Min's tidbits about my Thailand and Vietnam experiences

[colmx]

3 minutes ago, Min said:

So the one I thought was the manager is actually the owner, and Mena is the mamasan who often helped me with offing a boy (his name does strike some bell).

Mena is a good friend of mine and always steered me right. He would never deliberately not recommend a boy, but would simply say "I think you can do better" when it came to the ones that had bad feedback from customers. 

He also introduced me to a lot of Khmer guys in the club's that I would not have met through the bar... The good old days!

[macaroni21]

7 hours ago, Min said:

Feel free to ask whenever. I will repeat in this thread some tidbits I already shared about Viet MBs in various threads to make it easier for future references.

I would also be keen to learn from you about the scene in both Hanoi and HCMC, but I  would suggest that the threads - separate threads by city or type of services - be in the Gay Vietnam forum so that they will be easier to find in future and be more useful to members.

 

[spoon]

6 hours ago, colmx said:

a lot of Khmer guys in the club's that I would not have met through the bar...

What club? Am i missing something? I want a lot of khmer guys too lol

[Guest]

41 minutes ago, spoon said:

What club? Am i missing something? I want a lot of khmer guys too lol

Still Toy Boys, if I follow it correctly.    

There are plenty of Khmer guys in Pattaya, particularly on Grindr and in Jomtien Complex, including Home Bar & others.

[colmx]

2 hours ago, spoon said:

What club? Am i missing something? I want a lot of khmer guys too lol

NAB (when it was still open), Dragon, Sinlapin Issan and the early morning after hours joints like Version (or what ever was in fashion at the time)

[Min]

7 hours ago, colmx said:

NAB (when it was still open), Dragon, Sinlapin Issan and the early morning after hours joints like Version (or what ever was in fashion at the time)

I once offed a boy from Power Boy in Sunee. He was 19 years old at that time, tall (more than 1m80), lean and smooth, playing basketball in high school, so basically model materials if he gym-trained right. A couple of years later, I ran into him on Hornet. He moved to NAB but told me NAB charged a lot for both bar fine and boy fee (a few thousands each, if memory serves) so don't go there. Just contact him directly if I want to off him again.

[Min]

Watched a show in M2M. Again, enjoyed it very much. I also wanna see again the dancer, who blowed me away (figuratively) in the previous trip. He's still great, moving like a gayish ballet dancer with a lot of energy and oozing charm.

Guy is obviously not the kind of twinks I'm usually into (a bit mature and a bit big). In other words, his look is not really a turn-on for me. But somehow, I can't take my eyes off him when he performs. I even picture this crazy scene: off him and watch him dance in bed for an hour

But when he drags, the whole package looks really disturbing

Before show, I messaged a boy asking him to come and join me in M2M, and we can go to my hotel later. He replied "I don't want to go in there". I then asked if he can go to my hotel the next day, he said "Could you change hotel. I don't like Jomtien Complex" and only agreed to meet when I explained my hotel is close to but NOT in Jomtien Complex. 

This is the second time I saw this Jomtien-phobia thing. Right before Covid, a boy I had before (one of my memorable offs) turned down my offer for a repeat because that time I stayed in Zing. He made it very clear: If Jomtien Complex, I not go.

Those two boys have something in common: pretty young, gay, have a regular job and only do this to earn extra money. I can't figure out why they hate Jomtien Complex (I asked but they wouldn't say). Any thoughts?

So the next day, after an afternoon session with the boy who hates Jomtien, my boy quota for the day was met. Evening, I went to Winner Boy bar just to watch boys having fun in underwear. There were 9 boys working that night (one already got offed before I arrived) and 4 or 5 groups of customers, most of whom sat outside, only one inside with two boys. I bought drink for the first boy who approached me and we got talking. Little did I know, I got to hear his life story for the whole next hour

He's from Bangkok, 25 years old, gay, vers top, started his MB career at Kawaii go-go bar in Boyztown when he was 17 (that means he was underaged and had to, his words, "run" whenever the police knocked on the door). His met his farang (French) boyfriend, now ex-bf, when he was 19 and the other 58, and stayed in that relationship for 4 years (show me his arm tattoo with his ex's name). It sounds like it was serious as he brought the guy home to meet the family (show me pictures of the boyfriend taken with him and his mum) and they even discussed the possibility of same-sex marriage. He didn't know why they broke up but the ex now has a new boyfriend back in France (show me pictures of a cute Caucasian teen whom I would totally off with the permission of the said boyfriend). 
Note to self: try to find cute boys who used to have farang boyfriends because they speak good English.

