Air Fares to Thailand 2022

[alvnv]

QR is notorious for challenges with award seats (or, even $$ tickets) through their codeshare, OneWorld and other partners. The only exception is BA. I was able to find award seats on QR through BA quite easily when AA did not have any availability for the same dates/cities. BA and AA also have strange rules when allocating award seats for each other’s FF programs for the city pairs that they both serve.

[belkinDC]

6 minutes ago, alvnv said:

QR is notorious for challenges with award seats (or, even $$ tickets) through their codeshare, OneWorld and other partners. The only exception is BA. I was able to find award seats on QR through BA quite easily when AA did not have any availability for the same dates/cities. BA and AA also have strange rules when allocating award seats for each other’s FF programs for the city pairs that they both serve.

I'm not sure this is still the case, but at least in the past QR flights couldn't be booked online with AA. You have/had to call in (see https://upgradedpoints.com/travel/airlines/best-ways-to-book-qatar-qsuites-with-points-and-miles/, scroll down to the section on using American miles to book).

Now that Qatar is using Avios as its award inventory though, it's possible that BA would have access to flights that other, non-Avios OneWorld partners would not.

Typically partner availability is an all-or-nothing thing, but sometimes when airlines in an alliance have an especially close relationship they do make inventory available to those partners that isn't available alliance-wide. Usually when you see that though, it's because they are making the "award" available on a dynamic price basis that is a lot higher than a standard saver award. Thus for example, you'll often see very high mileage Copa tickets available through United MileagePlus where the same Copa ticket wouldn't show up at all if searching on Air Canada. Or ditto with Alaska/American having higher priced tickets that an Asia Miles agent wouldn't be able to book.

[alvnv]

Yes, a few years ago I had to call AA to book award flights on QR, but anymore it’s available online. However, there are strange rules in place when it comes to certain city pairs, e.g. there are no award seats between NYC-DOH-BKK, but there are plenty between NYC-DOH and LHR-DOH-BKK. The only options using AA between DOH and BKK is a connection through Sri Lanka. Meanwhile, award seats are available on both NYC-DOH-BKK and DOH-BKK flights using BA.

[PeterRS]

1 hour ago, belkinDC said:

In your case, likely it's either another award seat passenger canceled/changed their ticket, or their revenue projections changed such that they decided to release a partner award seat. Or it could have been the case that the first agent from Asia Miles you spoke with in your initial attempt to book just didn't know what they are doing, and the seat had been available all along.

I take all your points. I'll only again request a response to the issue about ExpertFlyer before I take out  subscription. Does it give details of mileage seats available on all airlines in a certain Alliance on a certain date or series of dates? Specifically, does it differentiate between those seats only available to loyalty members of the issuing airline before they become available to others?

As for your second point, I have been annually booking tickets (mostly business class) via Asia Miles ever since Cathay Pacific's first mileage programme Passages died. Asia Miles came into being 23 years ago with OneWorld. These have included tickets on CX, BA, AA, QR, AY, Lan Chile and others. I have a close friend who has just retired as a Board member of the airline's parent Swire Pacific. On the few occasions I have had a problem, I have referred the query to him and he has spoken to the Asia Miles management. It seems they do train their agents well and to date I have not had any major issue with them re detail. But then with his retirement and with presumably a lot of staff being rehired after covid, there is a chance I might have got a dud on my first call! Unlikely, though, because I wrote a long letter to the Manager and received a very long and detailed reply confirming QR had absolutely no business seats avaiable on any route between BKK and the UK in March when I called - or indeed on the date he wrote the email.

[belkinDC]

On 7/30/2022 at 2:15 AM, alvnv said:

Yes, a few years ago I had to call AA to book award flights on QR, but anymore it’s available online. However, there are strange rules in place when it comes to certain city pairs, e.g. there are no award seats between NYC-DOH-BKK, but there are plenty between NYC-DOH and LHR-DOH-BKK. The only options using AA between DOH and BKK is a connection through Sri Lanka. Meanwhile, award seats are available on both NYC-DOH-BKK and DOH-BKK flights using BA.

Ah I stand corrected about the booking of QR flights online with AA. Still, it may have been possible to book the flights by calling up a phone agent even if the online booking had temporarily disappeared.

