Trip report: Thailand September 2022

[reader]

19 minutes ago, emiel1981 said:

With Thais still wearing their masks everywhere (even outside on the streets) it's hard to see if a boy is flirting. And smiles are not seen trough that masks... Thank god at least the boys on stage don't wear masks...

I should have been more specific. It's actually eye contact that communicates interest. And a head turn--with or without mask--is not to be ignored. 😄

19 minutes ago, emiel1981 said:

Somehow I think there is a difference for me. I would like to think at least there is some kind of equal opportunity and fair competition here. But when the hot "straight" boy on stage has to choose between a girl in the audience or me, I thinks I don't make a fair chance anymore... And sometimes that makes me a jealous bitch... Lol

You're right. It's completely unfair but you can't compete with a straight guy's libido--unless of course you're prepared to wildly outbid the lady's best bid for his affection. But even then, you may well still end up disappointed.

[fedssocr]

I've always read that you should decline the dynamic currency conversion at any point of sale or ATM.

The blue MRT goes quite near the Grand Palace area now as well

[vinapu]

2 hours ago, emiel1981 said:

 Because Bangkok has much more to offer than boys alone, right?) 

yes , there are some girls there too, actually quite a lot

2 hours ago, emiel1981 said:

I took the advice from this forum to download the Bolt taxi app. As Bolt should be cheaper than Grab. For my trip from Le Méridien hotel in Silom to Gran Palace I looked up the prices:

Bolt: 87 baht, 17 minutes waiting time
Grab: 177 baht, 8 minutes waiting time 

.......

Well... Happy I never listened to them. As conversion via atm would have cost met just over 300 euro. 💸 I just checked my digital account and my bank only charged me 286 euro... Good to know. 

in May  me , my Boy de Last Night and other member hailed taxi on Suriwong in front of Patpong and  paid 100 baht to Grand Palace tip included so it looks Bolt is not much better if at all and Grab just extortionate

.......

yes, never accept ATM conversion rate but let  bank convert it. I did the same in May and it was always more favourable , the same as you discover.

Also because of bank fees, often on both ends,  it's better to withdraw bigger amounts like 20000 or 25000 in one shot.

Also when paying  by credit  decline conversion at point of sale and let bank to do that. So called ' dynamic conversion ' was invented to skin tourists alive, often without anesthetics.

[vinapu]

2 hours ago, reader said:

It's completely unfair but you can't compete with a straight guy's libido--unless of course you're prepared to wildly outbid the lady's best bid for his affection...

for example by hanging that 1000 baht garland  on the guy in plain view of everybody or even better to hand him that 1000 baht note but in a way he will be able to see what he is getting

[macaroni21]

@emiel1981 Thank you for the report on Jupiter. Your observations are exactly like my assessment in 2018 or 2019, and I have not had any interest in going back since.

From a mix of mamasan whispers and my own observations, the hetero women's behaviour don't mirror gay men's. They get more "head over heels" and generally tip better than the men. However, they hardly ever take the boys off - partly because they often come into the bar as a group for entertainment, not to hunt for physical sex (see quote below).

Unfortunately, from the gogo boys' point of view, if tips are generous enough for sharing 10 or 15 minutes with women - and anyway their natural interest is in women -  there is less and less interest in accepting offs from men, where they will have to WORK for their money. This partly explains the tendency to ask for more and more. 

Here's a good description from Magic Men: 7 major differences between male strip clubs and female strip clubs. The article references hetero strip clubs, but they equally describe what happens in gay strip clubs and the behaviour of women in these same spaces (as in Jupiter and BoyzBoyzBoyz).

Let me quote a key passage:

Quote

 

Generally speaking, men at either bachelor parties or in female strip clubs want to ‘check out’ the girl’s bodies and see really dirty things (The dirtier the better). They’re not there for the girls dancing skills or personalities, they are there to see some titties, let’s be honest. The female stripping industry is more closely related to porn rather than entertainment, and the entertainment you see at bucks parties (fruit n veg shows, girl on girl shows, dominatrix shows, triple xxx shows) are usually classified as porn if you watch it on the internet anyway. So let’s get one thing straight here, guys are only interested in one thing, and that’s any [anything] sexual.

