Santo Domingo - Manny - Fees

[endlessdream]

Business must be good. He quoted me 60 to 100 usd for the boys plus 25 usd for him. Not sure I’ll take the bait. I kinda remember he used to charge 2500 to 3000 pesos, which is 45 to 55 usd in total. 

[endlessdream]

 

 

[Riobard]

Nobody is forced to use a procurer.

All this exchange indicates is a finder fee of $25 that could, for example, amount to $5 per encounter if the escort goes ‘off grid’ for you an additional 4 times. There is no explicit rule against that model and every reason for the procurer to set an arbitrary fee according to the degree to which it is stretched out by a continuum of direct punter-escort negotiations over which the procurer has no control.

If you go to a millinery shop and commit to one new hat per month it would make sense that the business model might differ compared to solely one annual Easter bonnet. You can drive both yourself and the proprietor crazy if you start a Facebook group dedicated to discussing prices among  whatever customers are willing to join. There’s an inevitable range of input, from braggadocio over getting a good deal to lamentation about feeling cheated or gaslit. One always has the option to fashion roses out of Kleenex. 

To the point of where the escort fee cash ends up, my view is that is between the procurer and provider. The overall dynamic seems to be one of mutual distrust: client hypervigilance about upsell concomitant with procurer assumption his cut will always be potentially diluted by removing his middle-man status. If you want to figure out a truly invariant and appealing cost-savings charge in a stalemate context as complex as that in a country oriented to sex tourism, good luck with that. 

But who am I to stop braiding each other’s hair while comparing and contrasting prices?  I don’t know for a fact that the same interactions never occur(red) for the trifecta of streetwalker call-girls, pimps, and johns as stereotypically characterized as we view it. Perhaps an elaborate board discussion and sharing of fees rendered will put an inquirer further ahead in what steps to take next. This forum, overall, is abysmally impoverished when it comes to the topic of commercial sex work pricepoints. Please sir, more. 

[endlessdream]

Thank you Riobard for your in depth client - procurer - provider dynamic analysis. I merely want to update Manny’s fees as many fellow members here do count on his service while traveling to SD. 

[tm_nyc]

You could try contacting Freddy or one of the other 'service providers' to see what rate they charge.  Your question seems reasonable, IMO.

[Canadianbtmguy]

Wow, that is a stunning increase percentagewise from when I was there just weeks ago in February (1000 pesos for him, boys starting at 2500 for the nonmuscular, to 3500-4000 for the more muscular.) He seems to have switched from pesos to dollars and baked in an over 50% increase. At these prices, you needless to say, are way beyond Brazil and about the same as Barcelona or Madrid--where you will find most of the guys are from Latin America--and a place markedly more appealing in many ways to spend a week than Santo Domingo. As noted elsewhere, I was not terribly impressed with Manny's guys, even at the old price. I wonder if in some way he saw you as an easy mark and his prices vary? (e.g. I didn't try to speak English with him)

In any case, endlessdream, if you can stomach the long flight and a certain amount of Brazilian danger (some statements here that one just needs to be careful in Rio "as in any big city" I would say minimize very significant differences compared to say Spain, where guns are extremely rare) you need to try it.

[Riobard]

Like I indicated, the discussion opens a can of worms to the point where there is lacking consensus and accuracy about costs, now to the point not surprisingly where switching destinations is proposed as one possible solution. 

I have a suggestion, take it or leave it, but it worked for me. I had our illustrious procurer pick me up at the airport and deliver me to my accommodations, at which point we sat down to go over his catalogue and briefly review my past experiences in various locations, including fees to access structured escort venues typically, amounts paid to providers elsewhere particularly the best value for output, the breadth of utilization to expect from me, his role in introduction and package delivery, my preferred ‘type’, etc, without bringing up any “hearsay” about fairness/accuracy in price or what I knew about his delineation of rates to other punters. Up to that point, there had been no mention of fees, not in setting up his airport pickup weeks prior (except his transfer fee), not in his vehicle, not prior to or during a viewing of some of his provider photos. That specific component came up at the end of a relaxing patio conversation and it all generally seemed reasonable to me, bearing in mind his time ultimately spent on deliveries and parking his vehicle in congested areas in order to do so, as well as the added time it evidently took for escorts to meet up with him and attend my specific location. And drawing on the comparative reference point of a few Brazilian trips within the year prior. 

The content of such a face-to-face exchange could not possibly have been integrated into a WhatsApp discussion where the threshold of diminished return for the procurer is reached early. Similarly, a nuanced adjunct to the conversation that touches on potential fluidity of costs tends to go more smoothly and in a more personalized fashion than in texting someone not actually met yet.

Once a procurer has conveyed prices in writing ahead of your visit because you solicited the info, without his knowing what you already know or think you know, an alteration in charges subsequent to that tends to connote that either you are special as it happens deserving of a discount or that there was an element of fleecing in the first place that the procurer must somehow take ownership of in engaging further with you. So this perhaps puts one in a paradoxical position … either insist on knowing costs ahead of your commitment to travel and risk getting what appears to an upsell that you must psychologically reconcile, versus taking at face value that the procurer will add meaningful and financially manageable erotic experiences to your time there and simply taking the leap because the range of descriptive reviews from others has not suggested it’s a bust. Better to fret a bit when all said and done if it did not go according to hopes than begin fretting from the get go wondering if experience will deviate from negative expectations. 

