So my friend in Rio has Monkeypoxx

[bucknaway]

My friend in Rio informed me he has monkeypoxx for the last 3 weeks.  I'm sure he got it in one of the sex clubs he loves to visit.  When I was there he took me to about 4 clubs near the lapa area.

 

I'm due to arrive in Brazil in October and I admit I am a lot more concerned over monkeypoxx than I ever was of covid.  I am wondering what I will do when I'm in the mood for sex?  Will I stick to regulars or will I just hope for the best?

 

I talked to my friends in Sao Paulo and none of them have heard anything about monkeypoxx.  

 

This trip, I'm bringing friends from Sao Paulo to Rio for a weekend partyfest before they fly back to work and home.  Before I planned a bar and sauna crawl till the wee early morning but now I don't know.

 

And then there is the sauna.  I hear the pox lingers on surfaces.  Wearing a towel could expose skin to contamination?  Maybe?  Maybe not?

 

For now I'm going to pull a scarlet and worry about this stuff another day...

[Lonnie]

51 minutes ago, bucknaway said:

he has monkeypoxx for the last 3 weeks

Do you know when Monkeypox has run its course... how long you remain contagious?

[bucknaway]

I don't have any idea,. My friend in Rio has had it for 3 weeks going on 4.  He's been lucky to be able to work from home but he thinks he will lose his job.

[Mavica]

Monkeypox information:

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/monkeypox

https://www.ncdhhs.gov/media/17425/download?attachment?attachment

https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biologics/vaccines/key-facts-about-vaccines-prevent-monkeypox-disease

[Lonnie]

Thanks Mavica for the Monkeypox links...  anyone know how long do you remain contagious?

[speedoo1]

Until the symptoms are gone/rash and blisters are healed etc.

[Riobard]

4 hours ago, Lonnie said:

anyone know how long do you remain contagious?

# Monkeypox

Nobody knows for sure yet. The UK is recommending condom use for several weeks following apparent recovery, presumed recovery based on dermatological symptoms clearing. Due to the possibility of contagious virus lingering in semen and uncertainty about its potential for transmission during sex. The CDC is not yet on board with this recommendation. 

Also, recent research from Belgium and France is demonstrating MPXV viral detection in men’s routinely collected samples in STI clinics, sampling of men with otherwise no recent history of MPXV and no signs of it at collection. Many of these men did not go on to develop symptoms in spite of testing positive. It is not known if they can transmit infection, in spite of being asymptomatic, through saliva, semen, etc.

The ratio of symptomatic to asymptomatic is not known. However, 5% of the Paris sample of screened men were positive for MPXV yet not anywhere near that proportion of the overall MSM population had symptomatic infection during the study period. 

Another word to the wise: If you are going to travel it is advisable to be abstinent from what would be rationally considered to be high-risk sex for some weeks prior to departure lest you acquire infection at home and get sick abroad following incubation period, a costly prospect.

https://archive.ph/2eEuh

[Lonnie]

1 hour ago, Riobard said:

The CDC is not yet on board with this recommendation. 

Thanks Riobard. We can all fully trust whatever the CDC says.

[JKane]

On 8/27/2022 at 8:52 AM, Lonnie said:

Thanks Riobard. We can all fully trust whatever the CDC says.

 

The nature of science is to be wrong but work towards being less wrong.  Of medicine to move towards the least harm.  

They are not the infallible god-emperors, nor do THEY claim THEY are. 

But they're a HELL of a lot less wrong than your average Alex Jones or Joe Rogan, and more accountable-which is how we're openly discussing their past mistakes.   

[Guest]

On 8/26/2022 at 7:39 PM, bucknaway said:

I talked to my friends in Sao Paulo and none of them have heard anything about monkeypoxx

they’ve all heard about Monkeypox - they just don’t want to acknowledge the problem, which is a very Brazilian thing to do. And, appears as if your friends have something to gain in making sure you make the trip to Brazil - so don’t count on an honest dialogue.

My Brazilian friends in Barcelona had the same curious lack of knowledge 6-weeks ago.

Brazil is in a much earlier stage of Monkeypox and no vaccines in high-risk populations - I would think it’s just getting started there.

[scott456]

On 8/26/2022 at 10:39 AM, bucknaway said:

I'm due to arrive in Brazil in October and I admit I am a lot more concerned over monkeypoxx than I ever was of covid.  I am wondering what I will do when I'm in the mood for sex?  Will I stick to regulars or will I just hope for the best?

 

I talked to my friends in Sao Paulo and none of them have heard anything about monkeypoxx.  

