The worsening trend of Brits unable to pay their bills in Thailand

[reader]

From Pattaya Mail

By Barry Kenyon

As UK vacationers return to Thailand in big numbers, an old problem has resurfaced with new urgency. What happens when you owe a lot of money and have run out of cash in the Land of Smiles? The most recently publicized case is Wolverhampton social worker Jo Hoffman whose face is smashed after a horrible scooter accident. The estimated medical bill is 50,000 pounds with only a third so far raised via gofundme, the best-known crowd cash-raising platform.

Her case is far from unique as a cursory glance at Google will reveal. 2022 is the worst year in recent memory. There are currently at least seven British accident casualties awaiting collective cash to get back home together with a mortuary corpse. Not to mention two much-loved dogs who somehow missed their flights from Bangkok airport. And the tragedies are not only medical. Thai immigration police are refusing to let a healthy Liverpool tourist leave the country until he offers compensation to a comatose Thai driver injured in a skid accident which appears to have been nobody’s fault.

Understandably, victims and their relatives turn to the British embassy. Not much joy there. British government websites make it abundantly clear that there is no cash handout, or even a loan, no matter how desperate the situation. Diplomatic posts will offer a list of hospitals, translators and morticians and even phone relatives with the bad news, but there is a concrete zero budget for hard-luck stories no matter how grim. To be fair, other embassies sing from the same hymn sheet although a few – notably the Norwegian – offer far better counseling and care.

The parrot call, of course, is to be properly insured when abroad. Nobody knows how many travelling Brits are uninsured or inadequately covered. Global Protection says it’s around a third, some say a half. The vulnerable total certainly runs into hundreds of thousands every year. Some like Jo Hoffman thought they were covered by credit card travel insurance, only to discover the truth too late. Others fail to pay the premiums to cover emergency operations or fall foul of restrictions which preclude the elderly from claiming. Not to mention catchall phrases like “pre-existing conditions”, “evidence of alcohol or drugs”, “dangerous sports” or “high horsepower vehicles” which can doom even the most expensive policies.

Thailand does not insist on prior medical insurance except for one or two longstay visas. That’s true of most of her regional competitors for the tourist dollar. No mandatory insurance for the Philippines, Cambodia or Laos for example. All these countries, including Thailand, did require Covid-specific insurance during the pandemic but no longer. They are currently in competition to pack in as many visitors as possible in the name of marketing. Thailand does have a small discretionary fund for unfortunate foreign deaths on its soil, but it is limited to selected coach crashes and sunken vessels. Realistically, nothing will change. Of course, chances of any individual ending up on the gofundme register are remote. But stuff happens.

 

[xpaulo]

Is alcohol often involved in the road crashes. Maybe it's unfair, but the Brits have a rep for heavy drinking.

[floridarob]

5 hours ago, xpaulo said:

Is alcohol often involved in the road crashes. Maybe it's unfair, but the Brits have a rep for heavy drinking.

Maybe no more alcohol sales could solve that 😝

 

While Argentina and France will duke it out for the World Cup title tomorrow, the real winner of this tournament is the UK. For the first time ever, no fans from England or Wales were arrested at a World Cup, according to the head of the UK’s football police. “The behavior of England and Wales out in Qatar was absolutely exemplary,” Chief Constable Mark Roberts of the Cheshire Police said.

Still, it seems important to point out that this was the first World Cup where fans couldn’t drink alcohol in stadiums…

[tm_nyc]

10 hours ago, reader said:

No mandatory insurance for the Philippines, Cambodia or Laos for example.

I had to purchase insurance to get a 30-day e-visa for Cambodia back in October.  This might have been a hangover from the Covid insurance requirements but it definitely was required.

[xpaulo]

I don't drink so easy for me. Our local government however more or less made alcohol sales an essential service during the pandemic because it was worried no booze would be difficult for many people.

