Why not retire to Thailand?

[alvnv]

4 hours ago, Olddaddy said:

Interesting you say that ,I have a work colleague who is gay and his twin brother too😳

Same here

[vinapu]

7 hours ago, scott456 said:

Perhaps the twin brother is gay too.  I heard the possibility is very high for twins.

I also know twins, both gays. Interestingly perhaps for  a while neither one realized that other was gay too, at least that's what they told me.

Fairly early though they decided to come out to their parents  and did it at the same time only to learn from them  : " we know" 

[vinapu]

4 hours ago, Londoner said:

on my first visit to Pattaya where I met other men for whom gay sex had come late to their lives. Very late in the case of one guy, who was in his late seventies when his wife died. He came straight to Pattaya where I'd see him frequently walking through Boyztown, hand -in hand with a young Thai.

I found it touching.

he did his duty and decided to have some  well deserved fun. I doubt his late wife minds

[PeterRS]

14 hours ago, Londoner said:

My generation is full of closet-dwellers.

How true! And how many of this generation married primarily to escape from the possibiliity that their gayness would be discovered? After all, it was only in 1967 that being gay - being queer, a fag, "one of them" and all the other epithets used at the time - was decriminalised in England and Wales, and in 1980 in Scotland.

I have four good friends of approximately my age who married and each had children. Three knew they were gay; the other that he was bisexual with a greater fondness for guys. The last opened up to his future wife before their marriage. She understood and realised that she would have to share him occasionally. Even so, their marriage was a happy one and they had 5 children.

The other three all divorced - eventually - and set up home with a gay man. Only one divorce was reasonably amicable. This friend was from continental Europe and had moved his family to New York for work. One evening he was on the small balcony of their apartment tormented by the dilemma of constantly lying to his wife and as constantly cheating on her. He even thought of jumping. Then reason took over. The next evening he opened up to his wife. He was then staggered when she said to him in a sympathetic way: "I know!" Theirs was the amicable divorce. He soon moved to Thailand and found a Thai boyfriend. I was once at dinner in their apartment when his two children were staying.  

Another had a very messy divorce. He had met and fallen in love with a Thai who lived in London. They also now live in Thailand, but his earlier family refuse to speak to him.

15 hours ago, Londoner said:

After all, I was forty-five before I had  gay sex.

I continue to look up to the sky and say thanks for university. In that freer evironment with its less hide-bound tradtions, I met a fellow student and instantly had the most enormous crush. I was never sure if he knew I was pursuing him but we quite quickly became very good friends even though I hadn't the slightest idea that he might also be gay.  Although it took almost a year, we did finally kiss and end up in bed. I realised then I could stay in the closet and enjoy relationships if I was careful about it. And that's how I lived before finally coming out.

[Londoner]

Your post has awakened some memories for me, not all of them pleasant. The steps I took to hide my feelings (not my actions, I hasten to add) embarrass me in recollection.

At the same time, I was aware of two associates at work who, I believed at the time, were harbouring similar secrets. They both married and had children.

I thank God for Pattaya every day of my life. To sit in Panorama of an evening a, surrounded by like-minded guys, and watch the go go dancers joking and making eyes at us on their way to work, with an evening of fun ahead...if I could choose  where to spend eternity, it would be there. 

Younger posters may find it hard to comprehend just how liberating Pattaya was to my generation, who had spent some of the best years of our lives in the closet.

[Olddaddy]

I wonder how many you came out to your parents? Or brothers & sisters?

Did any of you,? Was you then shunned back in those times?

My late father was a wharf worker,I doubt I would be alive if I had told him.

Unfortunately my brothers & sisters found out I was gay in January 2015 when I took my ex BF to my mum's funeral,they have never been in contact since .

I always remember when I was young my older brother coming home after a weekend (1970's) saying he had gone "poofter bashing" with his mates , terrible times for acceptance back then,even police participated in this in those days.

At least most of the Asian countries are more accepting if our lifestyle,if not the younger generation are.

[vinapu]

9 hours ago, Londoner said:

Younger posters may find it hard to comprehend just how liberating Pattaya was to my generation, who had spent some of the best years of our lives in the closet.

you got it right.

