Maybe it's the boys' choice

[reader]

During a discussion today with another member, it occurred to me that all the confusion about what the boys in the show bars wear or don't wear may have as much to do with their own preference as it does with what owners and the local constabulary say on the matter.

For a various reasons, this is a moment in time when those who represent the essential component of a go-go bar--those who perform on stage--find themselves in a position to influence (for lack of better terminology) terms and conditions of employment.

It's been mentioned here and in other boards that managers of Bangkok clubs have experienced difficulty from time to time in holding onto staff. When Dreamboy moved into new premises this fall, it created a temporary vacuum as it rushed to scale up from 15-20 boys to 40 plus. And recent reports out of Pattaya have some managers having similar problems.

What's behind the shortage? The results of the long-term closure imposed by Covid is the principle cause. Not only did Thais return to the provinces of the northeast, many of those from other ASEAN countries likewise went home. Fast forward two years and a significant portion of them found other employment or for whatever reason opted not to come back. Those that have returned are older and perhaps less prone to being easily controlled. Newcomers entering the game are influenced by the older guys.

Lets face it. Some performers--particularly the straight guys who dominate the trade--aren't excited about bopping around in briefs (with or without a bunny tail on the back). Sure, they'll do the critical stuff (the big cock show is a macho routine anyway) and flex their muscles, but they want it to emphasize their masculinity. Tawan is perhaps the exception because even in briefs, no one who wanders into the bar is going to mistake those guys for fem boys--not that there's anything wrong with that.

So maybe, just maybe the balance of power is shifting a bit. If baristas at Starbucks can unionize, why not the guys who constitute the reason we all come to Thailand in the first place.

[Gaybutton]

2 hours ago, reader said:

Lets face it. Some performers--particularly the straight guys who dominate the trade--aren't excited about bopping around in briefs

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to face it - because I don't buy it.  First, I don't agree that it is necessarily straight guys who dominate the trade.  I'd say that depends on which bars you go to.  I've seen straight guys dominate in some bars, twinks in some bars, and a mixture in some bars.  The same is true on the apps.

Also whether it's the boys' choice or not, if that's what the bar, the boys, or both are choosing, then I think that's the wrong choice if they want to attract customers and increase their chances of being taken off.  Getting offs or, better still, hooking up with a sugar daddy is the main goal of working in a go-go bar, isn't it?  Nobody is forcing these boys to work in go-go bars.  If they are shy about appearing in thongs or whatever, then I'd day they're working in the wrong place.  If they are shy, then what are they doing and expecting by working in a go-go bar?

I can't speak for others, but as for me if they want my business, they're going to have to wear what will attract me.  T-shirts or shirtless, if they're wearing jeans instead of briefs, all that's going to do is get me to move on to another bar, especially at the prices go-go bars are charging these days.  If the boys are not in briefs in any of the go-go bars, then I'll go to a host bar where the drinks and off fees are a fraction of what the go-go bars are charging.

I'm sorry if some of the boys don't like it, but if they want my business they're going to have to earn it. 

[PeterRS]

I suspect both @reader  and @Gaybutton are pretty close to the mark. As was written elsewhere very recently, 40 or so years ago, the boys who worked in the bars were all young Thais from poor upcountry families. The gay bar owners were copying the girlie bar model where nudity at some point in the evening was an important part of the job. It was very obvious that some of the boys at that time felt shy shedding their pants. A few seemed to revel in it. But like it or not, if they were not prepared to get nude, there was no job.

More generally Thais have a reluctance to show all their assets. That was equally true in the early saunas. As I know from attending hot springs, Japanese, Koreans, Taiwanese and occasionally some Chinese nationals are mostly perfectly happy being nude in front of others - perhaps in part a hang over from communial bathing which was historically so common in those ountries. But appearing in skimpy briefs is very different in my view. If the boys in the bars find some objection to this, then the bar owners should get rid of them. Dancers in jeans would have zero attraction for me. Only if it is a legal requirement should the bar owners tolerate it IMHO.

