Report on Phuket

[12is12]

I arrived in Zag at 21:50; was told the show starts at 22:30; decided to take a 2nd look at the massage places. Seemed like in the aftrnn: no pdstrians; 4-5 boys sitting in front of each parlor; again none appealing. The boys were less persistently lively than at Jomtien, most didnt bother to get out of their chairs.
I wld rtrn to that soi after midnight, and the next day and night; same same.

Back at Zag, the cabaret show takes place on the street (see pics below); at times cars and motorbikes passing by the prfrmrs. I took a seat at the side near G-Bar. Bad idea. 15 mnts into the show, G started their outside show, volume drowning Zag's. Apparently business relations deteriorated since Emiel's rprt, and so much for the non-competitive ethic we heard about in J. I moved to the other side.

It was a good show, with 5 alternating ladyboys dancing, dressed up glittering, mouths synchronized with the soundtrack. 

A little after 23:00 the show moved inside, and improved. Two things changed.

One, the inside isnt a bar setting but rather a dance club around a stage. Two, a troupe of 7 masculine sexy shirtless boys appeared, dancing professionally in sync btw the singing bits. A lot of energy in the air, with patrons dancing clapping shouting. At intervals, the 7 boys mingled shortly with the crowd. All this lasted till 02:00.

Given the deafening volume, at one point I took a waiter outside to inquire about what was uppermost in my mind: gays or straights? Offable? Apparently he wasnt sure as to their prfrncs, but yes - offable. How much? 10,000(!) split btw bar and boy. That was so ovbviously a lie, which meant that he perceived me as an out-of-his-depth farang...   (-:

Back inside I noticed two farangs who were obviously well aquainted with the place, just as they were leaving. I followed them outside, and one of them was most obliging with info.

Yes, at least 6 of the 7 were gays. Yes, offable. Fees: to the bar 1500; to the boy - negotiable, prbbly 1500-2000.

Seizing the opportunity, I asked him also about something that intrigued me: how cld the bar's business model be sustainble?
There was no enterance/cover charge and beer was 160 b; how cld they afford such a 3 and a half hours extravaganza?
He said that expenses were lower than I thought. For examples: the bar bought the beer for just 60 b; prfmrs paid for their own glittering costumes; staff relied mainly on tips; etc. Even though, it seems to me quite a feat if only for maintenance and utilities, not to mention actually making money....

Anyway, back to the boys. Given the noise level, it was impossible to really engage anyone as they huddled close to the ear of one patron or another. All I wanted was to get a wtsp/line nmbr. However, I m not at my best in the wee small hours, so I let it drop.
Nvrtheless, I had a great time, the format being so dfrnt from Pattaya, and the boys - much more appealing.

 

The next night, per Emiel's inspiration, I went to G bar. It's much smaller; the cabaret - good but less so than Zag's; max 20 patrons cmprd to at least 80. Again there was a 15 mnts volume overlap. M not sorry I went there, both to show support as Emiel had suggested,and bcs of a very talented ladyboy (actually ladyman by his appearance) mimicking Japanese song acts.

After the show ended, I joined the inside-party at Zag. Again srprsd there was no cover charge or even a mndtry 1st drink, I donated 300 b. 

 

In both bars I didnt see any staff sitting with patrons, or appealing to me. I m glad the next day a masseur called Adam from Blue Dolphin solicited me on grndr. Gave me the best erotic body massage I rmmbr, for 1500 b.

[jason1975]

Lovely photos!

[12is12]

Thx

[Gaybutton]

5 hours ago, 12is12 said:

Yes, at least 6 of the 7 were gays. Yes, offable. Fees: to the bar 1500; to the boy - negotiable, prbbly 1500-2000.

Am I reading this correctly?  They are charging 1500 just to take a boy off?  And then 1500-2000 for the boy after paying that fee?  In other words around 3000 baht for a short time off?  And that's after paying for drinks and "drink for boy"?  For me, that's not no, but hell no! 

The prices some of these bars, including Pattaya and Bangkok, are coming up with these days are unheard of and, in my opinion, just crazy.  Maybe some people are willing to pay those kinds of prices, but not me.

I'll stick with the apps.

[12is12]

GB, I can certainly sympathize with ur reaction. However, I suggest considering the following.

1. These nmbrs r what the expat approximated. I/we dont know the extnt to which he was crct. I sure hope someone checks this out.

2. At least in Latin America (with which m more familiar), at some venues the"stars"get more. For me these 7 boys fit the dfntion.