We shouldn't lose from eyesight fact that all freedoms we enjoy now one day may be taken away , swept by bigoted wave.

Impossible one may say, but then look at what happened with abortion rights in the USA not to mention almost complete silencing gays in Russia. While we enjoy what we have we should be vigilant

[vinapu]

9 hours ago, Olddaddy said:

Unfortunately my brothers & sisters found out I was gay in January 2015 when I took my ex BF to my mum's funeral,they have never been in contact since .

 

if it's any consolation , based on my work experience  you will be transformed from forgotten to dear brother in matter of minutes , as soon as you close your eyes for eternity

[reader]

1 hour ago, vinapu said:

...you will be transformed from forgotten to dear brother in matter of minutes , as soon as you close your eyes for eternity

"...today they're the honored dead."

 

[Olddaddy]

7 hours ago, vinapu said:

if it's any consolation , based on my work experience  you will be transformed from forgotten to dear brother in matter of minutes , as soon as you close your eyes for eternity

How true 🤣

[Ruthrieston]

I grew up in a small city in Scotland, and my brother, who was five years older than me, was also gay, but rather than helping or supporting me through the bad times he made it worse for me. He got married and had two children, while still being even more camp than me. When I came out to my parents in my mid twenties as I was leaving Scotland for the joys of London, my mother's only response was to ask "What about your brother?", to which my only response was "ask him dear". I last saw my brother at our mother's funeral more than twenty years ago. I still hate him for all he did to me. In my teenage years I tried to kill myself three times, once with a paracetamol overdose that nearly worked. I am now in my mid sixties and have lived in Pattaya for eleven years and having a happy retirement after being kicked out of my job for being gay at the age of 52. Sorry for being so boring, I will shut up now.

[vinapu]

37 minutes ago, Ruthrieston said:

I grew up in a small city in Scotland, and my brother, who was five years older than me, was also gay, but rather than helping or supporting me through the bad times he made it worse for me. He got married and had two children, while still being even more camp than me. When I came out to my parents in my mid twenties as I was leaving Scotland for the joys of London, my mother's only response was to ask "What about your brother?", to which my only response was "ask him dear". I last saw my brother at our mother's funeral more than twenty years ago. I still hate him for all he did to me. In my teenage years I tried to kill myself three times, once with a paracetamol overdose that nearly worked. I am now in my mid sixties and have lived in Pattaya for eleven years and having a happy retirement after being kicked out of my job for being gay at the age of 52. Sorry for being so boring, I will shut up now.

story not boring at all, actually quite moving

I understand your tribulations ended well after all.

[zombie]

50 minutes ago, Ruthrieston said:

I grew up in a small city in Scotland, and my brother, who was five years older than me, was also gay, but rather than helping or supporting me through the bad times he made it worse for me. He got married and had two children, while still being even more camp than me. When I came out to my parents in my mid twenties as I was leaving Scotland for the joys of London, my mother's only response was to ask "What about your brother?", to which my only response was "ask him dear". I last saw my brother at our mother's funeral more than twenty years ago. I still hate him for all he did to me. In my teenage years I tried to kill myself three times, once with a paracetamol overdose that nearly worked. I am now in my mid sixties and have lived in Pattaya for eleven years and having a happy retirement after being kicked out of my job for being gay at the age of 52. Sorry for being so boring, I will shut up now.

Yes not boring: try to stay hoppy😃

[Olddaddy]

56 minutes ago, Ruthrieston said:

I grew up in a small city in Scotland, and my brother, who was five years older than me, was also gay, but rather than helping or supporting me through the bad times he made it worse for me. He got married and had two children, while still being even more camp than me. When I came out to my parents in my mid twenties as I was leaving Scotland for the joys of London, my mother's only response was to ask "What about your brother?", to which my only response was "ask him dear". I last saw my brother at our mother's funeral more than twenty years ago. I still hate him for all he did to me. In my teenage years I tried to kill myself three times, once with a paracetamol overdose that nearly worked. I am now in my mid sixties and have lived in Pattaya for eleven years and having a happy retirement after being kicked out of my job for being gay at the age of 52. Sorry for being so boring, I will shut up now.

