Michelangelo's David Deemed Pornographic in Florida

[xpaulo]

" team members shower together."  A follow up that is I lived and worked in Germany for a period and there seemed to be a separation between attitudes about nudity for sexual and non-sexual purposes. I was at a hockey arena to do some interviews and was told to wait outside the locker room for the players to come out after they showered and changed. I noticed while I was waiting that the players wives and children were also in the locker room and saw the players walking naked to and from the showers. There also appeared to be group changing rooms for families at community sports facilities. In that context, nudity in art/sports is not a big deal. But my impression was nudity in tv and movies seemed to be similar to its treatment in Canada and the U.S.

[KYTOP]

1 hour ago, Marc in Calif said:

The subject "gender studies" is not taught in K-12 schools in the United States. It was developed exclusively at the college level. 

Sorry to tell you but they are in some schools. I've had 2 of my grandchildren come home asking about puberty blockers from what they learned in class. 

[Marc in Calif]

40 minutes ago, KYTOP said:

Sorry to tell you but they are in some schools. I've had 2 of my grandchildren come home asking about puberty blockers from what they learned in class. 

That's not called "gender studies" at all. It's a topic in science and health. What's the name of the class/course where they heard about puberty blockers? 

It's similar to people foaming at the mouth when children learn some historical facts about slavery. They cry, "Our children are learning Critical Race Theory!"

Please calm down. 😇

[Suckrates]

9 hours ago, KYTOP said:

Correction from my part. It is not a religious school, it is a Charter School that does not charge tuition. Many charter schools receive state tax funds to operate.

I had seen other media reports that had referred to the school as religious. Also the Statue is and will continue to be part of the art class, just parental notification will take place before the class.

 https://www.cnn.com/style/article/florida-principal-fired-david-statue/index.html

I don't understand were MAGA comes into parents wanting to be involved in their kids education. I live in a Democratic majority liberal city in what is considered by many a Red state with a Democrat Governor. Upset parents here are of all political leanings.

Parents can and SHOULD certainly have a say in the education of their kids,  but the issues only seem to be ones that GOP are bringing to the forefront especially involving 

rights of Gays and people of color.   This is surely strategic on the part of the GOP... What is enraging is that they are against Drag queens reading to kids and the teaching of black history because they call it "dangerous",  but GUNS killing kids in their classrooms seems perfectly fine for them.   Any of you HERE agreeing with their discriminatory agenda are complicit and as deplorable as the GOP are, and it appears that most of the parental dissent is coming from those leaning towards Christian Nationalism and its agenda aligned with the GOP..... So those claiming NOT to have "read about it" are reading with their eyes CLOSED, probably ON PURPOSE ? .  

[KYTOP]

1 hour ago, Marc in Calif said:

Please calm down. 😇

How do you calm down when kids in high school do not know civics, can't spell worth sh*t much less make a complete sentence, can't do basic math without a calculator on their phone and the list is endless. I have 4 grandkids in this failing system. The issue is why aren't they being taught basics to a competent level? Instead the schools just want to pass them thru. Why weren't they taught about the Vietnam war or other wars for that matter?

Stop the unnecessary add-ons, stick to the basics first. This is any everybody, not Republican issue here. I guarantee you there are no MAGA Trump lovers among my family nor their neighbors(that I know), that have had enough with what they started realizing during at home Covid Zoom education. 

[vinapu]

20 hours ago, xpaulo said:

This anti-whatever it is seems to be happening in various countries including Canada where I live. But it hasn't taken hold here so far to the extent it has in the United States. 

 

cooler weather makes for cooler heads perhaps

[PeterRS]

16 hours ago, reader said:

Don't know how the Florida lady would come down on this phallus display but Thais don't seem to have any problem with it.

Perhaps this is because the phallus plays such a prominent part in most Asian cultures and has done so throughout millennia. In Japan one of the most famous matsuri (local festivals) is that at Kawasaki and its Kanamara Phallus Festival. It draws massive crowds each year. 

