Question for the experts on SE Asia

[Latbear4blk]

I tried to post in a more specific forum, but Gay Asia excludes Thailand, so I am posting here.

If I had only two windows to travel during the year (USA's Thanksgiving and Springbreak), resided in USA NE, and wanted to get my first try at SE Asia's charms, how would you suggest me to plan my trip?

• I should pick only one of the two windows
• I should choose one city to stay the entire week

Thank you for your wisdom!

[fedssocr]

I guess it might depend somewhat on which of the "charms" you were looking to try. But Bangkok is a good bet. It's chaotic and can be crazy but there is plenty to do. Communication is fairly easy. The tourism infrastructure is well-developed. Thanksgiving time is getting to be the nicest weather. For a first time visitor I think Thailand is typically the best option.

[PeterRS]

Agree with @fedssocr. Bangkok is a great first choice - and not just for the nighlife. The temples are magnificent and there is so much else to see in and around the city which is all so hugely different from western cities.

I used to adore Bali - but that was decades ago when the tourist invasion had hardly begun. 15 years ago it had changed so much and I felt  sadly for the worse. Yet, if you want a totally diffferent experience from Bangkok and other regional cities, I would still recommend a week there. Instead of sticking to Kuta and the hotels in the southern Nusa Dua beach area (although a trip or two to one of the island's beaches is always relaxing), immerse yourself in Balinese life and culture by staying elsewhere. Try to watch a Balinese religious festival, listen to the feint sound of different gamellin orchestras practising as you walk by the rice terraces, see the various forms of Balinese dance including the spectacular kecak dance, visit the temple in the sea at Tanah Lot, watch the sunset from the cliffs near the little temple of Ulu Watu, attend an evening shadow puppet play and just watch as the local Balinese love it, etc. 

[scott456]

Yes. If you only have one week and this is your first time, you should just go to Bangkok.  You will love it.

[traveller123]

37 minutes ago, PeterRS said:

Agree with @fedssocr. Bangkok is a great first choice - and not just for the nighlife. The temples are magnificent and there is so much else to see in and around the city which is all so hugely different from western cities.

I used to adore Bali - but that was decades ago when the tourist invasion had hardly begun. 15 years ago it had changed so much and I felt  sadly for the worse. Yet, if you want a totally diffferent experience from Bangkok and other regional cities, I would still recommend a week there. Instead of sticking to Kuta and the hotels in the southern Nusa Dua beach area (although a trip or two to one of the island's beaches is always relaxing), immerse yourself in Balinese life and culture by staying elsewhere. Try to watch a Balinese religious festival, listen to the feint sound of different gamellin orchestras practising as you walk by the rice terraces, see the various forms of Balinese dance including the spectacular kecak dance, visit the temple in the sea at Tanah Lot, watch the sunset from the cliffs near the little temple of Ulu Watu, attend an evening shadow puppet play and just watch as the local Balinese love it, etc. 

I am sure I have mentioned it before I have used a very good tour guide on Bali.

He is a gay guy in his 40,s, fluent in English and French who can arrange activities from serious hiking to cultural trips (I was with my partner and we were not interested in sexual meet ups)

@Latbear4blkIf you are interested pm me and I can give you contact details.

[scott456]

I am interested in sexual meets and night life, not into culture or nature.

[Latbear4blk]

I do enjoy exploring nature and culture, besides night life and sex. Thank you all for all the tips!

[macaroni21]

My first thought in response to the opening post was this:   To fly halfway around the globe, enduring an 18 - 20 hour flight and a 12-hour time zone difference, for only one week's vacation does not sound like a good cost-benefit equation. I don't know about you, but I have friends who need 3 - 4 days to adjust to the time zone change. Effectively, you're going to be 2 - 4 days short on account of flight time and sleep adjustment time. And then to fly all the way back....  If you can stretch your available time window, it can make a big difference.

Other thoughts:

1.  I agree with others that (for now) Bangkok is a good introduction to East Asia. In normal (non-Covid) times, I might have suggested Hong Kong or Taipei or even Shanghai, and certainly Bali would be on my shortlist too, but these are not normal times.

2.  Culture there certainly is, and there will be customs that, closer to the time, you need to ask about on this forum e.g. long trousers, slip-on shoes, touching, etc.

3.  Bangkok is a huge sprawling city with an estimated 10 - 11 million people. Traffic can be bad. Its metro system ('subway" to Americans) is not well developed and some destinations require a long walk (say, 1.5 km in heat) from the nearest station.