During the course of their relationship, boyfriend rented him a room, told him to quit his go-go job and also not to let other boys stay with him. But he kept working without the other knowing because, he said, some months boyfriend only sent 10K and the room alone already cost 8K (it was a nice room), he didn't have enough money left for food and other stuff so he had to work. 

Boyfriend visited him three times each year, stayed roughly a month each. Whenever he visited, they had sex every day, sometimes 2 or 3 times a day, it was too much for him, especially because he had to bottom while prefer being a top. It looks like the boyfriend was also a bad influence on him in the way that the former drank and smoked heavily. He said he was drunk all the time whenever the French guy visited and also became a chain-smoker himself. Now he can cut down on drinking, but couldn't give up smoking despite trying.

Then he cheated and got a Thai boyfriend, who stayed with him in the same room the French rented for him. Once they video-called and the farang got glimpse of the other boyfriend, he got jealous. Next time they video-called, he made the poor lad go around the house with his phone camera, even into the toilet, to prove that there was no one else in the house

Then he cheated some more and got another farang supporter, who also sent him money every month until he died of Covid.

I asked the boy if he prefers Asians and he said "sure, any time". Without taking into consideration financial support, he would go for Asian boyfriends only. 

Anyway, back to his stories. Difficult times came with Covid. He went home to his mom for one year, then couldn't get along with her new boyfriend-cum-business-partner so he left and went back to Pattaya. Stayed in Winner Boy bar with 4 other boys for almost a year. Although his boss tried to support them as much as he could (providing accommodation, food ingredients and cookware so they can cook for themselves) and occasional customers who came to off them secretly from the closed bar, there were days he had nothing to eat or even had to pawn his cell phone to buy food. He gave a lot of credit to his boss, saying "we survived because we have a good boss".

Now he moved out and can afford to have his own room but it's still difficult. He only had one customer in the last two weeks. The current room rent + utility bills cost 2.5K, he needs around 200 for food per day and another 100 for cigarette, so roughly 12K per month to live on.

Back in Kawaii days, he said, he earned a lot of easy moneys, many days with two offs and customers were often more generous than the 1500ST/2500LT standard rate (now, he's willing to go ST for just 1000). He said he spent all that money on visiting karaoke host bars often having as many as 4 or 5 boys sit with him in one session (he's gay after all). 

So it's that funny cycle: he spent money from people who liked him on boys he liked, he used the support from his farang boyfriend to support his Thai boyfriend. His farang boyfriend f*cked him who in turns f*cked his Thai boyfriend (the so-called boy-on-boy-on-boy arrangement). 

I noticed that he talked about cheating quite nonchalantly like it was just the way of life, a fair exchange, not something morally wrong or shameful. This is the first time I digged into a Thai MB's complicated relationships with multiple partners-cum-supporters, so I don't know if this also speaks for others.

He concluded his story, saying with regret: I used to have a lot of money, but I didn't save. Now I learned how to save but I don't have much anymore.

It was 10.30 pm when I left. The bar was empty of customers except for one blond-haired farang sitting in a corner with a new boy who just showed up for work today (24 years old, nice ass, very sexy and revealing undies). They did something quietly for more than an hour, ordering several rounds of drinks and the boy later took a large tower to cover certain parts of his body (under-the-table activities under way I presume). Most boys also left (probably no hope for more customers to come). The only waiter (a chubby Thai with highlighted hairs in his mid-30s) nodded off in another corner. Boy told me he's the owner's boyfriend (who's 61, sitting outside with the only remaining boy) and they have been together for 13 years.

My soft drink was 90, boy drink was 150. I gave the boy 500 for his time. I would see him again for other activities. The boy has good genes. Despite everything he had been through, smoking, drinking, Covid and all, still look quite boyish with a lean, supple body. To a Westerner, he may look like he's still in high school who took to wearing underwear as his uniform.

[reader]

Thank you for taking to share the story of the boy’s life as he related it to you. There are many things that did not surprise me but one that made me angry. That the guy’s bf thought he was entitled to manipulate him into bottoming simply to satisfy his own needs I find despicable. There are so many great moments the guys we meet can provide as long as we treat them with respect.

I take the guys as they are because that how they take me. 
 

. 

[jason1975]

4 hours ago, Min said:

But somehow, I can't take my eyes off him when he performs. I even picture this crazy scene: off him and watch him dance in bed for an hour

I know the feeling. I have offed dancers from bar and I asked them to dance in hotel room for me!

[jason1975]

Glad to read about this Pattaya guy. I think you are a really good listener @Min and I believe your patience and empathy led Pattaya guy to tell you everything!

