The do gooders trying to catch pedophiles

[Olddaddy]

I have said this many times before,that I don't like using the word "boys" to describe the guys in Thailand.

Two things come to mind ,first I just finished watching a UK Facebook group of 2 guys and one big fat woman (Karen) catch a alleged old pedophile who thought he was talking to a 16yo boy but it was Karen apparently he was sending his cock pics to,  not a real guy 🙄

So they turn up on his doorstep and film him and then belittle him, "so you like boys do you ,you disgusting old bastard" they said 

Now in reality he was not  doing anything wrong up to the point of...sending his xrated pics I believe.  

Second incident this happened to me personally was I was in Grindr when a guy wanted my cock pics which I don't send as I'm a bottom, to cut a long story short it wasn't really a guy but a Karen who admitted to me she was hunting for pedophiles,she was disappointed when I said my taste was mature Asian guys , 

So I'm telling you this because lately there is a fad of groups and Karen's wanting to catch older guys interested in younger guys whether it's legal or not .

Now I despise pedophiles as much as them BUT  16yo is legal for same sex in Australia which I'm sure it's the same in the UK, but most of these Karen's would brand you a pedophile if you did meet a legal aged guy ,so where do you draw the line with these people?

 

 

 

[Mavica]

Probably the main reason gay tourism to Acapulco (Mexico) (by foreigners) is virtually non-existent is the several large-scale sweeps that saw a couple score gay men falsely arrested, charged and incarcerated in a not-so-nice prison for years before they were released after not being convicted.  I know of one elderly Canadian man from Montreal who committed suicide while incarcerated there, awaiting his trial. 

It's because of those incidents particularly older gays (but young also) stopped visiting Acapulco and switched their Mexican destination to, primarily, Puerto Vallarta.  At the same times, Acapulco police rounded-up young men from out-of-town who were play-for-pay and put them on busses bound for Vallarta ... or Mexico City.  Know, however, that several men were guilty and convicted of having sex with under-aged boys (as young as under-12 years old).  

There is an organization which is or was once centered in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico which traveled throughout Mexico taking videos of allegedly (and actual) gay men talking with teens or a bit older young men in public spaces - and providing the videos to national television and local newspaper outlets with the allegation that the foreigners (and some who were Mexican nationals) were Pedophiles.  When this was going on I visited acquaintances who were incarcerated in the Guerrero state prison on the outskirts of Acapulco, oftentimes they were there for close to a decade before being released ... after their bank accounts were drained by paying bribes tocorrupt prison officials, attorneys and judges.

For Americans who have sex with young men or women when traveling abroad, my understanding is that we are obligated to observe the age of consent in the USA, not that of the country we are traveling to / visiting.  We can be arrested and charged ... under USA law.

p.s.:  When visiting the state prison in Acapulco, I was always solicited by young inmates who wanted to trade sex with me for money.  Reluctantly, I thanked them but declined the opportunity ... out of fear the jail cell would lock behind me and I'd be there for much longer than I'd intended!

[Olddaddy]

These type of "set ups" happen in the Philippines too I believe.

I recall one Pattaya expat ( now deceased LMTU) posting he had been stung in Thailand and had to pay up,no idea of he was guilty or not though 

[Mavica]

26 minutes ago, Olddaddy said:

I recall one Pattaya expat ( now deceased LMTU) posting he had been stung in Thailand and had to pay up,no idea of he was guilty or not though 

There's / was an American who lived in Acapulco who had a taste for children under the age of 12 (much younger).  He'd be seen about town on his motor bike with a child sitting behind and holding on. Many gay men in Acapulco avoided him, out of fear of guilt by association.  He thought he was immune from arrest because, reportedly, one of his parents were connected with (or had influence with) the U.S. Department of State.  This man was tipped-off that he was about to be arrested for his behavior in Mexico and ... as the story goes ... he moved to Pattaya.  All of this occurred 30 years ago.  My understanding is that he's undergone substantial plastic surgery in Thailand with the objective making him look younger than his actual age.

[vinapu]

4 hours ago, Olddaddy said:

I have said this many times before,that I don't like using the word "boys" to describe the guys in Thailand.

..... 