[reader]

2 hours ago, Gaybutton said:

I don't agree that it is necessarily straight guys who dominate the trade.  I'd say that depends on which bars you go to. 

I agree that it may vary from bar to bar in Pattaya. In Bangkok, it's another story.

2 hours ago, Gaybutton said:

I'm sorry if some of the boys don't like it, but if they want my business they're going to have to earn it. 

1 hour ago, PeterRS said:

Dancers in jeans would have zero attraction for me. Only if it is a legal requirement should the bar owners tolerate it IMHO.

We're all free to go--or not go--to whatever bars we choose. But the bar business seems primarily supported by locals and tourists. Going by what I read in all three boards, expats in Pattaya are playing an increasingly smaller role in determining what bars succeed and what ones fail. Is it a result of fewer gay men choosing to retire there or advancing average age of the punters? How often are you attending the bars? How often are you offing someone from a bar? If not, is it the lacks of boys in skimpy briefs that influences you decision or something else?

I read a lot of folks bemoaning that the scene that existed two or more decades ago is not what what they find today. And as true as that fact may be, not supporting the ones that remain only helps ensure that they, too, will fall by the wayside.

One thing seems certain. There's been a definite shift away from the the old scene where bars of all types proliferated in Bangkok and Pattaya. And I suppose you can just as easily include Chiang Mai and Phuket. But lack of boys in skimpy attire is hardly responsible. I hope others will suggest what's actually responsible. Is it the apps alone or are other factors at play.

I loved the Twlight scene but it was sadly on the wane well before Covid. I'm sure that was the case in the other cities, also.

 

[PeterRS]

13 minutes ago, reader said:

Going by what I read in all three boards, expats in Pattaya are playing an increasingly smaller role in determining what bars succeed and what ones fail. Is it a result of fewer gay men choosing to retire there or advancing average age of the punters? How often are you attending the bars? How often are you offing someone from a bar? If not, is it the lacks of boys in skimpy briefs that influences you decision or something else?

Can I respond although I am rarely in Pattaya? I do think there are some similarities between Bangkok and Pattaya. First, for decades I used to visit the Bangkok bars very regularly - yes, i go as far back as 1979. I loved the bars in the 1980s and 1990s. I loved being a butterfly. But age and relationships caught up with me. Being in a committed partnership I have had no desire for years to go to the bars. Some others are likely to be in the same situation. 

Second, the increasing wealth in the countryside. There is no longer a supply of Thai boys prepared to strut their stuff in the bars. Hence the need for bar owners to find boys from neighbouring countries most of them working illegally.

Third, Thaksin's Social Order Campaigns in the early 2000s. Interior Minister Purachai was determined with unusual zeal for any government minister to rein in the sex trade. A deeply religious man who lived modestly, Purachai seemed hell bent on a one-man crusade with a mission to restore Thai values. His measures were incredibly popular in the countryside and had a greater effect on the bars and bar offerings than perhaps many gay residents and visitors realise.

Fourth, AIDS. It may seem odd to suggest that what is now more a chronic illness than a death sentence had an effect on the decline of the bars. Thailand was extremely effective on getting the message about HIV/AIDS out to the country in the late 1980s/1990s when the bars were still doin great business. But parents would certainly have got that message through to their sons, many of whom would be mid-late teens by the early 2010s. My view is that this created a reluctance to work in the bars which were by then attracting vastly more foreigners than Thais. Who knew if any of those foreigners harboured the HIV virus? Probably few, but I suspect enough to affect supply. Of course Thai customers were as likely to be affected as foreigners, but better the devil you know . . . 

Fifth. Very obviously the apps are a problem for bar owners, particularly if their primary response is to continue increasing drinks prices to ridiculous levels. Those on vacation can save well over 1,000 baht a day by not going to the bars.