Women, when viewing male strippers, just want to have fun and have a laugh with their friends. There’s not much more to It. The male stripping industry Is all about cheeky entertainment (and not so much about sex). You may find this hard to believe at first, but I strongly argue that most women just want some light-hearted, funny entertainment that they all can enjoy with their girlfriends. Yes, they do want to see some sexual dancing, but this is VERY different from what female strippers do, and to what men want when they hire a female stripper. 

 

Jupiter (and Moonlight) are taken in by the style of fashion shows, where the "models" do runway walks, often at quite a fast pace with unsmiling expressions. I wonder if somewhere in the psychology of women, they like this kind of thing....

They are also mimicking the shows of the Thai bars e.g. Fake Club. Not that I've been to them, but I have seen videos. They get a good (and mixed) crowd, and their shows too are often like runway fashion shows. I won't be surprised if the Silom-Surawong bar owners and managers think that this is the route to success. But these are show bars, not sex-offing bars (according to my Thai friends).

At least in the above video, it was a guy, not a woman, who was invited to the "chair dance".

The next video is perhaps their full show for an evening (or most of it).

But places like Fake Club are show bars where friends go in groups to enjoy a night out, not sex-offing bars. And frankly, from the videos, Fake Club does a better job of shows than any Silom-Surawong bar.

The problem is this: If we had to choose between going to a show bar with no realistic chance of a satisfactory off and a  sex-offing bar with no show, which would we go to? I would choose the latter with no hesitation, and I think many members here would too. Yet the Silom-Surawong bars keep investing in shows with gatoeys and loud music. That shows you how much the bar owners understand their market.

[vinapu]

2 hours ago, macaroni21 said:

 

The problem is this: If we had to choose between going to a show bar with no realistic chance of a satisfactory off and a  sex-offing bar with no show, which would we go to? I would choose the latter with no hesitation, and I think many members here would too

count me in

 

at end of day what counts is that in Bangkok or broader,  in Thailand we still have a choice

[reader]

3 hours ago, macaroni21 said:

That shows you how much the bar owners understand their market.

I agree. I'd prefer just a parade rotation sans the show. But I think the bar owners are more tuned in to what Asian audiences of both sexes like and that is a show. They want to be entertained for their pricey drink. It certainly seems to work for Moonlight and it was a big part of the draw at Lucky Boys.

That's not to say they don't also come for--and regularly leave with--a boy.

Those of us who are westerners are becoming more of a minority.

[fedssocr]

Haven't the shows been in place for a long time though - since before there were so many Asian women (especially) and men going to the bars?

I agree that the boytisserie is enough show for me. Or if they would be real stripper bars like what the Canadian places used to be - I haven't been up there in a while so I'm not sure what the current shows there are like. But I suspect the Montreal clubs are about the same as they used to be. I used to love Remington's in Toronto. So many fun times there.

[reader]

I remember Remington's. I seem to recall it had a back room but it's been many years since I was last there. Same for Montreal that had a host of memorable places.

As for Bangkok show bars, westerners jammed Dreamboys when it was on Twilight so we have to shoulder some of the responsibility for the popularity of the shows. We tolerated the performances so we could ogle the guys. 😄

 

[fedssocr]

Yes, the backroom at Remington's was fantastic. Sadly the bar closed down several years ago. The real estate was too valuable so yet another luxury apartment tower was to replace it.

[BiggusDikkus]

9 hours ago, macaroni21 said:

The problem is this: If we had to choose between going to a show bar with no realistic chance of a satisfactory off and a  sex-offing bar with no show, which would we go to?

I miss pre-2008 DJ Station, when the place got packed EVERY SINGLE NIGHT. When the stage would fill up with bronze-skin Adonises flaunting their perfect bodies. When a throng of twinks, macho athlete and all other types would show up to dance and flirt. When you didn't have to "off" anyone. Just flirt back. God, I remember the surge of excitement I'd get every trip to Bangkok when, on my first night in town, I'd walk through the door at DJ Station. The music instantly pulsed through my body and then I looked up on that stage. Better than any show I've ever seen elsewhere in Bangkok.

