Min's tidbits about my Thailand and Vietnam experiences

[a-447]

33 minutes ago, kjun12 said:

 

Edited 10 minutes ago by kjun12 
I think my comment is inappropriiate.

I think so, too.

The original poster, Min, decided to write about his trip to Phnom Pehn in this thread and around 20 posts on PP were made before mine. 

Did you not see them? Or do you have another agenda?

 

[kjun12]

I tried to delete my post after I realized that what you say is totally correct.  Guess I was not successful.  My apologies.

[gayinpattaya]

6 hours ago, Min said:

I stand corrected. And also Jomtien Complex makes more sense. I guess the dancer was probably confused. He might think Pattaya means Boyztown. At any rate, I'm going to be there to support the new bar when it opens.

Right? 
I'm going to ask Doug for my own seat, so I never have to leave.

[vinapu]

1 hour ago, kjun12 said:

I tried to delete my post after I realized that what you say is totally correct.  Guess I was not successful.  My apologies.

don't worry , no harm done in my opinion, I agree that future readers of Cambodia forum would be happy to have Min's  reports related to Phnon Penh  at disposal there as they are very handy guide

[fedssocr]

I think it's probably also the case that the current young generation has lived their whole lives taking photos of themselves and their friends all day long. So in addition to possible geographical cultural differences there are also generational ones.

A tiny affection Lao boy sounds like a lot of fun.

[vinapu]

13 minutes ago, fedssocr said:

I think it's probably also the case that the current young generation has lived their whole lives taking photos of themselves and their friends all day long. So in addition to possible geographical cultural differences there are also generational ones.

A tiny affection Lao boy sounds like a lot of fun.

you are right on both cases

[Min]

On 7/1/2022 at 10:09 AM, a-447 said:

Besides, I take my sexual adventures seriously and need to be in top form!  Lol

I think Vinap also takes his sexual adventures seriously but he needs to be in bottom form.

12 hours ago, reader said:

Or in Vinapu’s case, even when he was in private room, we need to check that any devices are not active:

I agree that Vinapu should be extra careful. I would pay good money to watch that video of two brothers and their roommate if only to broaden my horizons

[Min]

4 hours ago, fedssocr said:

A tiny affection Lao boy sounds like a lot of fun.

He has the kind of personality that would thrive on host bar work.

[vinapu]

7 hours ago, Min said:

I would pay good money to watch that video of two brothers and their roommate if only to broaden my horizons

pay bit better money and organize such even for yourself 

[vinapu]

7 hours ago, Min said:

I think Vinap also takes his sexual adventures seriously but he needs to be in bottom form.

 

Thinking too much causes headache

[jason1975]

23 hours ago, Min said:

I didn't ask Tiny Lao for anyone's pictures anyway. He just volunteered to show them. But I think he meant well. In my culture and probably that of Laos too, we tend to be more lax about privacy so we might unknowingly offend people from other cultures. Likewise, his propensity for hugging may also be interpreted as personal space violation by others too.

He's an all-right guy. Great conversationalist. I won't mind taking photo with him and the other Hotmale beer bar guys. But only if they agree to go to karaoke bar with me!

[Min]

1 hour ago, jason1975 said:

But only if they agree to go to karaoke bar with me!

That still hurts right

[Min]

(part 8 )

Back in Hanoi, I encountered a similar problem with a newly opened gay massage parlor a few years ago. The owner also applied a rotation system to make sure his masseurs all have customers, so he told me I was not allowed to pick. When I turned around to leave, he immediately gave in "ok, you can choose."

So I marched into the M star shop around 8h30 pm (not sure if it's peak time though), trying to look aggressive (and failing completely). I prefaced my request with "My friend said that you guys don't allow customers to choose masseur, but..."

The masseur standing at the door cut in before I finished my sentence "You can, you can". Just like that. I had expected a fight!

So @flashbarryallen just be assertive if you need to.

Guy at the door also told me the minimum tip for normal no-sex massage is 100. Any extra services, I should discuss with the guy once we are in the room.

So I picked my boyish masseur, who's 27, paid 500B for 1-hour aroma oil massage and proceeded to the fourth floor for my session. Once inside the room, I started price discussion right away, as I usually do, to make sure no problems or misunderstanding at the end.

