Airbnb (or other apartment) recommendations

[Riobard]

I assume my Depends incontinence panties qualify as underwear. 

Surprisingly, my usual procedure of tucking a few currency bills under my shoe insole for emergencies is apparently prohibited. One cannot step on baht bills as they contain characteristic Royal image. I guess I’ll put them in a velcro wraparound ankle pouch and assiduously respect them. 

[MarcSingap]

18 hours ago, gayinpattaya said:

When traveling best to stick to the local laws, and keep yourself out of trouble....

Short term Airbnb bookings are illegal.. Avoid them.
Gogo bars, illegal. 
Prostitution, illegal.  
Watching porn, illegal. 
Sex toys, illegal.
Buying booze after midnight at stores, illegal. 
Drinking after 2am, illegal. 
Electronic cigarettes, illegal. 
Going outside without wearing underwear (under your pants/shorts) illegal...

I bet a missed a few. 

But don't worry, you can sit on the balcony in your hotel, smoke drugs (cannabis), and masturbate with only your imagination. Best to stay out of trouble.... 


I love Thailand haha. 

Maybe you didn't understand that Short Term Airbnb are not only illegal, but people in condos just HATE short term Airbnb tourists coming in and out in their condo. Police will not come to randomly check you in the lobby of the condo. No no. But many people of the condo will not hesitate to call security if they believe you are a short term tenant. They are so pissed off by the tourists moving with their luggage in the condo everydays.

Like in many countries, the hunt for Airbnb short term rentals is also open here...  

[Riobard]

I take a different view as a condo unit owner, not particularly territorial, of 20 years in a major city tourism district. Home rentals on Airbnb and similar platforms were carried out for some 15 years in my building. More recently a co-owner majority vote prohibited it. I cast my vote against prohibition. Yet I have absolutely no personal vested interest as I have no desire or intention to rent my loft. 

However, I have had neighbour problems that far exceed Airbnb guest problems; they have been typically “legal” tenants of absentee owner landlords, usually one-year leases. You can have an ignorant neighbour creating a ruckus for months and years at a time, with impunity, other residents possessing very limited recourse, while in contrast short-term gig economy guests are reviewed on the platform, wish to maintain good reputations for future booking requests, and usually keep their heads down and noses clean. I have spent many hours overall attempting to resolve difficult neighbour issues from above, below, and laterally. Never a problem with a short-term renter.

Some owners complain about baggage traffic yet the lobby elevators have been ruined by legal tenants moving their bulk items in and out when occupying or vacating a condo because they refuse to reserve the service elevator designated for that purpose.

The source of potential assholes is six of one half a dozen of the other. I’d rather have 1 bad cupcake out of a baker’s dozen than a bad cake. 

[gayinpattaya]

4 hours ago, MarcSingap said:

Maybe you didn't understand that Short Term Airbnb are not only illegal, but people in condos just HATE short term Airbnb tourists coming in and out in their condo. Police will not come to randomly check you in the lobby of the condo. No no. But many people of the condo will not hesitate to call security if they believe you are a short term tenant. They are so pissed off by the tourists moving with their luggage in the condo everydays.

Like in many countries, the hunt for Airbnb short term rentals is also open here...  

I totally understand. It happens in my condo regularly. Residents and security stop people with suitcases. 

My post was satire. 

[Riobard]

3 hours ago, gayinpattaya said:

I totally understand. It happens in my condo regularly. Residents and security stop people with suitcases. 

It stands to reason that as a guest, even having booked minimally 30 days and able to produce evidence of that duration if pressed, say by building Board or security, one would want to be accompanied in person by the platform host for formal check-in. And have a signed cryptic letter to be able to produce to rotating security staff if needed, ie, “Riobard will be staying with us as our guest indefinitely …” 

Hosts themselves may have family/friends guests that visit with luggage, just like any other unit-occupying owner or legit renter. They may have non-paying guests enjoy the unit when not booked, or block off time for company. Hence, it takes a lot to challenge any creative backstory put forward by a host and guest if an arrangement is questioned by busybodies.

I can assure you that conventional building renters could give a shit, and that self-appointed vigilante owners’ bark is worse than their bite. If I were a rental platform host, with the prerogative of enjoying my unit in privacy and having company visit, I would ostentatiously have every person I know take turns hauling in and out vast amounts of luggage in full view of any onlookers that happen to be present. Any other building occupant would be welcome to challenge the narrative but, after coming in hot with me, no single challenger would likely be bold enough to ever again risk the reality of what actually transpired, accusatory harassment. They likely  wouldn’t ever want second servings of that piece of my mind. I would also try to move that discussion out into public space as there are laws against verbal harassment, and I would be recording the transaction. 