[PeterRS]

11 hours ago, reader said:

Nobody knows how many travelling Brits are uninsured or inadequately covered. Global Protection says it’s around a third, some say a half. The vulnerable total certainly runs into hundreds of thousands every year. Some like Jo Hoffman thought they were covered by credit card travel insurance, only to discover the truth too late. Others fail to pay the premiums to cover emergency operations or fall foul of restrictions which preclude the elderly from claiming. Not to mention catchall phrases like “pre-existing conditions”, “evidence of alcohol or drugs”, “dangerous sports” or “high horsepower vehicles” which can doom even the most expensive policies.

No doubt some will disagree with me, but I think Thailand should make travel insurance mandatory with quite high minimum limits on the policies. Indeed, i think every country should do the same. It is highly irresponsible for any individual to travel to any country without ensuring your health is protected and you personally are protected finacially from any hurt you may inflict on third parties. Travel policies are not an expensive addtion to over all travel costs. And for regular travellers, annual policies are proportionally even cheaper. For my recent 17 day trip to Taipei, full travel insurance arranged through my bank (which effectively subcontracts through Chubb), cost less than 1,000 baht. 

[vinapu]

47 minutes ago, xpaulo said:

I don't drink 

they should have some pills or ointment for that

[TMax]

Also to note that some travel insurance companies don't cover for motor bikes / scooters, they put that in the fine print that a lot of people don't bother to read. I have seen some stories like that on facebook where they thought they had insurance but didn't see the no cover for motor bikes / scooters bit. 

[xpaulo]

15 hours ago, floridarob said:

this was the first World Cup where fans couldn’t drink alcohol

I recall a government official in Canada saying many years ago that while Prohibition in the U.S. and Canada is remembered as a huge failure, in a lot of respects it was a success with big reductions in alcohol related social and health problems. I've seen first hand in my own family with my father, sister and now a niece how destructive it can be and am thankful the only time I ever wanted to drink was to fit in with friends.

[floridarob]

1 hour ago, xpaulo said:

in a lot of respects it was a success with big reductions in alcohol related social and health problems

During parts of the Covid lockdown where I live in Mexico, they instituted the ley seca, dry law. It was to prevent people from gathering and partying..... like drugs, some people still found a way to get it.....supposedly it did cut down on domestic abuse calls to the police though.

[xpaulo]

47 minutes ago, floridarob said:

supposedly it did cut down on domestic abuse calls

 A police officer in my town of about 30,000 people told me once if it wasn't for alcohol, it would only need two police officers. He was exaggerating of course, but almost all of their calls during a shift are alcohol related. I don't know they can deal with that day after day. But I also hate it that cops so often get away with shit that harms innocent people's lives, perhaps because they're usually A types and more prone to take advantage of vulnerable women, but sending dick picks to a woman who was just assaulted by her boyfriend the day before, and then saying he misunderstood her signals to him. Basically blaming her.

[PeterRS]

Re alcohol, surely one indicator has been the recent World Cup. Many English fans have over decades generally been rgarded as louts at soccer tournaments with many arrested, mostly for drunken behaviour. This year with alcohol outlets very limited, English fans have been praised as "exemplary" with not one arrest.

[vinapu]

and English team got 'fair play ' reward for having least number of yellow cards

[Travellerdave]

Another partial explanation of the good behavior of English fans in Qatar is that the trip there was rather expensive in terms of the airfare and accommodation. Generally more affluent people who could afford it, don’t cause trouble. Trouble at soccer events involving them has occurred  in European Cities, which are cheap to travel. There was no trouble during the 2018 World Cup held in Russia. I think there they had a fear of being sent to Siberia !. However I don’t disagree that the lack of cheap booze was a major factor.

 

[TotallyOz]

On 12/19/2022 at 9:32 PM, PeterRS said:

No doubt some will disagree with me, but I think Thailand should make travel insurance mandatory with quite high minimum limits on the policies. Indeed, i think every country should do the same. It is highly irresponsible for any individual to travel to any country without ensuring your health is protected and you personally are protected finacially from any hurt you may inflict on third parties. Travel policies are not an expensive addtion to over all travel costs. And for regular travellers, annual policies are proportionally even cheaper. For my recent 17 day trip to Taipei, full travel insurance arranged through my bank (which effectively subcontracts through Chubb), cost less than 1,000 baht. 