In India and Nepal sexual couplings are far from unusual decoration at temples. These were among 100 or more I saw in the town of Patan in the Katmandu Valley.

 

In India there are erotic carvings in many cities, notably in Khajuraho. 

The erotic wood print and other carvings and paintings from Japan, Korea and China had better not be shown to religious Americans who clearly might end up with serious mental issues!! 🤣

[caeron]

Keying off KYTOP's comments, I tend to agree that education is a mess. I think it is a mess in large part because society devalues it so much. We expect teachers to be miracle workers for shit wages and then justify it by saying they get summers off. Teachers catch heaps of shit from people who can't be bothered to engage with their own children. If any of these parents gave a fuck, they'd know what their kids were learning.

A long time ago, women had few career opportunities so whip smart women became teachers for shit wages because they had no other choices. We had great schools on the backs of trapped women. Now they do have other choices, and they take them.

I looked into teaching as a second career and laughed at the pay scale. I wasn't expecting much, but it was pathetic enough to make me lose all interest. It is about as easy to become a nurse and earn 50% more, never mind that nurses have many more career opportunities and choices available.  Only the most dedicated, or those without much other choice would choose that occupation in my opinion. Building an education that depends on effectively secular nuns is idiotic.

Shiny new bombs and guns? Buy them all!

Invest in people? What are you a pinko socialist? A Liberal elite?

I think the evidence of the consequences of that are everywhere to be seen in US politics.

We have deified ignorance.

What has been the effect of this new understanding of the state of our education system? The call to ban more books. To teach less of this or that. Nowhere do I read about parents rising up because their children can't do algebra, read another language, write a coherent essay, or the like. No, the rage is all about culture war crap. It isn't about education at all.

Rant over.

[forky123]

Another school shooting. 9 year olds this time. Any person who wants to protect their child from seeing sculptures and reading words in books but not from a gun wielding psychopath should not breed. 

[Marc in Calif]

18 minutes ago, forky123 said:

Another school shooting. 9 year olds this time. Any person who wants to protect their child from seeing sculptures and reading words in books but not from a gun wielding psychopath should not breed. 

Those with grandchildren in school seem to worry more about which health topics are taught. They appear have no complaints about the second amendment (at least not voiced in these forums).

[JKane]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How much did he buy the first lady for anyway?  Easier to find her naked on the internet than his taxes!

[reader]

From Wikipedia

The Chao Mae Tuptim shrine (Thai: ศาลเจ้าแม่ทับทิม, RTGS: Thapthim, also known as Penis Shrine^[1) is a phallic shrine in Bangkok, Thailand, located behind the Mövenpick BDMS Wellness Resort Bangkok near the bank of the Khlong Saen Saep. The shrine was created in the first quarter of the 20th century by Thai businessman Nai Lert (1872-1945), who found a spirit house floating in the klong and placed it on the bank of his property. In Thailand, the phallus is considered to be a symbol of good luck and also a representative of fertility. The shrine is one of the best examples of intentional phallic architecture in the world. The site, which measures roughly 60 by 70 feet (18 m × 21 m), is now "crammed with carved" wooden penis statues, which are said to possess special cosmic powers and endow good fortune and fertility on anybody coming into contact with them. The size of the penis statues, which number well over 100, is said to range "[from] the size of a cream doughnut to the size of a canoe"; some are huge, some are humorous and painted pink to closely resemble a human phallus.

 

[thaiophilus]

Sadly for all my fellow phallophiles 🍆, some time after 2014 the shrine was moved to a smaller location in the hotel grounds and tidied up. (That photo is from 2008 and the wikipedia text hasn't been updated to reflect the move. ) This is how it looked 'before' in 2014 and 'after' in 2016. I only hope that since then people have been adding new content to restore it to something like its former glory :

2014:

2016:

[thaiophilus]

It's not just Asian cultures, of course. The Romans had some interesting ideas about wind chimes...

