Cuba approves same sex marriage by a referendum

[Mavica]

18 hours ago, reader said:

 I try to select items that may be of interest to those considering a trip to Thailand or already living there. 

My suggestion is that you not hijack the Beer Bar forum by peppering it with topics specifically related to Thailand, for which there is a dedicated forum where they appropriately belong ... in my opinion.  And, instead of violating copyright regulations by posting the entirety of articles published and protected intellectual property ... simply post a link.  If you have something to say about the topic of an article, comment on the content instead of merely copying and posting.  Otherwise, what's the point? 😁  Thank you.

[vinapu]

11 minutes ago, Mavica said:

My suggestion is that you not hijack the Beer Bar forum by peppering it with topics specifically related to Thailand, for which there is a dedicated forum where they appropriately belong ... in my opinion.

we don't need any wars here.

If one is not interested in topic is very easy to avoid reading  it , not to mention to refrain from  responding to it

[Guest]

1 minute ago, vinapu said:

we don't need any wars here.

fyi - the person you’re responding to is looking for a reaction. Before I blocked him, that’s all it was.  And he’s still at it now.  He’s someone that was here a few years back known for constant negativity. Back again, spreading his contrarian views for attention.  I only see his BS now when someone quotes him. My ignore list is growing 

[Mavica]

20 minutes ago, vinapu said:

we don't need any wars here.

No "wars", just a personal opinion ... which each of us is entitled to express - within the guidelines established by the website owner / administrator / moderator.  Like opinions, or not.  😁 The opinion I've expressed, by the way, is mild in comparison to the personal attacks and/or trolling taking place in this discussion thread.  Maybe you've already spoken-out about that matter and I've missed mention of it.

[Mavica]

1 hour ago, Slvkguy said:

fyi - the person you’re responding to is looking for a reaction. Before I blocked him, that’s all it was.  And he’s still at it now.  He’s someone that was here a few years back known for constant negativity. Back again, spreading his contrarian views for attention.  I only see his BS now when someone quotes him. My ignore list is growing 

I've refrained from commenting on or responding to your hyper-active stalking and trolling of me on these forums, until now.  Your behavior, including the repeated Ad hominem attacks on me clearly appear to violate the terms of your, mine and everyone else's participation on these forums.  You have gotten away with your bad behavior for a log time. 

Quote

It is based on straightforward mature behavior, civility and courtesy that you find in a neighborhood Pub or Tavern where neighbors and acquaintances joined by occasional strangers come together to socialize in good temper, to share conversation, and to hoist, in moderation, a glass of favorite beer or wine or a cup of coffee or tea. ... These forums are NOT presented for abusive arguing and name calling, score-settling, thread stalking, or general cyberspace blood sport for the chronically bored.

The site administrator / moderator likely has access to the history you claim I have here on this website.  "A few years back"?  Really? You are a liar.  Repeating lies doesn't mean the lies are truth, factual.  

I invite readers to click on my Profile and follow the links to comments I've posted.  The truth will set you free!

My impression of your participation on the forums here is that you are hungry for positive responses. "Contrarian"  viewpoints are a mainstay of social media, web forums.  After all, these are discussions and few of us will share exactly the same viewpoints.  Does a "contrarian viewpoint" equate to the maker of such views "disruptive"?  Sometimes, yes.  However, contrary viewpoints aren't necessarily malicious, they offer additional content which can and does provoke expanded discussion by participants.  We learn from comments of others, even when we disagree with what they / we may have written. 

You post here solely to personally attack me, without adding anything meaningful to the discussion.  Why?

You falsely assert I post "constant negativity".  Please back that up with facts.  Site those instances since I've registered at this forum, participating for the first time by the way ... ever.  Do that, or sit down and shut up.  Better yet, apologize.  When someone doesn't agree with a particular posting / comment of yours you get in a hissy fit.  "Troll!" you exclaim.  It obviously bothers you that not everyone agrees with you - or that there are a variance of opinions on a discussion topic.  Yet, your responses are troll-like.  Has that fact escaped you?  Maybe not.  Maybe the best "defense' is a good "offense".  Are your own postings, your trip reports truthful?  Maybe others can vouch for you, I don't know.  Fantasy postings?  I hope not.