3. No drink for boy. 160 b for beer (in my case 100 for Sprite) doesnt seem expnsv. 

4. As I've written, "crazy" wld btr fit Zag's largesse. For one drink u get 3 and a half hours of cabaret show + troupe of 7 + dancing club. If u join after the show had moved inside, u can even skip the oblgtry 1st drnk, bcs they cant/wont pin u down (very few seats). 

M very much lkng frwrd to additional rprts from there, especially about offs.

[khaolakguy]

While not knowing whether the prices quoted, from another customer, are correct, I would make the point that these are guys with actual jobs as dancers in the show. Their primary function is to do that, which they do pretty well, and to entertain, rather than to be offed. They could choose not to be offed at all, but work on tips from drinking with customers when not performing. 

I would say that on my recent trip a couple of nights in Zag were great fun. The place really creates a great party atmosphere and the staff, performers and waiters are a big part of that. As 12is12 advised, it is more a gay dance club, thai style with groups standing around tables, where a mix of people go to have fun rather than necessarily hook up, although being a gay club there is also a good chance of that from the other customers, some of whom are freelancers.

A good cross section of people from farang couples, thai couples, mixed couples, to a post work night out group from one of the gay massage parlours and a group of guys from Singapore.

A lot of flirting with customers and floor staff(as opposed to performers), and if we had wanted "company"to take home at the end of the night we would have had options, from either the customers or staff. 

 

[vinapu]

4 hours ago, Gaybutton said:

Am I reading this correctly?  They are charging 1500 just to take a boy off?  And then 1500-2000 for the boy after paying that fee?  In other words around 3000 baht for a short time off?  And that's after paying for drinks and "drink for boy"?  For me, that's not no, but hell no! 

The prices some of these bars, including Pattaya and Bangkok, are coming up with these days are unheard of and, in my opinion, just crazy.  Maybe some people are willing to pay those kinds of prices, but not me.

I'll stick with the apps.

Like with all rising prices, first we are screaming crazy , then gradually we get more accommodating. When I came first to Thailand in 2001 , 1000 baht  for short time was shocking extortion.

While 3000 for short time is racket , some people  are willing to pay it acting on logic that is better to overpay and be happy because of boy performance, looks and body than pay 1000 and be happy only because  2000 was saved. Saying that I agree that often performance and  fee charged have not relation at all. On another hand certain types are  scarce on the market and with market logic they warrant premium. If one is cursed , like me , with being fond of hunky built guys may face choice of cold bed of empty wallet on some nights. 

Third consideration is length of stay. Resident has is easy as has time to search and even more important has time to built pool of  available  guys , not to mention getting volume discount. Travellers on longer stay had similar advantage but those who are on 1-2 weeks vacations need to move fast and often decide yes or no between lonely and sweaty night.

I'm not even going into discussion bar vs. apps but with market forces at work there's danger that bars gradually disappear which we already see but apps will become more costly. Even in some recent reports we hear that some guys start asking for more and there are those who  don't budge.

On my last tip I was surprised that  one of bar  guys I offed quite a few times in the past was holding firm and did not yield so obviously guy have their own calculations.  

[gayinpattaya]

6 hours ago, Gaybutton said:

Am I reading this correctly?  They are charging 1500 just to take a boy off?  And then 1500-2000 for the boy after paying that fee?  In other words around 3000 baht for a short time off?  And that's after paying for drinks and "drink for boy"?  For me, that's not no, but hell no! 

The prices some of these bars, including Pattaya and Bangkok, are coming up with these days are unheard of and, in my opinion, just crazy.  Maybe some people are willing to pay those kinds of prices, but not me.

I'll stick with the apps.

There was a "fad" 2 weeks ago that I am told was started by Winnie at Divarium Bar in Jomtien Complex, when boys wanted 1500 ST, after paying bar fines and boy drinks. (2000B+)  The boys all spoke to each other, and it was every bar within a few days. Even the soi dogs wanted 1500. 

It died pretty quick. Most boys are back at 1000 now. 1500 overnight. 
 

[reader]

1 hour ago, vinapu said:

On my last tip I was surprised that  one of bar  guys I offed quite a few times in the past was holding firm and did not yield so obviously guy have their own calculations.  

Just as those of us who have recently traveled to Thailand, we're all too familiar with inflation in our home countries. Guys we meet--or become reacquainted with from earlier trips--are likewise dealing with rising costs. As Vinapu observes, they're making decisions on how they can compensate by raising their fees. And why not? Aren't we receiving salary increases for the services we provide. We always reserve the right to reject their asking price if we feel it's far out of whack.