I can't wait till my trip in November. I'm really hoping the Banana room nightclub develops a similar ambience.

[BiggusDikkus]

3 hours ago, fedssocr said:

boytisserie

I like this term!

[fedssocr]

I want to trademark it.

[emiel1981]

Part 6: A rainy day keeps the customers and boys away... 

It was a rainy Sunday evening yesterday. It was already 10:15pm, and I was looking out of the window of my hotel room waiting for the rain to stop. From the 17th floor of Le Méridien I couldn't really tell how hard it actually rained. So I decided just to give it a go. Patpong 2 is just a very short walk from the hotel anyway. 

Not too wet I arrived in an empty street where some touts under umbrellas offered me a dry place to shelter. I still didn't go to Hotmale yet the last days so without much chitchat in the street with the tout, I directly walked upstairs.

There it seemed the rain had kept everybody away. Both the clients and the boys. I counted 6 customers. And 8 boys on stage. But you only need one nice boy to have a great evening, right? Quality over quantity. 

Drink 400 baht. Boys on stage wearing jeans and some even sleeveless white shirt with Hotmale logo on it. But I don't complain, as I did see some eyecandy on stage. A very friendly papasan started a nice conversation with me. He also told me 5 of the 8 boys were gay and can be fucked. From these 5 there were at least 3 I could take home because they were my cup of tea... 

One of them was the whole time smiling at me. He had a very cute and nice smile. If you would visit Hotmale when he's there, you would definitely be able to pick him out of the line of boys directly. He's the one with by far the nicest smile and naughty sparkle in his eyes. I directly felt for it and knew straight away he was going to be my off for tonight. But I like to play hard to get a littlebit. So I teased him, smiled back. But also flirted with some other boys. 

The show started. Papasan told me gonna be short show because quiet night. I could completely understand. It was a bit awkward for the boys to do a few acts for only a few customers. It started with a very original but strange act: a boy in small underwear and virus ball toys (like on the picture below) attached to his custome came on stage and was chased away by a boy in protective clothing and mouth mask. 

After 3 acts is was already time for theasr part; the big cock show with 3 boys showing their junk. One of them had I think the biggest cock I've ever seen in Thailand. So if that's your thing you now know where to go... I tipped all 3 guys 100 baht. As soon the show was over and all boys came on stage again I invited Mr Cutesmile over for a drink. During the show some more customers came in and I couldn't have somebody else quickly take him before I could make a move. 

Tere was nowhere a ladyboy/showgirl to be found in Hotmale. Which was nice for a change after the overkill of ladyboys I witnessed the last two days. Let's not speak about the low quality of the acts, but at least for originality they score a 10 because of the covid act... Lol

Mr Cutesmile is from Cambodia and was massageboy in Phnom Penh before. Conversation was a bit difficult because his limited knowledge of the English language and me failing to speak Khmer. Paid my bill (including 500 baht off fee) and went with Mr Cutesmile to 7-eleven to buy a drink and baby oil for the massage. No questions asked by the reception staff of Le Méridien, only a very friendle welcome back greet like always. 

We shower seperate. I can tell Mr Cutesmile is a bit nervous. So I tell him we start with massage and will see. I assure him we don't need to do anything he doesn't want. Because I got the feeling his nervousness was fueled by the papasan telling him I am top and want to fuck him. This boy was cute enough for massage, some touching, enjoying his body and sucking. And that's what happend. I don't always have to fuck. I actually only enjoy it when the boy that I'm with enjoys it too or at least gives me that impression. Massage skills of Mr Cutesmile are oke. Not too hard, not too soft. Perfect for me. When the deed was done we showered together. After another attempt to have a small conversation (via google translate) it was time to send him on his way... 
 

[Boy69]

31 minutes ago, emiel1981 said:

A very friendly papasan started a nice conversation with me. He also told me 5 of the 8 boys were gay and can be fucked. From these 5 there were at least 3 I could take home because they were my cup of tea... 

