Air Rage: How Would You Tackle It?

[PeterRS]

I find the increasing reports of air rage, mostly it seems on USA internal flights, very disturbing. From what I read most involve those who are against the mask mandate. Well, my view is bugger them. They should be both fined and jailed.

I realise cockpits are now secure and you cannot open a plane's doors at 10,000 meters, but the thought of fights breaking out on an aircraft I might also be on appals me, as I know it does the Flight Attendants Union. If by some chance a couple of passengers forced a flight attendant to give them the security code for the cockpit, who knows what might happen.

To my way of thinking, this is a result of not making covid prevention measures a Federal mandate and instead leaving it to individual states and thus subject to political whims. Do the good people of the USA not realise that the numbers who have died from covid19 already number at least 50% more than all Americans who died in World Wars 1 and 2, the Korean War and the various wars in Indochina? In those wars, Federal mandates were in force. With covid19 it's people who stupidly call themselves politicians with ridiculous agendas who call the shots - or rather to avoid the shots!!

[Londoner]

For evidence of the above, there are plenty of "Karen" clips on You Tube....one of my many guilty pleasures.

The only time I was present when something like this happened was on a Thai Air twenty years ago flight when a passenger was dragged away in handcuffs. And I slept right through it!

[RockHardNYC]

6 hours ago, PeterRS said:

They should be both fined and jailed.

I support large fines, jail time, and putting names on no-fly lists.

IMO, public air travel is a disaster these days, and I speak about it to anyone willing to listen, especially politicians. I have no problem blaming Trump for the ungodly mess. He's unleashed a cocky arrogance that knows no boundaries. The current situation is very dangerous. I fail to see how it can be sustained without extreme protective measures. As a result, I am flying much less than ever. And I'm very careful about the airline I select.

I personally LOVE mask wearing. I haven't had a cold or flu symptoms in over two years. I also LOVE avoiding the bad breath in our world. Masks can be wonderful, if you care about your well-being, and you care about the health of others.

[JKane]

13 hours ago, PeterRS said:

To my way of thinking, this is a result of not making covid prevention measures a Federal mandate and instead leaving it to individual states and thus subject to political whims.

 

I know what you're saying, but mask wearing on aircraft/public transit *is* federally mandated.  

 

 

 

Forcing the code out of the Flight Attendants I don't see as a problem, what are they going to do that's worth than the prospect of a fiery death?  Few of these dumbasses have attacked the cockpit though.  

I kinda hope the worst of them keep it up and have to explain to a future employer why they can't ever fly again.  

 

 

 

 

 

[JKane]

 

As for how I would tackle it, if I saw a situation getting out of control I would offer my help to the flight attendants and if accepted I would tackle the shit out of the idiot causing the disturbance.  

 

[RockHardNYC]

1 hour ago, JKane said:

I would tackle the shit out of the idiot causing the disturbance.

Even though I have a pretty (yet aging) face to protect (nice hands, too), I would happily jump on an asshole to assist a flight attendant. I don't consider myself a violent person at all, but when threatened, I can easily turn into Leo the Lion, head of the jungle.

Absolutely LOVED the Jeff Tiedrich tweet.

[RockHardNYC]

Being a Flight Attendant Was a Dream Job. Now It's a Nightmare

 

[NIrishGuy]

Just on the the whole door code thing......so do the flight attendants even KNOW the code ( is there even a code pad ?) as I thought the whole idea was that once the door was locked that it could ONLY be opened by the pilots from the INSIDE of the cockpit after looking through the spy hole ( and CCTV camera) to unlock the electronic lock ?? No ??

If so that always left the conundrum about what if a hijacker was standing outside the door holding a crew member ( or member of the public for that matter) hostage and threatening to kill them if the door wasn't opened, to which it's been made fair clear knowledge now I thought that pilots had now said and been trained that "the door doesn't get opened under ANY circumstances" and should they need to land the plane with all crew and passengers killed in the meantime then so be it as "that" was better than the alternative of another 9/11 type attack etc.  That was my understanding of things anyway? 

 

*Edit - a quick google re the above states that there is a code, but the cockpit setting for the door lock has three settings, one being "open" i.e not locked at all, the other being "locked by code, meaning the code the crew may have works, but only opens the door after a 30 second delay ( giving the pilots time to check the screen and see who's there and override the open command if necessary) and finally LOCKED - where no code works and the door remains locked no matter what.  Curiously that lock only activates for intervals of five minutes and then has to be reset to locked again it seems which seems strange as you'd of thought if they HAD to press LOCK they'd of wanted to keep that way until they changed their minds again perhaps !

Oh and just to stay on topic re air rage etc - TASERS !!!  the second one of the buggers started up with how they were refusing to do "whatever" crew should just be allowed to taser them either until they leave the flight, comply or die !  ( ok so the last one is perhaps a LITTLE harsh, but when you listen to some of those Karens ( usually from the US it has to be said) sometimes it feels like a fitting way to deal with them !!  🙂 

 

[RockHardNYC]

1 hour ago, NIrishGuy said:

what if a hijacker was standing outside the door holding a crew member ( or member of the public for that matter) hostage and threatening to kill them if the door wasn't opened

If it's one hostage or everyone on board the flight, that's a no-brainer. 

1 hour ago, NIrishGuy said:

TASERS !!!

Sorry. Putting tasers in the hands of civilians is NOT the answer. While I would pay to see many of the Trump assholes get tasered, the legal implications alone would employ law firms for years to come.

The easiest way to deal with a life-threatening asshole on a plane: punish the fucker as best as the law will allow and never let him/her fly again.