🙄most of these Karen's would brand you a pedophile if you did meet a legal aged guy ,so where do you draw the line with these people

 

 

Bar guys in Thailand  actually describe themselves as "boys" almost universally

As for second part, to avoid problems with Karens, stick to guys whose driving license shows sings of wear and don, t send your cock picks unsolicited to anybody and chances are you will sleep well. 

[PeterRS]

3 hours ago, vinapu said:

As for second part, to avoid problems with Karens, stick to guys whose driving license shows sings of wear and don, t send your cock picks unsolicited to anybody and chances are you will sleep well. 

I sometimes use the word boys in posts and must start changing that habit for I do refer to young men.

As for posting nude photos, I for one cannot find any reason why this should interest or excite anyone. But then I totally avoid social media. As I recently wrote, to me it should be renamed "unsocial media." 

8 hours ago, Olddaddy said:

Two things come to mind ,first I just finished watching a UK Facebook group of 2 guys and one big fat woman (Karen) catch a alleged old pedophile who thought he was talking to a 16yo boy but it was Karen apparently he was sending his cock pics to,  not a real guy . . .

Now I despise pedophiles as much as them BUT  16yo is legal for same sex in Australia which I'm sure it's the same in the UK

Be careful. 16 years is certainy not the universal age of consent. And don't trust what anyone says or anyone posts. Can you ever be certain it is not a troll or someone out to do harm? I still get the occasional spam email allegedly from friends. How do you know that friend on facebook or whatever is really your friend and not someone posting as your friend?

[macaroni21]

18 hours ago, Mavica said:

For Americans who have sex with young men or women when traveling abroad, my understanding is that we are obligated to observe the age of consent in the USA, not that of the country we are traveling to / visiting.  We can be arrested and charged ... under USA law.

I find this hard to believe, though I am no expert on such legal matters. Almost all countries have laws against sexual contact with underaged persons. I don't know of any country that wouldn't apply those laws to any foreigner commiting such transgressions within its boundaries. That means visitors are obliged to observe the host country's laws.

What you may be confusing it with is extra-territorial reach of US laws. Yes, some countries have given their anti pedophilia laws extra-territorial reach, which means your home country laws still apply to you even if you are abroad.

Travellers from such countries are therefore subject to both countries' laws.

Why then have some countries chosen to give extra-territorial reach? One value of doing so is to be able to apprehend pedophiles after they have returned home, especially after short trips abroad. Its easier to prosecute in the home country after receiving evidence from the destination country rather than go through the hoary process of extraditing the accused to the destination country.

So, if the two countries have different ages of consent, the wise thing to do is to observe the higher of the two. If the destination country uses 21 as age of consent, no amount of citing US age of consent will help you when arrested in the destination country.

Bear in mind too that some countries have one age of consent for non commercial sex and a higher age for commercial sex.

 

 

[Mavica]

2 hours ago, macaroni21 said:

I find this hard to believe, though I am no expert on such legal matters. Almost all countries have laws against sexual contact with underaged persons. I don't know of any country that wouldn't apply those laws to any foreigner commiting such transgressions within its boundaries. That means visitors are obliged to observe the host country's laws.

This is what I was referring to:

Quote

Under the Prosecutorial Remedies and Other Tools to End the Exploitation of Children Today Act of 2003 (PROTECT Act), it is a crime, prosecutable in the United States, for a U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident to engage in illicit sexual conduct in a foreign country with a person under the age of 18, whether or not the U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident intended to engage in such illicit sexual conduct prior to going abroad. 

Source:  https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/international-travel/emergencies/arrest-detention/crimes-against-minors.html

[macaroni21]

I was not doubting that the US law that you cited has extra-territorial reach. What I was responding to was your statement that US citizens and permanent residents "are obligated to observe the age of consent in the USA, not that of the country we are traveling to / visiting."  

Suggesting that American visitors do not need to observe the laws of the destination country - just because your home country already has a law on the matter with extra-territorial reach - is not the best advice.

[Olddaddy]

I think it's the country your going to rather than the Country your from.

So I think nearly every State in Australia has same sex consent at minimum 16yo ,so if you come to NSW state for example then you follow the Law of Australia not Texas .

