Why this Thai boy was offended?

[bkkmfj2648]

1 hour ago, Gaybutton said:

If it's not already obvious, I'll try to explain:  "The bar" is either the mama-san or whoever is in charge of the boys.

I would agree with what Gaybutton wrote from personal experience that I have had here in Europe.  In the city where I live, a decent size section of the local escorts are "controlled" by certain local "pimps" who demand a fixed price with no negotiation allowed.  The price per hour is set by the local pimps.  After getting to know some of these escorts and being able to see them in a hidden way without their designated "pimp" discovering our meeting - when I interviewed these guys I discovered the following:

• Their pimp does their marketing to get them customers - where their pimp can take 30% to 50% of their earnings.  Many of the guys like this because they hate marketing themselves to their potential clients.  Their designated pimp will even drive them to the client's place,
• They are in financial trouble and they have taken big loans from their designated pimp and they need to pay back these loans to their designated pimp,
• The pimp is providing permanent and/or temporary housing to the escort - because he lives outside of the city or cannot get permanent housing in the city.

Recently, one of these local pimps started chasing me directly to STOP obtaining services of an escort that were not arranged by him.  I prefer to find escorts that are pimp-free and work for themselves and are independent.  Obviously, the local pimp bosses do not like this, as they lose the possibility to get their cut and to control the local market prices.

Hopefully, there in Pattaya/Jomtien this type of system does not exist ?  The guys are free to choose, 1.) who they go with?, 2.) how much they will charge ?

 

[Gaybutton]

3 hours ago, bkkmfj2648 said:

Hopefully, there in Pattaya/Jomtien this type of system does not exist ?  The guys are free to choose, 1.) who they go with?, 2.) how much they will charge ?

 As far as I know, that is correct.  What used to be common when Pattaya had a great many go-go bars, the mama-sans would try to get customers to take the boys they recommended.  That's because those boys would give kickbacks to the mama-san.  I don't know how much of a kickback they gave or if any of that still goes on today, but the boys are free to go with or turn down farang, negotiate their own prices, work in whichever bars they want, and change bars any time they want.

I doubt many boys still give kickbacks to mama-sans or anyone else these days,

By the way, 1500 baht is expensive for short time in Pattaya.  Unless times have changed since I last took a bar boy off for short time (and that has been quite a while), the going rate is 1000 baht.  1500-2000 baht for overnight.  Of course, no boy will object if his customer wishes to be more generous than that.

[Min]

2 hours ago, Gaybutton said:

That's because those boys would give kickbacks to the mama-san.  I don't know how much of a kickback they gave or if any of that still goes on today

It's usually 100B for both Bangkok and Pattaya bars, as I was told by various boys from different bars. I even saw a boy from Luck Boys gave mamasan 100B right before he left the bar with me and of course before he received any money from me. I was also told that some boys tried to one-up others by giving mamasan more (like 200B) so the latter would play favorite and push him harder to potential customers.

[PeterRS]

7 hours ago, 10tazione said:

If guy can't bottom for you, then you can bottom for guy. problem solved. and if nothing works, talk about knitting.

Some guys are pure tops and some pure bottoms. Others do both. I don't think your solution would have solved anything! 🤣

[floridarob]

22 hours ago, vinapu said:

I like guy holding sign STOP

Stop !

[vinapu]

8 hours ago, 10tazione said:

If guy can't bottom for you, then you can bottom for guy. problem solved. and if nothing works, talk about knitting.

tell me something I don't know, LOL

[vinapu]

1 hour ago, PeterRS said:

Some guys are pure tops and some pure bottoms. Others do both. I don't think your solution would have solved anything! 🤣

it would. My dream off , never realized so far for few reasons is just hand holding session.

Even when I tried it always turned to hand holding something other than guy's  hand

[vinapu]

3 hours ago, Gaybutton said:

By the way, 1500 baht is expensive for short time in Pattaya.  Unless times have changed since I last took a bar boy off for short time (and that has been quite a while), the going rate is 1000 baht.  1500-2000 baht for overnight.  Of course, no boy will object if his customer wishes to be more generous than that.

I second that although 1500 for long time , while obtainable is rather on lower side i.e. not universally accepted.

as for underscored sentence, I have my doubt whether  you correct.

as reported in my May report, I had Bangkok guy LT and in the morning when I gave him his 3000, he gave me 1000 back saying 'that's too much " . Somehow I forced that 1000 on him  and offed him 2 times more subsequently. But he is not a bar boy.

[Olddaddy]

3 hours ago, Gaybutton said:

 As far as I know, that is correct.  What used to be common when Pattaya had a great many go-go bars, the mama-sans would try to get customers to take the boys they recommended.  That's because those boys would give kickbacks to the mama-san.  I don't know how much of a kickback they gave or if any of that still goes on today, but the boys are free to go with or turn down farang, negotiate their own prices, work in whichever bars they want, and change bars any time they want.

I doubt many boys still give kickbacks to mama-sans or anyone else these days,

By the way, 1500 baht is expensive for short time in Pattaya.  Unless times have changed since I last took a bar boy off for short time (and that has been quite a while), the going rate is 1000 baht.  1500-2000 baht for overnight.  Of course, no boy will object if his customer wishes to be more generous than that.