Regarding NYC-DOH-BKK, that would not be allowed as a single award ticket with AA miles because their routing rules require transpacific travel between the USA and Asia (with the exception of the Indian subcontinent, in which case it must be TATL unless via Hong Kong). It doesn't make a ton of sense in cases like this, where JFK-DOH-BKK is less than a 5% differential in terms of total miles compared to say JFK-NRT-BKK. But I could understand AA frowning on say LAX-DOH-BKK rather than via HKG or NRT.
 

 

On 7/30/2022 at 2:44 AM, PeterRS said:

I take all your points. I'll only again request a response to the issue about ExpertFlyer before I take out  subscription. Does it give details of mileage seats available on all airlines in a certain Alliance on a certain date or series of dates? Specifically, does it differentiate between those seats only available to loyalty members of the issuing airline before they become available to others?

Apologies for the delay responding on this. ExpertFlyer isn't doing me any favors helping them market because their QR search capabilities are non-functional at the moment! According to their representative at FlyerTalk, it is being worked on. Still, it's possible to search their availability using other OneWorld airlines such as BA.

Generally though, they don't allow single searches that would check all airlines in a given alliance. You have to search by individual airline and route. Still, there are some exceptions in terms of airlines that aren't covered - Cathay Pacific for one (although if one is merely using Asia Miles to book award on another OneWorld airline, the data is still useful because the relevant question is whether the operating airline has released an award seat on the flight you want).

Regarding differentiation between various awards -- it depends on the airline in question but generally it allows basic searches for award seats that are open to all other airlines in an alliance. Some airlines allow you to search for additional award type inventory, such as seats that are only open to elite fliers or seats that are bookable with upgrade instruments.

ExpertFlyer offers a free five day trial to their premium service is you want to try it out. I'd recommend waiting until you have another trip to book/plan. Happy to answer any additional questions you may have about their service.

 

On 7/30/2022 at 2:44 AM, PeterRS said:

It seems they do train their agents well and to date I have not had any major issue with them re detail.

I will take your word for it - I have only booked a handful of Asia Miles awards in my life and generally didn't have issues, but I did make sure I knew that what I wanted was bookable before calling. There is one exception that comes to mind: I was returning from Brazil on AA, GRU-JFK-DCA, with the last leg being an American Eagle flight (AA's regional brand) that was "operated by Republic Airways for American Eagle". I had originally booked the itinerary with Asia Miles and was calling to make a date change. The first several agents claimed it couldn't be booked because Republic Airways wasn't part of OneWorld and they didn't have access to their award inventory (I knew this to be false; American Eagle flights are made bookable to all OneWorld partners by AA if/when they decide to release seats on them). I had to call and hang up several times before I found an agent who would do the date change - after I pointed out that it had to be possible, because they had booked that same flight for me on a different date originally.

All that to say - my main point is just that it's always a good idea to know at least as much about what an airline representative can do for you as they do before getting on the phone with them. This goes doubly so for things like irregular operations where you need to be re-accommodated on another flight due to a weather cancelation or a known future misconnect due to delay at point of departure. As soon as you learn you'll need your flights changed, figure out what's available and call them up. Don't wait in line for the airport agent to finally get to you - by which point perhaps the seats on the most optimal re-routing have already been snatched by other passengers.

 

[PeterRS]

1 hour ago, belkinDC said:

Apologies for the delay responding on this

Absolutely no need. All your points are very pertinent and will certainly help me in the future. Many thanks.

[scott456]

2 hours ago, belkinDC said:

Apologies for the delay responding on this

Apologies excepted.🤭

[fedssocr]

10 hours ago, belkinDC said:

Regarding NYC-DOH-BKK, that would not be allowed as a single award ticket with AA miles because their routing rules require transpacific travel between the USA and Asia (with the exception of the Indian subcontinent, in which case it must be TATL unless via Hong Kong). It doesn't make a ton of sense in cases like this, where JFK-DOH-BKK is less than a 5% differential in terms of total miles compared to say JFK-NRT-BKK. But I could understand AA frowning on say LAX-DOH-BKK rather than via HKG or NRT.