Wasn't the boy one of the 5 gay can be fuck and if so why was he so nervous in your room  ?

[floridarob]

54 minutes ago, emiel1981 said:

When the deed was done

Massage or ......did he "losen" up?

[vinapu]

57 minutes ago, emiel1981 said:

During the show some more customers came in and I couldn't have somebody else quickly take him before I could make a move. 

 

that was very smart and prudent as quite often I see customers entering bars and calling some guy to seat with them shortly after. I'm one of those , if I see somebody I like I tend to call him right away. 

[emiel1981]

18 hours ago, macaroni21 said:

@emiel1981  The problem is this: If we had to choose between going to a show bar with no realistic chance of a satisfactory off and a  sex-offing bar with no show, which would we go to? I would choose the latter with no hesitation, and I think many members here would too. Yet the Silom-Surawong bars keep investing in shows with gatoeys and loud music. That shows you how much the bar owners understand their market.

How nice would it be to have a bar with goodlooking gay or at least boys willing to go with a male customer in all different categories, so it caters for all tastes. And that they, besides better and more parading around, also somehow manage to deliver a good quality show. That would be the perfect venue in my world. 

If seducing your customers to off a boy is your main income, I don't understand that when a show starts the boys that are off-able are not "on display" for hours. Let the boy parade be the main thing of the night. In different forms, different outfits during the night. And in between the parading some short showacts. But acts that actual make sense and are fun or erotic. Not the slow moving around (I can't call it dancing) you now see so often. Someone must have told the Thais that's its erotic to see half naked boy do slow-motion movements... But that's so not true... Lol

Wouldn't we (and also the woman that come) love it to spice it up a littlebit a la Magic Mike? Modernise it. Put up the speed. As now acts tend to go on and on way too long. 

Well.. Shall we just start our own bars as we all have so many ideas and know better? Lol

6 hours ago, Boy69 said:

Wasn't the boy one of the 5 gay can be fuck and if so why was he so nervous in your room  ?

Yeah actually he was one of the boys that could be fucked according to papasan. He even double checked with Mr Cutesmile in the bar. Probabaly the boy wanted an off, did see the lack of customers, and agreed to it but actually was not very comfortable with it. Than we can say he shouldn't have agreed on being able to get fucked, but I'm nice guy and consider the boy his feelings and won't push him to do things he's actually not comfortable with. 

6 hours ago, floridarob said:

Massage or ......did he "losen" up?

Omg... You guys want all the dirty details? Hahaha... Allright... Massage, kissing, licking, sucking, cuming... But no fucking. 😂😛

[emiel1981]

Part 7: Let's try an old gay favourite: the Tarntawan Hotel

I can't afford Le Méridien for my complete stay, so after 3 nights of luxury I checked out and changed hotels to the old gay-favourite Tarntawan. Never stayed there before. On previous trips I’ve stayed in The Raya (when they just opened and were having very competitive room rates), but mainly in D Varee Express and Bally Suite. The last two because they always have very good offers and are some of the cheapest options of acceptable quality around Silom.

During my last trip I decided not to book Bally Suite anymore. The rooms are showing age. Air-conditioning was not working well. And you have to be in luck with the allocation of your room. If you’re placed in a room at the DJ Station side of the hotel, you will be able to hear the music in your hotel room almost as loud as if you are in the club itself. D Varee Express I would still recommend if you’re looking for a low-budget option and if you’re oke with not having a window in your room (as their cheapest option doesn’t have a window).

I’ve read so many good reviews on this forum about the Tarntawan, and how you guys have stayed here many times, I decided to go for that place this time and try it. 

My room in the Tarntawan 

It has been written on this forum before and I can confirm; the hotel is showing its age. Actually the basis of the room is quite oke. The closet, bed, desk and wood/yellow wall are still in style. But the room could use a fresh up. Specially the curtains. Holes are in it and part of it hangs loose. The big photograph above the bed is not sticking well to the wall anymore and is getting loose. And I would replace the chairs and table. Probabaly the bathroom needs a renovation too. Room is very dark. It has big windows but they are keeping out the daylight because they are this kind of blinded windows. So yeah there is some work to do, but it wouldn't need a complete renovation to get this hotel ready for the next 10 years. Just a fresh up. 