[endlessdream]

I’m sorry, but Riobard, why are you fighting against this?! It was merely to share a piece of information that I got. If you would like to defend him that much, why don’t you share what he charged you exactly? This forum it’s all about sharing, right?

[Riobard]

54 minutes ago, endlessdream said:

I’m sorry, but Riobard, why are you fighting against this?! It was merely to share a piece of information that I got. If you would like to defend him that much, why don’t you share what he charged you exactly? This forum it’s all about sharing, right?

Au contraire, I believe you are seeking input on what to make of an apparent contradiction in what payment is expected. It cannot be entirely stripped of philosophy. Otherwise, you would have simply outlined the facts. There is nothing particularly noteworthy about the figures that either you or others are quoted or paid. If I were more obsessive I would recall what I doled out myself in Santo Domingo prior to the pandemic. In general I was not blown away on the type of guys on offer but I thought the fees were commensurate with the encounters. And I have been around the block countless times, punting for some 4 decades, quite a bit according to the multitude of international settings embedded in posts on our board.

If I were a proxy defender for a procurer’s justification I would not be alluding to the prospects of higher fees for some predicated on soft exploitation; it’s built in to the trade dynamics. That said, I don’t discount that the explicit sharing of amounts (albeit ranges) is useful to a subset of the readership here. However, the trend in this forum is to celebrate a lowest common denominator in price when in actuality if that metric were higher it could still be considered appealing in the context of all location comparators. 

I don’t understand any basic objection to absence of absolute uniformity in cost for the same item. I am going to Europe imminently and the same flight class booked on one date is 48% higher than on another date. I see no reason to feel losing out at the higher price or advantaged at the lower price, depending on the purchase that got locked in. Such fixations seem a waste of time and energy because I believe they are mentally unhealthy and that things generally balance out in life.

[Riobard]

On a slightly different note, word to the wise, when texting known procurers outlined here in order to introduce yourself, take care to choose the direct bilateral English-Spanish translate function not the more elaborate English-Psychopathy-Spanish version, so as to avoid puzzling passages written in response to your reaching out. Similar to unpredictability in other aspects of commercial sex trade these things can be both amusing and offputting, just naturally coming with the territory and necessitating flexibility and forbearance. 

[endlessdream]

Lol. That’s uncalled for. I happen to speak Spanish. 

[12is12]

ELD, I have another suggestion.

I posted a number of detailed reports here 2 years ago, during and after my visit to DR, including about my experience with Manny. He's an honest businessman, naturally seeking to maximize profits. The quotes you mentioned indeed reflect a steep increase from the pre-covid era.

I recommended then and repeat my recommendation now: visit the place withour pre-arrangements with Manny, and find the guys on Grindr. They charge less.Through the app I met also a guy, who went on to procure others for me (including for a foursome), at a lesser rate than Manny's.

If this cheaper option doesn't work out for you during the first 24 hours, you could always go back to Manny.

 

Happy horny safe travels.     (-:

[endlessdream]

Thx for the suggestion. I think it’s what I’ll end up doing anyway. 

[bucknaway]

Put your money where it's treated best.  

As far as Manny and his prices, it may be worth mentioning that you read posts about him and his service in trip reports and ask him what caused the major fee hikes?  

If you do meet a guy from the apps, ask him what apps or webpages are popular, you may get some info that makes your holiday that much more enjoyable.

[12is12]

.....and taking into consideration that he might well be reading this and other threads

[endlessdream]

I did mention where I read about his service and got his contacts. Anyway, it’s no biggy. Again, good for him. 

[endlessdream]

15 minutes ago, 12is12 said:

.....and taking into consideration that he might well be reading this and other threads

Why should we care? We didn’t do anything wrong. And we have enough fierce Manny-defenders here. 

[12is12]

I agree; I don't think we have to care.

I don't view myself as his "attacker"; I noted he's an honest businessman, legitimately seeking to maximize profits. BTW, so are all providers (not only of sex). 

Maybe he'll draw conclusions regarding his rates....

[endlessdream]

Absolutely 

[snwbrdr015]

Dear USA travelers, please don’t screw up the local market by overpaying for those special services we all like so much! Yes, I’m addressing you guys, because you turn out to be the most oblivious when it comes to recognizing when you are getting ripped off. I’ve seen it all over the globe. Hell, I’ve met boys who joked about it when we were talking rates: ‘oh sorry, I thought you were American. No worry, this is my normal rate’

Been to Santo Domingo few times, never used a middle man. Save your money. Don’t get overcharged. 60-100usd is waaaaay too much imo. Get your guy directly. Grindr. Street. Bar. What ever. Simple rules:

- no cédula, no date. Make a photo. Mail it to yourself so you file it in your inbox

- make sure that all your important valuables are in a hidden (travel)safe. Only carry a boy-fee and some pocket money

- keep your phone with you, or in sight. Take it in the shower also. 