Unfortunately, the kid's English was extremely limited so after a while, mostly with help of Google translation, I figured that minimum tip for no-sex massage is 200 (not consistent with what Guy at the door told me). If I want him to take off his clothes while providing the service so I can touch, that would be 1000. If I want to suck his dick, that would be 1500. He's man, so he wouldn't do anything else.

1500? I repeated and just looked at him. He quickly lowered his asking price 1300 ok? I do saloh saloh massage ok?

What the hell does "saloh saloh" mean?

I asked him in a more polite language. He tried to explain in vain, then kept saying sorry for his limited English.

Looking the kid's very agitated face (he was obviously uncomfortable with haggling), I kinda felt bad so I didn't bother with further negotiation. If it means that much to him.

The massage turned out to be much better than I expected. Kid had good techniques, his touch was quite sensual and one hour flied by quickly. The only thing that irked me a bit is that he kept saying "saloh saloh" during the whole session and I still couldn't figure out what he meant.

Anyway, satisfied, I gave Kid 1500 and he bent over so low (almost to a kneeling position) to thank me, like I were Royalty or something. If only he bent over like that during the session I might have doubled my tip. 

When I walked down the stairs to the ground floor, he led the way and again kept saying "saloh saloh" and I finally got it. He meant "slow, slow," (take your time).

The next day, I started my evening in Banana Room outside. Bought a drink for one host who spoke decent English (again, he used to have an American boyfriend for about a year so no surprises here) and got some intel.

Banana Room actually has three bars. Downstairs, the outside bar serves as a beer bar (my soft drink 80B, in line with other bars in the soi), the inside bar - as a go-go (when I moved inside I had to buy a new drink at 350B). The bars downstairs close at midnight, at which they start the upstairs one that stays open until 4 am. Host showed me videos of the upstairs bar. It was pretty roomy and packed with customers, DJ station-level packed. Looks like this is the cash cow for Banana Room (owner is straight Thai with a wife) as I didn't much activities in both bars downstairs during my last two visits.

So outside downstairs, they currently have 4 hosts (3 from Laos and 1 from Myanmar, 3 gays and 1 straight). Unfortunately the cutest one, a Laotian, that I would off is straight. He had a girlfriend and wasn't allowed (by his girlfriend?) to go with customers, Host told me.

But in my previous visit, I saw that boy in underwear standing on the stage inside as a go-go boy. Sometimes, when there were too few boys inside, boss would ask him to double as a go-go so the stage would look less empty. Host explained. So does he go with customers when he's inside? Nobody knows. Or, probably, everyone knows but his girlfriend doesn't.

Inside downstairs, they have around 10 go-go staff. Host admitted that they didn't have the strongest cast in the soi and some boys never had any customers since they worked there. Then why they kept coming back? Because boss paid each 200 per night just for showing up.

Host said he himself gets paid 8000 per month and for that salary, he starts his work at 3 pm, serving in the outside downstairs bar until mid night, then moving upstairs to continue working as bartender until 4am. That means 14 hours a day for 8000 a month. It doesn't seem fair even though he can stay for free in the bar.

He said he went to bed at 6am and when he wakes up, it's time to start his work again. That grueling schedule also means he can go with customers on his off days only. He also earned tips from the bartender gig, but usually just around 100-120B per night. That was enough to cover his food expenses.

This trip, I finally come to terms with the fact that it's much harder for me to find cute twinks who can bottom in Bangkok bars than in Pattaya. I think some members in this board also draw the same conclusions (app is a different story though).

Most boys of my type in Bangkok go-gos turned out straight. Out of two dozen boys currently in Fresh Boys, only 5, according to a mamasan, who rattled off their numbers and I duly took note (No 1, 8, 14, 24 and 29) are gay and can do anything. But I like number 26 and 28, both of whom aren't willing to do much. Not even kissing or sucking, which wouldn't do for a top like me.

My last day in Bangkok before returning to Pattaya, where I usually stay for much longer, I decided to revisit Dream Boy. Mamasan, who helped me with offing a boy last time (no 75, very cute, but straight and dud in bed) and got tipped accordingly, was very happy to see me. "We have some new boys you can have a look". Another mamasan, who had seen me on and off the soil for the whole last month, said "You never go home?" Actually I did but I came back.

