Min's tidbits about my Thailand and Vietnam experiences

[Min]

7 hours ago, floridarob said:

Too bad no murder massage guy photos to see 😉

I don't think they would allow me to take pictures of the guys standing behind glass wall so didn't even ask.

5 hours ago, vinapu said:

I like guy in white shirt and knee revealing jeans sitting with the girl in 4part picture above

He's quite short and medium-built, appears to be the bar's regular. He talked loudly to performers during their performance and in English.

[jason1975]

The waiters are so my type. I will off them if I ever go there!

[Min]

55 minutes ago, jason1975 said:

The waiters are so my type. I will off them if I ever go there!

Most waiters belong to the twink tribes and they were smiling all the time.

[Min]

(part 5)

After 2 days, I move to A&P (Arthur & Paul) - the gay-only hotel in Phnom Peng (I have always wanted to experience such a place).

It's pricy, double the price I paid for my centrally located 4 star hotel, and also a bit far from the city center. However, moving to this hotel put me in walking distance of 15 minutes or less to a number of well-known gay sauna & massages, including Dai Khmer (st 420), Ganesh House Massage (also on st 420), Hatha Khmer Massage and Love Spa (reported in part 4), to name a few, not to mention the most famous A&P, the in-house sauna of the hotel to which its guests have free access (Guide actually wanted to take me to A&P during my first tour but I told him I'm gonna stay there anyway).

My tip: visitors to Phnom Peng should try to stay in two different locations (one near the Royal Palace, and the other near A&P). A&P itself is expensive, but I saw quite a number of decent hotels, probably cheaper, nearby when I walked around the neighborhood. That means you can stay in a cheaper place and then buy an all-day multi-entry pass to A&P for a few more bucks to use their very good facilities, including dry & wet saunas, swimming pool, big jacuzzi, and also cute and smiling staff in their underwear (it's clothing optional, mind you).

It's like when you visit Ho Chi Minh city, you should stay first in District 1 (the actual city center, especially Bui Vien area which we call phố tây - street for foreigners) and later move to District 10, Sub-district 12 (the de factor gay service center with a lot of gay massage parlors and saunas).

Back to Phnom Peng, I walked to Ganesh House Massage last night because it's very near just to have some ideas. It has the same setup as Hatha Khmer Massage: curtains, boys in underwear (white this time) but fewer boys (8 on display at 10h30pm, open till midnight). As with the case of Heco, the receptionist's English is extremely poor and Guide wasn't with me, so after a few questions trying to find more info but to no avail, I gave up and walked back. Took some pictures though.

I contacted Dai Khmer (on the same street as Ganesh) on Grindr and they send me pictures of the available 5 masseurs.

I like the one in red shirt. A taste check: @vinapu and @jason1975 which ones do you like? Jason, I think you could really use a week-end trip from Singapore to sample gay life and boys in Phnom Peng.

About finding boys on app, I only had one hook-up in the first two days so don't have much to say about it. However, it looks to me that while both Blued and Grindr have a lot of local boys, Grindr appears to have a higher rate of MBs. In Thailand, I found that Hornet works better for Pattaya, Grindr for Bangkok and Blued is pretty decent for both. Vietnam is similar to Cambodia (Blued and Grindr), but you may want to install one more app - Zalo (as popular as Line in Thailand). Usually, app boys are gonna give you their Zalo contact.

Another tip: if you are in Vietnam and try to find boys on app, beware of so-called online pimps, who also advertise their service on Blued, Grindr and Zalo. 

Many of those online pimps just scout the apps, looking for any boys who advertise themselves as MB (in Vietnam, we usually use the term call boy or cb instead), then create their own list of "models". As a result, the same boy may appear in multiple lists advertised by different pimps. In many cases, the pimps know next to nothing about their boys and can't answer your questions about the boy's sexual orientation, whether he looks like his pictures, what he would or would not do in bed, etc. 

