Why Do Leading US Politicians Get Asia So Wrong?

[forrestreid]

8 hours ago, Latbear4blk said:

Sign of trolling: when someone has nothing to say about the topic, and starts bitching about others' long posts.

 

A bit harsh, one mean comment in a tread does not make you a troll in my book.

 

[Latbear4blk]

1 hour ago, forrestreid said:

 

A bit harsh, one mean comment in a tread does not make you a troll in my book.

 

Watch and wait.

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Latbear4blk said:

Sign of trolling: when someone has nothing to say about the topic, and starts bitching about others' long posts

correct

another obvious troll tactic is same person posting under several different screen-names. In some cases, they are literally talking to each other 

another troll move is commenting on a long-dead controversial thread to get a reaction from other members 

basically - someone who is bored and wants to cause disruption in an anonymous & virtual setting. No real contribution - just contrarian & chaos 

[Latbear4blk]

10 minutes ago, Slvkguy said:

correct

another obvious troll tactic is same person posting under several different screen-names. In some cases, they are literally talking to each other 

another troll move is commenting on a long-dead controversial thread to get a reaction from other members 

basically - someone who is bored and wants to cause disruption in an anonymous & virtual setting. No real contribution - just contrarian & chaos 

I add one more:

Sending unfriendly private messages out of the blue, to provoke a reaction. Actually, I am falling in his game.

[PeterRS]

10 hours ago, joizy said:

I wasn't quoting the Guardian article, I was relating my own experience. I taught in Taiwan, I've had Taiwanese colleagues, Taiwanese students and a Taiwanese boyfriend.

I am sorry if I misinterpreted your post, but it certainly read as though you were quoting the Guardian article to make a point. At least we share one thing in common. I had a Taiwanese boyfriend for five years and we have still been meeting up regularly on all my quarterly visits to the island. I believe I have a pretty clear idea of how the average Taiwanese view China and what they want.

8 hours ago, forrestreid said:

I think in any democratic system winning with 57% of the vote is a pretty comprehensive win, to be fair . . .

Personally I don’t think any Taiwanese government will ever go for full, declared independence anyway, as it would bring an almost immediate invasion.

My opinion is that, of the two government on either side of the Taiwan , it is the PRC side that has done most to escalate matters over the last decade, and therefore to propagate the PRC view of individual incidents (like the Pelosi visit) is to collude with its bullying.

Much that I agree with. But if 57% voted for a party with a form of independence as its platform, that means 43% or did not agree with everything on the platform of which that form of independence was the main plank. Yes, 57% is a majority. But that surely also illustrates there were 6.23 million of the electorate who did not want the key plank on that party's platform. Am I not correct in thinking that constitutional change in the USA requires a 2/3rds majority? The people of Taiwan are very clearly divided on how to proceed. It is quite wrong to put forward the view that there is little or no opposition to a form of independence.

I realise other posters do not agree with my views. But I have not had any response to a point I made earlier and it is one I find difficult to accept. Pelosi, after making her error about congratulating Taiwan on the way it handled covid (the country's borders are still closed, for goodness sake!), basically stated that the USA would not abandon Taiwan. What precisely did she mean by that? I have stated before that the USA will not enter a war should, heaven forbid, there be serious armed conflict emanating from China. The people of America will never agree to yet another war in Asia when it is against a China that is as powerful as it now is. Laos, Vietnam and Vietnam were poor counties - and the USA still lost those wars. So what will the US do re Taiwan? If it is not prepared to go to war, why risk giving China the impression that the US is diverging from the terms of the Taiwan Relations Act? 

And surely it is also interesting that the one Asian country most dependent on the USA did not put out the red carpet for Pelosi. The President of South Korea did not even interrupt his holiday to meet her, even though it has been reported he is actually in Seoul. As most political commentators have stressed, he was not prepared to send out the wrong political signals.