So I sat down, and Mamasan pointed out the new ones (they currently have between 30 and 40 boys, the most of any Bangkok go-gos, I guess). No 26 immediately caught my eyes. I also like No 45. I asked mamasan what No 26 is willing to do. He wasn't sure so he scampered off to ask, then came back with a big smile: he's gay and can do anything.

I asked for Boy to sit with me. 22, fresh from Chiang Mai, just been here for a week. 3 customers so far, not bad for one week (then he added: including you - good, he already counted me as a customer). He also advertised on Hornet but no catch yet. I asked to see his Hornet's pictures and I think I can see why: the camera must hate the kid. In fact, I saw his pictures a couple of times before but didn't think much of it. Even his body looks worse in those. In person, he got my attention right off the bat with that toned body, boyish face and that little shy smile.

I told him: you should change your pictures. Take a picture with smiles. You have a nice smile, show it so customers would find you more attractive (gosh I sound like a pimp). 

I later checked his Hornet again, kid did change his pictures but still no smiling ones.

Since he's gay and versatile (he told me he and his ex-bf back in Chiang Mai took turns to top each other), I asked him which boys currently on stage he would pick. If he also picks No 45, I don't know what I would do (maybe the obvious - as my professor in orgy-ology @vinapu would say). But he picked no 24. Damned, so no threesome this time (my other professor in modesty @reader would feel so relieved).

So like the Phnom Peng trip (reported in parts 5 to 7), my Bangkok trip also ended in a decent note. It looks like I finally had some luck with offing boys from bar. I would rank it my third best on this trip. The other two were from the apps.

My second best is an 19 years old boy from Isan, in Bangkok to study (he told me). He used to work part-time in a restaurant, lost his job due to Covid, never worked in a boy bar before. We chatted on Grindr, he seems nice and very accommodating, answering all the questions without attitude. Asked for 2000 then agreed with 1500. So I told him to come to my hotel. I didn't know that at that point jason1975 was doing more or less the same thing, in the same hotel (just different floor). I got lazy so I copied his narration

Anyway, I could tell that the boy was really into me. He was all over me the moment I closed the door. He kept giggling and holding my face with both hands, saying "you are nice". After sex, we cuddled a little and a couple of times I tried to get up (it was time for me to hit the gym), he held me back for a few more minutes. When I gave him the money (the agreed amount + 200B for travel), he said in his broken English: "I like you but not as customer" hehe, so we are like brothers with benefits now? 

My best is a boy, also from Chiang Mai, who stopped in Bangkok just for one night on his way home. He stayed in Quarter in Soil 6 a few hundreds meters from my own hotel, so we kinda "ran into" each other on Hornet. He only asked for 1000 so there was no haggling. Since he's so close, I asked to meet him in person and he, not just met, but took me directly to his room. I didn't expect this, nor did I expect the sex would be so... inspiring in a so tiny room It all happened less than 30 min from the point we started chatting.

I asked him when he would leave Bangkok, thinking for an immediate repeat the next day (I rarely do this) but he said he will fly out early the next morning. Since he said the Quarter room cost him 1500, I gave him all the pocket money I had on me at that point (1800B). I walked from my hotel to his in my shorts, sleeveless T-shirt, slippers, bringing no wallet, condoms or lubes, thinking I would just see if he really looks like his picture

(to be continued)

[vinapu]

2 hours ago, Min said:

He also advertised on Hornet but no catch yet. I asked to see his Hornet's pictures and I think I can see why: the camera must hate the kid. In fact, I saw his pictures a couple of times before but didn't think much of it. Even his body looks worse in those. In person, he got my attention right off the bat with that toned body, boyish face and that little shy smile.

 

it's precisely why I like bar / massage experience better that apps not only because,  as you said brightly ' camera hates the guy" but also because I'm bad reading people from the pictures, even those I know very well sometimes look for me as somebody else

[floridarob]

Reading these posts reminded me of a time, when returning from BKK, at US immigration said to the guy in front of me....why so many trips to Thailand,....and the obvious queen said "every now and then I want to feel like a Kennedy"....the look on the agents face was hysterical. 