[PeterRS]

I think we should recall - unfortunately - that it was the not Repulicans who insisted on covering up the male penis. As Michelangelo, Donatello and CellinI were creating their magnificent nudes, if I recall correctly it was the rigidly austere Pope Paul IV in the mid-1550s who decided that such statues in Catholic Churches might corrupt those who happened to see them. This decrepit, rigidly austere Pope elected when he was 79 decided that anything imoral had to go. 

Called by all who encountered him as "God's wrath incarnate," Paul was universally loathed. In his book "Vicars of Christ: The Dark Side of the Papacy", Peter de Rosa, an alumnus of the Gregorian University in Rome, says of Paul IV -

"His massive head was shaped like Vesuvius in whose shaodow he was born. He, too, erupted without warning, spewing out destruction and death. His shaggy beard and craggy brow gave him a savage look; his cratered eyes, red and blotchy, shone like burning lava. His cracked voice, seldom free from catarrh, rolled and thundered, demanding instant, blind obedience." (Shades of Trump perhaps?)

Paul in his dotage decided that dicks on male nudes in the Vatican were out and concrete fig leaves were in. Not to be too hard (oops) on the male figures, his decision quickly spread to all genitalia, buttocks and womens' breatsts - all the fun bits as one wag remarked. Paul's edict was eventually formalised at the Council of Trent's 1563 decree banning all "lasciviousness" in religious imagery, although I'm not sure how women's breasts evaded the ban. Popes who followed him were equally anti-dick. Fortunately Michelangelo's nudes in the Sistine Chapel's magnificent frescoes were not regarded as statues.

 

[KYTOP]

20 hours ago, Marc in Calif said:

Those with grandchildren in school seem to worry more about which health topics are taught. They appear have no complaints about the second amendment (at least not voiced in these forums).

I assume this comment is aimed at me sense I think I am the only poster that mentioned being a Grandparent. At first I intended to ignore this but I now have decided to give you a long response, which I am sure you will have a snarky response to. 

I was one of the Original members here when OZ started this site. It is posters like you, with your snarky remarks, being the reason I seldom post anymore. At my age I hate drama, arguing, and people that have no respect for other peoples concerns or opinions.

Now let me tell you a little about me before you try to imply I do not care about the safety of my Grandchildren. For the long timers here they know me as a guy that was lucky enough to spend 10 years of my life traveling the world, due to lots of vacation time, the states for work and from hiring escorts well over 100 escorts during this time period and writing reviews. Gosh I had a great time!!!!! I have had the pleasure to meet several long term posters going back to the Hooboy days.

One rule of these sites is to always protect ones privacy but I will give up some of it today for you 'Mr Doesn't care about your Grandkids education' and who seems to think I am terrible because I do. Caring for them IS my job and not yours anyway. Now on to the Second Amendment.

I am a retired EMT, Paramedic, and Emergency Services Director of a very large Multi-State Ambulance (EMS) Service in flyover country in the USA.

In 1989 I was the second EMS responder to a mass shooting at a factory. This is an abbreviated version. My first sight when entering thru swinging doors was a Police officer standing over a man down with his gun still pointed downward at him. It was the shooter who had killed himself. (Ended up he had severe mental issues and had been fired from there due to his behavior). Blew his face clean off, the cop wouldn't have let me check him if I had wanted to. I suddenly realized I was stomping thru several inches of water everywhere. Bullets had pierced over head water pipes and the water was red from blood. I then came to a screaming man, I can still hear his screams, holding his leg. His knee was completely blown out sideways. HE was not critical, had him to hold a bulky dressing to his knee and moved on, Triage. To my right was a breakroom, I found a man down under a table, I couldn't save him and I moved on.  Found another past the breakroom, couldn't save him, moved on. Found a man with a classic chest wound, no breath sounds in one lung. I can save him if I can get him to the hospital for surgery, We saved him that day. WE quickly handed him off at the Trauma center with a quick verbal report and returned to the scene. My knee guy was still there, we grabbed him and a walking wounded, arm I think and treated and transported both together. The shooter used a AK-47 and a 9mm handgun. 9 people died that day and 12 were injured that survived. I still remember pouring bloody water from my boots and squeezing the bloody water from my socks. As a person with Rank I wore a White Uniform shirt. I doubt if you can imagine what the shirt looked like.  This is what comes back to me when I hear of mass shootings.