 

This trip, I'm bringing friends from Sao Paulo to Rio for a weekend partyfest before they fly back to work and home.  Before I planned a bar and sauna crawl till the wee early morning but now I don't know.

 

And then there is the sauna.  I hear the pox lingers on surfaces.  Wearing a towel could expose skin to contamination?  Maybe?  Maybe not?

 

For now I'm going to pull a scarlet and worry about this stuff another day...

Your trip is not until October.  You still have time to get vaccinated in the U.S.

[Guest]

Today in New York Times - yes, Monkeypox is a big deal & yes, it’s in São Paulo & Rio

Pain, Fear, Stigma: What People Who Survived Monkeypox Want You to Know
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/31/nyregion/monkeypox-stories-isolation.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

[Axiom2020]

I just came to this thread and would merely advise that everyone who's sexually active obtain the vaccination.  In my county in California, I contacted its health department.  The folks never returned my calls, so I contacted a health agency in San Francisco and drove there on my day of appointment and received the vaccination against M-pox.

During these times of both covid and Pox, I'd be fully vaxxxed before engaging, but in the end, it's your call, and I am being fully non judgmental.

[scott456]

In addition to Covid and M-pox vaccines.  For those who had covid infection previously, it's wise to get Shingle vaccines.

[Guest]

On 8/29/2022 at 2:21 PM, Slvkguy said:

they’ve all heard about Monkeypox - they just don’t want to acknowledge the problem, which is a very Brazilian thing to do. And, appears as if your friends have something to gain in making sure you make the trip to Brazil - so don’t count on an honest dialogue.

My Brazilian friends in Barcelona had the same curious lack of knowledge 6-weeks ago.

Brazil is in a much earlier stage of Monkeypox and no vaccines in high-risk populations - I would think it’s just getting started there.

Hey @Mavica - you seem to have strong opinions/knowledge about what’s going on in Brazil re: Monkeypox & Covid ?  

When were you last in Brazil ?  I was in São Paulo April 2022 & they were absolutely in denial re; Covid as it was bad for business.  
Similarly, I was in Barcelona in July 2022 and my Brazilian friends there were in denial re; Monkeypox (it was raging in Spain at the time) and Covid.  They literally said both Covid & Monkeypox had run its course in Spain & were totally over.  Obviously not true.

Brazilians are notorious for avoiding anything that could cause conflict or for garotos more specifically, they won’t acknowledge anything that could impact their business…..so, I’m not sure where you get your information.

My original point was that if anyone is looking to Brazilian friends (aka garotos) for current health guidance or a real-world description of what’s happening, it’s likely to be skewed towards making it seem inconsequential or not a problem, when the reality is much different.  

Btw - the two dose Jynneos Monkeypox vaccine is estimated to be 85% effective. It’s not a free pass to avoid infection. And, Brazil has received a small amount of vaccines (50,000 doses) and just started distribution last 2 weeks. 

[Lonnie]

1 hour ago, Slvkguy said:

Btw - the two dose Jynneos Monkeypox vaccine is estimated to be 85% effective

In macaques(monkeys) not humans. There have been no human tests yet reported.

[Riobard]

2 hours ago, Slvkguy said:

Btw - the two dose Jynneos Monkeypox vaccine is estimated to be 85% effective. It’s not a free pass to avoid infection. And, Brazil has received a small amount of vaccines (50,000 doses) and just started distribution last 2 weeks. 

Importantly, how is the 20K recent MVA-BN batch (and 30K to follow later) to be disseminated? Directed to the target of some 1 million MSM? Apparently not. The initial rollout will focus on health care and lab workers first and foremost. Understandably, since the ratio of population to a supply of 2 doses x 10K is 20,000:1 

I don’t think the plan is fractional dosing to expand inventory. Thus, the virus will continue to rip through the more susceptible subpopulation. If the incidence curve eventually drops anyway it may relate to transmission dispersion and reproduction dynamics wherein the most sexually active MSM acquire infection immunity. 

Concomitantly, compared to other global regions, there is much less media messaging directed to MSM. Paradoxically, the vaccination distribution plan is not explicitly indicating that MSM will be left in the lurch. This de-emphasis on the highest risk group undermines the imperative of education about vulnerability and behavioural risk mitigation in the absence of vaccine access. If STI denialism is actually more prevalent among MSM Brasileiros the risk of MPXV spread is amplified by avoidance of the epidemiological facts. 

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, Lonnie said:

In macaques(monkeys) not humans. There have been no human tests yet reported.

