Min's tidbits about my Thailand and Vietnam experiences

[Min]

As mentioned in my first post here, I'm a long-time follower of this forum (going back around 15 years, on and off) but rarely posted anything because from the great fountain of information you guys shared, I don't think I have anything new to add. Once I started sharing (just three weeks ago), I found that I do and should have done it many years ago Although Jason1975 says I should write trip reports, I'm not really up to a full report so I just share tidbits of my Thailand trips and occasionally take a chance to give you some info about Vietnam's scene too since I'm mainly based in Vietnam.

I gonna start this tidbit thread with stories about a cheating mamasan in Toy Boys.

This week, I came directly to Pattaya from the Bangkok airport (using Nam taxi, 1000B, they gave me detailed instructions of how to find the driver: Arrival Hall, walk outside and find Entrance No 3, then look for a car plated XXYY). Staying in AIYAREE PLACE just across street from Jomtien Complex (spacious room with a double and also a single bed, which I can use for massage, a separated space with room apparatus, arm chairs and table, perfect for working remotely, swimming pool and small gym, included breakfast buffet and also 400B hotel credit for lunch/dinner in the in-house restaurant with a pretty good selection of Western and Thai food, all of these for just 1100B/night, also no problem with guests to the room)

Chatted with a boy on Blued for a massage deal. If I'm gonna meet a guy on app, I prefer if he can do massage and if I can just book for massage only first (in case the guy shows up and looks totally different from his picture). This guy seems professional with his itemized price list (shown in the picture). Some members may know him too (the one who keeps promoting his own laundry service all the time and I find it quite cute.

He showed up, and just one look at him (small-built, slim fit, smooth skin, boyish look), I know I'm gonna follow up with some after-massage services. He's indeed professional, bringing everything (water-proof tarp, towel, a selection of massage oils, relaxing music, he just forgot candles hehe). He also speaks decent English (used to have some foreign boyfriends from China and Japan), so we chatted a lot during the session.

It turns out he used to work in Toy Boys in Boyztown about 4 years ago. My first visit of the bar many years ago left quite a bad taste in my mouth. 

I was greeted by this mamasan, who is Chinese-Vietnamese and can speak Mandarin, Vietnamese, Thai and English. It felt so good to talk to someone in my mother tongue in a foreign bar, so I sought advice from him about everything.

It was my last night in Pattaya and I liked 2 boys so decided (a first for me) to off both of them. Mamasan presented me with a handwritten bill including my drink, boy drinks, bar fines, boy's tips (1500 each) and also a charge for bar's short-time room (400 per boy). He told me he collected the boy's tips in advance just for safety and that even though I don't use the short time room at the bar, they still charge for it as a rule. I guess I was really naive at the time and probably trusted the bastard too much because he's Vietnamese too. To think that I even gave him a decent tip for all of his "troubles"!

Only when I was back to my hotel and talked more with the boys who spoke rather limited English, I found out that the short-time charges were totally bullshit. If I didn't leave town the next day, I would come back to the bar and raise the issue with the management. The next time I set foot in the bar (6 months later), I simply ignored that mamasan who recognized me instantly, refusing to speak to him even for seating or bill paying (kinda passive-agressively you must think). I became friend with another mamasan from Cambodia and had no problems since then.

So back to my massage, I asked Kiwi (the boy's nickname) why he quit, and he said he didn't like the working enviroment there and especially the mamasan, who cheated him out of his money so many times. Of course, it was the same guy. Turns out he cheated the customers and he cheated the boys too. 

Kiwi told me that many times that mamasan dealt with a customer (especially someone new to town) 2000 for ST and collected the money in advance but told the boy that the customer paid 1500 so the boy got back 1400 (minus his cut of 100). Kiwi said he never thought about asking the customers how much money they actually gave the mamasan. He only found out about this almost one year later, when a customer showed him a picture of the same handwritten bill I got, and funny enough, including the same bogus short-time room charge I had.