A couple of months later responded to a bank robbery shooting. Found people hiding under desks, in closets and in the vault. I've seen people that have had blown their brains out on the walls and ceiling committing suicide. Seen people live after blowing their face off trying to kill themselves but missed the brain and top of their head. Gunshot wounds with a small entrance but a big exit from the body. Please don't lecture me about mass shootings and my grandkids safety. Please do not lecture about guns. Go make more snarky comments.

I lost count long long a go as to the number of dead people I have seen from guns and other things. As the boss in my younger days I would still ride out on the units. Yes kids injured or dead were always rough. As I got older I stayed behind the desk more.

I do not expect the Second Amendment to change in my lifetime and probably not my kids, or grandkids for that matter. Screaming, shouting, calling people hateful names and MAGA supporters will not change that. My family is from a very rural area. Their guns, horses, land, and cows are very important to them. They are some of the most loving and caring people you could ever meet and yes many of them go to church on Sunday. Give you the shirt off their back if you needed it, but not their gun. They love their guns and they are good people. I do not own a gun. Gave the shotgun I received for my 16th birthday away when my first child was born.

All we can do is try harder to keep guns away from certain people , like people with mental issues and convicted felony offenders, etc... Wish I did have an answer. In Nashville it seems the school did everything right. Doors all locked, a good alarm system, staff and students knew were to hide and what to do but still 6 died. Yes this is beyond sad and of course I am concerned about the safety of my grandchildren. 

But when it comes to Deaths I have seen. Ever taken a crying baby from a car seat while it's mother is dead behind the wheel from being hit by a drunk driver? That baby never got to know its mother. Tended to a pedestrian struck and killed by a drunk driver? Picked the brains of a drunk driver off the interstate after he got on going the wrong way and hit a semi head on with both going full speed? His body and car metal blended together into a bloody mass. Top of his skull popped and yes his brains were lying outside the car on the highway. I DO NOT drink either.

 I will add to this long post with... In the last several years on the Job I had the pleasure to become involved with some national trade groups and we went to DC 4-5 times a year to lobby congress as a volunteer organization. This firmed up me being a moderate, that votes for BOTH Democrats and Republicans. I have had great conversations with several of both parties and never once screamed at them or called them names. I enjoy political conversations but steer clear when it is not a respected conversation but insults name and calling if you barely disagree. I always said back then that there is not a Thousand dollar check difference between a Democrat or a Republican. I guess today with inflation its a $2500 check or more.

As I have written this I have calmed abit.... So yes again, of course I care about the safety of my grandchildren AND their education. I hope it makes you feel real good for to question that. Now Lecture me again with your snarky comments. Have a good one and take care.

I have had a wonderful life and I do believe I have helped a few people along the way. Now back to my retirement.

[PeterRS]

1 hour ago, KYTOP said:

All we can do is try harder to keep guns away from certain people , like people with mental issues and convicted felony offenders, etc... Wish I did have an answer. In Nashville it seems the school did everything right. Doors all locked, a good alarm system, staff and students knew were to hide and what to do but still 6 died. Yes this is beyond sad and of course I am concerned about the safety of my grandchildren. 

Firstly thank you for your excellent, thought-provoking post. I think all sane people surely agree with you - "Wish I did have an answer." Never having been married I do not have grandchildren but my brother and sister each have two children and four grandkids between them. My sister now lives in Scotland not far from where the massacre of school kids took place in Dunblane in 1996. That shooter killed 16 young children, a teacher and injured 15 others. As so often in these ghastly events, he ended up by taking his own life.