Worse still, they also jack up the price quite a bit (for example, if you deal directly with the boy, he may ask for somewhere between 500K and 1 mil VND short time, about 700-1500B or 22-45 USD. Through a pimp, that would become 1-1.5 mil VND (and if they know that you are foreigners, they may quote the price in USD for even more money, so feel free to haggle). The more a pimp can charge you, the more commission he gets (30% of what the boy gets from you). Different pimps may quote you different prices for the same boy.

I don't mind paying the pimps their cut if they actually do a their job of giving us some helpful intel about boys. But they more often than not don't. So I follow some pimps on Zalo to see pictures of the boys and then just do the opposite: scout the apps for familiar faces You also need to know where to put your location while searching. In Hanoi, for example, search the old quarter or Hoan Kiem lake. Ho Chi Minh city (see relevant locations a few lines above). 

One MB, who's currently working in Bi sauna in District 10 in Ho Chi Minh City, told me this intriguing story. He got a customer (a Vietnamese overseas) through a pimp and travelled all the way to meet the customer in his centrally-located hotel. The agreed price is 1.2 mil (which means the pimp's cut is 400K). However, the customer, for whatever reasons, changed his mind and didn't want sex. He offered the boy 500K for "meeting and chatting".
FYI: I can confirm that the boy in question does look like his pictures, very cute in person as well, and can also do massage quite professionally. I used his service and was happy.

Boy told me he had to give the pimp his cut of 400K no matter what (he also complained that pimps don't care if the deal didn't go through, they don't care if boys get in trouble with rogue customers, would not protect the boys because they themselves also know nothing about customers), and the remaining 100K wasn't even enough to cover his two-way taxi fare. So he insisted the customer pay the agreed amount because a deal is a deal. When the customer refused, you know what the boy did?

Right there in the middle of the hotel lobby, he (kinda small-built) jumped on the guy (tall and big) and screamed in Vietnamese. I need a moment think how I should translate this into English...

"Everyone, this jerk's trying to stiff a whore! This jerk's trying to stiff a whore!" (that's how we make a scene in Vietnam).

You probably know the ending right? The customer paid up and the boy left, but damages already done.

(to be continued)

[jason1975]

1 hour ago, Min said:

I contacted Dai Khmer (on the same street as Ganesh) on Grindr and they send me pictures of the available 5 masseurs.

I like the one in red shirt. A taste check: @vinapu and @jason1975 which ones do you like? Jason, I think you could really use a week-end trip from Singapore to sample gay life and boys in Phnom Peng.

I like all 5! Maybe one weekend I shall go to Phnom Penh!

[vinapu]

32 minutes ago, jason1975 said:

I like all 5! Maybe one weekend I shall go to Phnom Penh!

don't you guys have long weekends there?

[jason1975]

1 minute ago, vinapu said:

don't you guys have long weekends there?

Yes we have some long weekends when there's public holiday on Friday or Monday. But I much prefer to go to Bangkok to chat with the HotMale beer bar waiters!

[vinapu]

1 hour ago, Min said:

 

I contacted Dai Khmer (on the same street as Ganesh) on Grindr and they send me pictures of the available 5 masseurs.

I like the one in red shirt. A taste check: @vinapu and @jason1975 which ones do you like? J

Red shirt (very kissable lips) and Tcano for the face, half- naked one for the body, one in glasses perhaps would do but hats and dark glasses are putting me off

[vinapu]

2 minutes ago, jason1975 said:

Yes we have some long weekends when there's public holiday on Friday or Monday. But I much prefer to go to Bangkok to chat with the HotMale beer bar waiters!

go with your heart desires but sometimes is good to discover new horizons. With suitable flight times ( morning out , evening return ), both Siem Reap and Phnom Penh are great long weekend destinations. And probably you don't need a visa

[kjun12]

On 6/21/2022 at 1:15 PM, Min said:

As mentioned in my first post here, I'm a long-time follower of this forum (going back around 15 years, on and off) but rarely posted anything because from the great fountain of information you guys shared, I don't think I have anything new to add. Once I started sharing (just three weeks ago), I found that I do and should have done it many years ago Although Jason1975 says I should write trip reports, I'm not really up to a full report so I just share tidbits of my Thailand trips and occasionally take a chance to give you some info about Vietnam's scene too since I'm mainly based in Vietnam.