Kiwi also said even though he gave the mamasan his standard 100 cut every time, that one still tried to steer customers away from him (because some other boys would give mamasan 200 or even 300 cut), like telling the customer who wants a bottom that Kiwi only tops (FYI he can do both but prefer bottom position), or even saying that you need to be careful because he's kinda bad boy etc. 

Kiwi, too, only found out about this through customer feedback, and his story brought back another bad memory. 

That night, when I pointed to one of the two boys I later offed, who was standing quietly like a church mouse in a corner, Mamasan did say that boy only goes with lady customers. But because he was totally my type, I waived him in and later found out he's gay and can bottom (another red flag I should've paid attention to but I was too excited to have my first threesome ever at that point). Back at the hotel, I asked him why Mamasan said he only goes with ladies, he said he didn't know and he never went with women customers before.

Back again to my massage. Job done, I'm happy with the massage, after services and also the enlightening conversation we had, and gave him 2000 even though he only asked for 1500 tops.

Also because of this, I decided to go to Boyztown that evening and visit Toy Boys again (I walked past them a couple of weeks ago and saw they just re-opened with that cheating mamasan standing at the door), just so I have a chance to blow him off again hehe.

(to be continued)

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Min said:

I was greeted by this mamasan, who is Chinese-Vietnamese and can speak Mandarin, Vietnamese, Thai and English. It felt so good to talk to someone in my mother tongue in a foreign bar, so I sought advice from him about everything.

It was my last night in Pattaya and I liked 2 boys so decided (a first for me) to off both of them. Mamasan presented me with a handwritten bill including my drink, boy drinks, bar fines, boy's tips (1500 each) and also a charge for bar's short-time room (400 per boy). He told me he collected the boy's tips in advance just for safety and that even though I don't use the short time room at the bar, they still charge for it as a rule. I guess I was really naive at the time and probably trusted the bastard too much because he's Vietnamese too. To think that I even gave him a decent tip for all of his "troubles"!

Only when I was back to my hotel and talked more with the boys who spoke rather limited English, I found out that the short-time charges were totally bullshit. If I didn't leave town the next day, I would come back to the bar and raise the issue with the management. The next time I set foot in the bar (6 months later), I simply ignored that mamasan who recognized me instantly, refusing to speak to him even for seating or bill paying (kinda passive-agressively you must think). I became friend with another mamasan from Cambodia and had no problems since then.

So back to my massage, I asked Kiwi (the boy's nickname) why he quit, and he said he didn't like the working enviroment there and especially the mamasan, who cheated him out of his money so many times. Of course, it was the same guy. Turns out he cheated the customers and he cheated the boys too. 

Kiwi told me that many times that mamasan dealt with a customer (especially someone new to town) 2000 for ST and collected the money in advance but told the boy that the customer paid 1500 so the boy got back 1400 (minus his cut of 100). Kiwi said he never thought about asking the customers how much money they actually gave the mamasan. He only found out about this almost one year later, when a customer showed him a picture of the same handwritten bill I got, and funny enough, including the same bogus short-time room charge I had.

Kiwi also said even though he gave the mamasan his standard 100 cut every time, that one still tried to steer customers away from him (because some other boys would give mamasan 200 or even 300 cut), like telling the customer who wants a bottom that Kiwi only tops (FYI he can do both but prefer bottom position), or even saying that you need to be careful because he's kinda bad boy etc.

Thank you for sharing this.   All newbies should read the opening post, purely so they can avoid such scams in the unlikely event they do encounter such a problem.

I suggest that if a mamasan asks how many times you have been to Thailand, even if it's your first ever visit, say 10 times.

 

I've never had such a problem & I suspect many other members have not, although I do tend to send the mamasans away and if they quote some crazy prices, I ignore them.   

There are a few dodgy mamasans around and it's up to the customers and boys to avoid them.   I remember speaking to one lad, who said the mamasans at Classic Boys tried to charge him 2000 after he returned from a holiday.  He was working in Fresh Boys, as he'd told the crooks at Classic Boys to stick their job. 

I expect the behaviour of the mamasans that you describe is detrimental to boys earnings.    If they inflate prices for newbies, there will be fewer offs for the boys, as some customers will resist.    If all of the excess charges go to the mamasans, the boys can only lose.  

