Freshboys, Dreamboys Hot Male- Not many customers?

[vinapu]

25 minutes ago, PeterRS said:

This young man hardly spoke to his 'crush' during dinner, spending most of his time texting and staring at his phone

this reminds me my owns story with  guyI brought to BKK from Pattaya  I just told in another thread few days ago

[Slut1215]

I was at dreamboys last weekend as I opened a bottle of whisky. Had to finish it. But I did notice the lack of offs as there were many boys left on stage.

On saturday night i went to moonlight after a 3some. and i off-ed this guy called Bee or B. He is from Chiang mai. so my type and he was 9/10 in bed....

[Bravo]

at dreamboys last night (saturday), pretty much full house audience, 30+ boys on stage

[jason1975]

The customers are slowly but surely coming back to the bars. Just in time for Christmas and New Year. Quite a diverse range of age, gender and nationalities. I actually like the post-Covid vibe without the loud customers from China.

[Lucky]

Where in the world would you be able to see a sexy live show for only $15? A 500 baht cover or a 500 baht drink with fee admission is not too high. There are costs to putting on these shows.

[Bravo]

The boy i offed from dreamboys ytd, i asked him if anymore fk show (cuz i tot there was, but i stayed till nearly midnight alr), and he said no more as not allowed, so we left lol.. initially i was just waiting for it.. but fret not, lots of big cock shows and some sucking action >.<

[reader]

2 hours ago, Lucky said:

Where in the world would you be able to see a sexy live show for only $15? A 500 baht cover or a 500 baht drink with fee admission is not too high. There are costs to putting on these shows.

When I read whether 1,000 or 1,500 is too much of a tip, or how outrageous a 500 entrance fee is, I apply the Groucho Marx reality test: how much would you have to pay me to have sex with a clone of myself?

That puts everything back into perspective.

[MarcSingap]

On 12/18/2022 at 11:29 AM, jason1975 said:

The customers are slowly but surely coming back to the bars. Just in time for Christmas and New Year. Quite a diverse range of age, gender and nationalities. I actually like the post-Covid vibe without the loud customers from China.

fully agree, not having the mainland Chinese customers is a blessing....

[vinapu]

3 hours ago, MarcSingap said:

not having the mainland Chinese customers is a blessing....

not for hotels and restaurants which cater to them

[MarcSingap]

14 hours ago, vinapu said:

not for hotels and restaurants which cater to them

No problem in Bangkok.

Of course very bad for Chiang Mai...

[Londoner]

Can the Thai tourist industry survive long-term without Chinese visitors? and how can the gay scene  return to former glories if the tourist industry as a whole doesn't flourish? chiang Mai was certainly suffering badly in November. And  parts of Pattaya are pretty depressing too.

As far as Bangkok is concerned, I was interested to discover that money exchanges in the Silom and Surawong areas are almost non-existent. I had to queue up at a bank.

[MarcSingap]

3 hours ago, Londoner said:

Can the Thai tourist industry survive long-term without Chinese visitors? and how can the gay scene  return to former glories if the tourist industry as a whole doesn't flourish? chiang Mai was certainly suffering badly in November. And  parts of Pattaya are pretty depressing too.

As far as Bangkok is concerned, I was interested to discover that money exchanges in the Silom and Surawong areas are almost non-existent. I had to queue up at a bank.

Humm I always go to SuperRich money exchange in silom. Incredible good rates. It is in south silom, close to Pullman G hotel.

[fedssocr]

6 hours ago, Londoner said:

Can the Thai tourist industry survive long-term without Chinese visitors? and how can the gay scene  return to former glories if the tourist industry as a whole doesn't flourish? chiang Mai was certainly suffering badly in November. And  parts of Pattaya are pretty depressing too.

As far as Bangkok is concerned, I was interested to discover that money exchanges in the Silom and Surawong areas are almost non-existent. I had to queue up at a bank.

according to this somewhat dated info on Wikipedia, PRC tourists accounted for around a quarter of all tourist arrivals. So without some serious work diversifying their incoming tourist market the industry will really struggle. Of course in addition to Covid the Chinese economy faces lots of issues that might well put a dent in their citizens' ability to travel

 

"

In 2014, 4.6 million Chinese visitors travelled to Thailand. In 2015, Chinese tourists numbered 7.9 million or 27% of all international tourist arrivals, 29.8 million; 8.75 million Chinese tourists visited Thailand in 2016. In 2017, 27% of the tourists that came to Thailand came from China. Thailand relies heavily on Chinese tourists to meet its tourism revenue target of 2.2 trillion baht in 2015 and 2.3 trillion in 2016. However, in 2020, it was reported that Chinese tourists now ranked Thailand as third most popular foreign tourist destination, having been the top previously.

It is estimated that the average Chinese tourist remains in the country for one week and spends 30,000–40,000 baht (US$1,000–1,300) per person, per trip. The average Chinese tourist spends 6,400 baht (US$180) per day—more than the average visitor's 5,690 baht (US$160). According to Thailand's Tourism Authority, the number of Chinese tourists rose by 93% in the first quarter of 2013, an increase that was attributed to the popularity of the Chinese film Lost in Thailand that was filmed in the northern province of Chiang Mai. Chinese media outlets have claimed that Thailand superseded Hong Kong as the top destination for Chinese travellers during the 2013 May Day holiday. In 2013, the Chinese National Tourism Administration published A Guide to Civilized Tourism which has specific statements regarding how to act as a tourist in Thailand."