You obviously (to me) have your nylons in a knot because I've clicked on a down arrow at times when you've said things I disagree with.  Well, this may come as news to you ... rather than post a written response, readers are given the opportunity (by the site owner / administrator) for us to simply click on an emoji to express our opinion / sentiment.  It's an action almost everyone here undertakes.  A simple check of how I personally use the emoji's will reveal I generously / appreciatively compliment more, substantially more comments than I disagree with;  probably 95+% positive responses to what others have said.  And you?  I don't see you complimenting others very often; maybe I'm missing them.

If someone here has access to the archives of the Gay Brazil website they will see my contributory postings pertaining to Rio de Janeiro, under the same screen name - Mavica.  I've never been called a troll or disruptive.  If someone here has access to the Cruising for Sex website, you can search the older Mexico discussion forums for my screen name ... which is what I use here and have only used on gay-themed forums for 20+ years.  Although it was at a time when screen names and log-in was not required, I was an active participant at the Dreaded Ned's Thailand forum.

Don't like me, don't like my comments? Fine. Get over it.  Learn to live your own life instead of preaching how other should live theirs.

[floridarob]

3 hours ago, PeterRS said:

And he still will not justify the crippling US sanctions on Cuba

If you go to Cuba, you will see Coca Cola from Mexico, School busses from Canada, rice Makers from China, groceries from Indiana, Dell computers from USA, All types of cell phones....although no Bacardi (except when I bring my own).

My point is, the sanctions are a great excuse for the Cuban government to blame everything on, when it has very little to do with what ails them.

Western Union transfers send how many gazillions of dollars there.......Crippling sanctions is part of the Cuban propaganda machine, just like their claims to best hospitals and 99% literation 🙄

 

[Mavica]

The US sanctions against Cuba don't make sense, to probably a majority of USA residents.  Pandering to Cuban-American voters is wrongful, IMO.  I say, "send them back to Cuba".   Let's not forget, though, that Fidel contributed to the slaughter (reportedly) of more than 100,000 Cubans, including key supporters of his. It will take a GOP Presidential administration to change policy, and that won't happen any time soon.

[vinapu]

6 hours ago, Mavica said:

Let's not forget, though, that Fidel contributed to the slaughter........

and so did Somosas , Truillos and others "SOB but our SOB" in memorable quote which somehow did not trigger any sanctions , quite opposite.

[Latbear4blk]

20 hours ago, floridarob said:

If you go to Cuba, you will see Coca Cola from Mexico, School busses from Canada, rice Makers from China, groceries from Indiana, Dell computers from USA, All types of cell phones....although no Bacardi (except when I bring my own).

My point is, the sanctions are a great excuse for the Cuban government to blame everything on, when it has very little to do with what ails them.

Western Union transfers send how many gazillions of dollars there.......Crippling sanctions is part of the Cuban propaganda machine, just like their claims to best hospitals and 99% literation 🙄

 

I disagree. However, you are making a strong point against the sanctions. If they are economically ineffective and instead  provide the Revolution with a propaganda tool, why to keep them? 

[floridarob]

31 minutes ago, Latbear4blk said:

I disagree. However, you are making a strong point against the sanctions. If they are economically ineffective and instead  provide the Revolution with a propaganda tool, why to keep them? 

Trump did it to appease Putin, prior to that it was the dying breed of Cubans that wanted it that way....the new generation doesn't give a f*ck.....

[PeterRS]

21 hours ago, Mavica said:

Let's not forget, though, that Fidel contributed to the slaughter (reportedly) of more than 100,000 Cubans, including key supporters of his.

I think your fact is very wrong. According to an article in the Wall Street Journal the Castro regime was responsible for 10,723 deaths from 1952 up to 2016.

The dreadfully corrupt and in league organised crime President Batista's dictatorship having turned Cuba into a police state massacred more than 20,000 in 7 years. Many were first tortured in the most ghastly way imaginable. 

This is how TIME reported the American Bay of Pigs disaster at the time.

"In the United Nations, U.S. Ambassador Adlai Stevenson labored to explain to the world what was already self-evident: that the U.S. considered Castro a clear threat to hemisphere security and encouraged the Cuban exiles in their attempt to bring him down. Speaking with unusual intensity, Stevenson sought to accent the positive, reassuring Latin America in particular that the U.S. had no intention of reviving Yankee imperialism, but was acting in the interests of freedom after extreme, prolonged, unceasing provocation."

