had dumber leaders during my lifetime and probably have people who physically have "more" (wow, that's being kind...).

 

What do we yanks have that's better? I'm a bit stumped to figure that one out.

[Guest]

As an American, I'm also curious as to what we have "more and better" than England.

Neither country wins prizes for intelligent leaders.

Brown & Bush must be two of the dumbest people to be in charge of G7 economies in the last century.

 

Britain has the curse of the Labour party, which had to be bailed out by the IMF last time they were in charge in the 1970s and stand every chance of requiring the same this time around.

Also, how on earth do they expect Britain to be competitive when the government is spending about 45% of GDP ?

 

On balance, I would prefer a Republican-Democrat choice than Conservative-Labour. Conservative-Democrat would be a better choice on the ballot paper, although the UK probably needs something more like the Singapore PAP to sort out the mess we now have.

[Guest lvdkeyes]

As an American, I'm also curious as to what we have "more and better" than England.

Some of what I was talking about is natural resources, agriculture and cost of products. There are more Brits living in Thailand than Americans. The BBC in 2005 rated the happiest countries. US was number 41, UK was number 90. Surely this says something. End of discussion from my side.

[Bob]

Some of what I was talking about is ............cost of products.

 

You mean to tell me that our Chinese-manufactured products are cheaper than Britain's Chinese-manufactured products? Amazing.

 

[Gaybutton]

Do you all realize that a thread about Laotian boys working in Thailand's bars has now morphed its way into a debate over whether the UK or the USA is the better country?

 

I'd like to bring things back on track. If there's more to say about the Laotian boy issue, please post on this thread. If there's more to say about which country is the best one, please do so on a new thread, and that thread should be on our "beer bar" forum.

 

[Guest lester1]

Gaybutton asks why the checking of age should present a problem if dealing with a Lao boy. A frequent topic on message boards is how to convert the Thai year into the western way of measuring dates so that we always know a boy is over 18. I have no idea what system a lao passport/ID card uses so does someone need to explain that for us. I assume that a lao passport is too large to secrete down a pair of white briefs.

Gaybutton also says that many if not all of the lao boys he has met actually owned a passport. I stand corrected on that one but it does fill me with sadness. Although my knowledge of prostitution is based theoretically on reading things and practically on a 200m radius around Sunee, I dont think I am wrong if I say that prostitutes are almost always from economically deprived and/or broken family groups. This does not make them bad people, of course. Now I would suspect that the ownership of a passport, especially in a country like Laos, would reflect a certain economic/social status on the part of the owner. I am curious as to why such a person would come to Thailand and dance in a gogo bar in Pattaya.

Gaybutton also took issue with my point that the average farang would not know what nationality he is dealing with. Well yes, if the farang checks the paperwork. But if the boy is clearly the right age then this probably wont be done. Currently in the plaza I know 2 Cambodians and 1 Vietnamese and I know that farang customers assume they are Thai. That is the point I am making.

Finally, apologies to those who couldnt resist responding to my comment about the US and Mexicans, thus making the board moderator cross about trying to keep things on track. Its not always possible to ringfence a topic, even though the US is doing its best to ringfence its southern boarders with concrete. On the subject of walls, apart from the new one on the Mexican boarder, we have in the UK the Roman ruin called Hadrians Wall, designed to keep out marauding murderous Scotsmen. Then there is the Great Wall of China, to hold back the Mongol hoards, and the Israeli walls, ditto, for the arabs. Last we have the Berlin Wall, unique insofar as it was built to keep the builders in.

Sorry, I am waffling on.

[Guest Oogleman]

So - assuming the Lao guys are appearing in larger numbers.

 

Will there be trouble between them and local Thais? After all they are taking Thai folks jobs. Or will the mafia/police keep everything in check.

 

Will the next stories we see in Pattaya news be gangs fighting over turf or loads of lao guys rounded up in police bar raids and deported?

[Guest]

The only way I get to find out where my acquaintances are from is by asking them, assuming they give the right answer.

 

I imagine a Laotian passport fee could easily be recovered by a few offs, so anyone with some initiative might well travel in search of more income.