All the more reason to proceed with caution

[Riobard]

25 minutes ago, Lonnie said:

In macaques(monkeys) not humans. There have been no human tests yet reported.

The 85% referenced is not from animal models. It is drawn from dated MPXV outbreak attack rates in Democratic Republic of Congo comparing VARV (Smallpox) vaccinated to those younger and unvaccinated. The assumption being that the later MVA-BN derivative from earlier iterations of vaccine is likely as effective. 

[Guest]

I would be extremely cautious if visiting Brazil and considering a trip to a sauna (of any kind).  

The first Monkeypox superspreader event in Madrid was at Sauna Paraiso…after the initial event in Canary Islands.  A perfect environment for mass transmission - intimate body contact and/or sheets and towels.  The sex-workers are absolutely not vaccinated at this time.

[Lonnie]

1 hour ago, Riobard said:

is not from animal models

Sorry and Thanks for the correction Riobard... I thought the antibody studies were from the older vaccine for smallpox not the Jynneos for smallpox.

Although older versions of the vaccine have been tested thoroughly in people, there has never been a large, clinical study to measure JYNNEOS's ability to protect against a monkeypox infection in people – or to stop transmission of the virus.

What is known about the vaccine, in terms of its efficacy against monkeypox, comes from studies in macaques, and immunological studies in people, which demonstrated the vaccine triggers the production of monkeypox antibodies in people's blood.

"So we know that the vaccine does stimulate the immune system and people produce antibodies when they receive the vaccine," Titanji says, "but we don't have a clinical data in humans to actually tell us, 'Okay, that immune response translates to this level of protection against getting infected with monkeypox or reducing the severity of monkeypox disease if you do get infected.' "

[Riobard]

Yeah T

16 minutes ago, Lonnie said:

Sorry and Thanks for the correction Riobard... I thought the antibody studies were from the older vaccine for smallpox not the Jynneos for smallpox.

Although older versions of the vaccine have been tested thoroughly in people, there has never been a large, clinical study to measure JYNNEOS's ability to protect against a monkeypox infection in people – or to stop transmission of the virus.

What is known about the vaccine, in terms of its efficacy against monkeypox, comes from studies in macaques, and immunological studies in people, which demonstrated the vaccine triggers the production of monkeypox antibodies in people's blood.

"So we know that the vaccine does stimulate the immune system and people produce antibodies when they receive the vaccine," Titanji says, "but we don't have a clinical data in humans to actually tell us, 'Okay, that immune response translates to this level of protection against getting infected with monkeypox or reducing the severity of monkeypox disease if you do get infected.' "

Yeah, Titanji is often interviewed but she tends to skip over the points about DRC case surveillance that are formally referenced in most MVA-BN product guidance. There is macaque response, yes/no dichotomous serological conversion in human studies with a % rate, magnitude of antibodies generated in human studies, and finally but not MVA-BN related the DRC surveillance I mentioned, which is the basis of the metric ‘up to 85%’, an inference from Smallpox vaxx history. Many moving research parts that get conflated with one another.

[Guest]

I’m seeing articles questioning overall efficacy of Jynneos - like the one below.  thoughts ?

https://www.statnews.com/2022/09/02/study-raises-concerns-about-the-effectiveness-of-the-monkeypox-vaccine/

[Lonnie]

21 minutes ago, Riobard said:

Yeah T

Let's go Redbirds! 😀

[Riobard]

44 minutes ago, Slvkguy said:

I’m seeing articles questioning overall efficacy of Jynneos - like the one below.  thoughts ?

https://www.statnews.com/2022/09/02/study-raises-concerns-about-the-effectiveness-of-the-monkeypox-vaccine/

I read the preprint a few days ago. Tellingly, the MPXV-specific antibody titres for the younger group after two MVA-BN doses (red asterisk) never nearly reach those of the pre-MVA-BN but historically Smallpox-vaccinated (yellow asterisk). So if antibody level is the main protective immunity factor the logic is that older Vaccinia-experienced would do no more poorly if not receiving MVA-BN in the current outbreak. However, many older guys got symptomatic infection prior to MVA-BN rollout and that would logically lead to the conclusion that recently vaccinated younger guys could get breakthrough infection. What remains to be seen is the comparative infection breakthrough potential between the two groups. Also, if antibody titres are the key, and if the lower quantities for younger actually satisfy the threshold for protection, then these results lead me to believe there is not much point in 2nd dose uptake for me if such is offered in Canada. (Ignore the black hatch sitting between the first two horizontal bars; it’s a smudge I realized I accidentally made when editing the photo.)