4. Because it is a huge sprawling city, you will need to select your hotel location with care. I recommend that you stay in the Silom-Surawong area, where the gay nightlife is. This avoid having to travel a long distance back to your hotel late at night.

5. But there are next to no "traditional" cultural sites in the Silom-Surawong area, so daytime travelling to the main sites cannot be avoided.

6.  Forget about nature. Bangkok is one of the most built-up cities. I read somewhere that it has among the lowest ratio of green spaces to paved spaces. If, however, you have an interest in sewer rats, then Bangkok is the place for you.

7.  Assuming you do not speak any Asian language, Bangkok will also be an easy introduction to Asia. There are cities that  speak more English (e.g. Singapore where English is almost universal) but in the touristy areas, you can get by without having to learn even one word of Thai.

8. Part of culture is the food. You need to know what your tolerance for spiciness is, so that you don't make a huge mistake in ordering. Perhaps you can visit some Thai, Korean or Chinese Sichuan restaurants in your home city and figure out how much you can take. Allow of course, for the fact that in the US these ethnic cuisines would often have adjusted their levels of spiciness to Americans' palate. So what counts as "very spicy" in the US is "medium-low spicy" in Thailand.

9. For me, one of the problematic unknowns when visiting a place I have never been to before is to know the tipping culture (if any). It's quite amusing to me but I have met Americans who are shocked to learn that there are countries where tipping is almost unknown. (Not in the least suggesting that you're one of them, in fact, being on this board, you're probably better travelled than your average compatriot.) But my point is, no two countries have the same tipping culture, and if you wish, a discussion on this board about Thai expectations before you leave home may be useful.

[numazu]

1 hour ago, macaroni21 said:

My first thought in response to the opening post was this:   To fly halfway around the globe, enduring an 18 - 20 hour flight and a 12-hour time zone difference, for only one week's vacation does not sound like a good cost-benefit equation. I don't know about you, but I have friends who need 3 - 4 days to adjust to the time zone change. Effectively, you're going to be 2 - 4 days short on account of flight time and sleep adjustment time. And then to fly all the way back....  If you can stretch your available time window, it can make a big difference.

Having met @Latbear4blk  a few year ago, and if his situation hasn’t changed, I’d say that his time is indeed limited to these two weeks. I’ve actually done week-long Thailand trip all the time back in the day. I’d leave Thursday night from California and get to Thailand early Saturday morning, when I then do an early (pre-arranged) early check in with the hotel (usually Crowne Plaza), and then sleep off the flight till 8 PM, then after a great shower, have dinner and then hit the bars at 9 PM, for the shows at 10:30 PM, and I’ll have a boy with me at midnight, and actually taking advantage of the still being in the USA time zone that I will have the energy to fuck all night.

Indeed, jet lag is a bitch, but it doesn’t hit me till after lunch, so I’d usually book my tours and sightseeings at 8 AM or earlier if possible. This way, I can tire myself enough to actually sleep in the afternoon, and I will have skipped the heat that usually gets more intense later in the day. Lather, rinse, repeat, until I am adjusted to the time zone. That is usually Tuesday, Wednesday time, when I can then do full-day tours, and with boy bars usually less populated on weekdays, I can opt to skip or spend time with a long time boy. Then when the weekends hits again, I’ll try to get back to the American time zone by sleeping in the afternoon again and hitting nightlife till the wee hours of the morning.

And at the night before my flight back to California, I usually don’t sleep, and just spend my few remaining baht to enjoy my threesome/foursome/my house-ful of boys till my morning flight back on Sunday beckons. The flight is usually 13+ Hours back, so I can make my adjustments then, and then I’ll arrive early to late afternoon Sunday in California, where the wear and tear of travel catches up to me, but I force myself to sleep no earlier than 8 PM so I can adjust quicker.

19 hours ago, Latbear4blk said:

I tried to post in a more specific forum, but Gay Asia excludes Thailand, so I am posting here.

If I had only two windows to travel during the year (USA's Thanksgiving and Springbreak), resided in USA NE, and wanted to get my first try at SE Asia's charms, how would you suggest me to plan my trip?

• I should pick only one of the two windows
• I should choose one city to stay the entire week

Thank you for your wisdom!

@Latbear4blk either time window is great and I think you’ll be getting to Thailand with other gringos with similar times off, and that it’ll make your trip better. I doubt it, but if your Spring Break runs through April 13, I’d suggest going during Spring Break to spend Songkran in Bangkok, since Songkran is amazing and you will need to experience it at least once in your life. I know some here hate being doused with water in inoppurtune times, but knowing you, water is your thing and you will absolutely love it!