[Min]

5 hours ago, jason1975 said:

I know the feeling. I have offed dancers from bar and I asked them to dance in hotel room for me!

Wow, I really should try this

5 hours ago, jason1975 said:

Glad to read about this Pattaya guy. I think you are a really good listener @Min and I believe your patience and empathy led Pattaya guy to tell you everything!

I do like listening to people's stories as long as they are willing to share. 

[vinapu]

19 hours ago, Min said:

my boy quota for the day was met.

.............................

He concluded his story, saying with regret: I used to have a lot of money, but I didn't save. Now I learned how to save but I don't have much anymore.

 

I did not even know there's such thing " boy quota for a day" but actually makes sense specially for financial loose cannons

Second problem is typical of boys and I don't blame them , who was supposed to teach them money management? parents living hand to mouth ?

I don't care much how they spent their money but must admit when one of boys I met and remunerated very generously admitted to having recent 13000 baht nose improvement and looked at me like at an idiot when I told him he can take bus to Pattaya instead of taxi  I was bit upset witch such frivolousness.

[Min]

1 hour ago, vinapu said:

Second problem is typical of boys and I don't blame them , who was supposed to teach them money management? parents living hand to mouth ?

They would all have to learn it the hard way I guess but better late than never.

[Londoner]

I was fascinated by vinapu's story. Some falangs develop a sense of ownership which is overpowering, and in the case of long-distance relationships, completely counter-productive...and ultimately destructive.

 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, vinapu said:

Second problem is typical of boys and I don't blame them , who was supposed to teach them money management? parents living hand to mouth ?

I don't care much how they spent their money but must admit when one of boys I met and remunerated very generously admitted to having recent 13000 baht nose improvement and looked at me like at an idiot when I told him he can take bus to Pattaya instead of taxi  I was bit upset witch such frivolousness.

I've also seen boys waste money.  Such as: Botox, taking taxis everywhere and buying a ridiculous number of bags. 

I've also seen careful ones.  Such as the one who used to walk straight from my room to the bank and deposit the first 1000 of his tip there.  There are others who get an awful lot of use out of their few sets of clothing, which I approve of.

As for money management, whilst being taught that helps, you don't have to learn it from parents.   There are quite a few very rich people who come from poor families (Lord Sugar etc).  

[vinapu]

3 hours ago, Londoner said:

I was fascinated by vinapu's story. Some falangs develop a sense of ownership which is overpowering, and in the case of long-distance relationships, completely counter-productive...and ultimately destructive.

 

that was Min's  story,  not mine

[jason1975]

3 hours ago, z909 said:

I've also seen careful ones.  Such as the one who used to walk straight from my room to the bank and deposit the first 1000 of his tip there.

Very sensible! I reckon he has saved enough to start a small business by now!

[fedssocr]

I recall visiting a Sunee bar on one of my first trips to Thailand many years ago. I really enjoyed spending time with one of the boys in the bar and his cute friend. I tipped them overly generously - I still recall how shocked he was by how much money I gave him at the end of the evening. When I went back the next day one was sporting an enormous knock off wristwatch that seemed to already be broken. His friend gave him quite a ribbing over it. I remember thinking it was a pretty dumb thing to waste his money on. But they were quite young, and as said they certainly didn't have any kind of money management skills. I think it's a society-wide issue though in many ways. Everyone trying to impress others with money and living beyond their means. 

These days apparently a lot of younger people in America have fallen into debt thanks to all of these online shopping apps that have "buy now, pay later" credit. Buy this t-shirt for $60 and pay it off in 6 months sort of thing.

[Min]

18 hours ago, z909 said:

I've also seen careful ones.  Such as the one who used to walk straight from my room to the bank and deposit the first 1000 of his tip there. 

Or the first 5000 if he came from Vinapu's room

[Min]

(Part 4)

To have a change of scene, I'm making a quick trip to Phnom Peng. Stayed in a centrally located hotel, close to a number of gay bars including the famous POC, Blue Chili and Heart of Darkness. My first time here so I booked a guide from Siam Roads for two night tours to gay places (tour time: 7pm to 12am, 49$ each tour).

The night I landed, I checked Christian's list of gay massages in Cambodia (https://christianpfc.blogspot.com/2021/02/gay-massage-in-cambodia-2021.html) and found that Heco, a place highly recommended by a reader of his blog, is just 10 min walk from my hotel, so decided to pay it a visit.

