You know you lost the war when they laugh in your face

[tassojunior]

1 minute ago, unicorn said:

Factually wrong, as I'm fairly sure you know. First of all, the "vote" in the Donbas occurred only after the Russian invasion, with "voters" under the watchful eyes of armed Russian soldiers.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/23/europe/occupied-ukraine-referendum-russia-intl-hnk/index.html

Secondly, that agreement was never passed in the first place:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agreement_on_settlement_of_political_crisis_in_Ukraine

Russian Federation:
Refused to sign 

What Russia did agree to was to respect the 1994 borders in return for Ukraine surrendering their nuclear weapons to Russia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum#:~:text=The "Budapest Memorandum" is actually,States%2C United Kingdom and Russia.

According to the three memoranda,[6] Russia, the US and the UK confirmed their recognition of Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine becoming parties to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons and effectively abandoning their nuclear arsenal to Russia, and that they agreed to the following:

Respect the signatory's independence and sovereignty in the existing borders.[7]
Refrain from the threat or the use of force against the signatory.
Refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by the signatory of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind.
Seek immediate Security Council action to provide assistance to the signatory if they "should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used".
Refrain from the use of nuclear arms against the signatory.
Consult with one another if questions arise regarding those commitments

You really don't know anything about Ukraine pre-2022 do you? that's all the regime tells you and thinks you should know. There were votes years before in 7 provinces and in Luhansk and Donetsk there were overwhelming votes to leave Ukraine in heavily attended province-run elections. The other 5 called their vote off or voted to stay in Ukraine. Ukraine's response was to send troops in (the Nazi Azov Battalion) to kill 14,000 people in the separatist area. Separatists were dragged out in public for executions. There's a famous one of a mayor and his wife being hung on a gallows. Bodies of killed young men were left on their parents' doorsteps. Charming group that Nazi Azov Battalion. 

[vinapu]

5 hours ago, tassojunior said:

  Angela Merkel recently said the treaty was a farce to give Zelensky time to get US weapons to invade Donbas.

 

invade? since when entering own territory , even mutinous , is invasion ? Donbas is as much part of Ukraine as Chechnya is part of Russia.

USA can invade Canada but Wisconsin ? surely doesn't sound right

[vinapu]

6 hours ago, tassojunior said:

 Crimea, Yalta, Odessa have been Russian for hundreds of years.

 

Crimea ? not that many hundreds , perhpas 240 and it was were conquered after chasing  away Tatars from there. It's just Russian  war trophy 

Budapest belonged to Turkey 160 years from  1526 . Would you argue that Turkey has right to invade Hungary and reconquer it  ? 

Kaliningrad never belonged to Russia but it does now and nobody is questioning it

[tassojunior]

14 hours ago, vinapu said:

Crimea ? not that many hundreds , perhpas 240 and it was were conquered after chasing  away Tatars from there. It's just Russian  war trophy 

Budapest belonged to Turkey 160 years from  1526 . Would you argue that Turkey has right to invade Hungary and reconquer it  ? 

Kaliningrad never belonged to Russia but it does now and nobody is questioning it

so if Scotland votes for independence from UK you'd be fine with killing tens of thousands of Scots to prevent that separation? 

[tassojunior]

when it comes to the pro-war crowd in America, there are no limits. Here's Clinton's secretary of state explaining that killing a half-million children was well worth it to advance US interests. 

 

[unicorn]

On 3/13/2023 at 1:57 PM, tassojunior said:

...Yes it's easier for a country to govern when there's no dissent and everyone thinks the same. Yes, that's a good argument for news cycle propaganda narratives and censorship of news and facts. No, that's not a type government I want here and hope Russians and French and Chinese and Australians feel the same in their countries. 

Saying someone doesn't belong in their own country anymore because they don't support evil things their government does is not exactly novel.   