[joizy]

49 minutes ago, PeterRS said:

I am sorry if I misinterpreted your post, but it certainly read as though you were quoting the Guardian article to make a point. At least we share one thing in common. I had a Taiwanese boyfriend for five years and we have still been meeting up regularly on all my quarterly visits to the island. I believe I have a pretty clear idea of how the average Taiwanese view China and what they want.

 

I don't really want to argue with you because it's clear you have strong views and know a lot about Taiwan. I hope for the people of Taiwan that this doesn't escalate. As I'm sure you know, military service is mandatory and there are constant threats from China. But it is a beautiful island, the people are very progressive and warm, and the men are hot. It also has one of the best museums in the world in my opinion. This discussion is making me want to go back. It's been a while.

[PeterRS]

2 minutes ago, joizy said:

I don't really want to argue with you because it's clear you have strong views and know a lot about Taiwan. I hope for the people of Taiwan that this doesn't escalate. As I'm sure you know, military service is mandatory and there are constant threats from China. But it is a beautiful island, the people are very progressive and warm, and the men are hot. It also has one of the best museums in the world in my opinion. This discussion is making me want to go back. It's been a while.

I also hope and pray that calmer heads will prevail. Yes, I totally agree it's a beautiful island (a few photos below from a round-the-island trip i did a few years ago), the people are warm, friendly and kind, and the men sure are hot. That's one reason I always go to a hot spring on my visits - and hot does not mean hot from the really hot pool! I think one of the reasons so many of the guys are hot is a result of that military service. Many of the guys in their 20s have great bodies.

The museum is stunning. Extaordinary that it can only show a tiny fraction of its treasures at any one time. Yet as I am sure you are aware, those treasures were actually stolen from China by Chiang Kai-shek when he fled to Taiwan. They had been crated up during the Japanese invasion of China so they could be moved around for safety. It was therefore relatively easy for Chiang to have the crates shipped to Taiwan. 

 

[PeterRS]

21 hours ago, PeterRS said:

Why should I do that? There is no regulation which states you need to read anything I write. Have you criticised other posters for lengthy posts - e.g. @reader who posts a great many longish comments from news outlets, many interesting? Your comment borders on an insult!

I wrote the above in relation to an earlier post from @kjun12. I have since received a courteous PM from him with a generous comment. I clearly overreacted in my response above and openly send apologies.

[fedssocr]

I thought the general consensus was that all of those priceless historical artifacts were ultimately saved by CKS. If they'd remained behind in China how many would have survived Mao?

[joizy]

1 hour ago, fedssocr said:

I thought the general consensus was that all of those priceless historical artifacts were ultimately saved by CKS. If they'd remained behind in China how many would have survived Mao?

Yes, that's what I've heard as well. So much was destroyed during the Cultural Revolution. Certainly much of what is in the National Museum's collection would no longer exist.

[PeterRS]

2 hours ago, fedssocr said:

I thought the general consensus was that all of those priceless historical artifacts were ultimately saved by CKS. If they'd remained behind in China how many would have survived Mao?

Most of the treasures come from The Forbidden City. When the Japanese invaded Manchuria, museum managers packed the most important and valuable items into around 20,000 crates. These spent 14 years travelling around China to keep them away from the invaders. They were moved by train, truck, ship and on the backs of porters. Following the end of World War II, the crates ended up in Nanjing before being sent back to Beijing. Not one article was destroyed.

I was incorrect in saying all the treasures ended up in Taiwan. Only three shiploads with 3,284 crates made the journey. The National Palace Museum just outside Taipei was constructed to display them. The remaining 16,176 cates were returned to Beijing where their contents remain to this day. But it is generally agreed that the Taiwan part of the collection has some of the finest artefacts.

Being mostly in the Forbidden City with its 999 Palaces (having visited three times I have no idea where most can be found), I doubt if any would have been destroyed during Mao's time. Even during the Cultural Revolution, the Forbidden City was basically out of bounds and the revolutionaries never went inside.

This site explains the journey of the artefacts rather simply.

https://multimedia.scmp.com/culture/article/2179879/treasure-odyssey-of-palace-museum/