Thailand’s problem with transgenders in the workplace

[reader]

I admit that I had no idea what "cisgender" meant before reading this article--and I'm not altogether sure I do now.

From The Nation

What can businesses do to improve the work environment for transgender people? That was the question asked by transgender representatives at a recent Bangkok seminar to discuss issues they still encounter at work – and potential solutions.

“Thailand appears to be an LGBTQ heaven, but in reality they are only tolerated, not included. Otherwise, we would see a greater presence of them in all kinds of occupations,” said Nikki Phinyapincha, founder of the TransTalent consulting group.

Nikki was speaking at the “Trans Mentorship and Seminar Day” on Friday, part of Sasin School of Management’s inclusion initiative (IDEAL) led by Dr Drew B Mallory and TransTalents.

Around 77% of job applications by Thai transgenders are rejected – more than for lesbians, gays, and bisexuals – and they face three times more obstacles in unemployment than cisgenders, explained Nikky.

(Cisgender describes a person whose gender identity matches their sex at birth.)

“This is also very important for financial inclusion and security of transgender people, who suffer the most from discrimination at work,” she said.

“There is a false impression that a transgender person has emotional problems. To change this and make a better impact, we need to give power to these people in the boardroom for decision-making too,” she added.

Anamika Phiancharoenrat, payables analyst for ExxonMobil, explained that when she took the job, she felt like she had no rights as a transperson at her company.

“I was scared of going to the bathroom because I had to follow my title, which is Mr, and I felt so uncomfortable being in the male bathroom,” said Anamika.

“I was fortunate that the company had a pride group to support me and help raise the problem, and now I can finally use the women's bathroom,” she said.

“Thailand may seem like an LGBT paradise, but I disagree. We are not even treated as human sometimes,” she added.

Wharinthorn Na-Bangchang, a partnership development manager at LMG insurance, agreed.

“I think it's about respect,” she said, adding that “Asian culture is blind, no one knows what transgender or nonbinary means and they want nothing to do with anyone different from a cisgender.”

While companies like to appear trans-friendly, she said, they do little or nothing to protect trans rights.

“Many organisations seem supportive, but they are not. It’s more like a marketing campaign. They have to hire an LGBT in human resources first if they really want to support us,” she added.

Continues with photos

https://www.nationthailand.com/business/corporate/40026305

[Marc in Calif]

A cis(-gender) man is someone who was born with male genitalia and today identifies as a man/male.

A cis(-gender) woman is someone who was born with female genitalia and today identifies as a woman/female.

Some dating apps enable people to choose the gender that they identify for themselves: cis-male, cis-female, trans, FTM, MTF, non-binary, etc.

[PeterRS]

The interesting point raised in the article from The Nation is not only re the difficulties faced by transgender people in obtaining employment, but the fact that lesbians, gays and bisexuals experience only slightly less difficulty. It just proves yet again how difficult it is in general for LGBT Thais, especially those who work in professions, to "come out" to their colleagues and employers.

[Tartegogo]

On 4/3/2023 at 7:39 AM, reader said:

I admit that I had no idea what "cisgender" meant before reading this article--and I'm not altogether sure I do now.

I am a bit surprised about this, for a gay man who reads so much about LGBTQ stories around the world, that you had not encountered the word that is used to describe the opposite of transgender before. 
 

Your mind is gonna be blown away when you discover non-binary people. 
 

No hate, tho, it is only now that these old concepts (i mean old in gender studies) are making their way into popular culture.
 

[reader]

Much appreciate your clarification.

I guess this means that LGBTQ is insufficiently inclusive. So we now should use a new acronym of LGBTQCGNB to refer to the gay community?

I hope—for my sake and that of Joe Biden—that neither of us has to pronounce that in pubic because I'm sure we'll both stumble over it. 🙂

[gayinpattaya]

On 4/4/2023 at 1:15 AM, Marc in Calif said:

A cis(-gender) man is someone who was born with male genitalia and today identifies as a man/male.

A cis(-gender) woman is someone who was born with female genitalia and today identifies as a woman/female.

Some dating apps enable people to choose the gender that they identify for themselves: cis-male, cis-female, trans, FTM, MTF, non-binary, etc.

Can you explain this in English? I just checked my Oxford Dictionary. Can't find it. 

