(Warning: a bit sad) Has this happened to you?

[flashbarryallen]

During my trip to BKK in June/July, I went to a host bar called Changsha Chill. I threw a private party with a bunch of guys there.

The owner was nice enough to have one of the guys pick me up from my hotel. Granted he was late, but he was handsome and charming, so I didn't let it bother me too much.

At the party, he was having a good time as we all were, though some of the guys felt a bit awkward being in their underwear, including the driver guy. Thankfully alcohol made everyone a lot more comfortable as the night went on.

The next day, I reached out to the guy who picked me up and asked if he would be up for meeting at my hotel. I had actually read about him in this forum and wanted to experience what I read for myself.

When he arrived, the best way I could describe him was tweaked out, as if he had been using drugs. I'm not around people who use drugs much, so I couldn't tell for sure, but I knew something wasn't right with the guy. It could also have just been intense nervous energy. Unfortunately the encounter didn't go great, but he was kind the whole time and I honestly just liked his company as he had lived in Australia and had a high level of English. I never talked to him after the encounter.

Fast forward to just a few minutes ago, and I found out on the bar's Twitter that he has passed away. I don't know why I feel so sad about it because I know he wasn't a good friend of mine or anything, but I thought I could at least share here in case anyone has ever experienced something like this. I don't really have anyone IRL that I could talk to about this.

I wish I would have given him a big hug when he left my hotel that day or that we had just talked more. 

 

[floridarob]

In Thailand I know a few that have died. One recently that used to message me occasionally and I knew he was the suicidal type, and that's how he died. I'm sad, but not surprised.

In life, drugs have taken many friends as well as suicide. Some had warning signs....some, no idea what was going on in their head. Before I couldn't fathom how someone could kill themselves....these days, I kind of understand. It's not something that someone wakes up one day and suddenly decides to do it.....it's demos they've dealt with or something they have thought about for some time.

I see friends that I've known since childhood, but don't recognize them because of the drugs they've been doing, it's very sad. I feel fortunate that I never fell into doing drugs....other vices are enough without having drugs involved.

Everyone is responsible for their own path they take, drugs is an escape for some...and most don't realize that that escape could become permanent.

I try to lecture, without lecturing when I run into a drug user, whether they are using at the moment or not. Usually falls on deaf ears....sadly.

[reader]

Although I'm not aware that anyone I met in Thailand has taken their own life, a good friend I worked with for many years did. We stopped for a beer after work one night and he told me he was on the verge of divorce. He was visibly shaken. I just tried to listen and say what I thought was reassuring. I still recall standing outside the bar, thinking about embracing him before we parted. But I didn't. Five days later he was found dead from self-inflicted wounds.

As I look back on it I realize that I should have followed  my gut instinct and hugged him. I'm not saying that if I did he wouldn't have killed himself. What I am saying is that I still ask myself why I didn't.

It is--as some have said--what we don't do that can haunt us the most.

[Olddaddy]

4 hours ago, flashbarryallen said:

During my trip to BKK in June/July, I went to a host bar called Changsha Chill. I threw a private party with a bunch of guys there.

The owner was nice enough to have one of the guys pick me up from my hotel. Granted he was late, but he was handsome and charming, so I didn't let it bother me too much.

At the party, he was having a good time as we all were, though some of the guys felt a bit awkward being in their underwear, including the driver guy. Thankfully alcohol made everyone a lot more comfortable as the night went on.

The next day, I reached out to the guy who picked me up and asked if he would be up for meeting at my hotel. I had actually read about him in this forum and wanted to experience what I read for myself.

When he arrived, the best way I could describe him was tweaked out, as if he had been using drugs. I'm not around people who use drugs much, so I couldn't tell for sure, but I knew something wasn't right with the guy. It could also have just been intense nervous energy. Unfortunately the encounter didn't go great, but he was kind the whole time and I honestly just liked his company as he had lived in Australia and had a high level of English. I never talked to him after the encounter.

Fast forward to just a few minutes ago, and I found out on the bar's Twitter that he has passed away. I don't know why I feel so sad about it because I know he wasn't a good friend of mine or anything, but I thought I could at least share here in case anyone has ever experienced something like this. I don't really have anyone IRL that I could talk to about this.

I wish I would have given him a big hug when he left my hotel that day or that we had just talked more. 

 

Its natural to grieve the first few days as the shock sets in and you will ruminate thoughts , leave it a few days and see how you feel.

If still no better then you should see your GP to talk to a counsellor.

But I'm sure after a few days you will get over it "so to speak.