I agree with you. This should be completely compulsory for anyone traveling to another country IMHO.

 

[vinapu]

2 hours ago, TotallyOz said:

I agree with you. This should be completely compulsory for anyone traveling to another country IMHO.

 

then what will be next ? Mandatory quota of currency to exchange ?

[PeterRS]

57 minutes ago, vinapu said:

then what will be next ? Mandatory quota of currency to exchange ?

Sorry @vinapu but you cannot seriously consider that currency exchange is anything compared to a requirement for travel insurance? Having insurance to cover your own health is vital if you don't want to end up dying on someone's couch (as happened to one poster on this Board) or on a park bench.

[TotallyOz]

7 hours ago, vinapu said:

then what will be next ? Mandatory quota of currency to exchange ?

A certain amount of money is required to be in hand before entry. They don't check with Americans or some countries but they do for others. IMHO, again, this should be a requirement for anyone on a tourist visa.

[vinapu]

7 hours ago, PeterRS said:

Sorry @vinapu but you cannot seriously consider that currency exchange is anything compared to a requirement for travel insurance? Having insurance to cover your own health is vital if you don't want to end up dying on someone's couch (as happened to one poster on this Board) or on a park bench.

Yes I do.

I'm all for medical insurance and I count my  blessings daily that  all my quite long life I lived in countries where public health service was provided, even if I never was in hospital as patient. I know my day will come . But I'm very strongly against government mandates and regulations in population movement where it's not necessary as I consider it idea straight from totalitarian handbook

40 minutes ago, TotallyOz said:

A certain amount of money is required to be in hand before entry. IMHO, again, this should be a requirement for anyone on a tourist visa.

hair rising idea for reason described above. What about checking with every patron of restaurant if he has enough cash or working credit card before admitting him in and/ or taking order ?

[TotallyOz]

7 minutes ago, vinapu said:

hair rising idea for reason described above. What about checking with every patron of restaurant if he has enough cash or working credit card before admitting him in and/ or taking order ?

To me, a big difference between a restaurant and a country. If not enough for a restaurant, I assume the police can get involved. If not enough for a country, the immigration will get involved. I'm OK with either one.

Years back, I was checked in USA for money or a CC. They also checked for outbound flight and I had to book one at airport once before flying. I see no issue with requirements to enter a country (USA is much more restrictive to get visa).

[PeterRS]

11 minutes ago, vinapu said:

I'm all for medical insurance and I count my  blessings daily that  all my quite long life I lived in countries where public health service was provided, even if I never was in hospital as patient. I know my day will come. But I'm very strongly against government mandates and regulations in population movement where it's not necessary as I consider it idea straight from totalitarian handbook

Not necessary? You cannot seriously mean that you are against compulsory medical insurance simply because it's a government mandate! How crazy is that! What about those whose days will come and they are not insured? I assume you expect Thailand taxpayers just to pay their bills, whether it's for a motorbike accident or a serious brain aneurism. I have to say again that is plain crazy! Thailand has a perfect right to expect tourists and visitors to be covered by sufficient medical and Personal Accident insurance. If not, then those tourists/visitors deserve what might be coming to them. What about government mandates about taking drugs into a country? You are against these? If so, you'd better not fly at all. What about no nudity on beaches? Is that not a government mandate affecting populations?