They kept quoting me 1500 ,even 2000 baht short time saying they had to pay 500 baht to the massage shop .

Maximum time 1 hour 

 

I said ..no 

[vinapu]

9 hours ago, Gaybutton said:

The bar requires?  For me, that's a new one.  I've never heard of a bar "requiring" anything except its off fee.  In this context who, exactly, is "the bar" and why would the bar give a damn how much the boy gets from an off?

If it's not already obvious, I'll try to explain:  "The bar" is either the mama-san or whoever is in charge of the boys.  "The bar requires" is because whoever is requiring it demands kickbacks - and that is likely whoever is in charge of paying the boys at the end of the month or has some other kind of hold over the boys.  If the boy is really lucky, he might get to keep half for himself.

Yet another reason why I won't take boys off from those kinds of places.

while you may be correct, reason it's new one for you is that,  as you say, you don't take boys from those kind of places.

While not universal, I heard  it few times in Dec and in May , mostly in BKK and I'm pretty sure I also did before covid. It may be  guy's own initiative or indeed bar's suggestion or even requirement. I don't know but it's not new. And boys are still willing to amend that quote.

On another hand we need to keep in mind that if they are paying off mamasan , if he lowers tip likely even less money stays in his pocket after that  "pimping fee".

It's many things going on which we don't know because guys don't tell us , even if asked.

I know guy who changed venues exactly for reason of mamasan trying to extort too high cut.

9 hours ago, gayinpattaya said:

 he only has 4-5 boys working for him, and not the best lookers in Jomtien Complex by any stretch. 

not disputing what you said but what it really means " not the best lookers ". Over years I visited many places in company of our members and I know one thing for sure. They are guys I'm salivating over other will run screaming from and other way around.

Second , not the best lookers indeed may have other advantages when comes to their work being enthusiastic tops, skilled bottoms and great kissers or just have great attitude, not to mention sizable and shapely endowment. As many of us learned at great expense , at times great looking guys are somehow lacking in customer service department. 

[vinapu]

20 minutes ago, Olddaddy said:

They kept quoting me 1500 ,even 2000 baht short time saying they had to pay 500 baht to the massage shop .

Maximum time 1 hour 

 

I said ..no 

that would be a case when you are taking guy from his place or work during scheduled hours but even than 2000 seems to be excessive  for just 1 hr

[Gaybutton]

1 hour ago, Olddaddy said:

I said ..no 

That is what I would say too.  I don't mind being generous with the boys, but I mind very much being ripped off, and that is how I see the prices being quoted.

I'll stick with the apps.  I used to be among those who felt as if they are missing something if they weren't in the bars every night.  Now I'm just fine having little to do with them at all.  Besides, I'm not a drinker in the first place.

I'm sure I would view it differently if I were in Thailand only for holidays.  Living here, I see things much differently.

I check out Jomtien Complex once every few months or so.  I haven't been to Sunee Plaza since Covid began.  I haven't been to Boyztown in years.  For me, that's quite enough.  For me times, and apparently prices, have changed.

[gayinpattaya]

3 hours ago, vinapu said:

not disputing what you said but what it really means " not the best lookers ". Over years I visited many places in company of our members and I know one thing for sure. They are guys I'm salivating over other will run screaming from and other way around.

Second , not the best lookers indeed may have other advantages when comes to their work being enthusiastic tops, skilled bottoms and great kissers or just have great attitude, not to mention sizable and shapely endowment. As many of us learned at great expense , at times great looking guys are somehow lacking in customer service department. 

We all have a type! Keeps things interesting. 
In fact, if any of you know the adult video site private***movie   (I'm not sure on the rules with linking, but if you know you know).

The barman at Divarium was the latest 4K video (blond hair).
This site is blocked in Thailand though, a VPN would be required.  

 

[spoon]

14 hours ago, gayinpattaya said:

The barman at Divarium

The tattoo guy? 

[emiel1981]

15 hours ago, gayinpattaya said:

The barman at Divarium was the latest 4K video (blond hair).

 We want a link... 😊😉

[Olddaddy]

On 8/24/2022 at 9:09 AM, Gaybutton said:

I'm not surprised.  As I said, I've seen this tactic time after time over the years.  Your story and Min's story are merely the two latest.

The most vulnerable farang are the first-timers and those who don't read these boards.  They go to Thailand, go to the bars for the first time, are overwhelmed that a young, good looking boy seems very interested in him, is very affectionate with him, and gives him a sexual experience like he's never had before in his life.

The farang victim is convinced the boy has fallen in love with him, so now he falls in love with the boy.  The trap has been sprung.  He treats the boy like a king while he is in Thailand and promises to financially support him after he goes back to his home country. Once he's returned home, that's when the pleas for money start.  Usually it's small amounts at first and not too often.  Then the boy comes up with more and more reasons why he needs more and more money, more and more often.  No matter how much you give him, it's never enough.  It continues until the farang just can't do it anymore.  Relationship over.  The farang is heartbroken, but the boy simply moves on to his next target if he hasn't been doing that since the moment you left.