 

The one minor problem I do have in Toy Boys is they deliberately leave the check bin to one side for over 10 minutes before returning it to the customer with the change.  I guess this is in the hope that the customer leaves without taking the change.   Even when I have paid for a 250 baht drink with 1000 and am expecting 750 change.   The longer I wait for this, the less likely they are to get a tip.    I guess the gains from fools and the inebriated exceed the losses from tips.

Toy Boys is one of those bars where I have learnt to pay with exact change.   Problem solved.  

Whereas, at Winner Boys and most other good bars, you can pay with anything and the check bin comes back quickly (and correct).

 

[jason1975]

Glad that you are finally sharing, @Min Looking forward to read and learn more from your experiences.

[10tazione]

What I don't understand: Why are the owners such desinterested in how mamasans manage their bars?

If a mamasan is cheating customers and boys, it is very likely she will cheat the owner too.

[jason1975]

5 hours ago, Min said:

Back again to my massage. Job done, I'm happy with the massage, after services and also the enlightening conversation we had, and gave him 2000 even though he only asked for 1500 tops.

You have a good heart, @Min

[Olddaddy]

1 hour ago, 10tazione said:

What I don't understand: Why are the owners such desinterested in how mamasans manage their bars?

If a mamasan is cheating customers and boys, it is very likely she will cheat the owner too.

I guess as all employees do,we work when the boss is around but once their out of sight we can relax more 😂

[Min]

4 hours ago, z909 said:

I've never had such a problem & I suspect many other members have not, although I do tend to send the mamasans away and if they quote some crazy prices, I ignore them.   

There are a few dodgy mamasans around and it's up to the customers and boys to avoid them.   I remember speaking to one lad, who said the mamasans at Classic Boys tried to charge him 2000 after he returned from a holiday.  He was working in Fresh Boys, as he'd told the crooks at Classic Boys to stick their job. 

I expect the behaviour of the mamasans that you describe is detrimental to boys earnings.    If they inflate prices for newbies, there will be fewer offs for the boys, as some customers will resist.    If all of the excess charges go to the mamasans, the boys can only lose.  

I think while bogus charges from mamasans are quite rare, their playing favorites is pretty common. Last time in Lucky Boys just before Covid, I tried to off a Viet boy, who I think was one of cutest MBs I ever saw in Bangkok, mamasan (who helped me with the offing of 2 other boys in my 2 previous visits), tried everything he could to stop me to the point of blatantly badmouthing the boy.

I got to talk to the boy anyway in Vietnamese and kinda understood why. Boy was popular because of his look and his participation in the Big Cock shows, so customers kept asking for him no matter what, and he didn't care what Mamasans were thinking and more importantly, he never paid them any cuts. Two boys I offed previously are both Thai and each gave Mamasan 100B right before they left with me.

1 hour ago, 10tazione said:

What I don't understand: Why are the owners such desinterested in how mamasans manage their bars?

If a mamasan is cheating customers and boys, it is very likely she will cheat the owner too.

I had a feeling that the Toy Boy owner might be aware of this (it had been going on for years) but didn't do anything about it. Probably because he can speak Chinese and helped them deal with Chinese customers??? A year before Covid, when I didn't see him around, I asked the Cambodian mamasan friend and he said that guy lost his job because of many problems. Now it looks like he's back again.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, 10tazione said:

What I don't understand: Why are the owners such desinterested in how mamasans manage their bars?

If a mamasan is cheating customers and boys, it is very likely she will cheat the owner too.

A very good observation.

Perhaps the bar owners have not properly considered the risks of a cheating mamasan also cheating the owner ?      

However, it's common sense that one should fire any management caught cheating staff or customers, since staff and customers are critical to the success of such a business.

[gerefan]

I have been a regular customer at Toyboys for many years. It was my favourite bar. I know the owner well and also the cashier. 

However, I have never seen a Mamasan in Toyboys.

Do you mean the owner? Guy named Pat or Put, or some similar sounding name? Often hovering around and changing the music.