If a guest unaccompanied by the host for the stay duration, but approached by a nosy occupant, I would just do what everybody else does ordinarily anyway: be on my phone busily loudly and animatedly talking, perhaps in a language the busybody wouldn’t comprehend, while dismissively yet non-menacingly waving them out of my personal space. But in a gentlemanly fashion ushering them through a door or elevator exit while essentially overtly ignoring them. Nuisance made invisible, next. While on the phone I might be heard saying something like: “My sabbatical is 8 months but I took a one-year lease conveniently near a BTS station, so I hope you plan to visit.” There is no law against babbling a falsehood that another person inadvertently eavesdrops on. 

Nobody can actually easily ascertain what business someone in possession of a building access card/fob and access to a unit is up to. The transactions are private. The only giveaway would typically be a platform guest unwilling or not smart enough to collude with an arrangement that had actually been made to their advantage.

[MarcSingap]

12 hours ago, gayinpattaya said:

I totally understand. It happens in my condo regularly. Residents and security stop people with suitcases. 

My post was satire. 

oh ok... i just wanted to inform the guys who don't know thai laws to avoid very unpleasant situations... BTW other part of your comments are quite true 🙂

[gayinpattaya]

18 hours ago, Riobard said:

It stands to reason that as a guest, even having booked minimally 30 days and able to produce evidence of that duration if pressed, say by building Board or security, one would want to be accompanied in person by the platform host for formal check-in. And have a signed cryptic letter to be able to produce to rotating security staff if needed, ie, “Riobard will be staying with us as our guest indefinitely …” 

Hosts themselves may have family/friends guests that visit with luggage, just like any other unit-occupying owner or legit renter. They may have non-paying guests enjoy the unit when not booked, or block off time for company. Hence, it takes a lot to challenge any creative backstory put forward by a host and guest if an arrangement is questioned by busybodies.

I can assure you that conventional building renters could give a shit, and that self-appointed vigilante owners’ bark is worse than their bite. If I were a rental platform host, with the prerogative of enjoying my unit in privacy and having company visit, I would ostentatiously have every person I know take turns hauling in and out vast amounts of luggage in full view of any onlookers that happen to be present. Any other building occupant would be welcome to challenge the narrative but, after coming in hot with me, no single challenger would likely be bold enough to ever again risk the reality of what actually transpired, accusatory harassment. They likely  wouldn’t ever want second servings of that piece of my mind. I would also try to move that discussion out into public space as there are laws against verbal harassment, and I would be recording the transaction. 

If a guest unaccompanied by the host for the stay duration, but approached by a nosy occupant, I would just do what everybody else does ordinarily anyway: be on my phone busily loudly and animatedly talking, perhaps in a language the busybody wouldn’t comprehend, while dismissively yet non-menacingly waving them out of my personal space. But in a gentlemanly fashion ushering them through a door or elevator exit while essentially overtly ignoring them. Nuisance made invisible, next. While on the phone I might be heard saying something like: “My sabbatical is 8 months but I took a one-year lease conveniently near a BTS station, so I hope you plan to visit.” There is no law against babbling a falsehood that another person inadvertently eavesdrops on. 

Nobody can actually easily ascertain what business someone in possession of a building access card/fob and access to a unit is up to. The transactions are private. The only giveaway would typically be a platform guest unwilling or not smart enough to collude with an arrangement that had actually been made to their advantage.

I can only tell you how it works in my building. 
People with suitcases are questioned if not known by security staff. 
My building has a minimum 6 month lease requirement for entry. We have a biometric system (thumbprints) to enter and navigate around the condo and facilities. Other, older condominiums in Jomtien, and greater Pattaya don't have the same level of security. 

I sleep better at night in a safer building. 

[Riobard]

57 minutes ago, gayinpattaya said:

I can only tell you how it works in my building. 
People with suitcases are questioned if not known by security staff. 
My building has a minimum 6 month lease requirement for entry. We have a biometric system (thumbprints) to enter and navigate around the condo and facilities. Other, older condominiums in Jomtien, and greater Pattaya don't have the same level of security. 

I sleep better at night in a safer building. 

My building also passed a bylaw defining minimum rental period. Like yours, these are the exception to the usual degree of lengths co-owner condo syndicates are prepared to go, particularly since they prefer to rely on the Thai Condo and Hotel Acts, albeit ambiguous.