That massacre of young lives led directly to a tightening of gun legislation and a banning of the private ownership of most guns in the UK. With more guns in the USA than people, that is never going to happen there. But what I find most strange is the fascination many Americans have with guns in this day and age. @KYTOP refers to it in his post. Why is it necessary for an individual to own several guns - and take pride in them? They are instruments of death in the wrong hands. Yes, I know knives, cars and blunt instruments can and do also cause death. But it seems to me that 99.9% of guns require the deliberate action of an individual. Whenever kids and others are murdered, the right led by the NRA - and I guess some on the left as well - keep harping on about mental health being one of the main causes rather than the ownership of or access to a gun. From what we learn,  I suspect this is partly true - but how you describe someone who shoots his former work colleagues only because he got in his view unfairly fired as being mentally unsound to me stretches the limit of what is "mental health". And as I have written on a simiar subject before, how on God's good earth do you run checks on the mental health of all citizens? They may be perfectly sane prior to the purchase of a gun, and then go to pieces afterwards. There is absolutely no way you can keep tabs on the mental health of the vast majority of gun owners.

Then there is the issue of weapons designed for use on the battlefield being all but freely available for purchase in the USA. For what reason are these frightful instruments of death permitted on American streets? Those who shout Second Amendment will no doubt be aware that there is considerable and continuing controversy about the precise meaning of the wording of that Clause. Those that framed it had never heard of high capacity automatic and semi-automatic guns designed specifically to kill large numbers of people. The Constitution of a country cannot be set in stone. As a huge array of technological and other advances occur over time, so a Constitution needs to be sufficiently flexible to take them into account. But I am not an American citizen and that is an issue for them.  

[caeron]

@KYTOP

While I'm a democrat, I have, in fact, voted for republicans in the past. But, the republican party that was is no more. Maybe they're rediscover themselves. I hope so. I couldn't possibly support any republican today. It no longer has any ideas. It is just a mass of screaming infantile rage at the world for not all being stuck in the 1950s. It is a party that has lost the culture war, but is going to burn down as much as it can as it goes.

My father is buried in Arlington. My older brother served in multiple combat operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. I wanted to serve but wasn't going to lie about not being a faggot to serve. I knew how that would go. But, I really did want to be a career navy officer. They used to talk about all the talent the gay witch hunts lost. They never talked about those of us who looked at it and never chose to join.

I really, really want to love this country. Today, I can't. I have been shown how many of my fellow Americans want to be Nazis. I have been show how little compassion many of my fellow Americans have.

I can't bring myself to love that truth.

[Marc in Calif]

18 hours ago, KYTOP said:

All we can do is try harder to keep guns away from certain people , like people with mental issues and convicted felony offenders, etc...

No, that is not ALL we can do. We can and must do better.

We've done so much else to change our society for the better. Giving up implies that we don't care anymore. 

[KYTOP]

19 hours ago, PeterRS said:

Then there is the issue of weapons designed for use on the battlefield being all but freely available for purchase in the USA. For what reason are these frightful instruments of death permitted on American streets? Those who shout Second Amendment will no doubt be aware that there is considerable and continuing controversy about the precise meaning of the wording of that Clause. Those that framed it had never heard of high capacity automatic and semi-automatic guns designed specifically to kill large numbers of people. The Constitution of a country cannot be set in stone. As a huge array of technological and other advances occur over time, so a Constitution needs to be sufficiently flexible to take them into account. But I am not an American citizen and that is an issue for them.  

I try to be realistic with this topic since I know first hand what a gun can do to the human body. 

First, the US Constitution can changed by being amended. The Second Amendment itself is is such a change. BUT.... 2/3 of both the US House and US Senate, a super majority, must ratify the change then it goes to the states were again 2/3 of the states must approve the change. And all states are equal, no allowances for population, size, etc... California is equal to Montana each has 1 vote. That just Ain't goin' happen in regards to guns. The South and Plains states will never vote yes.

