Current tourism numbers-and identities- in Thailand

[Londoner]

Has anyone any views as to the state of tourism in Thailand at the moment? I've been here twelve days and  offer my totally subjective impressions of what I've seen in Bangkok, Koh Samui  and Pattaya.

BKK was more crowded than on my previous two post-Covid visits (November and July), so much so that I used the Priority Immigration queue for the first time. In fact , there was no queue, I waltzed through.

My traditional first Thailand dinner in Balcony revealed a vibrant Soi 4; subsequent wanderings-admittedly early in the night-  suggested a very different picture. But thirty-six hours in Bangkok isn't enough to make any relevant  observations as to the number of tourists overall.

Koh Samui flights were full but our hotel, situated about four kms outside Chaweng, was only at around 50% capacity. We  looked at Chaweng only once- not a very impressive place in our view- but it seemed lively enough though not as lively as on my previous visit. Memory plays tricks....that trip was in 1998!

Returning to Jomtien, again on a full flight, I could only term the numbers of tourists ( particularly our gay brethren, of which more later) as disappointing. It is true that Terminus 21 and the new food market just outside were busy but the punters were predominantly Thai. A nearby music even may have contributed to this.

But gay tourists? Here's the rub. i'm no longer a bar-goer but I do enjoy a wander around from time to time while P is otherwise engaged, welcoming the banter with guys in the bars. And sadly, it looked to me as if they far out-numbered falangs in the JC. Too many were transfixed by their phones because  the punters were so few. I must admit that, again, I was early ....about 2130?....but my impression was confirmed by one of the masseurs who was adamant that business was worse now than in November. Admittedly it's now low-season

I also note that my hotel clientele, hitherto very gay-disposed, is now overwhelmingly straight. Mainly older couples. And, I believe,  Russian.

Have other visitors or ex-pats drawn other conclusions? perhaps  I have i  into print to early in my stay? I'd welcome other views.

And just a final word.....we're having a great time. Again. Come and join us!

 

 

 

[gayinpattaya]

Low season is starting to bite in Jomtien complex, that's for sure. Bars are looking a lot more empty than they did only a few weeks ago. A group of us went up to Pattaya for dinner Saturday just gone. We were shocked at how busy walking street and central Pattaya bars and streets were in comparison to Jomtien Complex / BoyzTown.

We came to the conclusion that the city is still packed, but the gays are flying somewhere else. Mexico & Colombia are places I hear a lot about. 

If you want to scale how busy the city is, look at the motorbike rental shops. In May/June, they have dozens outside. Over Christmas and New Year, it was near impossible to find one to rent. This week, the shops are starting to get a couple out front again with "For Rent" signs. 

[fedssocr]

I've been in Bangkok for a week. I haven't been here since 2019. I haven't noticed large numbers of tourists. But I will also note that it's just too damn hot. Even if you were escaping northern winter, I think it's just unbearable. Add in the pollution situation and I am not sure this time of year is really a good measure of the amount of tourists or trends. 

[forky123]

35 minutes ago, gayinpattaya said:

If you want to scale how busy the city is, look at the motorbike rental shops. In May/June, they have dozens outside. Over Christmas and New Year, it was near impossible to find one to rent. This week, the shops are starting to get a couple out front again with "For Rent" signs. 

A couple? Some places I've seen have 20 to 30 bikes for rent.

I often come March time but this is my first visit since before Covid. Many places seem busier than I expected but it seems the demographics have changed. There appear far more Russians both young and old. I've also read that condo's, etc are being snapped up mainly in Phuket but also in Pattaya with people avoiding conscription. A number of gay massage shops have disappeared and the ones remaining seem fairly quiet. I did recently see an entire troop of female Chinese tourists invade Relax massage and utilise pretty much every masseur so it looks like they are coming back also now Covid restrictions are lifted. 