I'm sure there's guys on here with psychology/counselling knowledge who could advise 💜💜

[gayinpattaya]

I had a Thai boyfriend in 2018 (not a bar boy). We broke up but stayed friends and had fun sometimes. We had friends in common so would still regularly go to Sinlapin Issan ect.
We were separated during COVID as I was no longer living in Thailand. \

6 week before my return to Thailand we were talking most days, excited to reunite. 4 weeks before my return, he went silent. 

His friends told me drugs, but I never saw him take drugs. He was a hard working young man. He died. He was 28. 

============

Yes these things happen in Thailand. But the country has little effect on how much it hurts. 
I'm sorry you lost your friend. Just writing this has me in streaming tears. 
 

 

 

[maump]

and the equally bad thing when they get HIV and give up.  their family disowns them, they don't get treatment and die....

[Shonen]

A boy from Winner bar died a couple years ago from hiv. I spent a lot of time with him and was rather surprised when I came back and heard the news. I don’t know if he just gave up, was not taking his meds correctly, or wasn’t taking any at all. I know the meds are available if they need them.

I know another boy in another popular bar with hiv. I don’t want the same thing to happen to him. It’s probably none of my business, so I don’t ask him about it. The rest of the boys in the bar all know as they told me.  They knew he was my favorite so they wanted me to know. I suppose they were afraid I’d get it and give it to them. Maybe they were genuinely concerned for me.

[onlymeno]

I am constantly disheartened to see the many boys who die at a young age. Is it disproportionate with money boys?  I'm always sad that they were young but also that I never really know the reason.   

[scott456]

As we get older and older, there will be more sad moments and grief than happy times.  The sad news sometimes come in unexpectedly, this is why I usually book refundable airplane tickets and hotel reservation, in case somebody dies or somethings happen and I have to take care of things, or say good bye to a dying person, or attend a funeral.  

[PeterRS]

Perhaps even worse is when a boy you care about just disappears and you have no idea what happened to him, even after many years have passed. Around 16 years ago I would occasionally go to the up-market Italian restaurant Zanotti on Saladaeng. Sometimes a client would take me. At others I would go with friends. Expensive at evening time, it had a very good set lunch at a very reasonable price. There was one waiter who I found especially attractive. Mid-20s, he came from a town in Isaan. His English was good and his smile virtually to die for. I usually chatted with him. Over time we became friends although he always said he was not gay.

As his room was not far from my condo, I invited him round for drinks after work one evening. I was surprised that he came. Soon he would come quite frequently, almost always sleeping overnight on the sofa. For his birthday, I got a cake from the Mandarin Oriental shop and he was so happy. He said he'd never had a birthday cake before! Only on 2 or 3 occasions would he knock on my door and ask to sleep with me. Although i was not in love with him, I loved his company. He could be wonderfully funny and we spent many evenings on the sofa just chatting and laughing. I considered him a lovely close friend.

After about a year, he and several other staff left Zanotti following a disagreement with the manager. He told me that of the 10% service charge, the manager kept 8.5% leaving the staff to share just 1.5%. Eventually he told me that he wanted to work overseas. The Mango Tree restaurant (near Tawan Bar) had a namesake in Dubai. He had been offered a job there. I checked the contract with which I told him there were several problems. He tried to bring them up with the manager here but was told it was take it or leave it. So he signed and flew off to Dubai. In several early emails he told me how much he was enjoying the work and being in Dubai. Soon, though, things began to turn sour and he wanted to break his contract and just leave. He did have his passport but no air ticket which he was saving up for. I told him just to get the ticket and I would pay him the balance.

Back in Bangkok, he did a couple of part-time restaurant jobs before he was offered a post on one of the Royal Viking Line Cruise ships. Hugely excited, off he went to somewhere in the Baltic. When in ports he would email me saying he loved the job, despite the hard work. Eventually he had some leave coming up. He wrote and asked if he could stay with me in Bangkok. Of course I agreed. Having given me his dates, he said he'd contact me when he got back to Thailand. Sure enough, he mailed me to say he had arrived but would first go to see his family. He'd come to Bangkok after 6 days. That was the last I heard from him!

I mailed him several times. They were unanswered. I left sms messages on his phone which was still working. No reply. I called and just got the ring tone. After a couple of months I wrote that I did not care what had happened to him - maybe he'd married, maybe found a long-term boyfriend, maybe been in a bad accident - all I wanted to know was that he was OK and perhaps see him if he came to Bangkok. If he needed help, I was here. Again no reply. 