 

It's located right behind the Royal Palace. Staff speak very limited English. Just a simple question like "Can I see pictures of the boys?" took several attempts and still can't get across so I had to resort to Google translation (there was a farang, who looks like the owner, so I sought his help but turned out he doesn't speak English either). Finally staff showed me pictures of four guys on his phone and only one caught my eyes. "Sorry, he's out" (pointing outside) "Can you call him back?" Blank stare.

After several more attempts and with help of the other boys on duty (all three of them), I finally got that it was the guy's day off and if I want him, I can come back tomorrow. Price-wise, massage here is pricy (20$ for 60min while only 10$ in other places). According to some report, masseurs expect 20$ tip for a happy ending and 30$ (if anal sex involved).

I checked the list again and found the next nearest one is Hatha Khmer Massage in street 368 so decided to walk there. I usually prefer walking as it helps get my bearings of a new place and also complete my goal of at least 15K steps per day. When I reached the location shown on Google map half an hour later, I couldn't find the place, so I gave up and walked back to the hotel 

Fired Blued and talked to a cute boy. He asked for money, $40 for ST. I didn't really know if it was fair, but remember the tip guidelines above so counter with $30 for an hour. He okayed it. Since the boy can't meet before 5 pm and the next day I have a tour to go to at 7 pm, we scheduled it the day after.

The next evening, I started my first night tour at 7 pm. Guide first took me to the only night market in Phnom Peng. We walked and talked about the local life on the way. There's nothing much to see in the market, so I tried some street food (for future references: don't. Every stall sells the same kind of food, which doesn't taste good and is also pricy. Guide told me he was shocked when he saw the bill. Then why didn't he tell me in the first place?)

Then we booked a tuk-tuk via grab (to avoid being overcharged) back to the very place I couldn't find last night: Hatha Khmer Sauna and Massage. Guide couldn't find it either (first time for him too) so he asked for directions from a local boy. We found the place (no signage and very dark). The sauna part was already closed. Guide was like: what??? (he told me sauna would open until midnight and it wasn't even 9pm at that point). We walked over to the massage part (opened until 11pm, so it was still open when I walked there yesterday, I just didn't know how to find it) and this is an interesting part.

We were led into a dark room with a curtain. Then they opened the curtain and the scene was impressive. There were about 20 guys standing in three rows behind a glass wall, all wearing only black boxers under flattering light. Mamasan asked me to choose. Despite a large number of guys, I couldn't find anyone I like. Many are quite big with a lot of tattoos. Some do look like they just murdered some customer somewhere and then came back here to murder some more. I know a certain member in this forum would be in heaven if he were in my shoes, so I discreetly tag him @vinapu.

Guide checked his sources and found another sauna-massage place nearby. So we walked to Love Spa just a few blocks away in Street 350 only to see that customers are leaving and the place is about to close too.

Turned out they don't have a fixed closing time. They open at noon and would close when there are only a few customers left. Entry: 10K riels (2.5$). I asked staff what should be busy time and they said it depends. Sometimes, customers come and see that there are not so many people around so they leave. In other words,  it's busy when it's busy. Regarding masseurs, they only had two on duty and one look at them dashed all my hope for a massage with happy ending.

We took grab tuk-tuk back to the center (it's really cheap, less than 1.5 USD each way) and stopped by HECO first. Again checked with the staff, this time the communication went smoothly as I have Guide as translator. They had 5 boys on duty today, 2 busy with customers, 3 available. Again the pictures on the phone, and again I pointed at the same guy yesterday, and again he was not in the house and I could come back the next day. I told Guide they told me exactly the same thing yesterday, and he passed the message. Turned out: to make sure he's here when I come, I need to make a booking. But I prefer to book only when I see the boy in person, so we left for Blue Chilli, about 3 min walk away.

   

They have drag shows every Thu, Fri and Sat (closed on Sunday) at 11pm and the Cambodian mamasan (or manager/owner, I'm not sure) said their Queen troupe is the best in Cambodia. The bar was empty at that point but guy said if we come back around 10h30 pm, we would have to stand because it would be packed.

Still early (9h30pm), I decided to move to POC nearby to check them out. Earlier, they did tap me on Grindr and their profile shows this info

Boy shows means boys dancing in revealing clothes and currently they have only 3 coyote boys but staff told me they were not here tonight.

So we went in. Tiny and empty, same as Blue Chilli. 

My cocktail drink cost 4.25 USD. Guide told me all the staff here are gay and can go with customers. You buy them drink (4.5 USD, boy gets 1 USD) and talk and negotiate the price. If you want to off them, bar fine is 10 USD. Just like in Thailand. There were 4 waiters milling around, 3 in uniforms and 1 in plain white t-shirt, who looks youngest and also cutest to me.