[reader]

I had two long (eight week) visits last year) and generally found Soi 4 busy almost every evening with a mixture of locals and tourists. The show bars there and elsewhere were doing a respectable business. Since I spent much more time in the massage shops, I have more confidence in my comments about those. More than half the time I chose shops in the Saphan Kwai area where I had--with few exceptions--consistently good luck. In the Silom-Surawong rectangle, I found it's hard to miss among the all-male shops on Silom Soi Six. I can't comment on the new 9-Teen shop because it hadn't yet opened before I left. From what I've heard from members since it did open its doors is that the facilities are good but it won't take on non-Thai masseurs.

I keep in touch with some of the massage boys I've known for several years and they tell me that business continues to be fairly brisk with international visitors steadily increasing. But even these guys echo what fedssocr says about the midday heat. On sunny days, customers don't tend to arrive in numbers until after 1600 but continue late into the evening.

There are many other shops to explore in the area along Surawong, Silom, Silom Plaza, Saladeang and--for those who like to walk--Soi Suan Plu.

[gerefan]

I noticed Jomtien seemed to get quieter from the end of February. 
 

Perhaps a little earlier than normal but if farangs took out the usual 90 day visas to avoid the European winter and left in early December, to take advantage of the cheaper fares before Christmas, then they would be due to return early March. 
 

Nothing unusual! I was one of them!

[gayinpattaya]

7 hours ago, forky123 said:

A couple? Some places I've seen have 20 to 30 bikes for rent.

You are correct. I had a look around this afternoon and there are a LOT of bikes for rent now. Numbers have dropped more than I thought. 

[vinapu]

when I look at airfares now I'm not surprised that numbers of farangs is down. From where I'm fares for May are fully 70% higher than for exactly same dates I went last May

[Boy69]

18 hours ago, gayinpattaya said:

We came to the conclusion that the city is still packed, but the gays are flying somewhere else. Mexico & Colombia are places I hear a lot about. 

I think the Thai gay gold era passed long time ago because of many reasons the main ones : too many regulations imposed by the Thai governmen on entertainment industry,  too many restrictions on the immigration policy and prices gone up dramatically. Let's face it Thailand is still beutiful and fun country to visit but not as used to be. I agree many gays found other options in South America mainly Colombia, Brazil and Mexico. I had been in Colombia first time on last November-December I was shocked to find out the boys are much cheaper  than Thailand and the variety  is really amazing from blacks to blondes many choices to choose from for every taste. 

[Travellerdave]

I’ve been visiting Thailand now for more than 20 years as a gay tourist and very much agree that its attractiveness for us has declined over those years. There are no statistics  giving the numbers of gays and str but I’m sure the proportion of gays would be now a lot less than previously, which is reflected in the much reduced numbers of bars and gogos and the decline of the Pattaya gay beach. The scandal of under-age sex which surfaced in the years 2000 to 2005  was a major blow to Thai gay tourism and I think it still reverberates.  The attractiveness of Thai boys and their availability has reduced considerably due to the availability of other economic options for them. I’ve never been to South America but that might change noting what Boy69 has just said. Before discovering LOS I spent my holidays in Spanish resorts like Playa del Ingles and Benidorm but the experience there was rather different with minimal commercial sex and I was a lot younger and considerably more attractive on the beaches there.

[floridarob]

6 hours ago, Travellerdave said:

which is reflected in the much reduced numbers of bars and gogos and the decline of the Pattaya gay beach.

The apps made it easier to find customers without having to show up somewhere and gyrate on stage for hours, maybe without an off for days. I'm sure this has helped in the decline too....

[Marc in Calif]

8 hours ago, Travellerdave said:

The attractiveness of Thai boys and their availability has reduced considerably due to the availability of other economic options for them.

Do you mean that the really "attractive" guys have moved to jobs other than sex worker?

Or do you mean that the attractiveness of Thai guys has declined. 😇

[Travellerdave]

Marc - sorry that’s a rather clumsy sentence I included in my post.