[reader]

54 minutes ago, fedssocr said:

according to this somewhat dated info on Wikipedia, PRC tourists accounted for around a quarter of all tourist arrivals. So without some serious work diversifying their incoming tourist market the industry will really struggle. Of course in addition to Covid the Chinese economy faces lots of issues that might well put a dent in their citizens' ability to travel

From Channel News Asia

Adapting Asia Pacific tourism to a post-pandemic future

JOONDALUP, Australia: The Asia Pacific tourism industry was thriving before the COVID-19 pandemic, driven by strong demand from Chinese tourists with increasing disposable incomes.

Pre-pandemic, Chinese tourists’ arrival to the Asia Pacific region was forecast to increase to 150 million by 2020, with an aggregate expenditure of US$230 billion. But this did not materialise due to pandemic-related travel restrictions that still affect Chinese tourists today.

Historically, Chinese tourists tended to travel as part of package trips involving group tours with multiple destination stops. This trend is changing as younger Chinese tourists favour more independent forms of travel that allow greater flexibility.

But the thriving tourism industry was completely disrupted by the pandemic. The Asia Pacific suffered an 84 per cent plunge in overseas visitors and recorded a 300 million decrease in tourist arrivals. This led to a massive slowdown in the aviation, hotel, restaurant and tourism industries that still lingers today.

Continues at

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/commentary/china-hong-kong-travel-visitor-asia-tourism-covid-19-outbreak-3159991

 

[maump]

On 12/16/2022 at 7:02 PM, macaroni21 said:

Here's a question for those who were recently in Dream Boy Bangkok. Outside of showtime, when the boys were on stage with their numbers pinned to their waists, were they in jeans, shorts or briefs? 

I was there 14th I think... Mostly white shorts.  Mostly topless. 5 or 6 twinks out of 20+ I saw.  Bought 2 boys drinks, off'd one, what's app the other the next day and what's app the first one by again the next. 

[vinapu]

Our poster macaroni21 recently published 2 excellent reports / analysis of bars in question plus Jupiter in his blog.

Take my advice and rush to read it

Three gogo bars in December 2022: their shows – ShamelessMack2 (travel.blog)

 

[10tazione]

Interesting calculations!

I have 2 points where i struggle a bit.

From

"this means that on any given day there are 9 x 740 = 6,660 gay male tourists in Thailand"

to

"They are not all in Bangkok. Let’s say half of them are outside Bangkok, and half in the capital city. That means 3,330 gay male tourists in Bangkok on a typical day."

Do people really spend 50% of their Th. holiday in BKK? Hard to believe for me, but maybe there is some data?

 

The other point is

"I shall be conservative and assume only 20% of gay male tourists are interested in buying sex. That still means there are about 660 gay male tourists in Bangkok on a typical day who are open to the possibility of buying sex."

20% really? Interested maybe, but doing it? Many too proud or too sticky to do it. And if they do, maybe they are not interested every day they are in Bkk but only once?

What do others think?

[10tazione]

Another question:

From a business standpoint, isnt it better for the bar that guys are not being offed? If a guy sits with 2 customers in one evening, thats 2 drinks thats 1000 Baht, that is probably more earning for the bar than 1 off fee ...And if the guys are not keen on having sex with us, it isnt bad for the guys either ...

[reader]

I take an Airbnb apartment and stay exclusively in Bangkok for 30-day minimum. Have been coming to Thailand for 20 years and have done my share of traveling throughout the region. I've come to know bkk and chose to spend all of my time there (I acknowledge I'm in the minority).

As for the number of gay international tourists, your estimate is better than mine.

As for the number of gay local residents, I wouldn't hazards a guess. My experience is that many men--from throughout East Asia--who'd never identify as "gay" will on occasion engage in sex with men. That's one of the reasons I keep returning.

From the owners' business standpoint, drinks represent their main income source. Off fees are a distant second. For the performers, it's just the opposite, as you suggest.

How a customer decides whether to off a guy varies. Personally, I make that that decision early on based on one simple criteria (does he smile specifically at me more than once) and one slightly complex factor (a combination of curb appeal and sexiness that translates into the promise of a satisfying experience). Since I've been doing this for many years, I've tweaked the methodology to an automatic response that's more instinctive than objective.

[jason1975]

7 hours ago, vinapu said:

Our poster macaroni21 recently published 2 excellent reports / analysis of bars in question plus Jupiter in his blog.

Take my advice and rush to read it

Three gogo bars in December 2022: their shows – ShamelessMack2 (travel.blog)

 

Excellent analysis! Thanks for sharing!

[bkkmfj2648]

2 hours ago, 10tazione said:

20% really? Interested maybe, but doing it? Many too proud or too sticky to do it. And if they do, maybe they are not interested every day they are in Bkk but only once?