Dude. You previously promoted the idea that elections are freer in Russia than they are in the USA, now you're saying the press is freer in Russia? The country in which countless reporters (and others) who have been critical of the government get unceremoniously thrown out of windows, poisoned, and shot? That's not even mentioning what happens to even apolitical gay people. If that's really what you believe, I really don't understand why you don't live there. You can't seem to explain the contradiction between your words and your deeds. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11574603/Another-Putin-critic-falls-window-death-Tycoon-plummets-luxury-hotel-India.html

"Russia's 'highest-earning elected politician' who had criticized Vladimir Putin's war in Ukraine has been found dead after a mysterious fall from a hotel in India. Sausage multi-millionaire Pavel Antov, from the main pro-Putin party United Russia, had been on a trip to celebrate his upcoming 66th birthday. A male friend in his party had died 'from a heart attack' on Thursday last week, and the wealthy politician perished two days later...".

https://www.npr.org/2018/04/21/604497554/why-do-russian-journalists-keep-falling

https://www.newsweek.com/russians-keep-mysteriously-falling-windows-deaths-1738954

https://www.newsweek.com/every-russians-who-fell-death-ukraine-war-started-this-year-2022-pavel-antov-1769951

"Ravil Maganov, who was chairman of Lukoil, Russia's second-largest oil producer and biggest private oil company, was found dead on September 1. According to reports from Russian media outlets, he had fallen from the window of a hospital in Moscow. Russia's Interfax news agency said Maganov "fell from a window at Central Clinical Hospital and died from injuries sustained." But the reports did not explain why Maganov was in the hospital...".

[tassojunior]

4 hours ago, unicorn said:

Dude. You previously promoted the idea that elections are freer in Russia than they are in the USA, now you're saying the press is freer in Russia? The country in which countless reporters (and others) who have been critical of the government get unceremoniously thrown out of windows, poisoned, and shot? That's not even mentioning what happens to even apolitical gay people. If that's really what you believe, I really don't understand why you don't live there. You can't seem to explain the contradiction between your words and your deeds. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11574603/Another-Putin-critic-falls-window-death-Tycoon-plummets-luxury-hotel-India.html

"Russia's 'highest-earning elected politician' who had criticized Vladimir Putin's war in Ukraine has been found dead after a mysterious fall from a hotel in India. Sausage multi-millionaire Pavel Antov, from the main pro-Putin party United Russia, had been on a trip to celebrate his upcoming 66th birthday. A male friend in his party had died 'from a heart attack' on Thursday last week, and the wealthy politician perished two days later...".

https://www.npr.org/2018/04/21/604497554/why-do-russian-journalists-keep-falling

https://www.newsweek.com/russians-keep-mysteriously-falling-windows-deaths-1738954

https://www.newsweek.com/every-russians-who-fell-death-ukraine-war-started-this-year-2022-pavel-antov-1769951

"Ravil Maganov, who was chairman of Lukoil, Russia's second-largest oil producer and biggest private oil company, was found dead on September 1. According to reports from Russian media outlets, he had fallen from the window of a hospital in Moscow. Russia's Interfax news agency said Maganov "fell from a window at Central Clinical Hospital and died from injuries sustained." But the reports did not explain why Maganov was in the hospital...".

your quote: "Dude. You previously promoted the idea that elections are freer in Russia than they are in the USA, now you're saying the press is freer in Russia?"

I never said elections are freer or the press is freer in Russia or China or anywhere. Your mind is wandering or you're hallucinating or something. Maybe all the government brainwashing has got your mind on spin cycle. Where are my quotes on that? You accuse me of saying something I never said. 

What I will say is that the press and freedom of speech and thought is much less free in America than it used to be and for that we Americans are losing our uniqueness in the world and becoming much more like the other centralized totalitarian countries. You prefer to think what your government tells you to think and only know what it approves you to know. I'm sure that's comforting. It was in Germany and in the US leading up to Vietnam and Iraq. And it makes for an easy-flowing society with all one idea of what is "true". Maybe a "Ministry of Truth" like our government recently proposed. I bet Russia China and a host of countries sadly have those.

I'd rather take the harder road of knowing the facts and having access to them and a number of opinions and ideas to consider. That pragmatism is what made America great and made people want to come here and great things happen here. Not becoming robots for the state and silencing different ideas and experiments with different methods. Sadly, I fear America will devolve rapidly now into just another totalitarian state. Most nations have. And they're usually more efficient. Or at least easier to run. Every day our regime media minders will put out the daily spin of truth to be easy memorized by continual repetitions during the narrative cycle. It works for selling detergent and hamburgers. Why not wars? That's what we're in. Of course Sadaam has weapons of mass destruction, everyone and every news channel knows that. And killing a half million babies will slow him down. Everyone knows that. The government says it so it's true and all the pro-war media says it's true too. 

Noam Chomsky recently said the US has become the most propagandized nation because we don't realize we're being propagandized. People in Russia and China know they are. Even people in Europe know their governments conceal and lie. But we haven't caught on yet and that's why it's more dangerous here. On top of the desire to fit in and believe like everyone else, we're also still more gullible.