To clarify :

1. I would say the number of sex workers (attractive or not) looking for business in Thai resorts has declined over the years due to better education and more job opportunities in manufacturing or tourism

2. has the attractiveness of Thai Guys declined ?. That’s an interesting question. As to their physical shape I would say probably yes. More consumption of Western food and less physical toil in the rice fields being responsible. As to their outlook on life, probably not. I still find them enjoyable to socialise with and their English language ability has on average improved over the years. Many boys with virtually zero English when commencing their careers in the sex industry make rapid progress and after six months are even able to conduct a  conversation. Some ability in English is usually regarded as an asset by their farang customers, as few native English language speakers take the trouble to learn any Thai.

[Boy69]

37 minutes ago, Travellerdave said:

Marc - sorry that’s a rather clumsy sentence I included in my post.

To clarify :

1. I would say the number of sex workers (attractive or not) looking for business in Thai resorts has declined over the years due to better education and more job opportunities in manufacturing or tourism

2. has the attractiveness of Thai Guys declined ?. That’s an interesting question. As to their physical shape I would say probably yes. More consumption of Western food and less physical toil in the rice fields being responsible. As to their outlook on life, probably not. I still find them enjoyable to socialise with and their English language ability has on average improved over the years. Many boys with virtually zero English when commencing their careers in the sex industry make rapid progress and after six months are even able to conduct a  conversation. Some ability in English is usually regarded as an asset by their farang customers, as few native English language speakers take the trouble to learn any Thai.

I find Thai boys are more attractive then they used to be in the past I agree it's partly because of consumption of Western food and mainly because of the Western culture growing influence on the younger generation , unfortunately the boys whom work at the gay venues are less attractive then they used to be and the choices are very limited nowdays to be more over less Thais are wiling to work at the sdx industry due the huge improvement in the Thai economy at the last decade and more non Thai boys took their place instead. 

[reader]

From Thailand News Agwenxcy

Thailand Records 5 Million Foreign Arrivals

BANGKOK, March 22 (TNA) – Thailand welcomed more than 5.5 million foreign tourists in the first three months of this year, generating an income of 200 billion baht, said Deputy Government Spokesperson Traisulee Traisaranakul.

The country’s overall tourism situations have improved continuously. However, the increase in tourist numbers has caused airport congestion at check-in counters, immigration checkpoints. The airfares are soaring.   

She said the Transport Ministry convened a meeting today with agencies concerned such as the Airports of Thailand to discuss how to solve the problem.

According to the Tourism and Sports Ministry, 5.5 million foreign tourists travelled to Thailand from Jan 1- March 18 with tourism revenue reaching more than 215 billion baht. (TNA)    

[fedssocr]

aren't most of those "tourists" just cross-border traffic from Malaysia?

[Riobard]

50 minutes ago, fedssocr said:

aren't most of those "tourists" just cross-border traffic from Malaysia?

Seems a large proportion, and disproportionate rebound of 50% of pre-CoV comparator relative to composite of other nations 25%. This piece is detailed up to end of ‘22, allowing comparison to 1st quarter ‘23. The rebound metric improves when prorating the recent quarter against ‘22.

Notable from ‘23 piece is the reference to burdened infrastructure yet tourist volume remains quite short of 20teens. 

https://m.thaiwebsites.com/tourists-nationalities-Thailand.asp
 

[abidismaili]

On 3/21/2023 at 9:09 AM, vinapu said:

when I look at airfares now I'm not surprised that numbers of farangs is down. From where I'm fares for May are fully 70% higher than for exactly same dates I went last May

Agree. Direct flight Amsterdam to Bangkok used to be in the 700-800 EUR range. Now 1200-1300. It makes me go now only one time a year. In stead of two or three. 

I am back now after one year. I notice in the big street near BoyTown there are less massage shops with boys. They used to have a few along 2nd Beach Road opposite BoyzTown

[abidismaili]

On 3/21/2023 at 1:18 PM, Boy69 said:

I think the Thai gay gold era passed long time ago because of many reasons the main ones : too many regulations imposed by the Thai governmen on entertainment industry,  too many restrictions on the immigration policy and prices gone up dramatically. Let's face it Thailand is still beutiful and fun country to visit but not as used to be. I agree many gays found other options in South America mainly Colombia, Brazil and Mexico. I had been in Colombia first time on last November-December I was shocked to find out the boys are much cheaper  than Thailand and the variety  is really amazing from blacks to blondes many choices to choose from for every taste. 