But off course the location makes it work. Around the corner is Tawan, and Patpong is just 5 minutes walk. As I just checked in I didn't have a boy over yet. But previous posts about this hotel make it clear absolutely no problem taking boys to your room. So that's perfect! 

But to be honest after my first impression; with current low hotel rates I think there are better hotel options in this area. 

[macaroni21]

9 hours ago, emiel1981 said:

Tere was nowhere a ladyboy/showgirl to be found in Hotmale.

That was true in July too. Credit to Hotmale.  If only more bars followed that example. By the way, did you pay 350 baht or 400 baht for your first drink there?

 

15 hours ago, fedssocr said:

Haven't the shows been in place for a long time though - since before there were so many Asian women (especially) and men going to the bars?

They certainly have, but the role of shows in the bars' business model has changed to dominate the business objective. This makes the boy hunter feel neglected. His interests are not well served.

But first, we need to distinguish three types of shows:

They are (a) live porn, (b) fancy dancing by boys (or, more often than not, hopelessly amateurish attempts at fancy dancing), and (c) fake singing by fake women (I think someone will rap me for being politically incorrect).

Live porn and some degree of fancy dancing goes well with a boyticeria; it complements the business well, since it interests the same kind of customer, heightens the erotic quotient in the bar and lengthens the time he stays in the bar.

Fancy dancing should not dominate the show programme otherwise the programme starts to slip into non-erotic mode.

Fake singing by fake women is actually counter-productive for boyticerias. Customers aren't in the bars to watch women, real of fake, why waste their time demanding that they watch? The ladyboys tend to be overdressed and the performances are more like cabaret. The nett effect is to lower the erotic quotient, replacing it with bright lights, voluminous costumes and deafening volume. 

My memory from the days of Twilight and Barbiery in the 1990s was that live porn dominated their show programmes. There were some numbers by fake women, but not enough to seriously alter the tone of the bar. 

Then Extreme Bar came along (Soi Twilight, early 2000s?) and they introduced fancy dancing. They did not flash anything from under the belt in the entire programme and within a couple of years, the bar went out of business. But the damage was done. The other bars began to "improve" their shows. More fancy dancing, usually with real dancers brought in for the evening to do 2 or 3 numbers (nowadays we still see that in the "B-Boys" break dance numbers), and when bars needed to fill an hour-long programme, more diva items were added.

Then, from  2005, Thailand saw huge increases in visitors from Asian countries and Russia. What happened next to the business model of the bars and to pricing is described in my latest post 15 years of price rises. These new visitors to Thailand, while middle-class enough to travel, weren't big spenders like Westerners. Offing boys might have been too costly for most of them. In any case, as I wrote:

Quote

 

My casual observation of Asian and Russian visitors is that they are rarely solo travellers. This does not always mean they are in the stereotypical packaged tour groups, but quite often (and increasingly so) they are in privately arranged, smaller groups of friends or family.

They are likely to be sharing rooms – not surprising if they are in groups, and from countries not as wealthy as Western Europe or North America – and even if so inclined, they would be unlikely customers for booking gogo boys out. However, if they’re in like-minded company. they may be enticed to go into a bar for the show.

Their approach to the bars was therefore one of seeking entertainment, not offing. They wanted a thrilling show. This new pattern of customer behaviour was obvious from the way the crowd piled in 15 minutes before showtime and stampeded out after the show ended, and from the increasing numbers of women coming with their pals.

In those years, Dream Boy and Jupiter were attracting 60, 80 or perhaps 100 customers per night for the show – based on my contemporaneous notes. With such strong numbers, these two bars were thus able to raise prices. And they had to, because the typical customer bought just one drink, nursed it through the entire show and left as soon as it was over. The drink price was the only way the bars could get revenue from these customers.

 

6 - 7 years later, these Asian tourists were no longer surging into the Soi Twilight bars. My blogpost tries to explain why. But more damage had been done. Firstly, the shows had been bulked up; they were now too long in duration and too heavy with gatoeys (ladyboys) and secondly, drink prices had gone up to levels that were off-putting for customers who were primarily interested in the available boys and booking one of them out. Worse, as @emiel1981 also noticed, the book-able boys are mostly hidden away during the show. 