You prefer to believe the government "truth" because it's more comfortable. That comfort isn't worth killing people in wars to me. 

[unicorn]

10 minutes ago, tassojunior said:

your quote: "Dude. You previously promoted the idea that elections are freer in Russia than they are in the USA, now you're saying the press is freer in Russia?"

I never said elections are freer or the press is freer in Russia...

Noam Chomsky recently said the US has become the most propagandized nation...

Do you not even read what you write? You called news in the US "propaganda narratives," and use Noam Chomsky to support your narrative. I can't believe he's still alive, in any case.

Anyone familiar with Fox News and MSNBC knows that the news in the US present widely diverging opinions--just not so far as holocaust denial, such as promoted by Chomsky.  It's preposterous to believe that news in the US is a "government narrative," unlike in Russia (or China), where the press is only allowed to present the leader's views (and live). When was the last time the US government threw a reporter out a multi-story building's window?

[tassojunior]

[caeron]

 

War sucks. America's record is nothing to be proud of. We get fed a lot of propaganda about how great and noble and pure we are. We aren't. We're pretty mud splattered with espoused ideals that we frequently fail to live up to. Hell, right now many republicans don't even bother to espouse the ideals of democracy and freedom. But, if you think this is somehow new or different, you're naïve as fuck. We all believe lies about ourselves and always have.

But, Putin is a monster, and those in Russia who elected him repeatedly until he became absolute dictator, and then believe the lies they are told get to live the consequences of that. Kids in Russia who volunteer based on their idiocy reap the consequences of that idiocy. Our failings don't excuse other monstrosities.

I will never understand people's love of 'strong men'.  Why is it that people think that if they give all the power to the biggest bully around that it will end well for anybody except the bully?

Our best feature is that whoever the guy in charge is, he never stays long enough to gain enough power to allow him to let his own personal whims command the nation.

Hopefully we will keep staggering towards our ideals. At the moment, it feels like we've taken a break to puke in the gutter. I hope we get up and carry on.

 

[tassojunior]

The nice thing about the CIA running the news (excuse me, ex-CIA officers being the political writers) at the New York Times, Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, etc is that the subscriptions are now $1. Much cheaper than before they were regime -run. Cheap Wordle !

[tassojunior]

8 minutes ago, caeron said:

 

War sucks. America's record is nothing to be proud of. We get fed a lot of propaganda about how great and noble and pure we are. We aren't. We're pretty mud splattered with espoused ideals that we frequently fail to live up to. Hell, right now many republicans don't even bother to espouse the ideals of democracy and freedom.

But, Putin is a monster, and those in Russia who elected him repeatedly until he became absolute dictator, and then believe the lies they are told get to live the consequences of that. Kids in Russia who volunteer based on their idiocy reap the consequences of that idiocy. 

I will never understand people's love of 'strong men'.  Why is it that people think that if they give all the power to the biggest bully around that it will end well for anybody except the bully?

 

Putin is a weak leader who was installed by the US as a puppet and he is seen as weak by the Russian people. He did nothing when the US killed 200 Russians in one day when they attacked ISIS. He played around with Trump when the US did that and while Zelensky was killing 14,000 ethnic Russians in Donbas. The opposition to him is much harsher on the war with the US and Ukraine. Be careful what you wish for. 

 

[caeron]

3 minutes ago, tassojunior said:

Putin is a weak leader who was installed by the US as a puppet and he is seen as weak by the Russian people. He did nothing when the US killed 200 Russians in one day when they attacked ISIS. He played around with Trump when the US did that and while Zelensky was killing 14,000 ethnic Russians in Donbas. The opposition to him is much harsher on the war with the US and Ukraine. Be careful what you wish for. 

 

Wow. You think that Russians think that Putin is weak? You think we installed him? You think those kids you claim to know volunteered because they think their leader is weak? Do you even listen to yourself?

I hope your tin foil hat protects you from the mind control rays. You're too busy diddling your own conspiracy theories to see what's right in front of you. Putin is telling you, repeatedly, with his public words who he is. He is telling you he is a strong man who wants to reclaim the lost Soviet Empire.  But, you're rather jerk off to your fantasies about what is happening rather than look at what is right in front of you. Read Putin's own fucking words.