[ichigo]

10 hours ago, Min said:

Out of two dozen boys currently in Fresh Boys, only 5, according to a mamasan, who rattled off their numbers and I duly took note (No 1, 8, 14, 24 and 29) are gay and can do anything.

No. 24 was trying really hard to get my attention when I was at fresh boys the other night (I'm sure he does it with all customers lol), but good to know this information for when I get back to bkk.

[Min]

4 hours ago, ichigo said:

No. 24 was trying really hard to get my attention when I was at fresh boys the other night (I'm sure he does it with all customers lol), but good to know this information for when I get back to bkk.

No 24? Is the guy with some tattoos on his chest? I think he used to look very cute, but a bit wear-and-tear now. I also remember No 1 (from Cambodia) and No 8 (from Laos) very well. The former because he got a beautiful picture on Hornet, almost like a painting (a Viet waiter told me he's quite popular and got offed almost every night). The latter because he was also in the coyote dance performance and his dance moves were comparatively good. 

[jason1975]

19 hours ago, Min said:

The next day, I started my evening in Banana Room outside. Bought a drink for one host who spoke decent English (again, he used to have an American boyfriend for about a year so no surprises here) and got some intel.

Banana Room actually has three bars. Downstairs, the outside bar serves as a beer bar (my soft drink 80B, in line with other bars in the soi), the inside bar - as a go-go (when I moved inside I had to buy a new drink at 350B). The bars downstairs close at midnight, at which they start the upstairs one that stays open until 4 am. Host showed me videos of the upstairs bar. It was pretty roomy and packed with customers, DJ station-level packed. Looks like this is the cash cow for Banana Room (owner is straight Thai with a wife) as I didn't much activities in both bars downstairs during my last two visits.

So outside downstairs, they currently have 4 hosts (3 from Laos and 1 from Myanmar, 3 gays and 1 straight). Unfortunately the cutest one, a Laotian, that I would off is straight. He had a girlfriend and wasn't allowed (by his girlfriend?) to go with customers, Host told me.

But in my previous visit, I saw that boy in underwear standing on the stage inside as a go-go boy. Sometimes, when there were too few boys inside, boss would ask him to double as a go-go so the stage would look less empty. Host explained. So does he go with customers when he's inside? Nobody knows. Or, probably, everyone knows but his girlfriend doesn't.

Inside downstairs, they have around 10 go-go staff. Host admitted that they didn't have the strongest cast in the soi and some boys never had any customers since they worked there. Then why they kept coming back? Because boss paid each 200 per night just for showing up.

Host said he himself gets paid 8000 per month and for that salary, he starts his work at 3 pm, serving in the outside downstairs bar until mid night, then moving upstairs to continue working as bartender until 4am. That means 14 hours a day for 8000 a month. It doesn't seem fair even though he can stay for free in the bar.

He said he went to bed at 6am and when he wakes up, it's time to start his work again. That grueling schedule also means he can go with customers on his off days only. He also earned tips from the bartender gig, but usually just around 100-120B per night. That was enough to cover his food expenses.

Thank you for sharing the boy's account of his life. Poor fella. 8k a month but with free accomodation seems paltry. From what I know, a barista at coffee cafe earns 15k a month in Bangkok but without free accomodation of course.

I like Banana Bar because the guys wear white underwear on stage. Interesting to note that there is a disco at midnight.

[jason1975]

30 to 40 guys at Dreamboys? That's a lot! Glad you managed to find gay guys willing to bottom. Looks like you have to be more patient for a 3some.

[Min]

On 7/4/2022 at 3:26 PM, jason1975 said:

Thank you for sharing the boy's account of his life. Poor fella. 8k a month but with free accomodation seems paltry. From what I know, a barista at coffee cafe earns 15k a month in Bangkok but without free accomodation of course.

He's also at disadvantage because he's foreigner and not legally allowed to work, so can't ask for the same pay as Thai.

Anyway, I talked to a new Thai waiter at Panorama (Pattaya) last night, who just started 4 days ago. He got paid between 4000 and 6000 per month for a shift starting from 4pm until 1 or 2 am in the morning. So my 200 tip for him is already more than his whole day's pay check. I guess they must rely on tips to survive.