Or do you mean the cashier (Mr Aoff) who got promoted? As far as I know he  is still in Esaan. 

I have never seen anyone else who I would call a mamasan. 

I wouldn’t be surprised to hear about some fiddles but I have never had any problems in there and they both always gave regulars a free drink for each one bought...provided you tipped and bought to odd waiter a drink!

[Boy69]

The only interaction I have with mamasans is a polite small talk if they approach me but no more than that. if I want a boy I am just waving him to come and sit with me and if I like him I off the boy. I never used a mamasan as mediator between me and the boys because I know they tend to raise the prices,asked for tips, recommend the boys whom give them bigger share of the fee and smirch the boys they don't like so I really don't need their 'services'.

[Min]

1 hour ago, gerefan said:

I have been a regular customer at Toyboys for many years. It was my favourite bar. I know the owner well and also the cashier. 

However, I have never seen a Mamasan in Toyboys.

Do you mean the owner? Guy named Pat or Put, or some similar sounding name? Often hovering around and changing the music.

Or do you mean the cashier (Mr Aoff) who got promoted? As far as I know he  is still in Esaan. 

I have never seen anyone else who I would call a mamasan. 

That's strange. Are we even talking about the same Toy Boys? I'm talking about the one near the entrance to Boyz Town from Pattayasaisong Road, on the left.

I never met the owner, don't even know if he's Thai or farang. Might have seen the cashier but never talked to him because my bills were always handled by Mamasans or one of the waiters. I met a guy, who I believe is the manager or boss of the mamasans (Asian, tall, in his forties, looking calm and collected), on several occasions. He even asked if I enjoyed the bar.

Kiwi told me there were 3 mamasans at the time he worked there but I only talked to two of them regarding choice of boy - the Chinese-Vietnamese and the Cambodian.

[Guest]

There is only one Toy Boys & we're all talking about the same bar.

As for the source of any misunderstanding, don't count on all members using the same terminology & job titles for those staff who bring the drinks & might start asking if you want a boy.  

 

In my experience, the bar staff in Toy Boys go away when asked to, so I've never had a problem with them interfering in the process of looking for a boy. 

Whether a relatively new customer looking for assistance has the same happy experience, I have no idea. 

[gerefan]

2 hours ago, Min said:

That's strange. Are we even talking about the same Toy Boys? I'm talking about the one near the entrance to Boyz Town from Pattayasaisong Road, on the left.

 

 It sounds like the same bar. The location is correct. Large square bar with black bench seats all around? Stage in the centre?

There were usually 3 or4 waiters there. No Mamasans.

Owner was a short Thai guy about fifty.

I was in there right until it closed but obviously not since. It will be on my visit list in August! 

[vaughn]

18 hours ago, Min said:

As mentioned in my first post here, I'm a long-time follower of this forum (going back around 15 years, on and off) but rarely posted anything because from the great fountain of information you guys shared, I don't think I have anything new to add. Once I started sharing (just three weeks ago), I found that I do and should have done it many years ago Although Jason1975 says I should write trip reports, I'm not really up to a full report so I just share tidbits of my Thailand trips and occasionally take a chance to give you some info about Vietnam's scene too since I'm mainly based in Vietnam.

Looking forward to your tidbits about Thailand.

I am very interested in your knowledge of the scene in Vietnam, I'm considering a small trip in the future to HCMC and possibly Hanoi so I'll let you finish your reporting and then ask a few questions.

[Min]

7 hours ago, gerefan said:

There were usually 3 or4 waiters there. No Mamasans.

I was in there right until it closed but obviously not since. It will be on my visit list in August! 

Looks like mamasans to me are just waiters to you. And since you are a veteran and know the owner, they probably wouldn't want to approach you with boy tips, let alone try to cheat you out of money.