Thank you software for the block feature. Like most conspiracy theorists I'm sure you believe you have 'hidden insight' into the unrevealed secrets of the world. It's an essential feature of the conspiracist to self-congratulatorily believe they see what nobody else understands.  To the rest of us, you're a crazy person barking at the moon. 

You've taken a couple of right statements and spun them into a web of utter bullshit. Good bye.

[tassojunior]

1 hour ago, caeron said:

Wow. You think that Russians think that Putin is weak? You think we installed him? You think those kids you claim to know volunteered because they think their leader is weak? Do you even listen to yourself?

I hope your tin foil hat protects you from the mind control rays. You're too busy diddling your own conspiracy theories to see what's right in front of you. Putin is telling you, repeatedly, with his public words who he is. He is telling you he is a strong man who wants to reclaim the lost Soviet Empire.  But, you're rather jerk off to your fantasies about what is happening rather than look at what is right in front of you. Read Putin's own fucking words.

Thank you software for the block feature. Like most conspiracy theorists I'm sure you believe you have 'hidden insight' into the unrevealed secrets of the world. It's an essential feature of the conspiracist to self-congratulatorily believe they see what nobody else understands.  To the rest of us, you're a crazy person barking at the moon. 

You've taken a couple of right statements and spun them into a web of utter bullshit. Good bye.

Putin and Yeltsin were supported financially heavily by the US in the elections to defeat the communists. Polls in Russia show strong support for Russian action in Donbas. Both are easy enough to google if you aren't a brainwashed war robot. You're personally a very obnoxious person in the way you attack personally online instead of discussing issues. Facts don't support your poisonous hate so you spew venom. Typical.   

[forky123]

1 hour ago, tassojunior said:

Putin and Yeltsin were supported financially heavily by the US in the elections to defeat the communists. Polls in Russia show strong support for Russian action in Donbas. Both are easy enough to google if you aren't a brainwashed war robot. You're personally a very obnoxious person in the way you attack personally online instead of discussing issues. Facts don't support your poisonous hate so you spew venom. Typical.   

Hypocrite. Just some of your personal attacks follow:

On 3/13/2023 at 1:02 AM, tassojunior said:

the love of killing and war in people like you is just a poison that makes you a miserable person to others and yourself. there's few more horrible diseases you could be infected with than pride in killing others. 

 

On 3/13/2023 at 2:00 PM, tassojunior said:

Blatant lies loyally repeated by yet another Nazi clone. Do you a masturbate to babies having their heads cut off by US soldiers in Iraq? Do you wear necklaces of Vietnamese ears to bed? If your government told you to stick 6 million Jews in ovens you'd show up with red, white and blue pom-poms and zippo lighters to light the ovens. Because it's for their own good ! Because everyone knows it's good ! Uncritical support of America's continual war for world domination through continual genocide and destruction of other nations is on you. You have murdered more people than anyone could have imagined in the modern age.  I am a proud American and I want nothing to do with you robotic murderers who drag our country down to fascist levels. 

 

On 3/13/2023 at 2:30 PM, tassojunior said:

here's a great photo for you fascist murderers to masturbate to.

One of the 1 million Iraqis you recently murdered going door-to-door pulling boys as young as 4 out of their homes and putting bullets in their heads and so they'd never grow up to be big "sand ni**ers" as you call them.  Put your Vietnamese ear necklace on and jerk off looking at the butt crack of the dead body. USA! USA!

The world's biggest purveyor of war and death is now the US I'm ashamed to say. And you mindless pro-war followers of the fascist regime are the problem and the murderers. 

 

 

On 3/13/2023 at 5:13 PM, tassojunior said:

"independent thought" lol. you're mindlessly reciting the approved thought (and lies) of the world power regime like a parrot and calling it independent thought. all the political nuance of a north korean good citizen. all the smugness of a Hitler youth. but you've turned off any "thought" in favor of conformity.  

 

[tassojunior]

a stack of death soldiers for pro-war fascists to enjoy. IDK but you can pretend they're "the other side" if it makes you come faster.

 

[tassojunior]

and I know most of the fascists relish or have the some of the most prized jewelry of the war-mongers; Vietnamese ear necklaces. since you killed 7 million of them, there should be plenty of ears for all. 

[tassojunior]

and something for the joy fascists get from the grief instilled in any of those who dare stand in the way of the empire. Dead babies do it best , as you know, and as our beloved Secretary of State Madeline Albright said, sometimes a half million dead babies are just justified in furthering American interests.