[floridarob]

1 hour ago, gayinpattaya said:

Can you explain this in English? I just checked my Oxford Dictionary. Can't find it. 

Check in your pants....but might not find anything there either 😉

[alvnv]

1 hour ago, gayinpattaya said:

I just checked my Oxford Dictionary. Can't find it. 

Get an updated version (after 2015): https://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/cisgender-has-been-added-to-the-oxford-english-dictionary-10343354.html

While at it, get rid of old telephone directories 😀

[Tartegogo]

9 hours ago, reader said:

Much appreciate your clarification.

I guess this means that LGBTQ is insufficiently inclusive. So we now should use a new acronym of LGBTQCGNB to refer to the gay community?

 

I hope—for my sake and that of Joe Biden—that neither of us has to pronounce that in pubic because I'm sure we'll both stumble over it. 🙂

 

LGBTQIA2S is the full set used in some of the gender studies literature in North America.

I is for intersex people 

A is for a-romantic and asexual people.

2S is for the two spirit people of many Native American tribes.

Enbies (non binary) are all necessarily trans so they are already included in the T.

Being cisgender doesn’t make you gay. Cisgender people are by far the majority of people on Earth (>98%), they don’t need to be part of a coalition of minorities

[spoon]

Gender and sexuality are two different things and often people got these two mixed up and interchangeable.

From my understanding cisgender is a category of gender, and doesnt indicate any sexuality at all. So does binary, transwomen, transmen etc. 

Sexuality on the other hand classify as hetero, homo, bi, pan, inter, poly etc. 

So a cisgender man, can be str8 or gay, or bi, anything in between in term of their sexuality.

[reader]

7 hours ago, Tartegogo said:

LGBTQIA2S is the full set used in some of the gender studies literature in North America.

I is for intersex people 

A is for a-romantic and asexual people.

2S is for the two spirit people of many Native American tribes.

Enbies (non binary) are all necessarily trans so they are already included in the T.

Being cisgender doesn’t make you gay. Cisgender people are by far the majority of people on Earth (>98%), they don’t need to be part of a coalition of minorities

Again, thank you for the definitions. I'm content if LGBTQIA2S is the new standard for those who are concerned with gender studies but, judging from your explanation, there's no need for it to replace LGBT and LGBTQ in describing gays in the media.

And I thought it was just the fine print in insurance polices that are complicated.

7 hours ago, spoon said:

Sexuality on the other hand classify as hetero, homo, bi, pan, inter, poly etc.

Reads like the list of ingredients in a tube of sunscreen.🙂

[gayinpattaya]

Alphabet people. Got it. 

[gayinpattaya]

10 hours ago, alvnv said:

Get an updated version (after 2015): https://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/cisgender-has-been-added-to-the-oxford-english-dictionary-10343354.html

While at it, get rid of old telephone directories 😀

Oh you're sweet. I'm too young to have ever owned a telephone directory. We had cell phones dear. 

[alvnv]

58 minutes ago, gayinpattaya said:

Oh you're sweet. I'm too young to have ever owned a telephone directory. We had cell phones dear. 

Try online versions on your cellphone then instead of carting around your “Oxford Dictionary”.

[gayinpattaya]

26 minutes ago, alvnv said:

Try online versions on your cellphone then instead of carting around your “Oxford Dictionary”.

I'm good, but thanks for the advice. 

[Marc in Calif]

17 hours ago, gayinpattaya said:

Can you explain this in English? I just checked my Oxford Dictionary. Can't find it. 

I used standard English. 

If you still don't understand what the words genitalia, gender, and identify mean (they're all in the Oxford Dictionary), then this particular topic is far too advanced for you. 😇

[gayinpattaya]

11 hours ago, Marc in Calif said:

I used standard English. 

If you still don't understand what the words genitalia, gender, and identify mean (they're all in the Oxford Dictionary), then this particular topic is far too advanced for you. 😇

You woke lot really can't stand when people deny your rubbish ideology. This is the reason many gay men now totally denounce the alphabet people and their LGBWTGIUOC++ nonsense. 

Yes I understand these words. There are 2 types of genitalia, male (penis) and female (vagina) . There are 2 genders, male and female, which are assigned at birth according the which genitalia the baby has! And you can identify as a orange penguin if you like, but it doesn't actually mean anything. If a human has a dick, it's male. Period. 

