(Warning: a bit sad) Has this happened to you?

[vinapu]

3 hours ago, kokopelli3 said:

... but still regret that I did not help him in his time of need.

Just very recently, read yesterday I offered help to  a known guy in severe financial need by promised to hire for 4 days at above market rate. My reward - his entire time  with me was spent on his phone playing loud music out of it , even in bed and even at 4 a.m.

So deal was  cut short , surprise, by him citing my unreasonable demands like stop checking Facebook every 27 seconds.

In country I was raided there,s saying "if you help yourself,  God helps you too " , how true !

[Phoenixblue]

Would things have been different had you and the person you liked had been in a stable committed relationship? Perhaps it might have made any difference? I know that feeling lonely and isolated can be detrimental to mental health ?🤔

[Phoenixblue]

6 hours ago, vinapu said:

In country I was raided there,s saying "if you help yourself,  God helps you too " , how true !

And God helps those who help themselves 😔

 

[Phoenixblue]

23 hours ago, Mavica said:

Not in Thailand, but other place in my life I've had friends and sex partners who died.  Several died by suicide, some by illness ... most died in the USA of HIV/AIDS in the 89's and 90's.  Actually, I lost count of the number of my sex partners and acquaintances who died of HIV/AIDS; scores.  With each loss there are mostly fond memories, but always there's sorrow.

That is the haunting part; the memories remain. I find it helpful to light a candle and incense stick to remember those who passed away.

[PeterRS]

On 11/4/2022 at 4:42 AM, Mavica said:

Not in Thailand, but other place in my life I've had friends and sex partners who died.  Several died by suicide, some by illness ... most died in the USA of HIV/AIDS in the 89's and 90's.  Actually, I lost count of the number of my sex partners and acquaintances who died of HIV/AIDS; scores.  With each loss there are mostly fond memories, but always there's sorrow.

I lost two lovers as a result of AIDS. I had been madly in love with the first, a Japanese, and we had talked about living together. But because we were then living almost 1,800 miles apart, even though we were meeting almost every month and took holidays together, I suppose it was inevitable that he would meet someone else. In my early 30s, I could not understand how any young Japanese (he was 25) could possibly leave me for a man more than double his age - he was 52(!) I did learn later he wanted stability and eventually to start a business. His new partner gave him both. He did write to me to say what had happened and how sorry he was that he had hurt me. At the time it was no consolation.

Although it took me many months to get over the anger and to a certain extent the betrayal I felt, I eventually realised it was as much my fault. It was the early 1980s was I still quite new to Asia and certainly to Japan. A few years later he called me and asked if we could meet again. He wanted my help re part of his little business. We had a joyful reunion dinner and became good friends. FIve years after we had split up, when having tea he told me he had been feeling well. He and his bf were leaving for a long summer in London when he would seek treatment if he did not get better. Two months later, I got a call from his partner whom I had never even spoken to before. My first lover had died of AIDS. I flew over for the funeral.

Looking back, it seems odd that I had no worries about being infected. Perhaps I was in denial with HIV/AIDS being a death sentence. We had never used condoms, but then when we were together we knew very little about HIV. Thereafter I always used them.

In the early 1990s I met a tall Thai student in, of all places, Babylon. Having had part of his education in Australia, he spoke fluent English with a slight Ozzie accent. Over the next year or so we were to meet frequently, each time becoming more besotted with each other. I even seriously thought of moving to Bangkok just to be with him. But he wanted to leave Bangkok as he felt too confined here after the freedom he'd enjoyed in Sydney. He was desperate to live with me in Hong Kong. I knew - and told him many times - that he and we would face many obstacles there, far more than in Thailand. He could not continue his studies, without an HK ID card he would be unable to find a decent job - and so on. But he was adamant. Stupidly I gave in.

Although we did lots of things together and I loved having him live with me, it was obvious he was beginning to regret his decision. Just before Christmas we went to Australia for 10 days as I had a couple of days business. With frequent absences from our hotel, I knew he'd been meeting old friends and perhaps returning to some of his old gay haunts. After quite a bitter argument one evening, he told me he would not come back to Hong Kong. He planned to stay with an old flame in Sydney. And that is what he did. This time I realised I had made the wrong decision and for months I regretted it. What I should have been aware of was that the freedom he had enjoyed before I met him in Babylon had included quite a bit of unprotected sex. After he became sick, he returned to his Kanchanaburi home where died of AIDS two years later.

But again i did not get myself tested. Finally on a trip to Phuket with friends, I went to a clinic and after three days learned I was negative. Yet despite all the bad feelings, I was later to put these totally behind me and as @Mavica pointed out earlier, just remember all the wonderful times we had enjoyed. Despite the sorrow at relationships coming to an abrupt end and of young lives being cut far too short, I am surprised that these memories do not fade.