So Batista's police state dictatorship represented "freedom". Just like Marcos murdering dictatorship in The Philippines, I expect.

https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/counting-victims-of-the-castro-regime-nearly-11000-to-date/

http://content.time.com/time/subscriber/article/0,33009,897732-3,00.html

[PeterRS]

1 hour ago, Latbear4blk said:

you are making a strong point against the sanctions. If they are economically ineffective and instead  provide the Revolution with a propaganda tool, why to keep them? 

You echo the sentiments of the 17th century French statesman Jean Baptiste Colbert. He wrote

"If you enact a law and do not enforce it, you are condoning what you condemn."

[Latbear4blk]

7 hours ago, PeterRS said:

You echo the sentiments of the 17th century French statesman Jean Baptiste Colbert. He wrote

"If you enact a law and do not enforce it, you are condoning what you condemn."

Not really, I am just making a deduction from @floridarob's opinion.

I do think the blockage is enforced and have dire consequences on Cuba's economy, and I do think that the world has much to work from Cuba's education and health systems. Finding American sodas in the island does not mean the sanctions are not working.

[Guest]

the interesting thing to me is a comparison between Cuba, Puerto Rico and Dominican Republic - and which one is better off: 3 similar islands & people with very different political histories.  The Cubans do seem best educated and all get the most basic healthcare, although pervasive poverty & hunger. Puerto Rico totally screwed by US law and constant flow of people leaving the island - it’s never going to change.  DR appears to control their own destiny - but do they really, or just another US pawn in the Caribbean with lots of poverty and an uneducated population ??  If Cuba could rid itself of the Communist regime or truly moderate it, I’d say they have the most upside If somehow could avoid the corruption that comes with rapid redevelopment and US influence.

The blockade is an old strategy and just harms the Cuban people. Haven’t they been through enough ?  

[PeterRS]

Finding a way round sanctions is not unusual. 4 years ago I spent a quite lovely 2 weeks in Iran. The country is stunningly beautiful and the people are so warm and generous. At that time Coca Cola was imported from Malaysia and lots of other allegedly banned goods imported from places like Dubai. Although I was from a country which imposes severe sanctions on the Iranian people, not one person was anything less than extremely hospitable. One morning I was so coffeed out from the free cups offered to me I simply had to start declining future offers.

Most Iranians were perfectly happy to chat with me. The one thing I realised is that they have no real anger towards the west. But they all loathed the regime. They knew it was massively corrupt, even down to the Supreme Leader pocketing around $13 million in illegal gains daily. That many are now back on the streets in massive demonstrations against the regime is surely one mark of that loathing. I hope so much that this time they are successful and can start living more normal lives.

Iran has a quite extraordinary history. Its people are extremely cultured and poetry is adored by most. Seeing the crowds reading poetry at the mausoleum in Shiraz to one of its most famous poets, Hafez, was very moving. It also has a rich cultural history in the arts, music and especially architecture. The huge main square in Esfahan is one of the most extraordinarily beautiful anywhere in the world.

[floridarob]

3 hours ago, Latbear4blk said:

Not really, I am just making a deduction from @floridarob's opinion.

I do think the blockage is enforced and have dire consequences on Cuba's economy, and I do think that the world has much to work from Cuba's education and health systems. Finding American sodas in the island does not mean the sanctions are not working.

I disagree...it's all show. I've been going for 25 yrs, my Cuban "Grandmother" keeps in touch with me regularly on whatsapp on what's going on....lot's of real life history lessons from her.

Go to a hospital when you are there....it's like their cars, 1950's barley being held together. As far as literacy, visit the eastern provinces, seems like the people with the least, supported Fidel the most (Red states?). No running water indoors, dirt floors, yet believed in Fidel. What other choice is there, only state run TV there. Havana is a different story.....

To a casual observer, your opinion may be shared, because that's the one that get's the most traction, is like gossip 😉

[Guest]

most governments are corrupt syndicates, regardless of their stated ideology- which includes the US, UK and most western democracies. They are built to protect the political elites, connected & wealthy. May have been different in the US pre-Reagan, but it’s exactly where we are now.  And, it goes on until the people reach a breaking point and organize against repression and/or economic inequality, bringing Revolution and a new set of political elites & their cronies.  Purge & repeat.  

