Why this Thai boy was offended?

[Gaybutton]

31 minutes ago, Shonen said:

If I was a mb, I would try to unionize and request payment first like in most other countries. That would give more power to the mb.

Wouldn't it be a bit difficult to unionize a technically illegal profession?  Thailand legalized marijuana.  How about legalizing prostitution along with it?  Since prostitution is such an open secret - the most open secret I've ever heard of - what's the point of keeping it illegal?

 

"Selling is legal.  Fucking is legal.  Why isn't selling fucking legal?"

-  George Carlin

[thaiophilus]

2 hours ago, Londoner said:

 "jen yai"... a cool heart.

 

I think you mean "jai yen" (ใจเย็น).

"jen yai" would be "Big Jane", and you really don't want to meet her 😀

[Shonen]

Yes, it’s jai yen, I just learned that one a week ago.

[Shonen]

42 minutes ago, Gaybutton said:

Wouldn't it be a bit difficult to unionize a technically illegal profession?  Thailand legalized marijuana.  How about legalizing prostitution along with it?  Since prostitution is such an open secret - the most open secret I've ever heard of - what's the point of keeping it illegal?

 

"Selling is legal.  Fucking is legal.  Why isn't selling fucking legal?"

-  George Carlin

Maybe not unionize, but they could all agree, just like the price is generally known for short time and long time.

[Min]

2 hours ago, Shonen said:

If I was a mb, I would try to unionize and request payment first like in most other countries. That would give more power to the mb.

We’re very lucky that’s not the case yet. But you never know.

Well, on this trip, three different boys from Pikky and Divarium, when asked how much they expect for a short time, told me 1500B then explained: the bar requires them to ask for at least 1500.

 

[vinapu]

2 hours ago, thaiophilus said:

 

 "Big Jane", and you really don't want to meet her 😀

by the way, how she is doing ?

[vinapu]

36 minutes ago, Min said:

Well, on this trip, three different boys from Pikky and Divarium, when asked how much they expect for a short time, told me 1500B then explained: the bar requires them to ask for at least 1500.

 

I had that before from different boys and different bars so it may be bar policies indeed. This is the way bars are trying to take care about their employees and prevent them from undercutting each other I guess.

If fee expected is too high nothing stops us from trying to bargain it down, the same way we are not stopped from tipping higher than quoted.

1500 , while sensible , in Pattaya is not competitive with what boys from apps may be happy with though but as we all know advantage of bar is that we know whom  we are taking home so it warrants a bit of premium.

Way boy responded to conversation  ( immediate justification ) shows that he may think fee is on higher side.

I like way Min conducted that interview, short, brief "yes or no"  without killing fun by excessive exchange. I try to do the same way each time.    

[vinapu]

3 hours ago, Shonen said:

I think the boys are sometimes victimized by cheap skates.

So after having had an orgasm, the first thought is saving money. Maybe lowering the expected tip for the boy.

If I was a mb, I would try to unionize and request payment first like in most other countries. That would give more power to the mb.

We’re very lucky that’s not the case yet. But you never know.

 

 

For sure they do and such unfortunate occurrences , hopefully very rare,  are,  so to speak , included in price.

Sometimes it's other way around too, "I do everything " claimed in bar but not really so in the room or  requesting high minimum tip in massage but providing strictly massage service with non-exisiting extras ( my case last trip ).

But those are exceptions , not rules, the same like rain in dry season.

As for requesting payment up front I'd not mind although in Thailand immediately I was suspicious as it's not how is done  (yet  ?)

[reader]

It's easy to forget that Thailand already has an organization that operates as a de facto sex workers

union.

The Sex Workers IN Group (SWING) are a sex worker organisation with drop-in spaces and offices across three of Thailand’s most infamous red-light districts: Bangkok (Patpong), Koh Samui, and Pattaya (Walking Street). As an organisation working at the local, national and regional level, SWING are recognised for their expertise in developing creative and innovative core programs and projects which focus on the health and wellbeing of sex worker communities, using a human rights framework and peer-led health promotion activities.

From the Global Network of Sex Work Projects

SWING’s work is driven by principles of community ownership and community representation, which reflect the organisation’s commitment to providing its exclusive sex worker membership with a range of peer education initiatives that build the capacity of individual members and ensure the sustainability of the network. In creating a space and voice for sex workers in society, SWING employs a strategy of empowerment through education, which aims to increase the quality of life of its members and to enhance their abilities to participate in the local and national sex worker movements as peer-leaders.

In advocating for sex workers’ rights, SWING recognises that sex workers are the most effective agents of change; however, the organisation also works to build strategic alliances with institutions and individuals who can enact cultural change within their own communities for the benefit of sex workers.

SWING are a member of the Asia Pacific Network of Sex Workers (APNSW) and are widely respected within the Asia Pacific region for the flagship work they have undertaken within male and trans* sex workers communities.

Read more about SWING

https://www.nswp.org/featured/service-workers-group-swing

 

 

[vinapu]

I like guy holding sign STOP , one with AGAINST is not bad too

[thaiophilus]

2 hours ago, vinapu said:

by the way, how she is doing ?

Looking good:

[Boy69]

8 hours ago, PeterRS said:

In my bar-going days, when differences arose between a farang and one of the bar boys, I usually found the bar boys' versions were correct. Years ago there was a waiter at Classic Boys whom I really liked. I asked if I could off him. He seemed pleased. I said I would like it if he would bottom. He said he had little experience but would try. Did I still want to off him? I did. He certainly did his best, but being a bottom was too painful for him. So we spent the off time doing other things and I had a really enjoyable time with him. He fully deserved his tip.