AA's routing rules are annoying. My recently booked IAD-DOH-BKK itinerary on QR was reservable on the AA website, but was not bookable without calling them to complete the transaction. It was pretty straightforward though. Since the booking was already in the system the AAgent just had to complete the process so it was a short call. Since it's two award it cost me 110K miles.

[belkinDC]

2 hours ago, fedssocr said:

AA's routing rules are annoying. My recently booked IAD-DOH-BKK itinerary on QR was reservable on the AA website, but was not bookable without calling them to complete the transaction. It was pretty straightforward though. Since the booking was already in the system the AAgent just had to complete the process so it was a short call. Since it's two award it cost me 110K miles.

Do you have access to a stash of Asia Miles? They would have charged 90k miles for the same ticket (I'm assuming in business class at that price with AA?). They are transfer partners with Amex, Citi and Capital One. 

I certainly value AA miles more dearly than Amex points so let me know if you ever want to make a trade 😉

[fedssocr]

I guess I never considered Asia Miles - never used that program. Thanks for that tip. I had about 100K AA and had to buy the difference to have enough for this ticket. I have a lot of Amex points and have spent most of my Citi points. I have a big stash of Avianca miles that I bought a while ago. Unfortunately they don't seem to have many available award seats these days. I'm hoping that will improve once things get more back to normal.

[belkinDC]

1 hour ago, fedssocr said:

I guess I never considered Asia Miles - never used that program. Thanks for that tip. I had about 100K AA and had to buy the difference to have enough for this ticket. I have a lot of Amex points and have spent most of my Citi points. I have a big stash of Avianca miles that I bought a while ago. Unfortunately they don't seem to have many available award seats these days. I'm hoping that will improve once things get more back to normal.

Lifemiles has a notoriously bad search engine that may be contributing to the lack of available seating you are finding if the itinerary is at all complex (2+ segments). If you can find it available on Aeroplan or another Star Alliance carrier, try searching for it segment-by-segment on Lifemiles (specifying the specific airline as well as “Star Alliance” if you don’t initially see it) and email them for a manual booking if you can find the individual flights, using the process outlined here: https://frequentmiler.com/when-lifemiles-com-shows-no-availability-try-a-manual-booking/

I imagine you’ll want to burn your Lifemiles before dipping into AmEx points, but for future travel to Bangkok one other avenue you might want to explore is ANA’s “around the world” ticket. You could fly IAD-NRT on ANA/United, NRT-BKK on ANA/Thai, BKK-FRA on Thai/Lufthansa, and FRA-IAD on Lufthansa/United all for 115,000 ANA miles in business class. https://www.ana.co.jp/en/us/amc/partner-flight-awards/around-the-world/

I love helping to put award itineraries together so feel free to DM next time you are booking a trip 😀 

[PeterRS]

@belkinDC is an invaluable asset! Just one question about an unlikely event. A friend in Australia used to fly extensively on Ansett which went bust in 2002. At the time he had almost 350,000 Ansett miles. Although Ansett was part of Star Alliance, he lost the lot. How likely is this to happen again in the 2020s if another airline goes bust?

[belkinDC]

3 minutes ago, PeterRS said:

How likely is this to happen again in the 2020s if another airline goes bust?

I wouldn't lose too much sleep over this possibility. Avianca recently declared bankruptcy and emerged from restructuring in December 2021. Frequent flyer members were unaffected throughout the process. FFP programs have matured a lot since 2002 and would likely be viewed as an asset to be preserved during the BK process because they are generally great revenue machines for the airline (in the case of Avianca especially so because they are very prolific in selling miles, as @fedssocr can attest!). Zeroing out FFP members' balances would destroy a lot of intangible "goodwill" value for a creditor -- likely much more so than whatever the book value of the miles' liability.

That said - anything is possible of course! Don't build up hundreds of thousands of miles with an airline without any particular redemption plan and remain oblivious to their financial fortunes...

One other possibility though is mergers/acquisitions. It looks like Asiana Airlines is going to be acquired by Korean Air. Asiana is currently a Star Alliance member and has some of the best deals in the miles game -- for example, 35,000 miles one-way between the US and Brazil in business class. I have about 70,000 miles with them that I'm looking for opportunities to use on Brazil tickets before the merger goes through, because I imagine they will be converted to Korean (SkyTeam) miles at some point.