Should I visit Pattaya?

[12is12]

Guys, I humbly submit this discussion is OVERBLOWN.

A person is entitled to voice a personal preference to an all-male audience, without being branded a bigot.

In no way does such a preference constitute the beginning of a racist slippery slope, to the extent that even the Nazis r invoked.

Calm down, guys. He doesn't want to exterminate women.

[reader]

1 hour ago, 12is12 said:

In no way does such a preference constitute the beginning of a racist slippery slope, to the extent that even the Nazis r invoked.

Talk about overblown, I never used the words "bigot" or "Nazis". You did.

Z's entitled to opinion and so am I.  And so are you but don't expect it to silence me from offering mine.

[12is12]

Nazis: Niemoller's famous words were posted 6 hours ago by Reader.....

[12is12]

Sorry if I wasnt clear enough:

You quoted him, and he was referring to the Nazis.

[reader]

Yes, but I never inferred that Z was a Nazi. My purpose of quoting Niemoller was to illustrate how accepting discrimination any situation can set a precedent for accepting it in all.

Z and I both enjoy an argument, particularly with each other. We have a history of pursuing a point to exhaustion. I'm confident this won't be the last time.

 

[macaroni21]

Debating the particular - patpong and Pattaya bars - does not really throw light on the more general issue. The general point as I see it is that reader and perhaps some others hold non-discrimination as an article of faith. With quasi religious fervour.

I have explained that there are situations where a rational consideration can justify discrimination, and that discrimination in such situations can produce social good valued by people. Z909 has pointed out that all over the world, discrimination exists and is accepted. Sometimes, the rationale is clear. Other times, e.g. snooker contests, the rationale is not.

Especially when it's a private business*, the owner should be free to establish whatever customer policies he thinks serves his business goal, including making his business exclusive to one community. *The exception is when a private business has such large market share, it approaches monopoly position. 

But these rational arguments and real life examples will never convince true believers. Dogma is funny, isn't it?

 

[reader]

You'd prefer untrue believers?

[vinapu]

10 hours ago, New Londoner said:

the bars resorted to the Guantamano solution; playing music so loud as to drown not only conversation but thought.

I agree, for me Dreamboys and Jupiter are chief offenders in that field

 

as for bar discussion, I don't think most of Thai bars if any , with guys on the stage are gay bars, they are boy bars thus there's possibility they attract boy admirers of either gender and that's exactly what happens. It may not be comfortable for some but those ladies in audience while at times annoying, keep  those bars operational and well staffed.

While discrimination is slippery slope indeed , unfortunately and fortunately is fact of life and at times necessary. Senior discounts, ladies nights, suppression of night time noise, pedestrian only zones all all part and parcel of it. I'm discriminated against even in my former primary  school  which I can't visit as only parent and guardians of children are allowed inside  and even thea are prohibited from entry during class times.

As for presence of ladies in bars while at times annoying , I don't mind, specially when I'm marching away with hunk of my choice  while they hold their tears jealously at such waste of prime man material. I would not complain seeing boy bar with sign "ladies only" either. Let them have their fun.

In fact in my city we used to have male bar where "only men escorted by ladies are (were) admitted ", practice ended on grounds of discrimination and now we don't have  neither discrimination not that bar.

[PeterRS]

If I recall correctly. there were quite often several customers at Barbiery who came as a couple - i.e. male and female. Not many, but often at the week-ends. I do not recall any feeling of discrimination. Indeed, some of the boy couples doing their thing around the audience would sometimes go up to the girls.

[Lucky]

22 hours ago, reader said:

For some perhaps but folks in our age range are in a distinct minority. We alone cannot support the clubs and if women are willing to pony up the entrance fee, drink minimums and tips, it's no skin off my back.  Those females help keep the clubs open.

I don't feel threatened by the inclusion of women. Most of the guys on stage love the sounds of those screaming hordes. This is not your your granddaddy's world. Get over it.

 

 

 

 

How rude of you.

[Vessey]

Since this thread has already gone wildly off-topic I will wade in again.

The straight boys working as money boys in the Pattaya bars, are, in my experience just as happy to be offed by a female customer as a male one. Which is fine as the female customers are looking for the straight guys rather than twinks. 

So in Boyztown, Cupidol (yes now closed) used to be mostly twinks and you rarely saw a female customer. BoyzBoyzBoyz always has a mixture of male and female customers. As indeed, to a lesser extend did Toy Boys which was a mixture of gay and straight boys; in fact Toy Boys makes the distinction in saying that it is a Boy Bar as opposed to a Gay Bar. I have also seen male and female customers (even a family with children one time) in XBoys even with the shower and boom boom shows. 

Less female customers to be see in Jomtien Complex, although I have seen a few.

Sunee, and Nice Boys - welcomes all customers and the boys can be taken off by both male and female customers; Winner Boys less so as that is known to be a twink heaven. 

Conversely, in the karaoke bars, the boys there expect mostly female customers, but most are happy enough to be called down by gay customers for drinks and maybe more. 

This has always been the case I think, but especially in these Covid times I doubt anywhere would be turning away customers with money to spend. 

[vinapu]

9 hours ago, Vessey said:

I have also seen male and female customers (even a family with children one time) in XBoys even with the shower and boom boom shows. 