Another way is for 2/3 of the states to by-pass congress and and call for a Constitutional Convention. There has been talk about this on and off in my lifetime for a Constitutional update and rewrite. Again it just Ain't goin' happen. You couldn't get 2/3's to decide on lunch tomorrow.

Second, there are already strict federal and state laws banning the sale or possession of firearms (of any type) by felons. Yet I understand most of the guns confiscated by the police are from convicted felons. This greatly affects the country's murder rate. But know what? That restriction just ain't working. 

Third, Mental illness. Our country takes great effort to protect the privacy of a persons health records, including mental health. So some may say anyone seen or admitted to a psych facility, treated for depression, threatened harm to their self or others should have their guns rights revoked. Their health records are private so it ain't goin' to happen. If you could somehow do this they will still get a gun just like a felon gets one. Honestly weapons' in the hands of the mentally ill has always been my biggest concern. Many of these persons also seem to access their families weapons. So do you take away their Family's gun rights. Ain't goin' happen.

Fourth, The US had an assault weapons' ban from 1994 until 2004. It had a 10 year sunset clause unless renewed by Congress, they didn't.  It forbid the manufacture of certain assault weapons in the US and the sale or transfer of those weapons plus restrictions on certain ammunition. BUT it had a  "Grandfather Clause" that said any such assault weapons and ammunition obtained BEFORE the effective date of the Ban were exempt from the law. There was a lot of debate about whether  the law was really effective, but it did withstand some legal challenges but never made it to the Supreme Court. This is the big restriction many politicians want to bring back. It may make them feel good and they can say "I did something" but it will not solve the problem. It didn't before, but hey "We did something." Take out the "Grandfather Clause" and hold on to your seat for all hell will break loose if a weapon confiscation is on the table.

Fifth, there have been attempts to pass laws to restrict guns from persons involved in domestic violence. But it seems these laws may not withstand legal challenges. One was just recently struck down.

Every time some horrible thing happens there is a "knee jerk" reaction to DO Something just to do something. These Knee Jerk reactions rarely work and calling people names because they have or own guns does nothing. The vast majority of gun owners are responsible and would never think of harming someone with their gun.

Anyone concerned with gun laws and rights, should be as familiar with DC vs Heller as they were aware of Roe if they had concern for abortion rights. The Supreme Court Heller opinion, authored by conservative Justice Scalia, does allow some gun restrictions even though it did strike down DC's hand gun law. If you watched the Supreme Court nominations of Trump and Biden there were several questions about Heller and if the Supreme Court should revisit Heller.

Again, I wish I had an answer, but I don't. But I guarantee screaming, yelling, name calling and blaming those with opinions different than you, ain't goin' make any change either.

PS: Sorry your original thread has been hijacked. 

[Mavica]

And now we have an assumed to be transgender terrorist who killed innocents, children and others.  😔

[unicorn]

15 minutes ago, KYTOP said:

... then it goes to the states were again 2/3 of the states must approve the change...

Minor correction: 3/4 of the state legislatures must approve the change, in addition to 2/3 of the HR and Senate. 

[vinapu]

21 hours ago, PeterRS said:

Why is it necessary for an individual to own several guns - and take pride in them?

America's way of reducing overpopulation?

[PeterRS]

3 hours ago, KYTOP said:

PS: Sorry your original thread has been hijacked.

Another perceptive and enlightening post. Thank you. And I do not think you have hijacked the thread. it is after all about banning something. A Supreme Court that approves extending gun rights is just nuts in my view. Everyone can see that the US Supreme Court is totally fucked up. A Supreme Court that is appointed by politicians and is essentially a political instrument - and increasingly political from what I see at a distance - ignores what the founding fathers intended, again in my view.

[KYTOP]

4 hours ago, unicorn said:

Minor correction: 3/4 of the state legislatures must approve the change, in addition to 2/3 of the HR and Senate. 

Thanks for the correction. That is probably one of the Questions I got wrong on my last civics test from over 50 years ago.🤔