On 7/4/2022 at 3:31 PM, jason1975 said:

30 to 40 guys at Dreamboys? That's a lot! 

Still, just a few are actually gay

[gerefan]

6 hours ago, Min said:

He got paid between 4000 and 6000 per month for a shift starting from 4pm until 1 or 2 am in the morning. So my 200 tip for him is already more than his whole day's pay check. I guess they must rely on tips to survive.

That is well below the minimum wage. Not heard of any barman getting that little.

Maybe he was “embellishing” his earnings to get a bigger tip!! 

[khaolakguy]

3 hours ago, gerefan said:

That is well below the minimum wage. Not heard of any barman getting that little.

Maybe he was “embellishing” his earnings to get a bigger tip!! 

Min was referring to a waiter not a barman. Expect a barman would earn a little more. I doubt that many staff in these bars are actually paid the minimum wage.

[gerefan]

Sorry, I meant waiter. Apologies. 

[Min]

(part 9)

During my 7-day stay in Boyztown this time, I had another massage session with Kiwi. It seems he had more customers recently (asked me to re-schedule twice because of schedule conflicts).

The second time, he had to go to Bowin (more than 30 km from Pattaya) in the evening to meet a Chinese customer, who's working in some construction project there, and stayed overnight. The next morning, I checked if he's back yet. "Not yet, I'm still cleaning"? Cleaning? I thought he went there for massage services. Turned out Customer gave him 3000 for massage + staying overnight and 1000 for 2-way Grab fare. After massage, it took customer less than 2 minutes to cum. Kiwi felt bad for customer, spending all that money for those 2 minutes (he's must be a result-oriented person), so he offered to stay and clean customer's whole house before he left.

Back in my room, this time he brought candles to make it, his words, "special and romantic". Wonder if anyone told him about my previous review (reported in part 1, in which I did say he brought everything but no candles).

As usual, he talked a lot during our session and I just listened to his stories, some of which were nice and warm (like what his Chinese ex did for him), some bizarre but exciting (like that time a Japanese customer hired him and 6 other MBs in Bangkok, and paid very good money, 6K each, for an orgy; but he couldn't get hard probably due to peer pressure and became the only bottom everyone else took turns to top), and some, unfortunately, saddening. 

Contrary to popular belief, many farang customers were not civil, generous, or even hygienic. Some were outright rude. 

One asked him to do foot massage, then Thai massage then oil massage, which took 4 hours in total. Then on top of that, he was asked to f*ck the customer for another half an hour (it was so hard because he had no energy left but he soldiered on), and got paid 1500 for all these. 

Or when he bent down to rub some customers' genitals, he had to hold his breath because it looked like that part hadn't been washed in a long time. 

Or this farang (who looked old, all wrinkled and overweight in his pictures) contacted him on app for a possible meeting. When being told he has to pay, the old guy said this "Your parents must be proud when they find out that you are a money boy", then boasted about how he himself could have other Thais, who are students, younger and cuter, for free.

"I don't believe him. And my parents do know about my work." Kiwi said.

I guess, we all had some very hard days.

Having moved to Zing in Jomtien Complex, I first stopped by the new B.N. bar just opened last month, 10 June to be exact. It's a few meters from The Venue, a bit off the main soi, so the location is not at all ideal (the only advantage is that it's a lot quieter here so easier to talk). Bought drinks for and talked to their new Cambodian boy (just here for a week) and also a cute skinny Thai I always saw sitting outside every time I walked by. It turns out the Thai not just a boy, he's actually the co-owner of this new bar!

27 years old, used to work in 2 go-go bars in the now-defunct Twilight soi in Bangkok, then Toy Boy in Boyztown, Pattaya right before Covid. And now, he opened a beer bar with his best friend, a Cambodian guy who looks around his age (B.N. is the initials of his name - Bass and that of the partner - Nut, if I got it right. I saw someone already interpreted the acronym as Big Nuts hehe). 

I forgot to take pictures last night so I just use an old picture from Internet. I'll come back later tonight to get a more current picture of the bar.

Each partner put in half the investment (400K for fixed assets and an extra 50K for liquors and beverages). Even if the location is not prime, they still have to pay the same rent rate as everybody else in the main soi: 20K per month for their small shop, utilities adding another 3K, and, well, 2.5K to the local police (every bar in the soi pays more or less that amount, the owner told me) so they would turn a blind eye to things like non-Thai staff and late opening hours.