 

I saw similar family entourage in Classic in soi Twilight and left immediately as I think  dragging children into  this type of establishment is just asking for trouble for all involved , including spectators 

[vaughn]

1 minute ago, vinapu said:

I saw similar family entourage in Classic in soi Twilight and left immediately as I think  dragging children into  this type of establishment is just asking for trouble for all involved , including spectators 

I saw a family with a kid walking into a bar in Boyztown in 2019, I was a little shocked by that, but I was just walking past so I'm not sure if they were turned around or not. I think we'd all agree there's a line to be drawn there, but any other customers I'm fine with, their baht is just as good as mine.

[Travellerdave]

I suppose in these post Covid times we have to accept the presence of females in “our” bars and accept that their money allows them to open. When I first visited Pattaya in 2002 you never saw ladies on the gay beach but in later years it became more common to see a small number joining us gays and our Asian boyfriends there. 

[Londoner]

Ask the guys. I recall a scene in one bar when rather good-looking six-foot  Amazon entered a bar in Pattaya; the guys separated into two groups. Most of them clustered around her, the others shrank into a corner, apparently embarrassed. I know how they felt.

[Mateo_37]

On 4/29/2022 at 6:01 PM, z909 said:

A lot depends on where you want to stay, what your budget is and what your priorities are for the room.    Even which side of a hotel you stay on can make a difference, with sometimes a trade of for road noise v a view etc. 

Example hotels:

Near Jomtien Bars -Zing -reasonable price.    The Agate higher price.

South Pattaya:   Mosaik   -good value & convenient location for a few decent coffee shops;     Is well located for Sunee Plaza & Boyztown, but at the moment Jomtien is where the best bar scene is to be found.

Near Boyztown: Classrooms.   Warning, this is above The Classrooms (girlie) bar and A Bomb gay bar, but I've always found the higher floors to be quiet and comfortable. 

I wouldn't do anything daft like staying in North Pattaya.

 

 

What about Baan Souy Resort? I have heard it is pretty nice place. Is it worth staying there?

[reader]

52 minutes ago, Londoner said:

Ask the guys. I recall a scene in one bar when rather good-looking six-foot  Amazon entered a bar in Pattaya; the guys separated into two groups. Most of them clustered around her, the others shrank into a corner, apparently embarrassed. I know how they felt.

Jeff Bezos is actually 5-7. It's his wallet that makes him appear taller.😉

[Londoner]

True....but that girl was well-over six foot .  I referred to her as an Amazon but her blonde hair suggested a Viking warrior  from that rather good TV series.  She'd have eaten some of the go go dancers alive. I left the bar when she climbed up on the stage and started dancing.

 

[orson]

Visited boyztown last night and bbb seems to have a complete set of show. They asked me if I came to just look, when I said yes, they ushered me to the upper portion of the bar. It seems they want to reserve the 'pit' part for those wanting to throw tips.

The mamasan will bug you to off a boy, but they seem to have a hard time to understand my English. And doesn't get that I want the boy performing in the show, but not in their lineup. After all this, they still ask for tip for them, despite no help.

Off fee is 500, and expected tip 2000 for boy. Which is Bangkok pricing, if I recall correctly. 

I also passed a bomb, dream boys and xboys last night which are open. But the shows in bbb are interspersed, so did not have the opportunity to check the other bars. 

[Londoner]

I'm years out of date on this topic but as I understand it, BBB has always thought of itself a cut above the other Boyztown bars when it comes to pricing.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Londoner said:

I'm years out of date on this topic but as I understand it, BBB has always thought of itself a cut above the other Boyztown bars when it comes to pricing.

Fortunately, I like smaller skinny lads and have no interest in BBB boys, so I don't have to worry about their prices.   When they are wearing jeans, I have even less reason to think about visiting them.     

In Pattaya, 2000 is more of a long time price.   Short time, perhaps 1200~1300.

My experience is certainly 2000 for long time and another board member, who likes more muscular boys has also been for 2000 for long time.

[Boy69]

1 hour ago, z909 said:

Fortunately, I like smaller skinny lads and have no interest in BBB boys, so I don't have to worry about their prices.   When they are wearing jeans, I have even less reason to think about visiting them.     

In Pattaya, 2000 is more of a long time price.   Short time, perhaps 1200~1300.

My experience is certainly 2000 for long time and another board member, who likes more muscular boys has also been for 2000 for long time.

Yes I agree ST rate 1000-1500 LT 1500-2000 .

[vinapu]

4 hours ago, Londoner said:

I'm years out of date on this topic but as I understand it, BBB has always thought of itself a cut above the other Boyztown bars when it comes to pricing.

and at times rightly so in my opinion as there was time I considered it to be best bar in the whole Thailand

[vinapu]

4 hours ago, z909 said:

 

...and another board member, who likes more muscular boys has also been for 2000 for long time.

it well can be me  and yes , this is what I was asked in Dec. Due to heat generated I was more  generous to compensate for energy usage but by ever mean it was my decision taken by guy as nice surprise and a bonus, well spent as next night added even more to the global warming

[Londoner]

BBB dancers always reflected its owners' tastes, though I do recall offing a charming twink back in the 90s. And he wasn't the only one there, though the equally popular Cockpit directly opposite was more to my taste in this respect.