Sixth. Shows and noise level. I have no desire to see ladyboys miming to pop and Thai songs at noise levels which hurt my hearing. The shows of yesteryear were fun with a variety of interesting acts. Big cock shows are about the only left over. Fascinating for some. Boring for others.

Seventh. With one or two exceptions, the bars have failed to accept that their market is changing. They can not exist by coninuing to try appealing to ageing farang. The new Immigration financial requirements brought in 3 years ago rule out retirement in Thailand for more than a few. Brits, for example, who used to make up quite a number of the Pattaya expat community. I have no idea of the numbers now but most older Brits can not meet a regular monthly 65,000 baht income; even less have the ability to lock up 800,000 baht for 5 months of each year and 400,000 for the rest.

Lastly, the copycat mentality whereby one bar is more or less the same as the next virtually ensures a continual downhill slide.  To quote the late great Ethel Merman, "you gotta have a gimmick." Bar owners need something that marks them out as different and appealing, just as Barbiery was different from Twilight in the early 1990s. It seems Nice Boys has it, although virtually all the boys seem to be straight. Winner seemed to have it with its concentration on twinks. As for others, all I know is what I read here.

Over to other posters.

[vinapu]

6 hours ago, reader said:

--those who perform on stage--find themselves in a position to influence (for lack of better terminology) terms and conditions of employment.

.........

Fast forward two years and a significant portion of them found other employment or for whatever reason opted not to come back.

it may be a case.

Both mamasan and at least few guys from BBB Pattaya when I asked why only few boys are bare-chested on the stage told me that it is up to a boy  to take shirt off or not.

Another change, and that's for better,  I noticed last trip was at Jupiter, during their parade boys, in the past always sober or even stern looking started smiling at the customers

....

one of whatever reasons may be that they lost a shape and don't look attractive anymore. Definitely  a case of one most popular guys from one of most popular bars and I doubt it's solitary case.

2 hours ago, PeterRS said:

But appearing in skimpy briefs is very different in my view. If the boys in the bars find some objection to this, then the bar owners should get rid of them. Dancers in jeans would have zero attraction for me. Only if it is a legal requirement should the bar owners tolerate it IMHO.

I'd leave running bar to bar owners. I absolutely agree with all you said above but are we minority or majority of customers ?  What was filling tills in times when farangs were almost exclusive clientele may not be doing the trick when Asian are prevailing like right now. It's not difficult to notice even in our forum. Guys complaining about boys in jeans or fully dressed are almost exclusively farangs. Perhaps for many clients it not as big issue as it is for some of us.

I don't need to go far to see it since I have mirror. Yes I'd prefer guys being in skimpy briefs only but if they are not , I still like and enjoy my visits in bars. Is issue for me but not as big issue as for some of us. Do you think I'm alone?.

Until  we know what brings money and how much,  we can't say what works and what not. Even with issue of offs, now with all communicators, Line , What's Up etc.  we don't know if boys are getting more or less offs. I don't even mean cheating bar of off fee, now it's easy to arrange it with boy to come after show, after bar closes or before it opens and still pay dues to keep bars afloat.

This brings us to a Gaybutton statement

3 hours ago, Gaybutton said:

 

 I think that's the wrong choice if they want to attract customers and increase their chances of being taken off.  Getting offs or, better still, hooking up with a sugar daddy is the main goal of working in a go-go bar, isn't it? 

........

I can't speak for others, but as for me if they want my business, they're going to have to wear what will attract me.

Maybe, just maybe,  boys know better than us what attracts paying customers nowadays ? And what's even more important what generates better income for them. We use to look lustingly  at their  brief's contents  but with proliferation of nose , earlobes , chin, hairstyle improvements in recent time perhaps  that's the better way to get off and catch sugar daddy nowadays. I don't know but guessing based what I see and also what I hear from guys. Mooks , silicon and other cock improvements are passé , they seem to be more occupied with their faces or broadly speaking heads

.......

that's the  big if . I mean not you,  person of Gaybutton,  but type of customer liking what you like.