- listen to your inner gut feeling: too good to be true? Don’t do it. Sketchy guy? Leave it. Feels all right? Go dot it. 
 

I had some big dicked muscle studs plowed me passionately with no issues at all. Hell, some of those became regulars. 
 

basic rules keep your mind at ease and your surrounding acceptably safe. 
 

maybe its that sense middlemen provide super models? Meh, I don’t know about that. 
 

enjoy!

[12is12]

RIGHT ON !!

[Latbear4blk]

1 hour ago, snwbrdr015 said:

Dear USA travelers, please don’t screw up the local market by overpaying for those special services we all like so much!

 

1 hour ago, 12is12 said:

RIGHT ON !!

Right on, indeed. But the friend will be probably ignored. Americans love overpaying for everything.

[Guest]

I think there is another way to look at this - in most cases, the difference in overpayment is insignificant to the American/Western customer.  But, that same overpayment is significant to the foreign sex-worker.  It’s not an issue about being gullible, naive or unable to negotiate - but, rather helping these guys out in a direct way when they provide a service.  

It’s just being kind & generous to those less fortunate.  That said, I don’t wildly overpay - but I’m well past the point of haggling over 50/100 reais ($10-$20 dollars). And I tip the boys  in addition when the service is really good, which is typically the case.

Most of us lead an incredibly privileged life with disposable income and the ability to travel the world.  It’s a good thing to help others less fortunate whenever & however we can.  I’m not judging those who think differently - it’s just how I operate both in the US & abroad.  This goes for hotel housekeeping, wait staff & anyone I come in contact that provides extraordinary service.  The 2020 per capita income in Brazil is less than US $8000 - think about that.  Same with Dominican Republic.

If the American identity is a problem - just say you’re from some other English speaking country.

Manny, specially as the middleman in DR is an entirely separate conversation re: payment for services.  That gets down to your own comfort/tolerance re: personal safety with unknown people in a questionable environment.  It’s just not the same as going into a Brazilian sauna where there are layers of protection for customers.

[12is12]

I agree also with u SG, and I see no contradiction.

I use my travels to contribute my share to the redistribution of wealth btw the 1st and 3rd worlds.

However, I prefer to do so via tips, and not by acceeding to overcharges.

Too often those who overcharge - or try to - perceive the client only as a source of income, and not as a person whose money has earned him the right to a whole-hearted service.

[Riobard]

Nobody has defined or can easily define an overcharge in quantitative terms. The fallacious assumption is that there is an arbitrary fixed normative fee when in fact what is requested or what is paid is typically a range across a host of transactions, a histogram with a mean average and standard deviations. The majority client collective, understandably, is oriented to holding this theoretical absolute figure constant while the provider collective is similarly oriented to both maintaining that constant (at the very least), while  simultaneously attempting an upwards deviation from it. That is the very premise of gratuities.

The only way to agree on a threshold at which a theoretical normative charge slips into overage territory, holding the phenomenon of gratuities constant, is to settle, consensus-based, on a proportion of one standard deviation that represents a minimal, moderate, or inarguably substantial amount; in clinical research these are typically represented as 20, 50, and 80% of the standard deviation, respectively.

You see, overage is also subject to a gradient. However, standard deviation is a moving target at any given time and payment ranges are far more tenuous than normative means (averages) that tend to maintain greater stability in spite of the breadth of ranges that are largely determined by fee differentials locally versus touristically. Technically, then, overage as a proportion of deviation from central tendency is governed predominantly by the differential between charges below a lower percentile (locals’ payments) and above a higher percentile (a sprinkling of larger payments made by punters with deeper pockets). The greater predominance of the former amounts to the overage threshold being considerably higher because standard deviation is proportional to range; in other words, it’s harder for a visitor to reach the overpay realm at, say 20% of the first standard deviation. Yet one gets the sense that many visitors freak out about an actually insubstantial amount trickling down into transaction expectations that set them too far apart from their perceived entitlement, to be viewed and treated as worthy of the nullification of providers’ bent towards maximal profit.

The thrust of much position here on the board is that there is or should be a considerably fixed invariant standard rate, notwithstanding that our tastes dictate that we would balk at paying any amount for a provider whose worth we disagree about. If the ‘going rate’ (funnily, this term actually suggests a fixed amount is on the go, thus variable) were to be the achievable goal then standard deviation would be relatively small and, paradoxically, a very small deviation above the central tendency metric would represent overage of significance (ie, being “taken”, exploited, ripped off) while a similarly small deviation lower would not represent a kind of equivalency in savings. This leads to the tendency to cast aspersions on those that happen to pay more, any amount more without anxiety or any iota of self-loathing, as if worry were truly legitimate, weirdly transposed to needless worry on the part of a separate set of players. My gawd, I don’t know how some punters actually get to have fun unencumbered by bitterness. LOL

Most of these ideas and trends governing my take are actually contributed by the readership, your raw (tee-hee) material  so don’t blame me for the length of this post. LOL.