I think that's what I like about massage shops. We get a choice of service provider. If there's no minimum price in effect, we're free to negotiate in advance or tip at the end. In the majority of shops in Silom (with notable exceptions) the latter arrangement applies, particularly those on Silom Soi 6 where I had many very satisfactory experiences.

For the moment, there's something for everybody in Thailand. If you want a show and a parade of guys, they're available. Host bars also exist and of course there's always the apps. Sure, there are other destinations but I don't believe they can provide choices in such abundance.

[12is12]

In Jomtien EVERYONE said 1500 

[gayinpattaya]

41 minutes ago, 12is12 said:

In Jomtien EVERYONE said 1500 

Yup they did. 

[vinapu]

3 hours ago, gayinpattaya said:

There was a "fad" 2 weeks ago that I am told was started by Winnie at Divarium Bar in Jomtien Complex, when boys wanted 1500 ST, after paying bar fines and boy drinks. (2000B+)  The boys all spoke to each other, and it was every bar within a few days. Even the soi dogs wanted 1500. 

It died pretty quick. Most boys are back at 1000 now. 1500 overnight. 
 

market forces at work but there's no doubt in my mind after a while they will try again

[gayinpattaya]

3 minutes ago, vinapu said:

market forces at work but there's no doubt in my mind after a while they will try again

When the market supports it, I will also. Give it another couple of weeks, it may be possible. It's getting REALLY busy around here!

The timing I am pointing out was just groundless silliness. We can't expect more from un-educated farm boys I guess. Having said that I personally think it more likely came from the soi dog mamasan at Divarium. That creature has been scamming farang for decades! 

My main concern is tourists not experiencing Jomtien Complex at it's best, and thus not returning. The old crowd are dropping off. New blood is needed. 

[vinapu]

2 hours ago, reader said:

We always reserve the right to reject their asking price if we feel it's far out of whack.

 

and as long as is rejected without undue drama ( i.e. o my God , 3000 , are you stupid or what? ) it will be taken with understanding and may even lead to meeting you somewhere in between.

Like in case I just reported in my trip report. Pattaya guy wanted to go with me to Bangkok for 4 days- his idea. How much do you want ? 5000 per day. I can give you 3000 as it's 4 days so still a lot of money. After bit of checking stamp collection , shy proposal came  - 4000. Because it was shy,  I knew I had room to bring it down but opted to approve for simple reason - I liked the guy and it was my quiet hope he will go with me anyways.

I know the guy and I'm sure that if I jumped on  him like " 5000 it's too much , are you sick ?" he would stiffen up in wrong way, ruining night and chance for that 4 days foray.

positive underscoring ' 12000 is still a lot of money ' did the trick, 

It did not work as intended as we learn soon but that's separate story.

[vinapu]

7 minutes ago, gayinpattaya said:

We can't expect more from un-educated farm boys I guess.

I'd give them some credit, some of them are quite smart with money. On another hand I know a few educated people, even in position in financial industry who are  perhapas good with other people's  money but not in theirs

[vinapu]

11 minutes ago, gayinpattaya said:

My main concern is tourists not experiencing Jomtien Complex at it's best, and thus not returning. The old crowd are dropping off. New blood is needed. 

that's valid concern but bright side is for a lot of comers even inflated Thai prices are still much less than they pay  at home so it mitigates sticker shock.

[12is12]

Sorry guys; I lost u.

What's the claim here? That we shldnt pay more than 1000 for st?

[Gaybutton]

2 hours ago, 12is12 said:

Sorry guys; I lost u.

What's the claim here? That we shldnt pay more than 1000 for st?

Yes, that would be my claim.  I would not go higher than 1500 for short time and the boy would have to be quite spectacular to get me to give him that much.  I realize that many going to Thailand for a 1 or 2 week holiday are willing to spend more to get what they came for, but there are limits.  1500 would be mine.  That is speaking for myself.  If others are willing to pay more and have different limits, that's their decision.

As for me, if bars really are charging those kinds of prices and the boys want 1500+, they're going to have to offer much more and a lot better than the same as they've been offering for the last 20 years. 

 

"I never get lucky with sex.  For me, a threesome is jerking off with both hands."

-  Rodney Dangerfield

[PeterRS]

1 hour ago, Gaybutton said:

there are limits.  1500 would be mine.  That is speaking for myself.  If others are willing to pay more and have different limits, that's their decision.