I gonna start this tidbit thread with stories about a cheating mamasan in Toy Boys.

This week, I came directly to Pattaya from the Bangkok airport (using Nam taxi, 1000B, they gave me detailed instructions of how to find the driver: Arrival Hall, walk outside and find Entrance No 3, then look for a car plated XXYY). Staying in AIYAREE PLACE just across street from Jomtien Complex (spacious room with a double and also a single bed, which I can use for massage, a separated space with room apparatus, arm chairs and table, perfect for working remotely, swimming pool and small gym, included breakfast buffet and also 400B hotel credit for lunch/dinner in the in-house restaurant with a pretty good selection of Western and Thai food, all of these for just 1100B/night, also no problem with guests to the room)

Chatted with a boy on Blued for a massage deal. If I'm gonna meet a guy on app, I prefer if he can do massage and if I can just book for massage only first (in case the guy shows up and looks totally different from his picture). This guy seems professional with his itemized price list (shown in the picture). Some members may know him too (the one who keeps promoting his own laundry service all the time and I find it quite cute.

He showed up, and just one look at him (small-built, slim fit, smooth skin, boyish look), I know I'm gonna follow up with some after-massage services. He's indeed professional, bringing everything (water-proof tarp, towel, a selection of massage oils, relaxing music, he just forgot candles hehe). He also speaks decent English (used to have some foreign boyfriends from China and Japan), so we chatted a lot during the session.

It turns out he used to work in Toy Boys in Boyztown about 4 years ago. My first visit of the bar many years ago left quite a bad taste in my mouth. 

I was greeted by this mamasan, who is Chinese-Vietnamese and can speak Mandarin, Vietnamese, Thai and English. It felt so good to talk to someone in my mother tongue in a foreign bar, so I sought advice from him about everything.

It was my last night in Pattaya and I liked 2 boys so decided (a first for me) to off both of them. Mamasan presented me with a handwritten bill including my drink, boy drinks, bar fines, boy's tips (1500 each) and also a charge for bar's short-time room (400 per boy). He told me he collected the boy's tips in advance just for safety and that even though I don't use the short time room at the bar, they still charge for it as a rule. I guess I was really naive at the time and probably trusted the bastard too much because he's Vietnamese too. To think that I even gave him a decent tip for all of his "troubles"!

Only when I was back to my hotel and talked more with the boys who spoke rather limited English, I found out that the short-time charges were totally bullshit. If I didn't leave town the next day, I would come back to the bar and raise the issue with the management. The next time I set foot in the bar (6 months later), I simply ignored that mamasan who recognized me instantly, refusing to speak to him even for seating or bill paying (kinda passive-agressively you must think). I became friend with another mamasan from Cambodia and had no problems since then.

So back to my massage, I asked Kiwi (the boy's nickname) why he quit, and he said he didn't like the working enviroment there and especially the mamasan, who cheated him out of his money so many times. Of course, it was the same guy. Turns out he cheated the customers and he cheated the boys too. 

Kiwi told me that many times that mamasan dealt with a customer (especially someone new to town) 2000 for ST and collected the money in advance but told the boy that the customer paid 1500 so the boy got back 1400 (minus his cut of 100). Kiwi said he never thought about asking the customers how much money they actually gave the mamasan. He only found out about this almost one year later, when a customer showed him a picture of the same handwritten bill I got, and funny enough, including the same bogus short-time room charge I had.

Kiwi also said even though he gave the mamasan his standard 100 cut every time, that one still tried to steer customers away from him (because some other boys would give mamasan 200 or even 300 cut), like telling the customer who wants a bottom that Kiwi only tops (FYI he can do both but prefer bottom position), or even saying that you need to be careful because he's kinda bad boy etc. 

Kiwi, too, only found out about this through customer feedback, and his story brought back another bad memory. 