38 minutes ago, floridarob said:

seems like the people with the least, supported Fidel the most (Red states?).

sounds familiar 

[vinapu]

3 hours ago, PeterRS said:

Finding a way round sanctions is not unusual. 4 years ago I spent a quite lovely 2 weeks in Iran. The country is stunningly beautiful and the people are so warm and generous.... not one person was anything less than extremely hospitable.

Most Iranians were perfectly happy to chat with me. The one thing I realised is that they have no real anger towards the west....

Iran has a quite extraordinary history. Its people are extremely cultured and poetry is adored by most. Seeing the crowds reading poetry at the mausoleum in Shiraz to one of its most famous poets, Hafez, was very moving. It also has a rich cultural history in the arts, music and especially architecture. The huge main square in Esfahan is one of the most extraordinarily beautiful anywhere in the world.

your observation are the same like mine. I'd add country is also very affordable for travelers.

And those concerned with not being able to drink while there please lake consolation in fact that on my first evening , in Shiraz,  I was offered moonshine quite a few times despite crowds on the main drag. 

 

 

[vinapu]

4 hours ago, Slvkguy said:

the interesting thing to me is a comparison between Cuba, Puerto Rico and Dominican Republic

it reminds me what I heard from one teacher when there " we are not only comparing ourselves to USA , we also look at Haiti, both neighbors next door "

1 hour ago, floridarob said:

Go to a hospital when you are there...

One of my closest friend broke his leg while cycling in western province Pinar del Rio in spring 2019 and was taken to some provincial hospital there. He was charged for care , cast was very basic but to this day he marvels how good job they did. 

to this day he says jokingly . ' if you have to break your leg, only in Cuba"

[Guest]

Let’s not forget that the United States - the wealthiest country in the world had the worst outcome re: Covid. Completely & totally unprepared even though the exact scenario had been predicted and gamed out.  And in the US, the average life expectancy is declining in contrast to almost everywhere else.  
I’d take European style healthcare any day over the mess we have here. The wealthy have the very best of course, and at the same time people are dying bc they can’t afford basic medication.  Something is very wrong and the root cause is special interest money in politics aka corruption.

the Cuban healthcare system may very well be a myth - but they now live longer than the average American.  That says something 

[PeterRS]

1 hour ago, vinapu said:

And those concerned with not being able to drink while there please lake consolation in fact that on my first evening , in Shiraz,  I was offered moonshine quite a few times despite crowds on the main drag. 

So true. I had an excellent guide who lived for part of each year in Dubai. His parents lived in Shiraz and for each of my four days in that city, he brought me a small fruit juice bottle of passable Shiraz wine made by his father. His only request was that I wash the bottles thoroughly before putting them in the hotel trash bin!

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Slvkguy said:

the Cuban healthcare system may very well be a myth - but they now live longer than the average American.  That says something 

for the uneducated among us - see data from Worldbank.org  Always amazed at supposedly well traveled people who are so ignorant and blinded by American propaganda.  Link is attached to get data on any country 

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.LE00.IN
 

 

[reader]

Never too late to immigrate. 

Just follow Hemingway’s advice and take a “Slow boat to Cuba.”

 

[floridarob]

I could tell you all day long that I have a 9" penis.....if if you have no way to confirm it, people might start to believe it....consider the source.
 

From worldbank data:

Much of the data comes from the statistical systems of member countries, and the quality of global data depends on how well these national systems perform.

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, floridarob said:

Much of the data comes from the statistical systems of member countries, and the quality of global data depends on how well these national systems perform

this is true - but, one thing about former Soviet sphere communist countries….there is so much bureaucracy & redundancy, that their data is surprising accurate. They don’t have enough competent coordination to fake it. A country like Venezuela or North Korea totally different.

The fine points can be debated, but the main point is the US life especially is declining as compared to almost everywhere else. The US is a nation in decline. We have cities where people cannot drink or shower with the tap water.  Not exactly first world stuff.  The roads, airports, bridges & tunnels are falling apart bc nobody wants to pay taxes. 

I spent the entire summer in Europe and the load of crap we are literally sold about America and American Exceptionalism is all bullshit.  People are generally happier & healthier by all measures. The airports are nice, the roads are maintained and the high speed rail is world class.  There’s no comparison unless you’re just not paying attention.