I hope he is somewhere and happily settled down with the good job he deserves and a love life that he enjoys. If I could just get one mail saying that, I'd be really happy for him. It would also set my mind at ease. My fear is that something happened when he was back with his family and he died. It's the not knowing that occasionally, even now, gnaws at me.

[vinapu]

9 hours ago, PeterRS said:

I hope he is somewhere and happily settled down with the good job he deserves and a love life that he enjoys. If I could just get one mail saying that, I'd be really happy for him. It would also set my mind at ease. My fear is that something happened when he was back with his family and he died. It's the not knowing that occasionally, even now, gnaws at me.

If something happened to him surely it would put your mind at easy if you learned about it. But  in great scheme of things it's better to live in limbo because there's always hope he turned things around and simply wanted to forget about his previous life or just got busy with life. One day as we say in family, postcard from Brazil may come.

Why Brazil ? I can relate to your story very well as we had close family member who after being dumped by his wife disappeared into thin air for 12 years (66-78 ) to extend his own mother dying did not know whether she is joining him or leaving behind. Then out of blue postcard came from Brazil where he was vacationing. Luckily we were at the same s address still . Subsequently we got reunited but that's long story.

So it's better to think he forgot about you , as unpleasant that thought may be, than wait for confirmation something bad happened.

[reader]

Even if something did happen to him back home, how would his family know to notify you?

As Kipling wrote in Kim, "If I die today, who shall bring the news--and to whom?"

 

 

 

[PeterRS]

1 hour ago, reader said:

Even if something did happen to him back home, how would his family know to notify you?

As Kipling wrote in Kim, "If I die today, who shall bring the news--and to whom?"

A good point. I have no idea if any of his immediate family were able to access his emails or phone. 

There is one postscript which I did not bother to add to the story. About 7 or 8 years ago, I was with a friend having lunch in another Italian restaurant off Sathorn. I recognised the owner as being one of the ladies who had left Zanotti along with my friend. I asked her if she remembered my friend. Of course, she said. Had she seen him in recent years, I asked. There was a pause which I considered too long. Yes, she said. I asked if he was OK and in Bangkok. She summoned another of the staff who I did not recognise, chatted a little in Thai and then told me he was OK but she did not know where he was. I merely asked her to tell him I was asking about him.

I wrote in another post recently that I have never been able to understand Thai logic. But I have an idea when a Thai is being deliberately evasive. I took what I was hearing and the way she said it as being basically, "I don't want to talk about a difficult subject." Why could it have been difficult? I can only guess.

This was very similar to another reaction when a long time Thai friend passed away. He ran a little  shop with branches in Chatuchak and Terminal 21. I was in Chatuchak and wanted him to make something for me. When I saw he was not there, I asked if he was overseas as he often sourced materials in China and India. "Sorry, I don't know where he is," his nice assistant said. I was just looking at some of the products when the co-owner of the business came in. She chatted to the assistant in Thai. I asked if she knew where my friend was. After various knowing glances between the pair, she said she was very sorry to tell me he had died. Eventually I managed to tease out of her that there had been a fire in his condo and he had not been able to get out.

I left certain of two things. Firstly he must have died. Secondly it definitely had nothing to do with a fire in a condo. But what? I'll never find out.

[t0oL1]

I had spent my 65th birthday in Thailand and was so happy I did. Hadn’t been there for four years so this one hit hard the second I saw him waiting at Nice Boys. He knew how to flirt with dazzling eyes and beautiful smile. It hurt to leave after vacation and I worried about him each day I wasn’t working. Sent him enough money to feed him mother and children and his travels. I knew he had really become sick in the hospital because the emails asking for money went silent. 
       Cancelled trip because of CoVid in March 2020. Moved the ticket to his birthday in August to impress him and make it up to him, but he made it no further beyond July 4th when I got the call.  
      Two years later I really am not much better Just returned for his birthday in August and merit for him at the temple.

Why should I be better- he is still gone.

 

[BiggusDikkus]

On 9/8/2022 at 11:55 PM, flashbarryallen said:

I don't really have anyone IRL that I could talk to about this.

I might know how you feel. Maybe. But my similar story is about someone I had known for almost a decade.

It was January 2011 when I met perhaps the cutest guy I had ever laid eyes on. I was walking through Sunee when he noticed me first and said, "Hi." I immediately shifted my gaze to see who belonged to that arrestingly cute voice and inhaled the most addicting smile you could possibly imagine. He was young, 21, slight of build and with the androgynous good looks of a Korean boy band member. Of course I sat down. He wasn't only a charmer but an intoxicating conversationalist as well. He said he learned English at the Catholic school he attended while growing up. Before we left the bar, after he agreed to come back to my hotel, he stopped me and said he had to warn me. He didn't have six-pack abs. I felt so sorry for him, imagining such a comment could only come from someone who went to a customer's hotel room and got at least halfway undressed only to be sent away for lacking a perfectly chiseled torso. How painful that must have been. So I lifted up my shirt and said, "Never mind. Neither do I."