May be bars and boys don't see much potential in older farangs anymore with us nursing one drink whole evening , tipping guys 20 baht for a feel and complaining (rightly I haste to say) about cost of drinks. Perhaps new wave of customers opening whisky bottles, getting drunk, offing multiple buys for dances at DJ to get ever more drunk and then tipping them more like all drunk people tip is more desirable because pays their , figuratively speaking , mortgages ? I don't know , just guessing.

What I do know from personal experience in last post-covid trips is that it's more common then before that guys are rejecting my offers, are not interested in subsequent offs even if they were tipped above the market (?) or even not interested in  off at all. Did I start smelling badly or they just see better money or better fun somewhere else? 

[bkkmfj2648]

23 minutes ago, PeterRS said:

Seventh. With one or two exceptions, the bars have failed to accept that their market is changing. They can not exist by continuing to try appealing to ageing farang. The new Immigration financial requirements brought in 3 years ago rule out retirement in Thailand for more than a few. Brits, for example, who used to make up quite a number of the Pattaya expat community. I have no idea of the numbers now but most older Brits can not meet a regular monthly 65,000 baht income; even less have the ability to lock up 800,000 baht for 5 months of each year and 400,000 for the rest.

Lastly, the copycat mentality whereby one bar is more or less the same as the next virtually ensures a continual downhill slide.  To quote the late great Ethel Merman, "you gotta have a gimmick." Bar owners need something that marks them out as different and appealing, just as Barbiery was different from Twilight in the early 1990s. It seems Nice Boys has it, although virtually all the boys seem to be straight. Winner seemed to have it with its concentration on twinks. As for others, all I know is what I read here.

I @PeterRS - I think your 2 above points really hit the nail on the head.

You see this at play in the Jomtien Complex - each bar - one after the other - repeats the same format - as if they are cloned.  Then they all start with the same mantra, "falang sitdown - falang drink" - I like to stand for a while when I enter a new place because when I am encouraged to sit down I start to feel lethargic and my energy rapidly dissipates.  I even try to push back by saying why does falang need to sit?  The response is that this is the desired format in the Complex.  By who??

Also, in discussing this issue with one of the bar managers - as to why the format is expected to be the same amongst the bars - the response was to not upset the apple cart and to keep a single type of unified format - as he said that in the Thai culture it is not recommended to go against the grain.  But I replied, many of these bars are owned or financed by falangs - surely they can influence the format to be different - as they come from many different Western countries ???

The only bar that I see pushing the envelope towards something "extreme" (for Jomtien Complex - as this would not be considered extreme in other places like Sunee, Boyztown or Bangkok) is where in the Double Shot bar the masculine hosts take off their shirts and remain bare chested from 10pm forward.  You can even have these guys sit with you and they encourage your to touch/play with their nude torsos.  When the other bars push back saying that there must be conformity as that is the Thai way - I say, well - what about Double Shot?? - they are not following the Complex standard ???  Then there is silence and the conversation goes dead.

So, @PeterRS, this leads me to believe that the Ethel Merman / Barbiery approach could still work - you just need to have the courage to do it and to go against the established grain.....

 

[PeterRS]

1 hour ago, vinapu said:

Perhaps new wave of customers opening whisky bottles, getting drunk, offing multiple buys for dances at DJ to get ever more drunk and then tipping them more like all drunk people tip is more desirable because pays their , figuratively speaking , mortgages ? I don't know , just guessing.

It's a thought, but where would these bottle-buying customers come from? Up to about 10 years ago I recall occasionally seeing older Thais buying bottles and then sharing with the bar boys. Very rarely a farang would do the same. But the mamasans seemed not to like the practice because it kept half a dozen or so boys from dancing and not being avaiable for offs. Now with individual drinks up to 400 baht, I can't imagine what a bar would charge for an entire bottle! I suspect this sort of practice is never going to happen in gogo bars. It surely only happen in up-market bars in places like hotels and clubs where individuals buy by the bottle but are able to keep the bottle on the shelf for their next visits.