[vinapu]

14 hours ago, Olddaddy said:

I guess as all employees do,we work when the boss is around but once their out of sight we can relax more 😂

speak for yourself

[vinapu]

11 hours ago, Boy69 said:

The only interaction I have with mamasans is a polite small talk if they approach me but no more than that. if I want a boy I am just waving him to come and sit with me and if I like him I off the boy. I never used a mamasan as mediator between me and the boys because I know they tend to raise the prices,asked for tips, recommend the boys whom give them bigger share of the fee and smirch the boys they don't like so I really don't need their 'services'.

my thoughts and actions exactly. I use mamasans only if I need translation  (very rarely) or if I need to ask them to call guy who is absent from the bar ( even rarer and outcome is usually disappointing).

Exception is former mamasan from Screwboys ,  now at Freshboys who helped me  a lot in the past so I feel like slipping  her 50 or 100 from time to time just for breathing

[vinapu]

20 hours ago, Min said:

 

Back again to my massage. Job done, I'm happy with the massage, after services and also the enlightening conversation we had, and gave him 2000 even though he only asked for 1500 tops.

 

I like that, I believe  going a little bit over market signalized to guy he did good job and chances are lesson won't be lost on him

19 hours ago, z909 said:

 

Toy Boys is one of those bars where I have learnt to pay with exact change.  

 

 I do that in every bar, it's why I like 7/11 and XOne exchange on Suriwong where I can always ask for couple thousands in 100 and 500 notes

Great thread by the way, too bad I had busy day and could read it only now

[Min]

2. So around 8.30 pm, I reached Boyztown and first looked into Toy Boys. They only had three boys in total, all in boxers, two were talking to each other, and one standing at the door greeting customers. Since there were no customers yet and the mamasan in question was no where to be seen, I couldn't come in to ignore him so I left and decided to visit one of the soil's beer bars. 

The three beer bars currently in operation in Boyztown are Pikky, Serene and Panorama, situated right next to each other and in that order (from Pattayasaisong Road entrance). Both Panorama and Serene had virtually no customers at the time, while Pikky, the smallest one - just a quarter the size of Panorama, already had quite a few. It was not hard to see why: they had around 10 twinky boys, many of whom I found cute while the other bars had only one or two staffers on duty.

So I sat at the Pikky bar, their front table, to watch the soi traffic, which was typically light on a Monday night. Ordered my drink and invited two boys over, one Thai and one Lao, both of whom I already knew from the apps. 

Thai boy used to work in Winner Boy bar (the one I mentioned in the Winner Boy bar thread a few weeks ago: he came to work and stripped down to his undies just to pull up again to go with a customer). He's really skinny and small built, gay and bottom-only. So just to tease him, I asked if customers ever asked him to top. There was one before Covid, a Chinese woman, who was into small-boy looking types. He told me, he didn't want to go because he knew he wouldn't be able to perform, but mamasan kept pressuring him, saying the customer would pay as much as 10K. So he went and of course, couldn't get it up (he also admitted he has a rather small "tool"), and hence, had to use his fingers (showing me his fingers while telling this - they don't look like they are great tools either). Probably because of that, he got "only" 5000 instead of the promised 10K.

At that point, Boyz Boyz Boyz started their boy parade, which was put on pause for the last two years. Thai boy said they just restarted yesterday and it was not just BBB business. It's more like Pride parade and all the bars in the soi pooled their talents (the banner-carrier drag queen is actually Castro's staff and there were more than 30 boy participants), but the boys in Pikky stayed out of it because they were shy.

Then there was a smart-dressing elderly farang in wheelchair, who wheeled himself in. Now it's Lao boy's turn, who got an off from that customer, volunteered to share his experience. He said the guy was paralyzed from waist down and didn't take off his pants. The boy just worked second base up, nipple playing, kissing and all. Having heard something I probably shouldn't have, I look at that farang with admiration, thinking: when I reach his age and if I ever were in a similarly unfortunate situation, would I still have it in me to keep going and enjoy life like that? To the gentleman himself and others, it was probably a patronizing thought, but it was inspiring to me. 

Lost in my thoughts for a while, until Lao boy brought me back to reality, asking "Are you okay?"