 

I asked Guide how much boys expect for ST and LT. He said it depends on the boy, but ST should be 40-50$ while LT should be 60-100$, then added "For me, I would charge 100$". I don't know how to interpret that last comment so I just let it pass.

So I waived the boy in plain white shirt over and offered him a drink. He speaks limited English but I had Guide with me, so no problem. 22 years old, 1m80 and 69 kg (a bit big and heavy for my taste but cute face, sweet smile and very nice eyes), from a nearby province. He still lives with his parents and travels to work by his motorbike (45min each way). He just started working here for about a month (having another day job with Amazon), with a salary of 170$ plus tips. That also explains why he dressed differently from other waiters: he's still on probation.

So I asked the important question: does he go with customers and he said No, he just wants to earn tips by talking to them. He got several offers since working here but always turned them down. I looked questioningly at Guide, who earlier said all the staff here are offable.

So I sought the boy's social contact, thinking maybe it's better and more discreet if I do the negotiation via messaging. Turned out he's indeed a newbie, no Blued, Hornet or Grindr accounts, doesn't even have Line. FB and Instagram only. 

I then tried another tactic, asking Guide to ask him why he didn't want to go with customers especially when he chooses to work in such a place. He said he doesn't want to go with local customers. I was like "I'm not Cambodian. You want to go with me?" I looked at the boy, who was embarrassed and averted his eyes and in turn looked at Guide. Guide was like "Come on!" Finally he slowly nodded, then said something in Khmer to Guide. Guide told me he said yes not just because of money but also because he likes me, so it's fifty-fifty.

Then we moved to the part of price negotiation. He wanted me to make my offer first because he said he never had to deal with things like this before. Thinking about the last night deal, I said 40$ then Guide translated back (but I suspected he said something along that "everyone asks for 50, you should ask him for 50 too" line). So indeed the boy said he would go for 50$. Deal!

To make sure that nothing wasn't lost in translation, I asked again if I really am his first customer. Confirmed, adding: he wasn't even sure what he's expected to do when with a customer. At that point, I had to ask if he slept with men before. Yes, got a boyfriend but already broke up, he was a bottom in that relationship. 

The "first customer" thing reminds me of one Thai boy who worked as a waiter in the old Jupiter (when it was still at the place where Moonlight now is). I offed him from the bar and had great time. He was a newbie, just started working at Jupiter and it looked like I was his first customer, fresh and nice, did whatever I told him to do and was undemanding. Then the second time when I told him to go straight to my hotel, I could tell his behavior changed. Asked for more money, asked for taxi fares, brought me a card with some English writing (most words misspelt, including my name) :), kept asking when I would see him again. Obviously, someone told him to do all kinds of stuff to win me over and more importantly get more money. He tried, but very awkwardly  

Back to the current situation. A group of young locals entered the bar just before show time and they all know Guide. So Guide picked the youngest and most small-built among them and literally pimped him to me as another option. I smiled and asked how much his friend wanted for ST. The expected answer: 50$.

Then the POC show started a little late than 11pm, around the same time as the one in Blue Chilli. Since my waiter boy could only leave at the end of the show, we stayed to watch it. It was kinda meh.

There was only one drag queen standing out to me, whom I tipped 2$ (as I saw someone tipped the performer before her 5000 riels or 1.25$).

There was one boy dancer, who Guide said used to work with him in Toolbox before the bar closed down for good (he said Owner is back to Thailand now) and Guide appeared to pimp this one to me too. Boy is cute and I may consider if I didn't have the waiter boy first (but his dancing was all over the place, I wouldn't hire him to dance in bed).

(to be continued)

[tm_nyc]

Excellent post, thanks!  I am looking forward to go to PP in October & I am glad to get the info.

[jason1975]

Glad that they allow you to take photos and thank you for sharing them with us!

[floridarob]

Great post, I felt like I was there.....I've been there before, but no real desire to go back....Everyone I met (working) spend most of their time in Jomtien working.....Heart of Darkness I really enjoyed.

 

Too bad no murder massage guy photos to see 😉

[vinapu]

9 hours ago, Min said:

Some do look like they just murdered some customer somewhere and then came back here to murder some more. I know a certain member in this forum would be in heaven if he were in my shoes, so I discreetly tag him @vinapu.

 

You got it right!!!

next time I'm in Phnom Penh I know where my first steps will be.

Thank you for very informative  and time consuming to prepare ( I know a thing or two about that) report from PP

I like guy in white shirt and knee revealing jeans sitting with the girl in 4part picture above

[vinapu]

1 hour ago, floridarob said:

Too bad no murder massage guy photos to see 😉

+1