And I have never, or will never be a CIS anything. What a load of nonsense. I am a homosexual MALE. All this other rubbish I want nothing to do with. 

[Marc in Calif]

9 hours ago, gayinpattaya said:

You woke lot really can't stand when people deny your rubbish ideology. 

No. You never did deny it. You simply asked for an explanation in English — which I then gave to you. 

If your narrow right-wing ideology doesn't allow you to accept new terminology, that's totally on you. The rest of the world will continue very happily without you and your little friends.

Enjoy Thailand, where you're either a CIS-male or a ladyboy. Personally I don't care how you choose to identify. You're always perfectly free to be you!  😘

[floridarob]

21 minutes ago, Marc in Calif said:

Enjoy Thailand, where you're either a CIS-male or a ladyboy.

Shhh.....He's secretly a Lesbian when he hasn't had a haircut 😉

[Vessey]

Interesting thread and a sure sign that I am getting older in that I had absolutely no idea what all these descriptors or  labelling means; not that I am a fan of labels or categorising people at the best of times 🤣

For all practical purposes 'working' boys I meet in their various 'work-places' in Pattaya, are either gay or straight, and if they are straight just how 'gay for pay' are they? More practical still, do they top, bottom or are they versatile?

So when the hung young guy banging your ass in your room at night says that he can only stay short-time as he has to get back to his wife and children, it suggests price tags might be more appropriate than sexual labels 😂

So much easier to try and live and let live without judgement 😊

[Marc in Calif]

21 minutes ago, Vessey said:

For all practical purposes 'working' boys I meet in their various 'work-places' in Pattaya, are either gay or straight...

And that also includes ladyboys if one visits the appropriate 'work-places.' That's also a practical distinction.

[vinapu]

20 hours ago, gayinpattaya said:

sense. I am a homosexual MALE.

I thought you are gay 

[Tartegogo]

22 hours ago, gayinpattaya said:

You woke lot really can't stand when people deny your rubbish ideology. This is the reason many gay men now totally denounce the alphabet people and their LGBWTGIUOC++ nonsense. 

Yes I understand these words. There are 2 types of genitalia, male (penis) and female (vagina) . There are 2 genders, male and female, which are assigned at birth according the which genitalia the baby has! And you can identify as a orange penguin if you like, but it doesn't actually mean anything. If a human has a dick, it's male. Period. 

And I have never, or will never be a CIS anything. What a load of nonsense. I am a homosexual MALE. All this other rubbish I want nothing to do with. 

Nature fucks up in many ways. Some people are born without a forearm. Some people are born autistic. Some people are born with Down syndrome. some people would die if they ate a snickers bar without modern medicine to save them from nut allergy . 
Nature can screw up in so many different ways. 
 

Do you really think it is impossible that nature sometime fucks up and build a person with male brain structures in a female body, or the reverse?
 

Another point to consider: Do you really think that all the trans people who go through very expensive surgery, with all the post surgery pains, potential complications, have to take weekly needle shots of hormones, become infertile, and deal all their life with all the social stigma associated with being trans, etc.,  do all of it “just for fun”?
Why would they do all of that if being trans isn’t a real experience?
If being born in the wrong body isn’t a real thing, why would they go through all these hurdles and not choose the easy path, and just stay the gender they were assigned at birth?

Being trans is real. All trans people tell us that. I have dated several trans men and I assure you they really are men who were trapped in a female body which they were carefully trying to modify so that they could appear as men and live their lives as the real men they are. 
 

Just because you were lucky enough to be born in a body that matches your internal experience and gender identity, doesn’t mean that everybody is the same as you. Nature just didn’t screw up with you as much as it did with them. 

And if you think they are too small a minority to recognise, then by that logic straight people were right to refuse to recognise us because we gays are also too small a minority to matter to them.

[spoon]

Naturally, gay is unnatural. Men should like women and vice versa. 🙃

[thaiophilus]

Two observations.

1) "Woke", like "politically correct" before it, is only used non-ironically by Daily Mail readers (for non-British readers, insert the equivalent newspaper or "news" channel).

2) Biology is complicated, more complicated than most people can imagine or understand. If you think there are just "2 types" of anything in biology you aren't qualified to discuss it.