Does Colombia have gogo bars and bars like in Jomtien? What city did you visit ? You mainly used the gay dating apps? 

[abidismaili]

On 3/22/2023 at 2:50 AM, Boy69 said:

I find Thai boys are more attractive then they used to be in the past I agree it's partly because of consumption of Western food and mainly because of the Western culture growing influence on the younger generation , unfortunately the boys whom work at the gay venues are less attractive then they used to be and the choices are very limited nowdays to be more over less Thais are wiling to work at the sdx industry due the huge improvement in the Thai economy at the last decade and more non Thai boys took their place instead. 

 Not a good explanation in my view. These other opportunities pay far and far less. Having 5 customers a week gives you 7500 baht a week. What other job gives them that ?

[abidismaili]

3 hours ago, abidismaili said:

 Not a good explanation in my view. These other opportunities pay far and far less. Having 5 customers a week gives you 7500 baht a week. What other job gives them that ?

I forgot to add: what other job gives them so much free time ?

 

money boy still earns way better and gives much more free time. 

[vinapu]

5 hours ago, abidismaili said:

These other opportunities pay far and far less. Having 5 customers a week gives you 7500 baht a week. What other job gives them that ?

one of my boys working in supermarket, not sure in what capacity told me he brings 10800 / month. Since he did not ask me for anything i assume it must be accurate

[macaroni21]

@abidismaili mentioned 7500 a week, so that's about 30000 a month. 10800 in a supermarket is a third of that.

That said, sex work is not regular work for most of them in the trade. It would be nice to get 5 clients a week, but I reckon many do not.

Also, social shame and the ickiness factor of going body to body with someone who could be your grandfather can make the supermarket career option way more attractive by comparison.

 

[reader]

1 hour ago, macaroni21 said:

Also, social shame and the ickiness factor of going body to body with someone who could be your grandfather can make the supermarket career option way more attractive by comparison.

The massage shop guys I keep in touch with (all in Silom area) report having a minimum of two customers today and on busy weekend days 3-4.

I mentioned this before but I think it's worth repeating here. They much prefer older (grandfather type) clients because they consistently tip better and are more appreciative and respectful. Younger clients (particularly those from northeast Asia where is no tipping culture) are generally poor tippers.

I believe the "ickiness" factor is a more western concept. I have yet to experience it and I'm certainly older enough to be their grandfather. I wouldn't be returning 2-3 times a year to bkk if I did.

[vinapu]

6 hours ago, macaroni21 said:

@abidismaili mentioned 7500 a week, so that's about 30000 a month. 10800 in a supermarket is a third of that.

That said, sex work is not regular work for most of them in the trade. It would be nice to get 5 clients a week, but I reckon many do not.

Also, social shame and the ickiness factor of going body to body with someone who could be your grandfather can make the supermarket career option way more attractive by comparison.

 

you are right on both accounts, even attractive boys have empty handed streaks  going without offs for days on.

as for ickiness , my supermarket guy  told  me  he is quite selective when comes to customers and no, he is not going with everybody who engages him over Grindr , using similar tactic some customers are using  - meeting first outside of hotel and yes I can say I was semi witness of that - met him on the street on my way to Patpong and his to meet client in somewhere in soi 6. Soon after I saw him walking alone along Suriwong so I guess , no deal .

But bottom line will be, unless we spy on guy 7/24 we don't really know how busy and how compensated they are. As we all know refrain

' no customers" ' is most often repeated statement  we hear from boys  and this is accompanied with frequent posts on social media showing them dining in fancy places , basking in the sun in fancy resorts etc. and showing off new motorcycles.

Because of that I'm not really concerned , trusting that they, having most accurate information are making informed decisions about their careers.