Although Thai boy's look appeals more to me, I kinda connected better with Lao boy (also gay and bottom vers), who is more observant and also speaks better English. While I was there, another farang customer left with three  boys in tow. I watched them walking away and Lao boy, as if he could read my thoughts, said: It's not like that. He took care of them during Covid times. He said with feeling.

To lighten the mood, I asked would they be okay if I off them both at the same time. Both nodded. Then I added: but you have to do each other, I'm just there to watch. Lao boy was like "What???" then said "I can't but he (Thai boy) can f*ck me". They discussed this in Thai then Thai boy burst out laughing "No way!!!"

Speaking of threesome, in my experience, straight guys often have little problem with this arrangement as to them, it's just work (like you are asked to do a gay porn together). Straight boys I know back in Vietnam certain don't. Some even offer "a discount" if you take their "brother" as well. On the other hand, gay boys who are "sisters" with each other might mind. My previous offers for threesome was turned down twice in Pattaya (one in Toy Boy and another in Power Boy). In each case, both boys wanted to go with me but separately. You can off him today, off me tomorrow. They wouldn't do it if their "sister" is around. It's too weird, they said.

Enough joke. I didn't intend to off anyone anyway after my session with Kiwi earlier. Gave each boy 200 and mamasan 100 as tips. My Pikky soft drink was 80B, boy drink was 200 each (they get to keep 100), off fee is 300 (boys get to keep 100), so an off means boy can earn at least 1700 from drink, off fee and his ST fee. I thinks it's fair. For comparisons, Lao boy told me Toy Boys charges 500 off fee (boys also get to keep 100). Before Covid, a Viet boy I offed from Luck Boys in Bangkok told me he earned some from boy drink but nothing from the off fee (or bar fine).

On my way out, I walked past Toy Boys again. They now had 5 boys (one got offed and went with his customer to Pikky) but still no sight of the mamasan I'm so eager to run into again. Maybe another time. I took the bus baht back to Jomtien Complex.

(to be continued)

[Min]

3 hours ago, vaughn said:

I am very interested in your knowledge of the scene in Vietnam, I'm considering a small trip in the future to HCMC and possibly Hanoi so I'll let you finish your reporting and then ask a few questions.

Feel free to ask whenever. I will repeat in this thread some tidbits I already shared about Viet MBs in various threads to make it easier for future references.

[vinapu]

nice report and even nicer to read as I was there few weeks ago and recall easily farang with three boys, they were there every evening and cheerful gentleman in wheelchair with whom I shared table for a while.

as for taking two boys to do each other for 275th time I repeat , in such a case best way is to pick up one guy and let him chose another one , subject to our approval.  

[Min]

14 minutes ago, vinapu said:

as for taking two boys to do each other for 275th time I repeat , in such a case best way is to pick up one guy and let him chose another one , subject to our approval.  

Not my intention. I just said that to see how the boys would react

[vinapu]

3 minutes ago, Min said:

Not my intention. I just said that to see how the boys would react

I suspected that but chimed in with advice as I don't want readers to make mistake of forcing one boy on another  I once did

[colmx]

In TB pre-covid Mena from Cambodia and Aof from Thailand were the official mamasans 

Pat/Puk was the manager (short 50s)and the owner was from Taiwan and rarely present, when present he was usually on the terrace (tall, fit with light beard early 40s)

All the other floor staff were considered to be waiters, the Chinese speaking guy was often run off his feet doing the negotiations with Chinese customers.

I have seen Mena requesting tips up front from middle Eastern or South Asian customers, but usually only on their first visit to ensure that they know the customs when it comes to tipping 

[Min]

46 minutes ago, colmx said:

In TB pre-covid Mena from Cambodia and Aof from Thailand were the official mamasans 

Pat/Puk was the manager (short 50s)and the owner was from Taiwan and rarely present, when present he was usually on the terrace (tall, fit with light beard early 40s)

All the other floor staff were considered to be waiters, the Chinese speaking guy was often run off his feet doing the negotiations with Chinese customers.

So the one I thought was the manager is actually the owner, and Mena is the mamasan who often helped me with offing a boy (his name does strike some bell).