At my hotel, I asked him if he wanted to sit out on the balcony and have a beer. I figured his answer would be no, that as soon as he could he would want to take his earnings to NAB or wherever else 21-year-olds and their friends hung out to enjoy their youth. But he replied, "Why not?"

So I got to enjoy his company for a good hour more before we headed inside to shower and then to bed.

But we didn't stay on the bed for long. He had that slight build -- and it turned out a beautiful body that a six-pack might have actually marred. We were in the missionary position when I decided to take advantage of his 49 kilograms, maneuver him to the edge of the bed, plant my feet on the floor, and pick him up.

It's easy to get some really powerful thrusts in this position, and his moans sounded like he might have been in pain. I stopped and asked if he was OK. He said, "Better than OK. I love it." When I continued, his moans started up again, his eyes rolled back into his head and I realized I wasn't the only one intoxicated with my partner that night.

Eventually it was time for him to leave and as he was sliding out the door he looked back and said, "Come see me next time you're in Thailand."

I was floored. I thought we had made a real connection and that he would ask me for my contact details. I can't describe to you the hurt and disappointment I felt when he essentially said, "So long."

But I was in Pattaya again some 11 months later. Of course I went looking for ... let's call him Dave. I found him working at another bar. Or should I say he found me. "Hey, Biggus," I heard an arrestingly cute voice call out. I immediately knew it was him. I told him how hurt I was when he left last time not asking for my contact details and essentially saying, "Have a nice life." He said he didn't ask for fear of being rejected.

We went on to have a lot of fun over the years. He called me once and insisted I come out for Songkran. I told him I had heard Songkran was miserable for foreigners, that we were always being targeted with ice water even if we were on our way to work. He said, "Don't be a baby. I'll protect you."

I did go to Thailand that April, for two weeks, and to this day they remain the greatest two weeks of my life. I still use a picture from that vacation as my smartphone wallpaper to remind me that I once had a perfect day. We spent a few more Songkrans together. We'd stay up all night at the SK party -- a massive electronic dance music event that must have attracted 10,000 of the hottest young Asian men on the planet -- then spend all day water-gun fighting along Silom. After several days of full-on hedonism, we would move to Pattaya. There we would spend several days redefining hedonism. For New Year's we would go to the White Party. He met me once for a long weekend in Seoul. The last Songkran I saw him at, though, something was different. He was on edge, like he was about to lose his temper, like he was using all his energy to hold it in. He insisted we leave the SK party almost as soon as we got there and go to Silom. I had spent hundreds of dollars on tickets for Dave, his best friend and myself.

Never mind. When our taxi let us out on Silom, I started heading to Soi 2, thinking we were going to DJ Station, but Dave said no, we were going to Soi 4. I didn't understand. There was nothing happening this late on Soi 4, and just sitting down drinking was never how we spent our time together, at least not after that first night. His best friend looked at me apprehensively, then looked at Dave and said, "That's bad." He left. I followed Dave into Soi 4. We sat down and ordered drinks. A few minutes after the drinks arrived someone who left as soon as he popped up handed Dave something and we left. On our way out the soi, one of the street vendors along Silom threw a bag to Dave. He caught it, and we got into a taxi.

Dave told the driver to take us to my hotel. Already, I thought? Even though it was only 2am or so, I was incredibly drunk, so I went along with it. What else was I gonna do? And anyway I needed to relieve my bladder and wouldn't mind doing so in my clean hotel bathroom.

But when I got out of the bathroom, Dave was smoking crystal meth.

Our relationship didn't last much longer. Sure, we texted but only so Dave could ask me for money and call me vile names when I refused.

In December 2020, almost a year into the pandemic and years since I had blocked Dave on Line, his best friend called me to say he was dead.

At this point, I hadn't known anything but pain from Dave for years. Still, though, knowing someone I had spent so many great nights and days with was dead, well, it still hurts.

So maybe I feel your pain. I keep Dave in my memory because that's all I can do.

 

 

[vinapu]

1 hour ago, BiggusDikkus said:

 

But when I got out of the bathroom, Dave was smoking crystal meth.