Absolutely not boring at all 💛💙💚Respect & love to you 

[PeterRS]

1 hour ago, Ruthrieston said:

I grew up in a small city in Scotland, and my brother, who was five years older than me, was also gay, but rather than helping or supporting me through the bad times he made it worse for me. He got married and had two children, while still being even more camp than me. When I came out to my parents in my mid twenties as I was leaving Scotland for the joys of London, my mother's only response was to ask "What about your brother?", to which my only response was "ask him dear". I last saw my brother at our mother's funeral more than twenty years ago. I still hate him for all he did to me. In my teenage years I tried to kill myself three times, once with a paracetamol overdose that nearly worked. I am now in my mid sixties and have lived in Pattaya for eleven years and having a happy retirement after being kicked out of my job for being gay at the age of 52. Sorry for being so boring, I will shut up now.

Much more informative and interesting than many posts on a similar topic. Under our happy exteriors in our retirement years, I think many of us have locked at the back of our minds the torments we went through when younger, some much more than others. Looking back, I enjoyed much happiness and success, but there were times when it was really tough being gay. As a teen, the fear of being found out and what that might entail. Keeping the secret as my brother and sister went out with their girlfriends and boyfriends. The temptation to just find a nice girl and get married, to appear 'normal' no matter that this would undoubtedly eventually cause misery for both parties.

Then having found a pleasant way of adapting to my closet lifestyle there appeared on the horizon HIV/AIDS. Having just been through a couple of years of covid, few outside the gay community can surely understand these just-passed years were a mere inconvenience for most gay guys compared to the spectre of death from an act of love or just momentary passion that started little more than 40 years ago.

I was visiting Bangok quite regularly during the 1980s and early 1990s before the researchers came up with medication that would ensure we no longer faced a death sentence. Perhaps oddly Thailand had been at the forefront of condom use - not for gay sex but to encourage couples to use them to reduce family sizes. Khun Meechai, the condom king, had all but totally taken the stigma away from using condoms. In the villages, he organised condom blowing competitions, dropping water filled condoms from a height to see if any did not explode - and so on. So common did they become that condoms became known as meechais.  (His Bangkok restaurant Cabbages and Condoms is still a fun place to dine - it's just off Sukhumvit). With more Thais than foreigners making up the customers in many gogo bars, the need to wear condoms was more understood than in most Asia countries early in the pandemic. 

I always felt that prior to Bangkok becoming known as a gay sex destination, Manila with its gay clubs like Coco Banana and huge, barn-like 690 Retiro Strip with its seemingly endless stream of naked and near-naked boys attracted more foreigners. For anyone still in the closet it was first Asian paradise.

[a-447]

2 hours ago, Ruthrieston said:

Sorry for being so boring, I will shut up now.

No, it wasn't boring at all. Please continue to post about your experience.

We all have our coming out stories and for many of our generation they are unhappy and sometimes very traumatic, Fortunately, my experience was a happy one.

I grew up in Japan from age 13. In my day it was a very conservative society (and to tell the truth, nothing much seems to have changed.)

I was always fearful of being "outed" at school because Japanese boys can be vicious if they turn on someone - they've got bullying down to a fine art. So I acted macho, made crude jokes about fucking girls, commented on how sexy certain girls were - you know what I mean.

As the only foreigner most of them had ever seen, apart from in the movies, I was the constant centre of attention, especially among the girls who would pass me notes in class (at that time I couldn't read them) leave gifts for me on my desk and most disconcertingly of all, stand around me in a circle and watch me eat my lunch.

Needless to say, this caused problems between me and the other guys who were jealous of my situation. They'd be thinking, why don't the girls pay attention to me? And I'd be thinking, why don't the boys pay attention to me?  Lol.

At school we stayed in the same classroom all day and the teachers used to come to us. There was a 10 minute break in between classes to go to the toilet (and for the boys to stand in front of the mirror and preen themselves!)

One day a boy told us to make sure we all gathered in the toilet because he had something to show us - something his older brother had taught him. It was the start of our group wanking sessions between classes. Being gay, it made school more fun than any school kid could imagine. I couldn't wait to get to school every day! 

There was one boy who, for some reason, I suspected of being gay. Of course, I never approached him in case he wasn't, but as it turned out he was and it was with him that I had my first sexual experience.