For now, with that overhead, there's no way they can make a profit. They are trying to hold out and wait for the high season (or when the Chinese are allowed to come back), said the owner, who thought I'm Singaporean and who used to have a lot of Asian customers, mostly Chinese and Japanese, back in his go-go days.

The two hours I sat there, they had only 3 customers. While the Thai partner was talking to me, the Cambodian one sat listening patiently to an elderly farang, who talked slowly but incessantly for a good two hours. "Is your partner's English that good?" The Thai shaked his head "same same me, but the customer can speak Thai".

Apart from two partners slash host, they have 3 other hosts (2 Cambodians and 1 Lao). @gerefan, I read your comment so I asked them again about the basic salary. The new Cambodian host told me they received 100B from the bar but only for any night they don't have any customers (drinks or off) - so that means 3000 minimum per month (3 hosts there share an upstairs room in the Complex for about 4000).

Some customers wanted to off the Thai owner himself, but he couldn't go because he's been playing multiple roles at the bar (owner slash host slash cashier slash bartender slash legal representative when the police come - the bar registered under his name and it looks like his Cambodian buddy is a silent partner) and no one so far would wait until the bar closes to take him.

Another piece of intel: one of the bar's Cambodians, who the other day talked to Dough, the owner of Toolbox bar in Phnom Peng (mentioned in Part 7), pointed at some space near Agate's entrance and told me, Dough's new bar is gonna be there. 

On a separate note, a Thai boy from X-boys asked me to take him to watch a show in another bar because he said he never got to see any show in his life (sound like a sob story to me). Since I already moved to Jomtien, I told him to take a day off from his Boyztown bar and come to Jomtien complex, I'll take him to drink and watch a show in M2M and then we can go to my hotel. He said he can't take a day off as he has to report to work in the bar every day even if he's sick. In the case of no-show, he has to pay bar fine of 500 per day. I guess I can give him that money too, but just wonder about the situation.

A Lao boy from Boyz Boyz Boyz told me something similar. If a customer can't go to the bar to pick him up, he could only go before or after working hours (8pm to 2am) if he wants to avoid the bar fine.

On the other hand, I also see on many occasions boys in Fresh Boys and Dream Boy in Bangkok, and Winner Boy, Toy Boy and Pikky in Pattaya, didn't show up for work for all kinds of reason or while being at work, they just left to eat or went home early when there's no hope for more customers. 

The Thai boy (mentioned in part 2) told me he used to juggle two jobs with both Winner Boy in Sunee and Pikky in Boyztown. So usually weekdays, he worked in Winner Boy, and in weekends, when Boyztown was busier, he switched to Pikky.

Last time, I had to wait for an hour for a boy in Fresh Boys and he didn't show up. Mamasan told me, probably because of the heavy rain that night, while a Viet waiter told me he thought the boy just had an outside customer.

Last week, I went to Winner Boy bar twice and on both occasions had to leave because the owner who was sitting outside with one or two fully clothed boys told me they didn't have enough boys coming to work so they couldn't open the bar inside.

So it looks to me, some bars are more strict about enforcing bar fines than others to make sure that boys can't take outside customers during their working hours without generating some kind of revenue for the bar.

(to be continued)

[flashbarryallen]

@MinI can tell you must be an excellent conversationalist as you always seem to get such interesting insider information. Kiwi seems like such a treasure and I'm sad to hear he has had such negative experiences.

I don't think I'm a people pleaser, but in all encounters, especially paid, I constantly feel like I'm asking "Is this okay?" just to make sure that whoever I'm with feels respected. I could never do the type of work they do, not because I disrespect it, but I just could not handle the tricky and difficult situations many of them will experience. 

From your post, I think many people will be reaching out to contact Kiwi. He certainly sounds like someone I would love to meet. If you want to meet a similar guy who is very open and talkative, I suggest Suwit at Paradise Spa in Boyztown. @vinapuhas mentioned him several times in trip reports, and I can say that my massage with him was the best part of my Pattaya trip. He has an interesting story that I won't spoil for you.