Trouble in CSTO

[alvnv]

Members of the Russia-led Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO) call for a truce at the summit in Yerevan, while the prime minister of the host country refuses to sign the joint document:
https://www.txtreport.com/news/2022-11-24-putin-explodes-and-throws-pen-video!-csto-member-states-call-for-a-truce--and-some-people-refuse-to-sign-documents-international.H1jixWpUj.html

[lookin]

OMG, I thought you said COSTCO!  And here I am down to my last can of tuna. 

Re CSTO, it's good to see Putin getting some grief closer to home.  When it comes to his countrymen, though, it seems his popularity rating is as high as ever.  Apparently, it was over 80% in January.

I've never been to Russia and I wonder if any posters here have ever spent time in the country.  I'm curious as to what separates the 80% who like Putin from the 20% who don't.  Is there a difference in political awareness?  Or in degree of nationalism?  Or in economic wellbeing?

Any insights would be welcome.

 

[TotallyOz]

1 hour ago, lookin said:

OMG, I thought you said COSTCO!  And here I am down to my last can of tuna. 

Re CSTO, it's good to see Putin getting some grief closer to home.  When it comes to his countrymen, though, it seems his popularity rating is as high as ever.  Apparently, it was over 80% in January.

I've never been to Russia and I wonder if any posters here have ever spent time in the country.  I'm curious as to what separates the 80% who like Putin from the 20% who don't.  Is there a difference in political awareness?  Or in degree of nationalism?  Or in economic wellbeing?

Any insights would be welcome.

 

Lookin, I have been there and enjoyed my time there but that was 20 years ago. I don't know what the situation is like. I do have friends that are Russian and they are pro Putin. They also support the war the invasion. I don't understand it anymore than I understand the mass support for Donald Trump. I think so much has to do with wanting a strong leader who in their view cares for them.

[stevenkesslar]

5 hours ago, lookin said:

I've never been to Russia and I wonder if any posters here have ever spent time in the country.  I'm curious as to what separates the 80% who like Putin from the 20% who don't.

I've never been there, either.  What I have read is that while those Levada polls are "accurate," it's a bit like US polls now.  But on steroids.  Like maybe Trump supporters don't answer the polls.  Or maybe they willfully misdirect pollsters.  For whatever reason, they end up being not quite as accurate as they used to be.  At least in elections when Trump is on the ballot.

PUTIN’S APPROVAL RATING

There is an obvious pattern where a majority of people say they approve of Putin, whether they actually do or not.  And also that when he goes nationalist, like Crimea or Ukraine, there is a surge in approval.  Makes sense.  W. was adored when he started the Iraq War.  Not so much by 2008.  So if the same thing is very gradually happening to Putin, like it did after he invaded Crimea, but then later his economy went bad, it's only because he deserves it.  

The other thing we know is that the best thing about opposing Putin's war is you go to jail.  The worst thing is maybe you go to the front, to become manure.  So that probably has to be figured into why the polls themselves maybe aren't the most reliable.

Arguably, what separates two different types of Russians is a bicycle.  Or plane ticket.  We know a lot of Russia's best and brightest are leaving.  Wonder why?

[alvnv]

I don’t know how true this 80% is if they have to monitor social media for all the cuss words next to his name or image:

https://zona.media/article/2023/02/10/bzdlo
 

[unicorn]

Well, a major issue is that there is little place in Russia for anyone to hear anything critical of Putin. Any reporter who would say anything critical of Putin would be either murdered or to a Siberian work camp. If Fox News were the only source of news in the US, I'd hate to think of the level of support Trump would have--probably also around 80%. Even individual protests are dealt with severely in Russia. When all you hear over and over again is what a brilliant and wonderful man Putin is, what else is there to think? At least he didn't make his whole country suffer with the "Zero Covid" policies of Xi. 

[lookin]

I can understand the North Koreans being so far off the grid that they would give Kim Jong-Un high approval ratings, but I'd have thought that enough Russians would be aware of the hell Putin is causing in Ukraine for him to drop in the ratings.

If I'm hearing stories of Russians lining up to get out, and Russian soldiers being used as cannon fodder, and Russian criminals being released back into their communities, why are 80% of Russians agreeing that Putin is doing a good job?  Are they misinformed, or am I?

And then Oz's Russian friends have Oz to turn to for an outside perspective, yet they still think highly of Putin and his 'special operation'.  I'm just having trouble understanding what they're seeing that I'm not.  And vice versa.

I guess one difference between us could be that most Russians will support anything that could bring back the old Soviet Union, while I couldn't care less.  But that's just speculation on my part.

It's been many years since I've personally talked with someone who's just back from Russia and I'm hoping that some better-connected folks than I am can weigh in with some fresh insights.

[stevenkesslar]

2 hours ago, unicorn said:

If Fox News were the only source of news in the US ...

Huh?  WTF?

I thought Fox News WAS the only source of news in the US.  Isn't the rest fake?  😉

But back to reality

45 minutes ago, lookin said:

I'm just having trouble understanding what they're seeing that I'm not.  And vice versa.

Yeah, it's hard to understand how a warmonger could get like 75 % to 80 % approval, isn't it?

Oops!  🤥

Patriots who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.  Now, granted, I had you figured for one of those peacenik types real quick, @lookin.  Because I was in the 25 % who thought Dick Cheney's 1 % Doctrine was 99 % whack job. 

But I think two parts of that W. graph apply.

The 9/11 spike applies, in that I'm sure many right-wing or nationalist Russians feel that they were basically attacked by Ukraine, as well as indirectly by the US, when we put the Jew Nazi in charge.  Whatever!  If that sounds 99 % whack job, think about Dick Cheney.  One person's de-Baathification is ............ wait for it ............ another person's de-Nazification.   However big the Fox News crowd is in Russia, they're the ones who believe that Zelenskyy is a Nazi, I'd guess.

W.'s 75 % Iraq War spike is a better apples to apples fit with Putin's 80 %.  And that can pretty much be explained by nationalism (or even just patriotism) + bullshit = war.   But, again, people like me were not sent to the front or to jail when we loudly disagreed with Cheney and W.  So I question that Putin's approval is really anywhere close to 80 %.

The interesting question, if you could get a real answer, would be how many Russians really think that Zelenskyy is a Nazi.  But you don't have to go that far to be in the 75 %.  You just have to believe we are liberating Iraq because it will end up better for the people who live there.  Excuse me.  I meant liberating Ukraine.  😉

 

[alvnv]

I thought Saddam was an asshole but still strongly opposed Iraq invasion and disapproved Dubya’s policies.

Similarly, Russians don’t have to be Zelenskyy’s fans in order to realize what murderous a maggot they have for a president

[caeron]

 

A large portion of Americans are gullible idiots. Why should Russians be any different?