The thing however is the law is strange because whilst you can have consented sex with a 16yo you can't send naked pics to under 18yo

That's where you can be arrested 

[floridarob]

45 minutes ago, Olddaddy said:

so if you come to NSW state for example then you follow the Law of Australia not Texas .

If you went for the sole purpose to have sex with the 16 yr old, the US could and might prosecute if they were aware of it....happened to people that traveled to Cambodia I saw on 60 mins or something a few yrs back.

[Riobard]

Well, they have their work cut out for them. 

[Olddaddy]

1 hour ago, floridarob said:

If you went for the sole purpose to have sex with the 16 yr old, the US could and might prosecute if they were aware of it....happened to people that traveled to Cambodia I saw on 60 mins or something a few yrs back.

If 16yo, then the law in Australia (and I believe same in Thailand) is that consensual sex is allowed but NOT paid sex . 

[floridarob]

3 minutes ago, Olddaddy said:

but NOT paid sex

Many  consider gifts, clothes, dinner....paid sex.

Remember, I'm referring to the Puritanical USA.

 

[Mavica]

3 hours ago, Olddaddy said:

I think it's the country your going to rather than the Country your from. ... So I think nearly every State in Australia has same sex consent at minimum 16yo ,so if you come to NSW state for example then you follow the Law of Australia not Texas.

Yes, local / country laws must be obeyed - that's a given.  However, for Americans or US legal permanent residents, visiting NSW and while there they have sex with a 16 or 17 year old ... even if local laws permit such relationships ... there's the risk of being prosecuted under US federal statutes (not laws of individual states in the US).  As I understand/interpret the US federal statutes, one need not have left the US and made a trip to a foreign destination for the sole purpose of engaging in sex acts with someone under 18 years old ... to avoid possible prosecution.  

There are countries, in addition to the US, that track the foreign travel history of some travelers who are suspected of engaging in sex with underaged persons and/or engaging in the distribution or possession of what's defined as child pornography.  Several individuals I've met are and have been subjected to secondary inspections when arriving back in the US after foreign travel.

[xpaulo]

On 10/22/2022 at 1:18 PM, Olddaddy said:

16yo is legal for same sex in Australia

Yes, people who are using slimy tactics to embarrass others online should be punished. There was a group in the Vancouver area several years ago who would use a woman friend to develop a relationship as a woman with a guy on a chatline.. usually an older teen or twenties, then after a number of sessions tell him she's actually 14 and then try to arrange a meeting. If the guy agreed, he was confronted in a public area by young bullies who videotaped the confrontation and put it up online. They went too far once, entrapping an 18 year old with significant mental disabilities who invited the "girl"  to the ice rink where he worked and was confronted. There was absolutely no indication he had any sexual aims, but was rather just wanting to make a friend. He was fired from his job and shamed in the community. But some in the media took up his cause and I haven't heard of those "outers" since. Although they did entrap a police officer once who clearly wanted to have sex with a 14 year old. He was charged and convicted. And it is depressing that men go online everywhere in Canada trying find young teen girls.

[Olddaddy]

17 hours ago, xpaulo said:

Yes, people who are using slimy tactics to embarrass others online should be punished. There was a group in the Vancouver area several years ago who would use a woman friend to develop a relationship as a woman with a guy on a chatline.. usually an older teen or twenties, then after a number of sessions tell him she's actually 14 and then try to arrange a meeting. If the guy agreed, he was confronted in a public area by young bullies who videotaped the confrontation and put it up online. They went too far once, entrapping an 18 year old with significant mental disabilities who invited the "girl"  to the ice rink where he worked and was confronted. There was absolutely no indication he had any sexual aims, but was rather just wanting to make a friend. He was fired from his job and shamed in the community. But some in the media took up his cause and I haven't heard of those "outers" since. Although they did entrap a police officer once who clearly wanted to have sex with a 14 year old. He was charged and convicted. And it is depressing that men go online everywhere in Canada trying find young teen girls.

16yo is the minimum age here in Australia,well in NSW State anyway not sure of South Australia or Western Australia,so the do gooders need to be aware of that before they entrap people for their YouTube hits 

[maump]

On 10/24/2022 at 12:20 PM, Mavica said:

Yes, local / country laws must be obeyed - that's a given.  However, for Americans or US legal permanent residents, visiting NSW and while there they have sex with a 16 or 17 year old ... even if local laws permit such relationships ... there's the risk of being prosecuted under US federal statutes (not laws of individual states in the US).  As I understand/interpret the US federal statutes, one need not have left the US and made a trip to a foreign destination for the sole purpose of engaging in sex acts with someone under 18 years old ... to avoid possible prosecution.  