Isn't that the point? What someone tips is their choice. Naturally everyone - be they rich or poor or more likely somewhere in between - has their own priorities, desires and limitations. If my friend A is happy tipping 1,500 and friend B 3,000, that's entirely a matter for them in my view - not me. If both are happy with the outcome, why should we on this Board keep on all but challenging those who tip higher or lower than we might do?

I've read posts about this from guys who say that the offs need to earn a living and X amount is too low, just as I have (much more frequently) other posts from guys who write a larger tip distorts the market! But isn't that precisely what it is? A market. A market for services. And as with all offering services, pricing is dependent on the market. I understand that newbies do like to have some information. But so much has been quite regularly posted, finding it by taking a few minutes of time on the Search engine is surely not an unreasonable request! Or could there be a separate thread limited to discussions on tips and offs?

[vinapu]

4 hours ago, 12is12 said:

Sorry guys; I lost u.

What's the claim here? That we shldnt pay more than 1000 for st?

don't worry, pay what YOU think is right as it's only you who can assess whether  your money was spent well.

Gaybutton is right than we should have internal limit  if only to prevent our pockets from overheating  but what your limit will be  for you to decide.

But In Jomtien complex and apps in Pattaya ,  yes it looks that 1000 for ST is rate most boys will be content with . Offer this to one of Jupiter  or Moonlight guys , all you will get at best will be THE LOOK. Double it and you will have good start with those guys.

[Gaybutton]

1 hour ago, PeterRS said:

Isn't that the point? What someone tips is their choice.

It would be if we were talking about actual tips.  But these "tip for boy" - are they truly tips?  I don't see it that way at all.  I see it as a demand for the minimum to give a boy, whether it ought to be called a tip or called something else.

Way back in yesteryear, these tips really were tips.  Now we still call it tips, but that is in name only.   From where I sit that's not what they are anymore.  I don't think we need to bother trying to find a different word or phrase for it.  We'll probably always call them tips.  But I think most of us realize they are in reality demands,  That can be negotiated, but since when does anyone negotiate true tips?

What I give to a waiter in a restaurant - that's a tip.  What I give to a delivery boy - that's a tip.  What I give to a boy I've taken off - that used to be a tip.  Now it is a minimum expected fee.

[BiggusDikkus]

6 hours ago, vinapu said:

4000

4,000 baht per day -- 16,000 baht in total, then -- sounds like a lot of money. Is it usually super expensive to bring a Pattaya guy to Bangkok? I thought giving someone four days worth of business would earn the buyer a discount. I'm thinking 2,000 baht a day plus meals, coffee, cover charges, drinks, room service and the like would be generous.

[vinapu]

32 minutes ago, Gaybutton said:

 

What I give to a waiter in a restaurant - that's a tip.  What I give to a delivery boy - that's a tip.  What I give to a boy I've taken off - that used to be a tip.  Now it is a minimum expected fee.

I agree with your statement 

if somebody asks me it suits me well, there's service , it should be fee

[Boy69]

 

4 minutes ago, BiggusDikkus said:

4,000 baht per day -- 16,000 baht in total, then -- sounds like a lot of money. Is it usually super expensive to bring a Pattaya guy to Bangkok? I thought giving someone four days worth of business would earn the buyer a discount. I'm thinking 2,000 baht a day plus meals, coffee, cover charges, drinks, room service and the like would be generous.

I doubt any boy will agree for 2000 Baht per day for LT , 2500 is the minimum. My last visit Vietnamese boy in BKK agreed to my offer for 3000 Baht per day for 10 days trip with me I doubt he would agree for less than that.

[vinapu]

7 minutes ago, BiggusDikkus said:

4,000 baht per day -- 16,000 baht in total, then -- sounds like a lot of money. Is it usually super expensive to bring a Pattaya guy to Bangkok? I thought giving someone four days worth of business would earn the buyer a discount. I'm thinking 2,000 baht a day plus meals, coffee, cover charges, drinks, room service and the like would be generous.

I did it twice in the past pre-covid  and paid 3000 per day, in one case it was what boy asked for , in another  what I volunteered and he approved i.e took the money with smile. 

2000 plus expenses  sounds about right as it's long time Pattaya rate on another hand  if boy is with us whole day it also means it available for carnal pleasures all the time  so 2000 will be bit on lower side. 

There was reason I preferred to be generous with guy in question so I agreed to meet him mid way. Was it right call? as we learn soon , not necessary.