I have a feeling more than one person reading this has had exactly that happen to him and is either still in the middle of it or has learned the hard way what truly has been going on.

I remember years ago a friend from Scotland came to Pattaya.  He met a bar boy and fell for it.  He was in love.  He forgot that nobody really falls in love that quickly and no bar boy is going to fall truly in love with a farang customer in such a short time.   Sometimes people forget - a real relationship develops over time.  Falling in true love in just a few days is fine for the movies, but in real life it doesn't work that way.

There, of course, have been exceptions, but few and far between.  I was with them the day my friend left to return to Scotland.  He was staying at the Ambiance in Pattaya.  The boy was there too while my friend was waiting for the taxi to the airport arrived.  He wanted to give the boy a lot of money to go to a language school for English lessons.  I tried to talk him out of it, but failed.  I got him to at least give me the money and let me directly pay the language school.  He agreed to that and the boy acted very excited about being able to learn English.  Meanwhile, when the taxi arrived my friend and the boy had a tearful farewell.  Then the farang got into the taxi.  No sooner than the taxi rounded the corner at Second road the boy tried to get me to give him the money.  Of course I refused.  A day or two later I took him to the language school, paid the school for his lesson program, and that was that.  A few weeks later I received an Email from my friend asking me to check with the language school about the boy's progress.  It turned out that the boy did go - for a grand total of one lesson.  Then he told some story to the school, got them to refund the money, and disappeared from Pattaya.  I never saw him again.  And I'm the one who had to break that news to my friend.  He doesn't go to Thailand at all any more.

There are so many stories.  Another of my favorites was the boy who carried around 5 mobile phones,  5 different farang.

Another one - Maybe some of you remember the lady-boy manager at Corner Bar.  He was getting financial support from 2 different farang.  Then his nightmare happened.  Both of the farang showed up at the same time for a 2 week holiday.  I don't know how he managed to successfully pull it off, but he juggled things around and got away with it.  Neither farang had any idea of the existence of the other one. (I hope neither of those farang are reading this . . .)

In other words, be careful.  Think with your head, not your crotch.  And do not - repeat: do not make any promises.  The safest thing to do with the boy of your dreams is to enjoy every moment with him, but whatever you do, don't give him your contact information, especially not your Email address.  When it is time for you to go home, give him a very generous tip, thank him for a fabulous holiday, and goodbye.  Anything more than that and you too could easily fall into the trap.  If he does manage to contact you - maybe via LINE or an app - just ignore it or block him.  Do NOT respond.  He'll stop once he realizes he's not going to get any money out of you.

One of my favorite "make me cringe" things I hear farang say - "Not this boy.  He's different."  Yeah, right.

This is a good time to once again post my all time favorite quote - The Richard Burk Philosophy:

"If you want love in Thailand, rent it."

He was from Scotland?😳😳😳😳I'm shocked 

Isn't the saying ..."A Scot is very canny when it comes to money!😂😂😂

[gayinpattaya]

8 hours ago, spoon said:

The tattoo guy? 

Yeah. 

I dropped enough info here on how to find it. The website has been around for 15+ years. Most members here will have heard of it. 

[PeterRS]

With so many posts now on the matter of tips, could we have a sub-section of the Thailand board that deals exclusively with tips? It's obviously important for newbies but becomes very repetitive and boring for regular visitors and residents. This thread has a lot of useful information but most has little to do with the thread title!

[vinapu]

12 hours ago, PeterRS said:

With so many posts now on the matter of tips..... It's obviously important for newbies but becomes very repetitive and boring for regular visitors and residents. 

repetitive yes but boring ? 

no subject ever generates that much heat like money, specially other's people money.

It's why we have so many posts about tips like you noticed, we always had and in future we will.

Interest in beauty of Grand Palace or Ayuthaya ruins fades fast when somebody posts that his boy rejected generous 1000 baht offer for long time and counteroffered greedily with 10000. I don't even want to start with thinking what would happen here if that 10000 was agreed upon and paid

[vaughn]

6 hours ago, vinapu said:

I don't even want to start with thinking what would happen here if that 10000 was agreed upon and paid

There would be a riot, wigs thrown and the whole place burnt to the ground 😂

Part of me wants to find a lucky guy on my next trip to give it to just so I can nonchalantly add it to my report and see the hysterics

[vinapu]

2 hours ago, vaughn said:

Part of me wants to find a lucky guy on my next trip to give it to just so I can nonchalantly add it to my report and see the hysterics

You don't need to pay that much , just say that you paid 10000 and wait to be stoned or something 

[PeterRS]

9 hours ago, vinapu said:

repetitive yes but boring ? 

no subject ever generates that much heat like money, specially other's people money.

It's why we have so many posts about tips like you noticed, we always had and in future we will.

I don't think you read my post correctly. I know full well how important discussions on tippping are. I merely suggested there be a separate sub-section specifically for ALL posts about tips. Then it will be simple for those wanting information about tipping to look up. Presently posts about tips are spread all over the place! It was simplicity I was suggesting. Nothing more.