 

I can guarantee that the US aggressively monitors and pursues US citizens abroad who knowingly or UNKNOWINGLY have sex with an individual under 18.  even though in that country (and in many US states) the age of consent for sexual relations is less than 18.  Many US states are 16.  (Arizona just recently raised theirs form 13)

[Olddaddy]

6 hours ago, maump said:

I can guarantee that the US aggressively monitors and pursues US citizens abroad who knowingly or UNKNOWINGLY have sex with an individual under 18.  even though in that country (and in many US states) the age of consent for sexual relations is less than 18.  Many US states are 16.  (Arizona just recently raised theirs form 13)

Seems weird Law, so if you come to Sydney for the Gay Mardi Gras as a American citizen  you must make sure the guys are 18?😳even though the Law in Australia is 16?

So you don't get arrested by the police in Australia because it's lawful but when you get back to America you get arrested?

So if you met a bunch of 17yo guys at the Mardi gras night in Australia you can be arrested once you get back to America😳😳

[Vessey]

Two observations if I may please,

I think we can get far too hung-up about the term 'boy', it is universally used in Pattaya to describe the young males who work in bars, clubs etc., in just the same way that 'girl' is universally used to describe female staff/workers.  Even though some of my 'boys' are now approaching 30 years old. At home in England I go out to the pub at night for a 'drink with the boys', I would never say going for a 'drink with the men' - just sounds weird even though most of us are pensioners now haha.

Second is that occasionally a bar or club will have one or perhaps two boys on their staff in the 16-18 age range. They rarely admit that but instead simply insist that they don't 'go' with customers; instead they serve as eye-candy for drinkers in the bar. Caveat Emptor!  Any boy agreeing to go back to your room should have an ID Card or passport that clearly shows their ages. My hotel checks those IDs on arrival.  Its relatively easy to ensure that you play safe in order to stay safe. 😇

[Riobard]

7 hours ago, Olddaddy said:

Seems weird Law, so if you come to Sydney for the Gay Mardi Gras as a American citizen  you must make sure the guys are 18?😳even though the Law in Australia is 16?

So you don't get arrested by the police in Australia because it's lawful but when you get back to America you get arrested?

So if you met a bunch of 17yo guys at the Mardi gras night in Australia you can be arrested once you get back to America😳😳

According to USA extraterritorial jurisdiction, technically yes. The USA bases it on an arbitrary age definition of “child”, under 18, rather than based on age of consent. However, practically speaking, it seems more oriented to acts of prostitution viz minors. In the Mardi Gras example aggressive prosecution regarding 17-year old Australians seems unlikely unless there was evidence that the adult planfully set up a visit there for the express purpose of sex with adolescents 16-17. 

In contrast, Canada’s reach matches it’s own criminal code and age of consent criteria, generally age 16, possibly younger depending on age difference limit, lack of authority role, etc. 

 

[maump]

17 hours ago, Olddaddy said:

Seems weird Law, so if you come to Sydney for the Gay Mardi Gras as a American citizen  you must make sure the guys are 18?😳even though the Law in Australia is 16?

So you don't get arrested by the police in Australia because it's lawful but when you get back to America you get arrested?

So if you met a bunch of 17yo guys at the Mardi gras night in Australia you can be arrested once you get back to America😳😳

USA DHS aggressively monitors all electronic communications of US citizens across national borders.  USA DHS has a program to AI monitor all of GRINDR ROMEO, HORNET, Blued and others.  I have seen multiple indictments with GRINDR communication.  DHS allegedly has a program to pose as underage to entrap USA citizens. 

Under the law you do not have to have an intent, or be knowledgeable that the individual was underage to be prosecuted.  USA DHS AI monitors all of these forums....

If there is any kind of trail, or you are a "person of interest" based on "travel patterns", when you return from Australia, DHS will meet you at the airport and seize your devices.  then your work computer and your home electronics...

"I did not say this.... I am not here."