A few weeks later I was chatting to him in the bar. He said another English-speaking farang had offed him, again on the basis that he'd try to bottom but again after informing the farang he was inexperienced and could not guarantee it would work. The farang took him to the Suriwong Hotel short time rooms. As with me, it didn't work. The farang became angry and told him to get dressed and leave. He did not even give this very pleasant young man a tip.

I agree that there are duds amongst both some boys and some customers. But I am sure they were few and far between in those days because the boys always had the mamasans whom they could report a dud customer to. Now with the apps, things have obviously changed.

I think this waiter can save a lot of problems for himself if he just say straightforward that he can't bottom ,you are a nice person so you didn't mind but there's many nusty piece of art clients whom can react very badly when the boy actually can't be bottom for them. 

[vinapu]

double post

[vinapu]

3 minutes ago, thaiophilus said:

Looking good:

I see, but gained some weight though 

[vinapu]

7 minutes ago, Boy69 said:

I think this waiter can save a lot of problems for himself if he just say straightforward that he can't bottom ,you are a nice person so you didn't mind but there's many nasty piece of art clients whom can react very badly when the boy actually can't be bottom for them. 

issue with bottoming may be size of client, on few occasions boys, when asked told me they would bottom but only for small size

[Min]

31 minutes ago, vinapu said:

I like guy holding sign STOP , one with AGAINST is not bad too

You whoring up everything  in sight 😗

[vinapu]

4 hours ago, Min said:

You whoring up everything  in sight 😗

not everything , just guys

[PeterRS]

14 hours ago, Boy69 said:

I think this waiter can save a lot of problems for himself if he just say straightforward that he can't bottom ,you are a nice person so you didn't mind but there's many nusty piece of art clients whom can react very badly when the boy actually can't be bottom for them. 

I am sure you are correct. On the other hand that means losing an off. The young man was new to the bar and probably was only trying to be helpful. I reckon the words he used when I asked if he'd bottom were very fair. I could easily have told him I'd find another of the boys instead. But I liked him and he was extremely pleasant, more so than many boys I'd met in bars. And even though the sex was not quite what I'd hoped, I had a really good time with him. I hope he reported that other farang to the mamasan and that she then spread the word to the other Twilight bars.

[Gaybutton]

18 hours ago, Min said:

the bar requires them to ask for at least 1500.

The bar requires?  For me, that's a new one.  I've never heard of a bar "requiring" anything except its off fee.  In this context who, exactly, is "the bar" and why would the bar give a damn how much the boy gets from an off?

If it's not already obvious, I'll try to explain:  "The bar" is either the mama-san or whoever is in charge of the boys.  "The bar requires" is because whoever is requiring it demands kickbacks - and that is likely whoever is in charge of paying the boys at the end of the month or has some other kind of hold over the boys.  If the boy is really lucky, he might get to keep half for himself.

Yet another reason why I won't take boys off from those kinds of places.

[a-447]

I think it is unreasonable to off a guy and expect him to be able to bottom if he's not used to it.

Is not something you can just do on the spot - it requires quite a bit of practice and a top who will take things slowly. Otherwise it can be very painful indeed.

But one you get used to it, it's a case of "Hello, sailor!"

[Min]

9 minutes ago, Gaybutton said:

The bar requires?  For me, that's a new one.  I've never heard of a bar "requiring" anything except its off fee.  In this context who, exactly, is "the bar" and why would the bar give a damn how much the boy gets from an off?

If it's not already obvious, I'll try to explain:  "The bar" is either the mama-san or whoever is in charge of the boys.  "The bar requires" is because whoever is requiring it demands kickbacks - and that is likely whoever is in charge of paying the boys at the end of the month or has some other kind of hold over the boys.  If the boy is really lucky, he might get to keep half for himself.

Yet another reason why I won't take boys off from those kinds of places.

It's hard to say as I usually got this through (google) translation and I also never heard of it before Covid. It seems Pikky and Divarium's owners attempt to enforce a minimum tip level (1500) to make sure their boys are not underpaid. In other words, their boys should not go with customers that offer less than 1500B for short time.

[gayinpattaya]

1 minute ago, Min said:

It's hard to say as I usually got this through (google) translation and I also never heard of it before Covid. It seems Pikky and Divarium's owners attempt to enforce a minimum tip level (1500) to make sure their boys are not underpaid. In other words, their boys should not go with customers that offer less than 1500B for short time.

If little Winnie has started that at Divarium, that's crazy. Might explain why his bar has been empty every night for the last 3 weeks. Still, I would ignore him and make your own arrangements with the boy. I won't deal with people acting like "pimps". Having said that, he only has 4-5 boys working for him, and not the best lookers in Jomtien Complex by any stretch. I have a feeling it might have not been the bar, but instead something dodgy with that god awful mamasan he employs (the one that looks like a soi dog and begs for drinks).

[10tazione]

15 hours ago, vinapu said:

issue with bottoming may be size of client, on few occasions boys, when asked told me they would bottom but only for small size

If guy can't bottom for you, then you can bottom for guy. problem solved. and if nothing works, talk about knitting.

[10tazione]

18 hours ago, Min said:

Well, on this trip, three different boys from Pikky and Divarium, when asked how much they expect for a short time, told me 1500B then explained: the bar requires them to ask for at least 1500.

 

I can't conclude he said "required" from this screen shot. Sounds like a recommendation from the bar friends or mamasan, and there is nothing wrong with that.

[Min]

5 minutes ago, 10tazione said:

I can't conclude he said "required" from this screen shot. Sounds like a recommendation from the bar friends or mamasan, and there is nothing wrong with that.

"required" is actually the wording used by another boy (again through translation)