[Boy69]

22 hours ago, vinapu said:

Just very recently, read yesterday I offered help to  a known guy in severe financial need by promised to hire for 4 days at above market rate. My reward - his entire time  with me was spent on his phone playing loud music out of it , even in bed and even at 4 a.m.

So deal was  cut short , surprise, by him citing my unreasonable demands like stop checking Facebook every 27 seconds.

In country I was raided there,s saying "if you help yourself,  God helps you too " , how true !

Unfortunately some boys interpreted our kindness as weakness which they can take advantage to screw us or to show disdain. 

[PeterRS]

Individuals dying as a result of drugs, crashing their motorcys after driving drunk and too fast, even by suicide is very difficult for others to control. Even those who see the signs of alcohol, drug, gambling and other addictions find it all but impossible to help. The individual has to want help - and in too many cases deep down they don't. For most, there is some deep rooted mental issue. Thankfully, for those who do want treatment, there are many more facilities now than there used to be.

At university, I knew a beautiful felllow student. Her beauty was almost luminous. She was very slim and none of us were aware at the time that she suffered from bulimia. She never talked about it. Given that this was many decades ago, few actually knew much about it, not even the medical profession. She obviously was aware there was something wrong with her. Whether she did anything to obtain treatment, none of us ever found out. Had she done so, it is highly unlikely she would have been offered any sensible and practical advice. One day, she threw herself in front of a lorry in the middle of the city. She survived and was sent to a hospital for the mentally ill. For whatever reason, she was placed in a ward on the second floor. A few weeks after being admitted, she threw herself out of the window. This time she succeeded in her desire to die.

The lorry driver, a man in his early 50s with a wife and family, was less lucky. He suffered a heart attack after knocking the girl down.  He died a few days later. 

[Phoenixblue]

The way I see it is that life is too short to live without love, sounds cheesy but over the years I have come to realize the importance of having somebody in your life to relate to. Every year I promise to settle down but life gets in the way. Is it worth investing in love when sex is readily available?  even if it's a brief gratification which requires taking antivirals and antibodies so you won't feel afraid of contracting something. To think Covid is scary when your memory goes back to the plague that started in the 80s.... Be well everybody 🙏🌹

[Phoenixblue]

17 hours ago, PeterRS said:

I lost two lovers as a result of AIDS. I had been madly in love with the first, a Japanese, and we had talked about living together. But because we were then living almost 1,800 miles apart, even though we were meeting almost every month and took holidays together, I suppose it was inevitable that he would meet someone else. In my early 30s, I could not understand how any young Japanese (he was 25) could possibly leave me for a man more than double his age - he was 52(!) I did learn later he wanted stability and eventually to start a business. His new partner gave him both. He did write to me to say what had happened and how sorry he was that he had hurt me. At the time it was no consolation.

Although it took me many months to get over the anger and to a certain extent the betrayal I felt, I eventually realised it was as much my fault. It was the early 1980s was I still quite new to Asia and certainly to Japan. A few years later he called me and asked if we could meet again. He wanted my help re part of his little business. We had a joyful reunion dinner and became good friends. FIve years after we had split up, when having tea he told me he had been feeling well. He and his bf were leaving for a long summer in London when he would seek treatment if he did not get better. Two months later, I got a call from his partner whom I had never even spoken to before. My first lover had died of AIDS. I flew over for the funeral.

Looking back, it seems odd that I had no worries about being infected. Perhaps I was in denial with HIV/AIDS being a death sentence. We had never used condoms, but then when we were together we knew very little about HIV. Thereafter I always used them.

In the early 1990s I met a tall Thai student in, of all places, Babylon. Having had part of his education in Australia, he spoke fluent English with a slight Ozzie accent. Over the next year or so we were to meet frequently, each time becoming more besotted with each other. I even seriously thought of moving to Bangkok just to be with him. But he wanted to leave Bangkok as he felt too confined here after the freedom he'd enjoyed in Sydney. He was desperate to live with me in Hong Kong. I knew - and told him many times - that he and we would face many obstacles there, far more than in Thailand. He could not continue his studies, without an HK ID card he would be unable to find a decent job - and so on. But he was adamant. Stupidly I gave in.

Although we did lots of things together and I loved having him live with me, it was obvious he was beginning to regret his decision. Just before Christmas we went to Australia for 10 days as I had a couple of days business. With frequent absences from our hotel, I knew he'd been meeting old friends and perhaps returning to some of his old gay haunts. After quite a bitter argument one evening, he told me he would not come back to Hong Kong. He planned to stay with an old flame in Sydney. And that is what he did. This time I realised I had made the wrong decision and for months I regretted it. What I should have been aware of was that the freedom he had enjoyed before I met him in Babylon had included quite a bit of unprotected sex. After he became sick, he returned to his Kanchanaburi home where died of AIDS two years later.