Being an only child, I was extremely close to my parents so when I decided to tell them that I was gay I didn't really think it would be a big deal. So at the dinner take I simply said something along the lines of  "I think I ought to tell you that I like boys, not girls." Funnily enough, I didn't know the word "gay", I only knew the Japanese word. 

Mum got up and gave me a big hug and dad said "Can you pass me the salt, please?" or something like that. Apart from dad telling me I should keep quiet about it, there was no further discussion. They were 100% supportive.

By the time those classmates had reached the last year of school they had grown out of  their bullying ways and I felt comfortable enough to come out to them. A few decided they no longer wanted to be friends with me - no loss there- but everyone else was fine. We are still all friends even to this day and if they have a major celebration I always fly up to Japan to be with them.

The important thing is, understand the society in which you live and act accordingly. The gay life I enjoyed in Tokyo was full-on and anything I've experienced in Thailand pales into insignificance. But you don't flaunt your sexuality if you are gay. (Heteros can, and do so all the time). Almost all activity takes place behind closed doors. I say "almost" because I was regularly groped on the train during rush hour, especially when I was a student. So apart from enjoying being at school, the journey there in the morning was also fun!

OK, that's enough. Except to say I'm so lucky to have had such understanding parents. Stories here and from my Aussie gay friends about family rejection is all so sad.

[kokopelli 2]

On 8/10/2022 at 3:45 PM, scott456 said:

Perhaps the twin brother is gay too.  I heard the possibility is very high for twins.

I am a twin and gay, but my twin is straight; and a twin friend is gay but his twin in straight. Likely because we are not identical twins which means we do not share the same DNA unlike identical twins.

[Boy69]

11 minutes ago, kokopelli 2 said:

I am a twin and gay, but my twin is straight; and a twin friend is gay but his twin in straight. Likely because we are not identical twins which means we do not share the same DNA unlike identical twins.

I am not sure that identical twins share the same DNA necessarily become both gay .

[scott456]

2 hours ago, Boy69 said:

I am not sure that identical twins share the same DNA necessarily become both gay .

I am not sure which piece of DNA makes me gay.😁

[Olddaddy]

42 minutes ago, scott456 said:

I am not sure which piece of DNA makes me gay.😁

Scott , sometime ago you wrote you didn't enjoy Pattaya enough to live there and I believe you stayed one year.

May I ask you,only  if you wish to share that is and are comfortable with sharing  ,what your experience was in that one year.

 

 

 

[scott456]

1 hour ago, Olddaddy said:

Scott , sometime ago you wrote you didn't enjoy Pattaya enough to live there and I believe you stayed one year.

May I ask you,only  if you wish to share that is and are comfortable with sharing  ,what your experience was in that one year.

 

 

 

People change as they grow older.  I had a 1.5 year long stay in Thailand 7 years ago.  It was fun, but I got homesick, I think I actually prefer living in a familiar environment where I know exactly where to get things I want, and where I can communicate with anyone, and I know exactly how to get things done, and no double pricing(rent, real estate...etc) to foreigners. 

I am less horny and less adventurous now, so I think it's a good option to retire in my home in the U.S., and I have the money to enjoy a good quality life here anyway.  I can always visit Thailand, it is just a 13 hour flight away (business class).

[reader]

If there is a flip side to the anxiety and pain--and for some, wasted years of suppression--there remains the fact that many of us would have never made our way to Thailand as a way of escaping the psychic straitjacket that ruled our lives for far too long.

Irregardless of where we're from, that's the commonality that many of us here share. Younger men who grew up in a different era may have difficulty in appreciating what harm bigots can do, even when those bigots are close family members.

It's only when someone unexpectedly open up about it (and that seems to occur when the topic is about something else altogether) that we acknowledge that we're more alike than we are different. So if the forum can serve as a vehicle of catharsis, so much the better.

 

[vinapu]

1 hour ago, scott456 said:

.  I can always visit Thailand, it is just a 13 hour flight away (business class).

I wonder how long flight in economy would be?

[fedssocr]

it would certainly seem a lot longer

[floridarob]

4 hours ago, reader said:

Irregardless

Ouch, you can tell you are from Boston.....this, along with "you's guys" .....co-workers ridiculed  me to death until I stopped using them 😆