That night, when I pointed to one of the two boys I later offed, who was standing quietly like a church mouse in a corner, Mamasan did say that boy only goes with lady customers. But because he was totally my type, I waived him in and later found out he's gay and can bottom (another red flag I should've paid attention to but I was too excited to have my first threesome ever at that point). Back at the hotel, I asked him why Mamasan said he only goes with ladies, he said he didn't know and he never went with women customers before.

Back again to my massage. Job done, I'm happy with the massage, after services and also the enlightening conversation we had, and gave him 2000 even though he only asked for 1500 tops.

Also because of this, I decided to go to Boyztown that evening and visit Toy Boys again (I walked past them a couple of weeks ago and saw they just re-opened with that cheating mamasan standing at the door), just so I have a chance to blow him off again hehe.

(to be continued)

Excellent report and I really appreciate it that you took the time to write and post it.

[Min]

(part 6)
My last day in Phnom Peng, I had my second tour of gay life night with Guide. When I finished my online work around 4pm, I felt quite bored so I lined Guide to see if his dancer friend (mentioned in part 4) was available. Guide replied his friend also has daytime job (as a chef) and then a dance gig at some bar in early evening so can't meet before 9pm.

A&P, where I was staying, doesn't have a gym (excepts a few hand weights lying around) so I couldn't work out for the last two days. Since I saw Love Spa has a full gym the last time I checked it out, I decided to set off early at 6pm to make use of their facility and lined Guide to meet me there at 7pm, the starting time of our tour.

When I reached the spa, just 10 min walk from A&P, I saw so many motorbikes parked in- and outside. It looked like busy time. Indeed, there must be 100 or more people inside on a Sunday evening (doubled that of A&P on Saturday last night, which peaked at 9 pm with more than 50 customers).

The biggest problem with Love Spa was that it was too dark inside, even in the shower and toilet areas. It was very easy for you to trip in those slippery areas too. After several near fall incidents and couldn't see anything, I gave up and just worked out in the gym, waiting for Guide.

Guide was 15min late and we then moved to explore Hatha Khmer Sauna. I thought it would be next to Hatha Khmer Massage (which we visited 2 days ago) so we went back to Street 368. Still needed some time to find the place the second time around. This time I remembered to take a picture and you guys can see why. Below is the entrance with no signs.

and here is the price list

Turned out the sauna is on a different street, in fact, it is on the same street as Love Spa, just a couple of houses down. So we walked back to Street 350 and spotted the sauna quite easily this time (though still no clear signage, maybe they don't wanna attract attention).

This sauna is bigger, but has fewer customers than Love Spa next door. We reached the place around 7h40pm and there were (based on the number of parked motorbikes) about 30 to 40 customers inside. Doorman told us they open at 2.00 pm and close at 9 pm so we had a little more than 1 hour to explore it. Entry is 3$ for locals and 4$ for foreigners. Guide at first didn't want to go in because he said he didn't like such places, but I talked him into it "Come on, try it so you would have hands-on (also dicks-on) experiences to share with your future customers".

So we went in, went upstairs to the reception counter. Guide told me to keep my mask on and my mouth shut so we paid only 3$ each for entry  It worked. I like this sauna better than Love Spa. It was still dark inside, but at least I could see something. And their dark maze on the upper floor was interesting.

We separated at the entrance of the maze and the whole time I was there, my biggest scare was we ran into each other inside, didn't know it and then did the unthinkable to each other. That would be very unprofessional.

Since the poor Guide has glaucoma in early stage he can't see very clearly in broad daylight, let alone in such dark places. So it was totally up to me to make sure we stayed professional and anyone I touched wasn't Guide.

A few minutes inside, somebody touched me, I touched him back, first to make sure he wasn't Guide. Slim fit, well-developed chest (Guide skinny and no chest to write home about), flat stomach, smooth, not hairy, warm body, so I liked it. He also did the routine check to make sure I'm his type (we basically operated on the seeing-by-touching principle), then he gently guided me to a corner and we got down to business.