[Marc in Calif]

14 hours ago, tassojunior said:

Putin and Yeltsin were supported financially heavily by the US in the elections to defeat the communists. 

Yeltsin? I haven't seen any evidence of heavy financial support paid directly by the US government for Yeltsin's re-election in 1996. Yes, there were both Republican and Democratic operatives who interfered, but they were paid by Yeltsin himself.

Putin? I haven't seen evidence that the Clinton administration provided heavy financial support for Putin's first actual election in March 2000. 

[unicorn]

15 hours ago, tassojunior said:

The nice thing about the CIA running the news...subscriptions are now $1....

And, of course, the US bankrolled the KGB/FSB czar to lead Russia. Nuttiest stuff I've ever read. 

[njf]

52 minutes ago, Marc in Calif said:

Yeltsin? I haven't seen any evidence of heavy financial support paid directly by the US government for Yeltsin's re-election in 1996. Yes, there were both Republican and Democratic operatives who interfered, but they were paid by Yeltsin himself.

Putin? I haven't seen evidence that the Clinton administration provided heavy financial support for Putin's first actual election in March 2000. 

It may not be open financial support.  But there was certainly election meddling:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2020/06/26/russian-election-interference-meddling/

BTW, you can get the $1 subscription for WP if you are not already a subscriber lol.

[Marc in Calif]

30 minutes ago, njf said:

It may not be open financial support.  But there was certainly election meddling...

Yes, I mentioned specifically the case of the three political operatives. They were paid by Yeltsin. Of course there were others, perhaps paid directly by the US government. 

I was responding to the comment that "Putin and Yeltsin were supported financially heavily by the US in the elections..." 

[tassojunior]

1 hour ago, Marc in Calif said:

Yes, I mentioned specifically the case of the three political operatives. They were paid by Yeltsin. Of course there were others, perhaps paid directly by the US government. 

I was responding to the comment that "Putin and Yeltsin were supported financially heavily by the US in the elections..." 

I don't think it was much of a secret that the Clinton administration pulled out all stops to get Yeltsin and his deputy Putin elected in the 1996 Russian elections over the communists. Even today there are still articles one is allowed to find on google that speak of how many "private" interests funneled money to them in the election and how Clinton promised $1.6 billion in aid to Russia to help them get elected over the communists. At that time they both were eager to join NATO and mesh in with western society as fast as possible and American corporations were buying up Russian companies at rock bottom prices with Yeltsin and Putin's blessing. 

Afterward is when the US pulled the rug out from under Russia and decided that not only must the Soviet Union be dissolved but that Russia itself must be destroyed, like Iraq, as a functioning powerful rival to US interests in the region (and the world). The destruction of Russia has evolved into official US policy today. Even Chekov and Tchaikovsky are banned in the hate Russia narrative. The war with Russia is fast passing any rivalry or containment phase into actual hot war. I personally see it as analogous to WW1 when the stalemate was untenable to the west and America went in to force an unjust peace that led a few years later into the deaths of tens of millions in WW2. And I personally also see it as ironic that the west's probable best hope in the future war with China is an alliance of the US and Russia including Europe against China. The "encirclement" of China with US allies is failing miserably. Forcing Russia into China's arms as an ally is going to become the latest really stupid strategy of American "strategists". And that's saying a lot as arrogant and stupid as they've become. 

But I get really mad at my country continually starting these major wars and killing millions of people in furtherance of these nebulous "American interests" Albright talked about justifying killing a half-million babies. 

Yes, Yeltsin and Putin were our boys.

 

[tassojunior]

1 hour ago, unicorn said:

And, of course, the US bankrolled the KGB/FSB czar to lead Russia. Nuttiest stuff I've ever read. 

If you don't know anything about the 1996 Russian election why do you assume it didn't happen? Is it because that's not in your mind-programming the regime finds convenient? If it's not in the current best narrative spin it didn't happen? An unquestioning cog is a happy cog ? 

 

[tassojunior]

1 hour ago, unicorn said:

And, of course, the US bankrolled the KGB/FSB czar to lead Russia. Nuttiest stuff I've ever read. 

It's nutty to you because you're so far out of touch with reality. As many are unfortunately because of censorship and propaganda narratives 24/7. Germans felt exactly  the same way in 1933 so you're not alone. In 2023 the narrative is all that matters and becomes the Truth. But your support of death and killing will come back on you as it did the Germans.