Interestingly, my building co-ownership did not need to do it because our building falls into a prohibited zone owing to high density of hotels. In contrast, platforms like Airbnb home rental are legal in more hotel-sparse zones, and must post Tourist Home license signage. 

It would have been easier to invoke the city by-law and transfer surveillance to the municipality. But no, owners want to play detective in spite of being useless at it, and even still don’t report suspected infractions to the city, not that the city would possess many more skills for enforcement.

Short-term renters have not been fined to date because there is still an evidentiary process that our 3rd party management is not interested in dealing with because they are paid peanuts and have their hands full dealing with miscreant full-time occupants; savvy short-term renters are usually able to operate under the radar. They tend to be, comparatively, non-guillotined chickens.

I was once on the Board and threw up my hands at the chaotic presentation of evidence surrounding a raucous building terrace party that should have been open-and-shut. Should have submitted a script to Judge Judy show-runners. 

Suitcase no suitcase, our security personnel only have the latitude to request an unfamiliar person accessing the building sign in on a sheet. They do not possess the prerogative to inquire as to the status of the visitor. The by-law prohibits short-term rental but does not delineate the extent to which privacy is restricted, ie, no operational plan. I myself travel a great deal and often come in with loads of baggage and a new unfamiliar security guard doesn’t even look up. 

Toothless paper tiger. 

[gayinpattaya]

12 minutes ago, Riobard said:

My building also passed a bylaw defining minimum rental period. Like yours, these are the exception to the usual degree of lengths co-owner condo syndicates are prepared to go, particularly since they rely on the Thai Condo and Hotel Acts, albeit ambiguous.

Interestingly, my building co-ownership did not need to do it because our building falls into a prohibited zone owing to high density of hotels. In contrast, platforms like Airbnb home rental are legal in hotel-sparse zones.

It would have been easier to invoke the city by-law and transfer surveillance to the municipality. But no, owners want to play detective in spite of being useless at it, and even still don’t report suspected infractions to the city, not that the city would have the skills for enforcement. Short-term renters have not been fined to date because there is still an evidentiary process that our 3rd party management is not interested in dealing with because they are paid peanuts, and savvy short-term renters are usually able to operate under the radar. 

As you said, the area and/or zone one lives can make a huge difference. If you are living in a beachfront condo, you signed up for drunks tourists being loud in short-term rentals. I have nothing against AirBnB, I love them. I just don't want to live in a building with tourists. I live 1.5km from the beach, and it solves the problem.

[Riobard]

7 minutes ago, gayinpattaya said:

As you said, the area and/or zone one lives can make a huge difference. If you are living in a beachfront condo, you signed up for drunks tourists being loud in short-term rentals. I have nothing against AirBnB, I love them. I just don't want to live in a building with tourists. I live 1.5km from the beach, and it solves the problem.

That shows foresight and skilled vetting on your part. 

[fedssocr]

It's my understanding that here in Thailand anyway it would be the Airbnb host who would be in trouble rather than the guest. Although I am sure it would be disruptive to one's vacation. 

The building where I live in the US has bylaws banning short term rentals. I think our county government outlaws them as well. So it hasn't been a problem. We also have a pretty hands-on management company running things. And the front desk staff run a fairly tight ship. For sure how your building is run makes a difference.

I think my time using Airbnb may be coming to an end because there are just so many issues like this. And all of the talk about short term rentals screwing up the local housing markets. Having to sneak around using back entrances and always keeping your head down to avoid drawing attention can be a bit annoying.

I stayed at an Airbnb in Melbourne several years ago that was a bit of a mess. Nice location across from the train station but for a brand new building it was in fairly poor condition in the common areas although the apartment itself was very nice and in good condition. Lots of foreign students seemed to be living there in addition to the Airbnbs. Big luggage rolling in and out every day. Long waits for elevators. My impression was that there were few owner-occupied units which is what really allows a building to go downhill.

[sharon1]

cheap and low price + Better option airbnb.

[Riobard]

18 hours ago, sharon1 said:

cheap and low price + Better option airbnb.

I spent many hours over the past few weeks searching and deciding for a 3-week trip, flight booked some time ago and dates locked in. Pay 20-21 nights for a licensed hotel apartment with separate enclosed bedroom versus pay 30-31 nights for an unlicensed unit of minimally equivalent or better size, quality, and features with stellar reviews, used only for the actual trip 20-21 nights but enabling above-board booking and payment record status in the event of being challenged. It might not always be the case and it hinges on a number of variables, but for the area I wanted the latter is the hands-down undisputed winner, both financially and otherwise. 