It was pretty intense at first, but I got bored after a while since I can't see his face. He was wearing a mask even in such a dark place, only pulled it down a bit when he needed to use his mouth. Whenever I touched his face, trying to read his facial features with my hand, he brushed it away. So I got up and left.

Later I re-united with Guide at the maze entrance, who seemed to barely able to contain his excitement (like a kindergartener in his first Disney Land trip). Obviously, he also met someone inside and couldn't wait to tell me about his adventure  Guide seemed totally forgot that he was on the clock, but I liked it. I wanted him to enjoy this tour as much as I did.

Out of three saunas I experienced on this trip, A&P was best in terms of facilities and cleanliness (I saw cockroaches in both other saunas) and probably also the look department (a lot of young gym type going there). Love Spa was cheapest (entry 2.5$, A&P: 4$,  Hatha Khmer: 3$) and also most crowded. Less attractive people might have more opportunities in Love Spa because of its total darkness. On the other hand, the main problem with A&P is that it has no dark rooms and virtually no chance for orgies (too seedy vs. too clinical, I would say). I like Hatha Khmer the most and would come back because it's a balance between the two in terms of everything. 

9pm sauna closed. Still early to visit bars, I decided to try one more Massage place, Om Massage in Rue Pasteur No. 51, close to the intersection with Street 154. We called grab tuk-tuk, but Guide entered the wrong address so we ended up in the middle of a cluster of girl massage shops who waived at us like there's no tomorrow.

I checked Google Map again and saw the right place was only 20 min walk away and I haven't yet reached my daily quota of 15K steps, so I asked Guide if it was ok to walk. No problem.

So we walked to the intersection of Rue Pasteur with St 154, and as it is now often the case, couldn't find the place. Asked local people, they gave some directions, we walked back and forth, and still couldn't see anything look like a massage shop.

I then told Guide to check online to see if there is any number to call. He found it, called the owner, who said his shop is upstairs and opened from 10am to 9pm. That means it's closed now. Still, I insisted we find the exact location for future reference.

We walked back and forth some more, finally found a girl sitting downstairs who pointed us to the right floor. Here is the picture

Again, no signage, but you can see some white towels hung out to dry near the closed door right? That's where it is, probably impossible for fist-time visitors who are not local to find (but I bet @ChristianPFC could). 

Mission accomplished, I asked Guide to suggest a good seafood restaurant nearby. He took me to a place he visited.... 8 years ago, and of course, it was no longer there. The store changed owner and they now sell something else. 

I must say Guide is cute, sweet, and fun to be with, but when it come to guiding, he still had a long way to go. It worked for me though because I prefer a local friend, whom I can talk to, tease and make joke with, to a professional guide who's only there to do his job. Just wished his sources were more updated so we didn't waste time walking around.

We then found another seafood store to have dinner, food just so so. 10h45 pm. We still have two more gay bars to try - Space bar (Phnom Peng equivalent of Silom Tawan) in Street 136 and the famous Heart of Darkness (the equivalent of DJ Station), both within walking distance.

We visited Space first, a gay bar smaller than both POC and Blue Chili (reported in part 4) with mostly muscular hosts. Here are some pictures

There were 6 boys working that night, most of whom looked straight. My soft drink 3$, Guide cocktail drink 6$. Boy drink 3.5$, but no bar fine (this will be explained later). How much the boy wants for ST and LT? Guide asked one random boy in the bar and his answer was evasive: everyone has their own rate and he wouldn't reveal his own rate (probably he can tell I am not a prospective customer).

While in Space bar, I asked Guide to check with his dancer friend. He had finished all his day and night jobs, and ready to meet. So I told him to go straight to Heart of Darkness - the final destination of our tour.

When we were about to leave, the boy in red singlet in the last picture came over to say hi. From the way he sashayed and talked, I could tell he's gay. I was right. Not only was he much more friendly than other guys, his English was also much better and he was willing to answer questions.