I’d pick Bangkok as your first time city. There is enough to do culturally and boy bar wise to help you get introduced to how Thailand does Mongering. You will find that the overall cost to rent boys here will be a little bit higher than what you’re used to, but that will be offset by everything else being cheaper (food, accommodations, transpo etc). Either way, you won’t know you if you will like it until you try it. And I have a feeling that you will!

P.S. And no, I am not a paid spokesperson for TaT lol.

[reader]

4 hours ago, macaroni21 said:

6.  Forget about nature. Bangkok is one of the most built-up cities. I read somewhere that it has among the lowest ratio of green spaces to paved spaces. If, however, you have an interest in sewer rats, then Bangkok is the place for you.

I agree with all of your points with the exception of the above.

If you're staying in the Silom /Surawong area, you can walk to the city's premier park at the intersection of Rama IV and Silom roads. Lumpini Park spans 142 acres (57 hectares) and attracts thousands of visitors daily. It has all the facilities you'd imagine, including the often mentioned outdoor weight lifting area where those dedicated to acquiring hard muscle can be seen working out at all hours.

The best times to visit are early mornings and early evenings when the heat is manageable and the sun is low. There's a no admission fee.

There's a foot bridge connecting Lumpini to Benjakitti Park. There are many other large parks around the city but Lumpini remains the most celebrated.

[Latbear4blk]

5 hours ago, numazu said:

Having met @Latbear4blk  a few year ago, and if his situation hasn’t changed, I’d say that his time is indeed limited to these two weeks.

My situation has slightly changed. Starting this coming SY, I am not a classroom teacher anymore and many (not all) of my duties are tele workable. This first school year I am planning to make my regular trips to South America (we met in Brazil but I have just fallen in love with Colombia), and demonstrate to my school what a reliable distant worker I am. My last vacation in Buenos Aires already included almost 10 days of teleworking. 

Hopefully, I will feel comfortable in November 2023 or April 2024 (your recommendation makes me think that I should wait for that Spring Break) to ask them to add a few days before and after the break, when I would be in Bangkok, but working. I agree with the friends who say that such a long flight demands a window wider than 7 days to actually enjoy and scuba dive in my destination. If I am not able to make my staying longer, I will postpone my Asian expedition until retirement. 

5 hours ago, numazu said:

I’d pick Bangkok as your first time city. There is enough to do culturally and boy bar wise to help you get introduced to how Thailand does Mongering. You will find that the overall cost to rent boys here will be a little bit higher than what you’re used to, but that will be offset by everything else being cheaper (food, accommodations, transpo etc). Either way, you won’t know you if you will like it until you try it. And I have a feeling that you will!

I am aware the boys are more expensive. Plus, to be honest, the local brand of men is not my favorite. Of course I will try the boys (the two in the picture you chose are perfect for me) but my main interest is to navigate a truly alien culture.

I love traveling in South America and Europe, but they feel like home. In contrast, one of the trips I remember with the most fondness is my two weeks adventure to Morocco. Back then I could not afford many escorts and gay life was very closeted, so I did not have a lot of sex. What I did enjoy was the cultural experience, as I had never been before in a world so alien to me. 

I think SE Asia can deliver a similar experience.

[forrestreid]

I wouldn’t worry too much about the physical look of the guys is not suiting you, Latbear4blk. Like you I wouldn’t really go too much for the “look” of Asian guys, particularly pale east Asian guys like Koreans and Japanese. However I find quite a variety of guys in Bangkok. Particularly if you meet Cambodian or Burmese guys, they often have interesting darker looks, and sometimes to my eyes have quite a South American look (imho, speaking to as somebody has admittedly never been to South America!)

As the regards exploring nature and culture, you will get exotic culture coming out of your ears in Bangkok.

I have  a feeling from your previous posts that you might be quite interested in popular or street culture, if so I think an absolutely brilliant book to read before you come to Thailand for the first time is “Very Thai: Everyday Popular Culture”,  written by Philip Cornwel-Smith. As one of the reviews on Amazon says, “it is the best honest factual book on Thai culture I have ever seen”. The many photographs in at are particularly well chosen.

Is answers all those questions you are most certainly going to ask yourself after two or three days in Bangkok, like "What is the story with all those amulets on sale?" or  "Why are all the paper napkins pink?", or "What is the story with all the blind people singing into portable microphones on the street?", or "Why do so many of the drag artists in the gay bars wear “ugly face drag”? ....etc. (the last two cultural artifacts seem to be in rapid decline, though).

As regards nature, it will not be as easy to access stunning natural sites a short distance from your base if you stay in Bangkok as opposed to say, Phuket. However there are some interesting day trips such as Khai Yai National Park or  Erawan National Park where you can see a bit of the wild Thailand.