Governments mandate all sorts of things regarding tourism. Tourists have to have a valid visa or a return ticket out of Thailand. In case you did not know, that's the law. It may be rarely enforced when you arrive in Thailand but I have twice almost been denied boarding at my departure airport because I had neither a visa nor a flight out of the country - once at Hong Kong on Cathay Pacific and once 18 years ago at Sydney on British Airways. My problem was that I lived here but for several years was travelling constantly, always purchased tickets here and never needed more than the 30-day visa waiver. The denial at Sydney was even though I was on a first class mileage ticket. The only way I was allowed on the flight was to sign a guarantee that if Thailand denied entry, I would have to pay the airline's airport fine and the cost of returning me to Sydney. I also had to give and sign a blank American Express chit. On that occasion I actually did have a flight out of Thailand 3 weeks later, but did not have the ticket with me and it was not accessible on BA's computer system. What would you have done had that government mandate affected you? No other mileage tickets in any class were available for more than a month.

[10tazione]

2 hours ago, PeterRS said:

The denial at Sydney was even though I was on a first class mileage ticket.

What do you mean? Why should this make a difference?

[vinapu]

5 hours ago, PeterRS said:

 You cannot seriously mean that you are against compulsory medical insurance simply because it's a government mandate! How crazy is that! What about those whose days will come and they are not insured? I assume you expect Thailand taxpayers just to pay their bills, whether it's for a motorbike accident or a serious brain aneurism. I have to say again that is plain crazy!

would you drink a bit of cold water Peter ?

Crazy or not, this is exactly situation we have  on most countries of the world .  You are well travelled so name few countries which are requiring travelers to have insurance before admitting them right now. In 2022 I visited following countries in alphabetic order Antigua, Barbados, Cambodia,  Canada, Germany,  Greece, Laos,  Mexico, Poland  Puerto Rico,  St Kitts, St Lucia, Thailand and USA. None of those countries with exception of Cambodia asked if I have an insurance , never mind prove  it. Cambodia did when applying for e-visa  but If I applied for visa in the airport they would not . How I know? I helped neighbor form my seat on the plane to file visa application  and assisted her in the process at Pochentong .

I agree countries have right of requesting it  but seem that world is moving around  without such an obstacle. As you  said , if we don't want to die on the bench we should have one  and I do but in process I'm again such a requirement. We have brains to buy it , don't need to borrow that from some bureaucrats.  

So again, I'm against mandatory medical insurance for travelers, nothing personal at stake as I always have it, since I travel a lot I  buy annual travel plan.  

[vinapu]

5 hours ago, PeterRS said:

Governments mandate all sorts of things regarding tourism.

Tourists have to have a valid visa or a return ticket out of Thailand. In case you did not know, that's the law. It may be rarely enforced when you arrive in Thailand but I have twice almost been denied boarding at my departure airport because I had neither a visa nor a flight out of the country - once at Hong Kong on Cathay Pacific and once 18 years ago at Sydney on British Airways. My problem was that I lived here but for several years was travelling constantly, always purchased tickets here and never needed more than the 30-day visa waiver. The denial at Sydney was even though I was on a first class mileage ticket. The only way I was allowed on the flight was to sign a guarantee that if Thailand denied entry, I would have to pay the airline's airport fine and the cost of returning me to Sydney. I also had to give and sign a blank American Express chit. On that occasion I actually did have a flight out of Thailand 3 weeks later, but did not have the ticket with me and it was not accessible on BA's computer system. What would you have done had that government mandate affected you? No other mileage tickets in any class were available for more than a month.

Perfect example of idiotic bureaucratic government's mandates, don't deny it in view of fact that you had ticket out of Thailand indeed. Thank you for saving me typing. 

To answer your question if that affected me  I'd buy refundable ticket out of Thailand right in airport and returned it for  a refund later

[vinapu]

6 hours ago, TotallyOz said:

Years back, I was checked in USA for money or a CC. They also checked for outbound flight and I had to book one at airport once before flying. I see no issue with requirements to enter a country (USA is much more restrictive to get visa).

bad example chosen as in  my quite vast personal  experience of crossing borders , crossing to USA and Canada was much less pleasant  experience ( sorry Americans and Canadians out there but I mean it ) that it was crossing to Soviet Union which I did  4 times in it's day.