But again i did not get myself tested. Finally on a trip to Phuket with friends, I went to a clinic and after three days learned I was negative. Yet despite all the bad feelings, I was later to put these totally behind me and as @Mavica pointed out earlier, just remember all the wonderful times we had enjoyed. Despite the sorrow at relationships coming to an abrupt end and of young lives being cut far too short, I am surprised that these memories do not fade.

I am very sorry for your loss. Be well and take care 🌹

[Phoenixblue]

6 hours ago, PeterRS said:

Individuals dying as a result of drugs, crashing their motorcys after driving drunk and too fast, even by suicide is very difficult for others to control. Even those who see the signs of alcohol, drug, gambling and other addictions find it all but impossible to help. The individual has to want help - and in too many cases deep down they don't. For most, there is some deep rooted mental issue. Thankfully, for those who do want treatment, there are many more facilities now than there used to be.

 

All it takes is some kind words and empathy. Being their for others, even if it be by moral support, makes all the difference. Maybe others need to feel you care about them.

[PeterRS]

7 hours ago, Phoenixblue said:

I am very sorry for your loss. Be well and take care 🌹

That is very kind, thank you.

7 hours ago, Phoenixblue said:

All it takes is some kind words and empathy. Being their for others, even if it be by moral support, makes all the difference. Maybe others need to feel you care about them.

Would that were so. Sadly words are mere words and if someone really does not want to hear them, nothing will change their behaviour. An addict is an addict. Equally sadly most will not accept this is so. Almost all, I am told, believe they can control their addiction when in fact it is the addiction that controls them. The death last night of 34 year old rapper Aaron Carter is just another example. He was such a cute singer/actor in his late teens/20s but he had been treated several times for a variety of addictions. His  family had begged him to change and he always promised he would. But his demons would not allow it.

Some of us will remember Andy Gibb, the wonderfully cute singing sensation brother of the Bee Gees. Although he died in 1988 aged 30 of a heart infection, we know this was a result of years of drug and alcohol abuse. Again, the demons felt nothing for the moral support. 

7 hours ago, Phoenixblue said:

The way I see it is that life is too short to live without love, sounds cheesy but over the years I have come to realize the importance of having somebody in your life to relate to. Every year I promise to settle down but life gets in the way. Is it worth investing in love when sex is readily available?

I understand your thoughts and there have been times I have agreed with you. I have alternated between period of being in love and being the butterfly. I loved both, even though breakups from someone you truly love can be so hard. The important point is that sex is not love. It is more like a momentary high. But sex not an either/or. Not sure of your age, but I have found that age changed my views more in favour of having someone in my life.

[vinapu]

9 hours ago, Phoenixblue said:

All it takes is some kind words and empathy. Being their for others, even if it be by moral support, makes all the difference. Maybe others need to feel you care about them.

If only it was that simple as Peter elaborated above. 

[Phoenixblue]

21 hours ago, PeterRS said:

 

Would that were so. Sadly words are mere words and if someone really does not want to hear them, nothing will change their behaviour. An addict is an addict. Equally sadly most will not accept this is so. Almost all, I am told, believe they can control their addiction when in fact it is the addiction that controls them.

Addiction is an medical condition and as such requires professional mental and physical therapy intervention. In this case moral support has an auxiliary effect but still is relevant. It is sad when young people's lives are cut short but there is only so much a person can do to help but to know that you played a part, however small, to alleviate their suffering males it that much more worthwhile. There are rehab centers that you can help your loved ones tackle their addictive impulses if you want to go all the way and being there for them. Most importantly it is the isolation that drives addiction, the demons of desolation. If it was my loved one's life on the line I will do all that it takes and I will sure as hell won't let them demons win 🌹 

[Phoenixblue]

21 hours ago, PeterRS said:

I understand your thoughts and there have been times I have agreed with you. I have alternated between period of being in love and being the butterfly. I loved both, even though breakups from someone you truly love can be so hard. The important point is that sex is not love. It is more like a momentary high. But sex not an either/or. Not sure of your age, but I have found that age changed my views more in favour of having someone in my life.

I agree 100% with what you wrote. Sex is not love and sex is not a substitute for love. I think of Sex in terms of an addiction, I get the fix and get the high and then move on.. that's it, nothing substantial. Sex can be awesome and wonderful and all that yes and that is why we have it and travel across the world to have it but it cannot be a substitute for companionship, only love can be. To be honest I crave companionship and I feel that much more happier if I had it in my life. I'm 51. I feel that time is running out to find a mate, something that I really want. So I will travel east and west, spend money in foreign lands to have sex with strangers and come back the same way I started.