In short: Shows in the form of short bursts of live porn add value to the bars businesses; shows in the form of hour-long wanna-be cabaret subtract value.

[macaroni21]

Once again, @emiel1981's observations match mine - this time about Tarntawan Hotel. It is habitable, but it's getting really old. The dark wood of the heavy furniture is the one thing I remember most. I found it made the room gloomy, and that's not a mood I want to be in. I also have a personal dislike of bathtubs. A modern shower stall is important to me. preferably one big enough for two. So, except for maybe 2 visits perhaps 10 - 12 years ago, I have not been back.

[floridarob]

3 hours ago, emiel1981 said:

But to be honest after my first impression; with current low hotel rates I think there are better hotel options in this area. 

Paying rates in the low $20 usd including breakfast for 2 ......they'll never have a reserve to remodel. At this price point and location, what are the better hotel options?

They do have rooms on the front side of the hotel that are better than the back, for a few bucks more 😉

[vinapu]

6 hours ago, emiel1981 said:

but I'm nice guy and consider the boy his feelings and won't push him to do things he's actually not comfortable with

  

 and rightly so. I most cases we can't go wrong with trying to make boy as comfortable in our presence as possible . After all, even if paid , they are guests in our space.

Better they feel , chances for better time with them rises exponentially.

Of course we need to remember 'paid ' part and while making our guest comfortable we need to watch for signs of them feeling too comfortable thus taking advantage of our hospitality. If they agreed to something which is very important to us we have an option of enforcing terms of contract or cut agreed or intended compensation.

If one is good with skipping kissing,  sucking , fucking, showering together or whatever was expected but doesn't work , no harm done as in case above.

But if say , hand holding for 1 hr. while watching episode 8 of KinnPorsche was very important  to us and was agreed upon explicitly,  we should let guy know we don't like it as a minimum and if need be , cut his tip or use my preferred  solution  - tell him next time  he is approaching us that  he has no chance of an off.

If we still like guy for this or that there's even better idea, forget whole thing and give him second chance. It may work marvelously , for 128th time I repeat that my second worst and the best off were with the same guy.

 

as for us asking juicy details remember that while we have right to be curious , you can exercise your right of telling us only as much as you want including ' none of your business" or simply skip the question.

[vinapu]

2 hours ago, floridarob said:

Paying rates in the low $20 usd including breakfast for 2 ......they'll never have a reserve to remodel. At this price point and location, what are the better hotel options?

 

you are right.

While we enjoy low prices we need to remember that eventually it will start to bite us back when funds will be to scarce for maintenance , even less basic renovations. That was sad fate of once very agreeable places like Om Yim and Nantra Silom

So unfortunately when we are fortunate enough to land a good rate we need to be prepared to compromise on quality.

With such mind frame staying in somewhat neglected hotel will be enjoyable enough. While Tarnatwan was never my favorite option I stay there quite a few times. Location can't be bitten indeed , central yet quiet.

[vinapu]

6 hours ago, emiel1981 said:

D Varee Express I would still recommend if you’re looking for a low-budget option and if you’re ok with not having a window in your room (as their cheapest option doesn’t have a window).

 with current low hotel rates I think there are better hotel options in this area. 

some of rooms there have kind of thick glass panels , not really window but still letting in some daylight.

I actually liked their well organized rooms with ample desk/ table space  running width of the whole room.

Some of cheap hotel have their use for me when arriving late or departing late evening / early in the morning. Paying full rate for very reduced room use doesn't make any sense for me so if my flights land say at 3 am or depart at midnight I book for first and last night or two room in one of those cheapies. this way even for half day I still have bed and shower.

For me best options in Silom area are Raya, Baan Silom soi 3 and Furama Xclusive Sathorn. I did not try yet new arrivals 56 Suriwong and Ibis Silom. Quarter Silom is excellent but rooms too small for a price so I rather walk to bars  from more roomy places