This statement is SO true.  I was formerly one of those "too proud" to consider the idea of paying for an off.  It was thanks to this forum in my early years here that I realized that I could maximize my sexual pleasure by paying for the experience - as I discovered that by being the consumer / buyer of said services - that I could construct the menu and program of what I wanted to do with my offs.  This is SO much more harder when you are chasing free guys - to get your menus and program desires to match up.  Once I discovered the joy of having what I want - almost always - I never turned back to being "too proud".  And when I hear of proud non-paying guys bitch and complain that they are not getting what they want - I suggest that they get over the embarrassment of paying for it to almost immediately find what they are looking for, where they waste much less time and effort of the endless hunting for unsatisfactory sex.

[vinapu]

2 hours ago, 10tazione said:

Another question:

From a business standpoint, isnt it better for the bar that guys are not being offed? If a guy sits with 2 customers in one evening, thats 2 drinks thats 1000 Baht, that is probably more earning for the bar than 1 off fee ...And if the guys are not keen on having sex with us, it isnt bad for the guys either ...

it may be something in what you say, it's why I always say let the owners run the business and let the boys to decide what is economically beneficial to them.

I'm personally not worried about those calculations as I have mine - all I need is one bar open and one boy I like inside of that bar.

[vinapu]

5 minutes ago, bkkmfj2648 said:

This is SO much more harder when you are chasing free guys - to get your menus and program desires to match up.

is well known and often repeated truth that free sex tends to be most expensive 

[macaroni21]

@10tazione I am glad you're taking up the challenge to think through these issues. Indeed my numbers are basically back-of-the-envelope estimates, so they are certainly open to debate. On the two questions you had:

1.  I believe you're saying my estimate that tourists spend about half their days in Bangkok and half outside Bangkok, is too generous to Bangkok. I tried looking for data as to room nights in Bangkok versus room nights outside Bangkok but couldn't find them. In any case, I wasn't sure they'd be any good even if I did find them, because room nights data would almost surely include domestic tourists, rendering the numbers pretty useless when we're talking about foreign tourists.

However, it is useful to imagine how a typical tourist who spends typically nine days in Thailand would divide his time. It's quite easy to imagine him spending a few days outside Bangkok e.g. Chiangmai or Pattaya in the middle of his holiday, but spends the first few nights and the last few nights in Bangkok, for convenience vis-a-vis Suvarnabhumi airport.

I accept that there are tourists who fly directly to Chiangmai or Phuket and spend their whole vacation in the respective regions, but the Chiangmai numbers are small, the the Phuket numbers strongly seasonal. Counterbalancing that, there are plenty of business visitors who spend all their days in Bangkok and never leave the city. On balance I came to the estimate that about half the room nights of foreign visitors are probably spent in Bangkok.

If you're a white farang, you need to resist the tendency to imagine the "typical tourist" as someone like you. The simple fact is that the majority of tourists coming to Thailand are Asian. They make relatively short trips of a week or slightly more and their interests centre around food, entertainment and shopping.

2. I believe you're saying that the rough figure of 20% of gay male tourists in Bangkok who are open to buying sex is too high an estimate. What do you think the percentage is likely to be? Note: I say "open to buying sex", not "actually buying sex." In fact, I emphasised in my blogpost that many of them are still not buying (my casual observation). Thus the point in my post - that the bars are not maximising their potential.

There is discussion above about gay visitors in the closet, or too proud to buy. I have allowed for this - they're among the 80 percent who I reckon are not open to buying sex. Is 80 percent still too little? Do we think that maybe 90 or 95% are not at all open to the possibility of buying sex?

You raised a good point about whether even if one were open to buying sex, would one be open to buying every day that one is in Bangkok? Some will be, some will not. I used to be somewhat like Vinapu twenty years ago when Thailand and Bangkok were new, bright, alluring and addictive. My daily rhythm was massage in the daytime (with sex), then off a bar boy in the evening, so twice a day. I was super-horny. In building my estimates, I assumed that the super-horny and the not-so-horny will probably balance each other out to average about 0.5 to 1 sex session per gay male tourist (who is open to buying) per day. 

So, if there is a potential market of 660 gay men in Bangkok open to buying sex, but they only buy 0.5 times a day there should still be 330 sex purchases a day (apps, massages and gogo bars combined). My observation is that the actual number of sex purchases by tourists is significantly lower than that.

Thus the point of my post: In the sex business, there is quite a bit of upside potential among the tourists who are already in Thailand, but the potential is not properly exploited by the businesses. The question is: what's putting these tourists off?

[10tazione]

1 hour ago, macaroni21 said:

2. I believe you're saying that the rough figure of 20% of gay male tourists in Bangkok who are open to buying sex is too high an estimate. What do you think the percentage is likely to be

Thanks for the extensive answer and in general for your interesting blog!

I have no idea but my feeling would be towards 5%. But then we all live in a social bubble that makes estimating the general population so difficult...

Some more points:

- Businessman: do they even have time to off guys?

- Even if someone likes Pizza, can you lure him to eat Pizza every day? Some want more variety to their diet and eat a Schnitzel from time to time and some even go to a lady bar I want to say the maximum potential is not 100%.