2 hours ago, vinapu said:

What I do know from personal experience in last post-covid trips is that it's more common then before that guys are rejecting my offers, are not interested in subsequent offs even if they were tipped above the market (?) or even not interested in  off at all. Did I start smelling badly or they just see better money or better fun somewhere else? 

That is certainly a change from the 'old days'. As far as I recall (and I believe my memory is good), if customers paid the off fee, boys had no choice. They had to go with them. There was rarely if ever a possibility for a boy to say 'No!'

[Gaybutton]

5 hours ago, reader said:

I suppose you can just as easily include Chiang Mai and Phuket. But lack of boys in skimpy attire is hardly responsible. I hope others will suggest what's actually responsible.

I think that is exactly what is responsible, but not by itself.  I would include the outrageously high prices, the apps, the world economy making it much more difficult for people to take expensive international holidays, and the fact that I see the bars doing absolutely nothing to attract customers.  After all, if I go to a go-go bar I at least want to enjoy it.  But boys in jeans and shorts?  What's to enjoy?  That certainly is not what I'm looking for.

What would you say, based on the way things are currently, does attract a good customer base?  Personally, I can't think of a damned thing.

I don't want to see the go-go bars all end up failing, but if that does happen I won't be in mourning and the bar owners will have no one to blame except the person they see in the mirror.

[jason1975]

When I was in Bangkok in June, the guys in Banana were in white briefs. The rest were in shorts or jeans. During my current trip, guys in Freshboys, Hotmale and Banana are all in white shorts. I believe it's instructions from the top. I will ask the guys in Banana tonight as I am going there and taking them back for drinking session.

[reader]

 I think well have to wait until Chinese tourists return in numbers rivaling pre-covid days. They were frequently the lifeblood of the gay show bars in Bangkok at least and I'd imagine big players in the Chiang Mai and Pattaya scenes.

While it's obvious that older farangs are no longer exerting the influence they once did for a variety of reasons well described above, they're still much sought after in the message shops. And the reasons are far less complex to comprehend: they tip consistently well.

[ChristianPFC]

I once spotted new recruits being led into the bar, eyes as big as saucers when they saw the other boys in underwear on stage.

When I go to gay saunas in Thailand and Cambodia, all other customers change their clothes under a towel.

But if you want my business in a gogo bar, underwear is the way to go. I do not tire of walking out of a gogo bar that has boys in short or even jeans and tell staff that I will come back when boys are in underwear (a necessary but not sufficient requirement to get my business).

[Keithambrose]

I was told by a friend who lives in Bangkok, that the area of Patpong 2 is under the jurisdiction of a new police chief, who has outlawed briefs, if so,  this may also account for the apparent ban on live fucking shows, reported on another forum.  There were fucking shows when I was in BKK in September.

[reader]

12 hours ago, Gaybutton said:

I think that is exactly what is responsible, but not by itself.  I would include the outrageously high prices, the apps, the world economy making it much more difficult for people to take expensive international holidays, and the fact that I see the bars doing absolutely nothing to attract customers.  After all, if I go to a go-go bar I at least want to enjoy it.  But boys in jeans and shorts?  What's to enjoy?  That certainly is not what I'm looking for.

What would you say, based on the way things are currently, does attract a good customer base?  Personally, I can't think of a damned thing.

I think it's the promise of sex.

I don't need to see naked or scantily clad guys on stage. That's what my room is for.

[zoomomancs]

8 hours ago, Keithambrose said:

I was told by a friend who lives in Bangkok, that the area of Patpong 2 is under the jurisdiction of a new police chief, who has outlawed briefs, if so,  this may also account for the apparent ban on live fucking shows, reported on another forum.  There were fucking shows when I was in BKK in September.