This is a topic that I think alot about and I hope that my incoherent thoughts made justice to what I am trying to convey I hope you all find love and companionship and a happy and fulfilling life 🙏🌹

[Phoenixblue]

19 hours ago, vinapu said:

If only it was that simple as Peter elaborated above. 

Life is a balance of simplicity and complexity and the way to be happy is to strike the right balance. I like Thailand because, in my opinion, it is relatively simple, more relaxed and easy going. Best wishes 🌹

[PeterRS]

1 hour ago, Phoenixblue said:

To be honest I crave companionship and I feel that much more happier if I had it in my life. I'm 51. I feel that time is running out to find a mate, something that I really want. So I will travel east and west, spend money in foreign lands to have sex with strangers and come back the same way I started.

Please take it from me that at 51 you have tons of time to find one or more relationships. I have had two serious long-term relationships since i was that age. Naturally people define long term differently. In my case I put the minimum time down as 5 years. Others will certainly be considerably longer. I have friends who just celebrated 50 years together and others 35 years. Neither started with sex. The former started through a work engagement; the latter through a friend's introduction. 

I see no reason why a search for a partner and short term sexcapades cannot co-exist until a partner is found. I just happen to believe that short term sex is highly unlikely - though not impossible - to result in a long-term partnership. Since you crave companionship. is it not much more likely that you will find it nearer your own home? A long distance relationship, as I have written elswhere, can be fraught with difficulties and fears.

My only other suggestion is that companionship means being with your partner very regularly. It also requires a considerable amount of give and take, and the older one gets and the more set in ones ways, the more difficult that can sometimes become.

[Londoner]

Yes indeed. I was fifty-five when I met P. Looking back, I think I was ready then, after nine years of trawling the bars- very happily, I have to say- I needed something different. Nevertheless,  I was certainly not looking for a LTR; I was happy with being a butterfly. 

It just happened.

Phoenixblue's comment struck a chord. One of my oldest friends, sadly now deceased, was an Evangelical Christian with very conservative views on "Biblical Christianity." We never discussed sex. However, a few years after I'd met P, I decided that I wasn't going to conceal from anybody that I now had a partner, even him, and showed him a video which a friend had made of P and me sitting in his room.

I wondered what the reaction would be. "We all need love, " he said , "and must take it where we can find it." I was surprised and gratified and looked at him with new eyes.

He died single.

[Olddaddy]

On 11/6/2022 at 7:11 AM, Phoenixblue said:

All it takes is some kind words and empathy. Being their for others, even if it be by moral support, makes all the difference. Maybe others need to feel you care about them.

I don't think there's anything wrong with gamble unless it's sending you broke 

I enjoy playing the poker /slot machines at my local gay pub 

I even bet online just put $500 on mehmat Oz to win Pensacola 

[kokopelli3]

6 hours ago, Olddaddy said:

I don't think there's anything wrong with gamble unless it's sending you broke 

I enjoy playing the poker /slot machines at my local gay pub 

I even bet online just put $500 on mehmat Oz to win Pensacola 

You lose if betting on Dr. Oz to win Pensacola.

[Olddaddy]

2 hours ago, kokopelli3 said:

You lose if betting on Dr. Oz to win Pensacola.

I think he will beat the other guy ,I don't know I'm in Australia but he seems popular , 

 

 

[kokopelli3]

1 hour ago, Olddaddy said:

I think he will beat the other guy ,I don't know I'm in Australia but he seems popular , 

 

1 hour ago, Olddaddy said:

 

 

Dr. Oz is running in a race in the state of Pennsylvania, not in Pensacola,Florida, which is why you would lose the bet.  555  Otherwise the race is somewhat of a toss up.

[floridarob]

On 11/8/2022 at 3:05 AM, kokopelli3 said:

Otherwise the race is somewhat of a toss up.

Not anymore, thank goodness, Oz can stay in NJ now, no worries moving to Pa.

[kokopelli3]

Yes, Mr. Fetterman did win against  the pretender, Dr. Oz.

I do apologize as this discussion has gotten off the original topic.

[vinapu]

3 minutes ago, kokopelli3 said:

Yes, Mr. Fetterman did win against  the pretender, Dr. Oz.

What bar they are from ? 

[kokopelli3]

Mr. Fetterman is the Lieutenant Governor of the State of Pennsylvania; Dr. Oz is a medical doctor and a TV personality and a resident of the State of New Jersey. Not sure which bars they frequent, if any.