In this case the one-month discount was triggered so that the additional cost relative to 20-21 days equated to 8 rather than 10 days, and about 6% over and above the combined cost of airfare and 20-21 days of the private apartment that had originally triggered a one-week discount. 

Lack of hotel amenities is not a problem for me; I rarely stay in hotels and I found in the past that I spend more time tidying up so that hotel cleaners can do their thing around my stuff than it takes to just manage it all myself. Additionally, in different time zones when you may want or need to nap they tend to knock or phone, disturbing one’s needed restorative rest to inquire whether the ‘do not disturb’ sign means literally the words on the sign. 

No single long-term owner or tenant, or vacationer in any building is a better occupant than me. Whether in my own home or booking a vacation home on a platform I would be mortified if my presence caused a noise or odour disturbance for other residents. I also figured out long ago how to close a door, drawer or cupboard without slamming it, avoid splattering the microwave oven, and refrain from forcing solids down the kitchen sink drain or trying to flush inappropriate items down the toilet. I don’t walk with a noisy thumping heel-strike gait. Nobody will hear me come in late from a visit to Tawan.

[vinapu]

2 hours ago, Riobard said:

Nobody will hear me come in late from a visit to Tawan.

you don't know what you are missing

[Riobard]

34 minutes ago, vinapu said:

you don't know what you are missing

I should, then, disturb the other building residents if and when I come in late after galavanting and whoring, and take pleasure in waking up all of Bang Rak with banging racket? 

Tell me where and when the hot gym dudes are plying their trade and I’ll adjust my sched accordingly. I thought it might be around the midnight-ish witching hour. 😏

[gayinpattaya]

2 hours ago, Riobard said:

I should, then, disturb the other building residents if and when I come in late after galavanting and whoring, and take pleasure in waking up all of Bang Rak with banging racket? 

Tell me where and when the hot gym dudes are plying their trade and I’ll adjust my sched accordingly. I thought it might be around the midnight-ish witching hour. 😏

Dancers from The Venue live in my building. A bunch of lady boys also. You have to take the good with the less good. 
Now invaded by Russians, its the good with the bad. 

[vinapu]

4 hours ago, Riobard said:

I should, then, disturb the other building residents if and when I come in late after galavanting and whoring, and take pleasure in waking up all of Bang Rak with banging racket? 

 

from time to time yes, neighbours should know that cool guy who knows how to party  lives among them, they will look at you with respect, speaking from experience. 

[fedssocr]

8 hours ago, Riobard said:

I spent many hours over the past few weeks searching and deciding for a 3-week trip, flight booked some time ago and dates locked in. Pay 20-21 nights for a licensed hotel apartment with separate enclosed bedroom versus pay 30-31 nights for an unlicensed unit of minimally equivalent or better size, quality, and features with stellar reviews, used only for the actual trip 20-21 nights but enabling above-board booking and payment record status in the event of being challenged. It might not always be the case and it hinges on a number of variables, but for the area I wanted the latter is the hands-down undisputed winner, both financially and otherwise. 

I am basically exactly the same kind of guest as you are. However, don't kid yourself about a month-long booking making an otherwise not above-board booking magically above-board. The host needs to have the right licensing to make any sort of monthly booking technically legal. Chances are 99% or better that no host in a condo building would have such a license since I'm pretty sure they are not issued for such properties. Likewise if the building bans short term rentals or sublets then staying a month doesn't put the place in compliance. I believe most buildings you'd want to stay in require at least a 6 month or 1 year lease. Lots of rentals of that sort exist in the neighborhood, typically arranged by property management companies.

I haven't had any issues at this point where I am staying. But I am using the garage entrance to get into the building which always feels like I am sneaking around. And I feel some shame using my keycard in the elevator if there are any real residents present scanning their fingerprints. I've noticed a couple of other obvious interlopers though as well.

I prefer apartments too. But next time I will just shell out for a serviced apartment hotel option

[Boy69]

Never used Airbnb , As I understand it's not include cleaning and changing bed sheets ? Am I missing something ?

[reader]

3 hours ago, Boy69 said:

Never used Airbnb , As I understand it's not include cleaning and changing bed sheets ? Am I missing something ?

No, you have a sound understanding of how they work. Being a regular user, they're not suited for guests who want regular maid service. They're primarily suited for extended stay guests (month or more) who wish to live as they would at home. The advantages are not being disturbed by housekeeping and a lower per diem cost than hotels with similar amenities (i.e., pool, fitness center). I only use Airbnb's that have washing machines which allow me to travel lighter and, of course, launder the sheets as required. If you're staying longer than a month, the owner should throw in a complete cleaning at some point during your rental.