Our relationship didn't last much longer

you did right thing by cutting him off , sooner the better

[PeterRS]

3 minutes ago, vinapu said:

you did right thing by cutting him off , sooner the better

Sometimes doing the right thing can be incredibly painful. But when it has to be done, it is better than the alternative of a longer, bitter decline in what was once something unique and beautiful.

[vinapu]

3 hours ago, PeterRS said:

A good point. I have no idea if any of his immediate family were able to access his emails or phone. 

 

all three, you and earlier reader and Kipling before him are shining light on very serious issue In this age when every imaginable institution , government, banks etc. are nudging or outright forcing us to  login in , create account and password and conduct all our business online.

All good until we are able to understand and control it. But day may come when we won't or we'll die suddenly . Than , if no proper records were maintained or instructions given,  nobody will  have access   to our accounts and affairs and even worse they may not even have slightest idea about our  unpaid bills, outstanding loans and unfiled taxes. I see it quite a bit and don't envy  executors in such  a cases specially if they succumb to family pressures and distribute assets too early.

Funny thing , when I mentioned this to my investment advisor  who was, you guessed it, calling me to cut of mailing and switch to digital he was stunned " I never thought about it" .

We should keep it in mind now when we are of somewhat sound mind and ask ourselves that question 'will the know what is where and whom to call ? "

[vinapu]

14 minutes ago, PeterRS said:

Sometimes doing the right thing can be incredibly painful. But when it has to be done, it is better than the alternative of a longer, bitter decline in what was once something unique and beautiful.

specially in cases of substance abuse where's always danger user may lost control and  things may turn really nasty.

[zoomomancs]

In 2017 I had returned from Bangkok to UK by a week when I heard on Facebook that a Vietnamese man, aged 20, who I knew, had died after jumping into the Chao Phraya river after a tiff with a woman in a taxi at 05.30am after going to a birthday party. I don't think me meant to die, just to make a point to the woman, but I guess he was drunk. He worked in Red Dragon Bar on Patpong Soi 2. That day I flew to Ha Tinh to visit his family. I will never forget him. In a week I will be in Bangkok. I will be more generous to the lads as a tribute to his memory.  

[GWMinUS]

12 hours ago, vinapu said:

We should keep it in mind now when we are of somewhat sound mind and ask ourselves that question 'will the know what is where and whom to call ? "

Here in the US, and I am sure in many countries, there is a Legal Document called a Durable Power of Attorney. It empowers someone to act for you if you are unable to make decisions yourself and when you die to take over your affairs. As I am now 81 and my partner is 75, we both keep reminding each other that we need to find a Lawyer and set up this document. But it seems we never get around to it...

So be advised. Take the time and prepare for the inevitable!!

[Londoner]

We have something similar here in the UK and I've been exploring the possibility of, as GWMinUS says, "preparing for the inevitable". It is not straightforward: I'd hoped that my solicitor/executor could fulfil that role but it turns out that this is not the case.

I'd appreciate some advice, either here or via a PM.

[Ivan]

I saw the post on the twitter and was shocked to know that.

[Olddaddy]

19 minutes ago, Londoner said:

We have something similar here in the UK and I've been exploring the possibility of, as GWMinUS says, "preparing for the inevitable". It is not straightforward: I'd hoped that my solicitor/executor could fulfil that role but it turns out that this is not the case.

I'd appreciate some advice, either here or via a PM.

Don't you have the Govt publictrustee department in the UK?

I'm sure you do but just different name ,I'm sure they have paid service to act as Executor of the Will like they do here in Australia.

You must have a Government service similar to the website below 

www.tag.nsw.gov.au 

 

[scott456]

15 hours ago, vinapu said:

 

All good until we are able to understand and control it. But day may come when we won't or we'll die suddenly . Than , if no proper records were maintained or instructions given,  nobody will  have access   to our accounts and affairs and even worse they may not even have slightest idea about our  unpaid bills, outstanding loans and unfiled taxes. I see it quite a bit and don't envy  executors in such  a cases specially if they succumb to family pressures and distribute assets too early.

Funny thing , when I mentioned this to my investment advisor  who was, you guessed it, calling me to cut of mailing and switch to digital he was stunned " I never thought about it" .

We should keep it in mind now when we are of somewhat sound mind and ask ourselves that question 'will the know what is where and whom to call ? "

This why you need to set up a living trust (if in the U.S.), and put all your assets in the trust.  Make a list of these assets, attach it to the Trust document.  When you die, the successor trustee will be able to take care of it.  This has nothing to do with paper/paperless systems.  Your successor trustee will have access to those assets in the trust even without online passwords.