[fedssocr]

There's a follow up booked called Very Bangkok as well that is very good.

I agree that Burmese and Cambodian guys can have a bit of a different look. Lots of South Asian intermixing in those places.

Bangkok has been putting lots of work into green spaces. There are some areas of town that are surprisingly wild. 

 

[forrestreid]

Just another hint on how to read the Very Thai book.

I first saw it after I had been to Thailand two or three times, and bought it and gobbled it all up.

But if you have never visited the country, some of it may seem a bit obtuse and obscure  -"Is a whole section really needed on concrete bar furniture made to look like garishly coloured sliced-through tree trunks?" you may well be asking yourself .

 So don’t try to read it all through, flick through it and read a few chapters you’re interested in. Maybe keep at your bedside and read a few pages every night. Then leave it, and go back to read it again a week or so after you come back from Thailand. I guarantee you will find you have found a fascination with the most weird things...

And no, I dont get commission on sales!

[PeterRS]

13 hours ago, macaroni21 said:

5. But there are next to no "traditional" cultural sites in the Silom-Surawong area, so daytime travelling to the main sites cannot be avoided.

@macaroni21 makes many interesting points. But I'm not sure this one is particularly valid, the more so if a visitor is even slightly adventurous. As a start it is just a short walk to the famous Wat Hua Lamphong temple which I find one of the most visually interesting of the many dotted around the city.

 

Then the Silom/Suriwong area is very close to both Skytrain and MRT subway stations. It's now only 4 stops on the Skytrain to get to the river at Saphan Taksin. Take either the leisurely slow or the fast express public boats (both very cheap) to see Bangkok from the river (and note some of its Chinese heritage) and then arrive very close to the Grand Palace and the stunning Wat Phra Kaew and Wat Pho temples. Depending on the time of day, it's worth taking a taxi or tuk-tuk for the relatively short distance to see the famous Marble Temple (Wat Benchamabophit) with its perfectly symmetrical frontage, A short distance away is the fascinating all teak Vimanmek Mansion built by King Rama V in 1900. As with the Grand Palace complex, like many royal tourist sites there is a dress code if you wish to visit - no short pants, no sleeveless shirts revealing shoulders and no flip flops. Being main tourist sites, there will almost always be tuk-tuks nearby if you don't want to walk. Then if traffic is bad after your wanderings, the river is only about 1 km away and the express boat from Thewes pier gets you back to Saphan Taksin in something like 20 minutes. It all makes for a fascinating if perhaps tiring day trip.

[tassojunior]

I avoid that area because of the jetlag also. Even when young the returns from Hong Kong and Australia to DC were brutal, even with stops in Hawaii or California. I've decided if I go again it will be with a return west through Europe, the Middle East or Africa. (United has a new nonstop Capetown-to-DC). I can deal with the waking up at ungodly hours coming west better than the torture jetlag eastbound. Velvety says really good things about Vietnam. 

[fedssocr]

It's also easy to get to the Grand Palace/Rattanakosin area by MRT now, but the river boats are nice too. They recently added electric boats to get up and down the river as well

[Latbear4blk]

5 hours ago, tassojunior said:

I avoid that area because of the jetlag also. Even when young the returns from Hong Kong and Australia to DC were brutal, even with stops in Hawaii or California. I've decided if I go again it will be with a return west through Europe, the Middle East or Africa. (United has a new nonstop Capetown-to-DC). I can deal with the waking up at ungodly hours coming west better than the torture jetlag eastbound. Velvety says really good things about Vietnam. 

Oh, I am not planning on becoming a regular visitor. But it is region I am curious about and a culture I want to sink in at least once in my life. Ideally, I would have a first sip in the next couple of year. If it tastes sweet, I may devote a few months to the area after retiring. 

[tassojunior]

3 hours ago, Latbear4blk said:

Oh, I am not planning on becoming a regular visitor. But it is region I am curious about and a culture I want to sink in at least once in my life. Ideally, I would have a first sip in the next couple of year. If it tastes sweet, I may devote a few months to the area after retiring. 

Just mentioning from experience that long flights west are much easier jetlag-wise. And jetlag east to DC from Asia is a serious matter. When I was young it kept me in bed a week (and not the fun way). 

 

[fedssocr]

That's interesting. I never really noticed that the direction of travel made much difference. But I do usually find that the jetlag on returning home seems a bit worse, so maybe there's something to that as I usually go TPAC both ways. On the way over I typically arrive late in the evening so I can go straight to bed and wake up the next day on local time.