 

Some of the more adventurous people in the region try their luck at visiting Singapore for a month.

[Rogie]

Some of the more adventurous people in the region try their luck at visiting Singapore for a month.

 

From what I know, and I admit it isn't much, based on a visit a few years ago, the Farang / gay scene in Laos is miniscule compared to Thailand. Laotian gays presumably do amongst themselves what they have always done for generations, but as far as integrating farangs into that, a la Thailand, it has yet to happen. (And, who knows, may never happen - it is a lovely country and maybe I am being idealistic but I'd like to see it stay that way). Geographically, Laos isn't far from Isaan, just across the river, so, even if every last one of them was a passport-carrying Buddhist from a well-to-do family, what is to keep them at home? Curiosity! To see what it's all about - the world-famous Pattaya!

 

[Gaybutton]

Ok, Lester1, here we go:

 

The Laotian year is the same as the Thai year. Right now the year is 2552. It's very simple to figure it out. You simply use the "543 Rule." If you subtract 543 from 2552, you have 2009. For a Laotian boy to be at least 18, then he has to have been born in 2534 or before. However, a Laotian passport will show this year as 2009, not 2552. Is that simple enough?

 

A Lao citizen pays the equivalent of US $25 for a passport. Renewals cost them the equivalent of US $10. Obviously they manage to come up with the money.

 

You wrote, "Currently in the plaza I know 2 Cambodians and 1 Vietnamese and I know that farang customers assume they are Thai."

 

My response to that is: So what? That is not a problem for farang. It's only a problem for the boy if he gets caught working illegally and a problem for the bar if caught hiring boys working illegally. The only problem a farang would face would be if the boy is under-age. If the farang fails to check a boy's ID, that's his own responsibility whether the boy is Thai, Laotian, Vietnamese, or anything else.

 

Again, there is no law in Thailand that prohibits a farang from having sex with any nationality he wants, and it doesn't matter whether they met in a bar or anywhere else. The only thing that matters is the age. Also again, if any farang has ever been arrested when he took a boy off from a bar, no matter what the boy's nationality is, I've never heard of it.

 

You wrote, "Sorry, I am waffling on." Well, at least you got that right.

[Guest fountainhall]

The only thing that matters is the age

 

Branching out on a tangent here, do you think the Thai tax authorities might have any interest in such cases? If I am on a tourist visa and I sell my body, not only is it technically illegal, I believe the income is taxable. At my age and in my condition, I know that's not going to happen - but hope springs eternal!

[Bob]

If I am on a tourist visa and I sell my body, not only is it technically illegal, I believe the income is taxable.

 

I believe you'd have no problem as the first 10 baht of income is tax-free.

 

[Guest fountainhall]

Bingo! Now I know how to supplement my income in retirement B)

[Guest xiandarkthorne]

You do realize that charging just 10 baht for your body could be a fatal error? Remember that this is Asia and there would be an unbelievable number of farang-fixated Asians lining up to ravish your lily-white farang body (never mind if its saggy all over - there are just as many papa-obsessed ones around). Why, you could be dead of exhaustion before you got to spend even one sattang of your first 100 Baht!

[Guest lvdkeyes]

Why, you could be dead of exhaustion before you got to spend even one sattang of your first 100 Baht!

What a way to go!!!!!!!!

[Guest fountainhall]

You do realize that charging just 10 baht for your body could be a fatal error?

 

I'm obviously too naive and will need you as my 'agent', xiandarkthorne

[Guest xiandarkthorne]

I'm obviously too naive and will need you as my 'agent', xiandarkthorne

 

No problem. I'll make sure that you get atleast a half-hour's rest between clients and have a doctor on standby. And, oh yeah, I'll contract to have suitable herbal soups and other properly nourishing foods ready to keep you in top shape.

 

[Guest fountainhall]

With all that 'activity', I reckon I'll need a goodly supply of viagra and cialis as well - which, bearing in mind your commission (!), might mean the fee has to go up. I'm starting to look forward to this B)