My sense is very definitely it is upstairs, whether managers or above them, as you suggest, that makes all the rules on Patpong Soi 2. That includes attire. There is not a unionised and powerful workforce. Even bars with close connections with the police have to abide by the rules of the month.  

[vinapu]

9 hours ago, Keithambrose said:

I was told by a friend who lives in Bangkok, that the area of Patpong 2 is under the jurisdiction of a new police chief, who has outlawed briefs, 

somehow this doesn't apply to girl's bars in Patpong, just by passing by one can see plenty of them scantily clothed

[vinapu]

10 hours ago, ChristianPFC said:

 

But if you want my business in a gogo bar, underwear is the way to go.

that was a point I tried to make above  - do they really care about your business ? I don't mean you ChristianPFC or Gaybutton  but everybody who makes bar visit conditional to boys being in underwear. May be they wrote this clientele off ? 

2 hours ago, reader said:

I think it's the promise of sex.

I don't need to see naked or scantily clad guys on stage. That's what my room is for.

I think you hit nail in the head.

17 hours ago, PeterRS said:

That is certainly a change from the 'old days'. As far as I recall (and I believe my memory is good), if customers paid the off fee, boys had no choice. They had to go with them. There was rarely if ever a possibility for a boy to say 'No!'

 I'm talking about preliminary inquiry before even off fee comes to the picture. Or situation when apps boy  uses some fabricated excuses to avoid repeated engagement, . or massage boy taking pains not to look at  me even if we were together week or two ago.

17 hours ago, PeterRS said:

It's a thought, but where would these bottle-buying customers come from? Up to about 10 years ago I recall occasionally seeing older Thais buying bottles and then sharing with the bar boys. Very rarely a farang would do the same. But the mamasans seemed not to like the practice because it kept half a dozen or so boys from dancing and not being avaiable for offs. Now with individual drinks up to 400 baht, I can't imagine what a bar would charge for an entire bottle! I suspect this sort of practice is never going to happen in gogo bars.

I don't want to sound sarcastic but certainly Peter you could use couple visits to bars now  and update yourself on going there. Even one of our members in his report few days ago reported about opening bottle  ( in Jupiter if I'm not mistaken ) . Depending of what's inside it will be 2000-3500 a bottle , mixers included.  I underscored in your comment possible reason they don't care about brief's loving customer with solitary 400 baht drink is will be another one who opens bottle, drinks with boys and tips them, sometimes skimpy , at other times generously. In last two trips , in May and Nov I witnessed at least on three occasions boys being tipped 1000 baht just for sitting with client and drinking with him or her and I really don't pay much attention about audience in any bar. The same note received guy on the stage whom I offed subsequently so it was just for looking pretty.

I , as much as others don't like those  changes but I stopped complaining and still happily visit bars because I can see those complains are falling on deaf ears.

10 hours ago, reader said:

 

While it's obvious that older farangs are no longer exerting the influence they once did for a variety of reasons well described above, they're still much sought after in the message shops. And the reasons are far less complex to comprehend: they tip consistently well.

another nail hit in the head, you on the roll today

[Keithambrose]

32 minutes ago, vinapu said:

somehow this doesn't apply to girl's bars in Patpong, just by passing by one can see plenty of them scantily clothed

Yes, indeed, that had struck me too!  I arrive next week, staying at Le Meridien, so hope to get personal experience! 

[vinapu]

15 minutes ago, Keithambrose said:

Yes, indeed, that had struck me too!  I arrive next week, staying at Le Meridien, so hope to get personal experience! 

with scantily clad girls ? Shame on you , you traitor, LOL

[Keithambrose]

13 hours ago, vinapu said:

with scantily clad girls ? Shame on you , you traitor, LOL

One can look, for reporting purposes, but not touch! 