I think for most visitors, hotels or serviced apartments are a far better choice.

[Riobard]

15 hours ago, fedssocr said:

I am basically exactly the same kind of guest as you are. However, don't kid yourself about a month-long booking making an otherwise not above-board booking magically above-board. The host needs to have the right licensing to make any sort of monthly booking technically legal. Chances are 99% or better that no host in a condo building would have such a license since I'm pretty sure they are not issued for such properties. Likewise if the building bans short term rentals or sublets then staying a month doesn't put the place in compliance. I believe most buildings you'd want to stay in require at least a 6 month or 1 year lease. Lots of rentals of that sort exist in the neighborhood, typically arranged by property management companies.

I haven't had any issues at this point where I am staying. But I am using the garage entrance to get into the building which always feels like I am sneaking around. And I feel some shame using my keycard in the elevator if there are any real residents present scanning their fingerprints. I've noticed a couple of other obvious interlopers though as well.

I prefer apartments too. But next time I will just shell out for a serviced apartment hotel option

Right, I am not being naïve. I know what I am walking into. The 1-month stay isn’t entirely meaningless because it defines the threshold at which the unit is not considered temporary accommodation under the Hotel Act. It is not subject to hotel-specific regulations. Obviously, the majority of other guest stays are shorter, so a one-month stay by one guest doesn’t reverse the implication that the unit generally runs afoul of the Hotel Act. One can simply say, if pressed by an authority, that one is aware of the Hotel Act and that one’s stay does not violate it. 

As an aside, there is an ongoing grace period with a tentative defined fixed date that falls later than my visit, for all operations in Thailand that would meet the definitional criteria of a hotel under the Hotel Act to get up to speed, commonly termed “up to code”, but again that does not apply to exemptions based on the one-month threshold or to the architectural structure criteria that differentiate a hotel from the type of gig-economy lodgings that we are discussing. However, the regulatory infrastructure and enforcement appears to be in a shambles for both the hotel category and accommodations not subject to the Hotel Act. 

Like your example, the unit in question may represent an infraction of specific condo rules regarding let periods. However, as already discussed, a specific condo owner collective that objects to lets such as these seems to outline prohibitive specificity predicated on interpretation of the Hotel Act’s criteria for temporary accommodation. Of course, one must be aware of other impediments to a smooth stay, including a specific building’s bylaws for minimal let periods, and how to collude with a host’s playbook set up due to factors that may render it impossible to operate completely out of plain sight. Additionally, vet for clues from reviews about the hosts’ capacity for physical presence in the vicinity, in contrast to remote hosts in jurisdictions where home rental platforms are widely accepted and utilized. And openly discuss any concerns ahead of time regarding the possible risks, costs and benefits. Choose a wide berth cancellation option and periodically scan reviews leading up to arrival.

[Tartegogo]

7 hours ago, reader said:

The advantages are not being disturbed by housekeeping

That advantage can be attractive.

I have once heard a knock on the door ("HOUSEKEEPING") around 11 am when I was fully inside a grinder boy who had just turned up 30 minutes before that. It is so easy to forget to put the "do not disturb" sign up when your boy is so handsome that the only thing you can think of is to kiss him and start undressing him.😍

I had to pull out and walk to the door to tell them to come back later, because I was worried that they would enter if I didn't reply.🤫

[scott456]

9 hours ago, reader said:

The advantages are not being disturbed by housekeeping

You can always put the "do not disturb" sign at the room door if you stay at the regular full service hotel.

[vinapu]

3 hours ago, scott456 said:

You can always put the "do not disturb" sign at the room door

5 hours ago, Tartegogo said:

 It is so easy to forget to put the "do not disturb" sign up when your boy is so handsome that the only thing you can think of is to kiss him and start undressing him.😍

 

 

[hojacat]

7 hours ago, Tartegogo said:

That advantage can be attractive.

I have once heard a knock on the door ("HOUSEKEEPING") around 11 am when I was fully inside a grinder boy who had just turned up 30 minutes before that. It is so easy to forget to put the "do not disturb" sign up when your boy is so handsome that the only thing you can think of is to kiss him and start undressing him.😍

I had to pull out and walk to the door to tell them to come back later, because I was worried that they would enter if I didn't reply.🤫

Hopefully not too suddenly as to hurt the boy. These kind of interruptions are such a bone killer for me.