So basically, they are not allowed to go with customers while at work, they are only there to wait on table, drink with customers and earn tips. What they do with customers when they finish work is their own business. That's why there is no bar fine and no guidelines for ST/LT. Look like the owner (who's sitting right there, in black singlet, on the left, upper corner of the last picture, you could see his profile only) wants to make sure his bar is above board with no overt prostitution).

While Red Singlet was talking to me, he saw a hickey in my neck, touched it, teased me about it and asked who? I wasn't even sure whose it is, but most probably from Boy from Blued

Guide's friend messaged he's on the way, so I paid the bill, tipped Red Singlet, and we left for Heart of Darkness.

It was Sunday so the place was not busy at all. There were only 5 groups of customers around midnight including us (they open till 3 am). There was a group of local teenagers who sat next to our table, some of whom looked so young they were probably still in secondary school. I felt like marching over and asked: Kids, don't you have school tomorrow?

The dancer friend finally arrived. He turned out to be Mixed Vietnamese (dad Cambodian and mom Vietnamese) and speaks a little Vietnamese.

(to be continued)

[jason1975]

Wow. Phnom Penh gay places seem interesting!

[Min]

31 minutes ago, jason1975 said:

Wow. Phnom Penh gay places seem interesting!

as long as you know where to look

[vinapu]

thank you for tons of valuable PP information in your entertaining report

[fedssocr]

I was going to say "guide" sounds like a very generous description of this guy...

[spoon]

35 minutes ago, fedssocr said:

I was going to say "guide" sounds like a very generous description of this guy...

I think the guide is new. At the very least, u got yourself a young cute gay translator who will enter gay places with you, even the naked sauna hehe. I wish the guide will improve his knowledge on the scene, especially the opening and closing times as it seems that OP always seems to arrive at places near to closing or already closed. 

[vinapu]

1 hour ago, spoon said:

At the very least, u got yourself a young cute gay translator who will enter gay places with you, even the naked sauna hehe.

advantage of going places with somebody is that if boys or mamasans are too aggressive we can always say " I'm with boyfriend today". I do it a lot, nobody believes but message is absorbed. 

"I like girls ' works the same way

[Guest]

Asking the mamasan to go away usually works.   

 

 

[Min]

15 hours ago, fedssocr said:

I was going to say "guide" sounds like a very generous description of this guy...

I would say "travel companion" or escort. To me, he's just a kid, so I'm gonna cut him some slack

14 hours ago, spoon said:

I think the guide is new. At the very least, u got yourself a young cute gay translator who will enter gay places with you, even the naked sauna hehe. 

Exactly. I'm his sixth customer.

13 hours ago, vinapu said:

"I like girls ' works the same way

Or "I'm into older guys"

[spoon]

6 minutes ago, Min said:

Or "I'm into older guys"

Careful with this answer, the mamasan might offer himself lol

[Min]

7 hours ago, spoon said:

Careful with this answer, the mamasan might offer himself lol

@spoon would you sleep with the pretty Freshboy mamasans if I offer you money to do do?

[scott456]

He said he is into older guys.

[vinapu]

8 hours ago, Min said:

Or "I'm into older guys"

that won't work in my case because this is what I'm into anyways, older than 25 preferably it's why reception never bothers my guests with ID check

8 hours ago, spoon said:

Careful with this answer, the mamasan might offer himself lol

in few cases it could work, not all of them are ladyboys after all

reminds me visit to New Twilight last trip when owner , quite young and handsome  guy told us " off 2 boys,  get one free and that will be me"

as for " I like girls " answer , no one else than famous Lucy in Lucky Boys told me' I'm a girl, take me" and THAT WAS SCARY!!!!

[vinapu]

1 hour ago, Min said:

@spoon would you sleep with the pretty Freshboy mamasans if I offer you money to do do?

I don't know about spoon , but I would. Not in the same bed or even room though

[spoon]

1 hour ago, Min said:

@spoon would you sleep with the pretty Freshboy mamasans if I offer you money to do do?

Unlikely lol