[reader]

On 12/21/2022 at 11:18 PM, vinapu said:

I'd leave running bar to bar owners. I absolutely agree with all you said above but are we minority or majority of customers ?  What was filling tills in times when farangs were almost exclusive clientele may not be doing the trick when Asian are prevailing like right now. It's not difficult to notice even in our forum. Guys complaining about boys in jeans or fully dressed are almost exclusively farangs. Perhaps for many clients it not as big issue as it is for some of us.

Maybe, just maybe,  boys know better than us what attracts paying customers nowadays ? And what's even more important what generates better income for them.

When the China tourists return in force, and we witness their effect on the bars, we'll be able to draw some demonstrable conclusions. But as Vinapu observes above, the rest is just speculation as to what formula works for the greater number of customers. Meanwhile, we have no choice but to accept that the Bangkok and Pattaya of 20 years ago are not coming back. We are free, of course, to vote with our feet in the belief it will teach the owners a lesson, but I don't believe they're conditioned to heed our complaints. Nevertheless if that's the course we wish to go, we also deny ourselves what we came to Thailand for in the first place.

I'm simply grateful that the remaining bars are still open at all. Bitching about what once was doesn't seem like a productive use of my time.

[vinapu]

5 hours ago, reader said:

I'm simply grateful that the remaining bars are still open at all. 

Me too. I still have fun in them, yes , I liked previous formula with barely dressed guys better but if I don't have what i like , I like what I have , specially after paying substantial amount of money for airfare not to mention torture of long flights and jet lags.

Being fan of hunks I still have Tawan where dress and behavior code is still the same like it was before

I'm afraid some of us avoiding bars due to dress issue are depriving themselves a bit of fun but it's their choice, now with apps and communicators easy to stick to.

[PeterRS]

6 hours ago, reader said:

When the China tourists return in force, and we witness their effect on the bars . . . 

With covid now rampant and totally out of control in China, Chinese tourists will not be returning in force until late 2024 at the very earliest - maybe even 2025. Still, I'm sure numbers of gay tourists from Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore and Malaysia will soon be back to previous levels, and probably higher.

[Gaybutton]

37 minutes ago, PeterRS said:

With covid now rampant and totally out of control in China, Chinese tourists will not be returning in force until late 2024 at the very earliest - maybe even 2025.

I am truly sorry for the reasons why the Chines tourists can't come, but I have no objection to the fact that they can't come.  Many of us who live in Pattaya dread the day the hordes of Chinese tour buses return.  I, for one, am certain the city won't change a thing about how all that is handled, so sooner or later I am expecting the return of those buses causing major traffic, not to mention parking, problems.

As for the bars, they need to pay attention to their actual customer base.  I believe in Jomtien Complex and Sunee Plaza the vast majority of customers are American, British, and European.  I doubt many in that set are looking for outrageously high priced drinks, high off fees, aggressive mama-sans, and horrendously loud music volume.  If the bars want to succeed, they better consider what their customers are looking for - and it ain't boys wearing T-shirts and jeans . . .

[jason1975]

On 12/23/2022 at 6:51 AM, vinapu said:

Even one of our members in his report few days ago reported about opening bottle  ( in Jupiter if I'm not mistaken ) . Depending of what's inside it will be 2000-3500 a bottle , mixers included.  I underscored in your comment possible reason they don't care about brief's loving customer with solitary 400 baht drink is will be another one who opens bottle, drinks with boys and tips them, sometimes skimpy , at other times generously. In last two trips , in May and Nov I witnessed at least on three occasions boys being tipped 1000 baht just for sitting with client and drinking with him or her and I really don't pay much attention about audience in any bar. The same note received guy on the stage whom I offed subsequently so it was just for looking pretty.

I , as much as others don't like those  changes but I stopped complaining and still happily visit bars because I can see those complains are falling on deaf ears.

I suspect sometimes the customer knows that the guy will be a dud in bed and just wants to enjoy the good looks and company for the night. Ordering a bottle makes sense as you can drink with the guys unlimited. The cost of the bottle can even be spread over 3 visits (but have to pay cost of mixer 450 baht)