[NIrishGuy]

24 minutes ago, RockHardNYC said:

Sorry. Putting tasers in the hands of civilians is NOT the answer.

🙂 My suggestion was fairly tongue in cheek, I realise it wouldn't be the best option for several reasons - just doesn't mean the buggers still dont deserve it though eh 🙂

[MrBill]

Prior to 2019 the FAA received approximately 150 complaints of passenger violence/rage annually (FAA stats). The last 2 years that number rose to over 1000 each year. And that only covers USA complaints. In my mind, simply banning someone from future flights isn't enough. If a passenger is found responsible for engaging in violent behavior, I think they should have to compensate all other passengers on board for delays and inconvenience. The typical B737 holds 180-220 passengers. If each one on board received $100.00 USD that would cost the culprit $18,000 to $22,000. A B777 holds 440 passengers, if full that's $44000. If I and others are inconvenienced by some jerk causing trouble, I think our time is worth something beyond the ban of the unruly passenger.

[caeron]

Looking at the FAA's webpage, they're responsible for 45,000 flights a day. That's 16.45M flights a year. Even assuming some notable portion of those are private, the odds seem to be somewhere north of 1 in a million that you'd be on a plane with a rage incident. The media loves stirring people up because it gets reader's eyeballs, but the actual odds of experiencing one seem pretty low.

[vinapu]

Statistics are one thing  but if you happen to be unlucky one on such  flight it 's not nice feeling.

Once flying transatlantic route we have drunk pasenger who was, actually actively harassing others, to add  tho the drama, much bigher than him. Only announcement that we have right for emergency landing in Aberdeen quiet him down. On arrival at destination he was promptly arrested aboard but even then he proudly screamed,, they come for me,,, 

Not an experience I fondly recall, much, much worse than my last night off. 

[xpaulo]

On 2/17/2022 at 3:24 AM, RockHardNYC said:

I have no problem blaming Trump for the ungodly mess. He's unleashed a cocky arrogance that knows no boundaries

We have a lot of problems with air travel in Canada right now, short staff, delayed flights, long lineups, at least in Toronto, which is all that matters for the national media. The airlines are blaming it on the vaccine mandates which are still in force in on domestic and international flights. I think a lack of baggage handlers is a bigger problem since it affects connecting flights, but the airlines want to shift the blame onto the government.

[PeterRS]

4 hours ago, xpaulo said:

We have a lot of problems with air travel in Canada right now, short staff, delayed flights, long lineups, at least in Toronto, which is all that matters for the national media. The airlines are blaming it on the vaccine mandates which are still in force in on domestic and international flights. I think a lack of baggage handlers is a bigger problem since it affects connecting flights, but the airlines want to shift the blame onto the government.

Continuing on this slight side-track, surely the airlines and the airports are primarily responsible for the much longer delays, with immigration authorities not far behind? To a certain extent it is understandable. When covid really started to hit, passenger traffic collapsed almost completely. A huge number of staff were laid off to avoid bankruptcies - although quite a few airlines did go under. The major resurgence in travel has taken most in the travel industry by surprise. We can complain that they should have had better planning in place for all eventualities and getting staff quickly back to work, but that's not going to help with the existing long queues, delays, over-bookings and cancellations. I guess those of us in Asia are in a slightly better situation. In the meantime, those in the west have little choice but grin and bear it.

[Olddaddy]

I will say I was involved in some "Air rage" a few years ago on my flight to Bangkok.

Having a week off work suddenly I decided a quick trip from Australia to Bangkok was in order and thus booked a economy Jetstar flight that evening.

When the boarding was called I noticed quite a few guys ,probably young indian students all rush to be first in line to be boarded.

All had several carry on bags & boxes each in their possession.

As I'm not one to rush up to line up,I took my time and boarded last.

Upon my arrival on the plane I opened the overhead locker above my seat to see it's crammed tight with boxes and bags !

The boxes I recognised from the indian students who had boarded earlier, however looking at the seats below those lockers they weren't seated there .

I immediately informed the disinterested flight attendant, who pointed to go further down the aisle and find a empty overhead locker above.

I then walked down opened up a few above the people sitting below to find also most of them full, before going almost half way down the plane to find one with some space.

On putting my bag in,the male passenger  below looks up at me and tells me it's not mine if I'm not seated where he is.

He looked aggressive so I decided to move to next to it only to get the woman seated below also to loudly complain,so I decided to walk back to where my seat was with my carry on bag and again I saw the disinterested lady flight attendant standing there saying nothing.

Rather than walk the plane looking for above lockers I decided just to put the bag under my seat ,she came running up and and started shouting to put that in a above locker, I again pointed out the above locker is full of boxes and I have been down the aisle looking to no avail.

Rather than help she created a scene shouting I must leave the plane if I can't put it in the locker above .

She offered no help or assistance, I could even see the indian students who were seated rows away laughing, unfortunately it was all their boxes in the lockers that was preventing me from putting my bags in there .

So by this time I was frustrated so I asked her do you know which locker is empty,her response "Find one !!

By this time still seated with my bag on my lap, I told her what a rude bitch she was, of  course she called her supervisor I guess who came out and asked me to leave the plane.

So I'm saying Air rage is not always the passengers fault 

If she had offered me some assistance in the first place instead of standing their like she didn't care as I trumped up & down the aisle then everything would of been sorted but she didn't .

I also work in a customer service role sometimes with violent & aggressive people,Im usually able to do this using my skills to descalate them and show some empathy ,their anger is usually caused by frustration and no one to help them.

Sure I called her a stupid bitch that was my fault but I got frustrated at her lack of caring and demand that I trump up and down the aisle looking for a empty overhead locker arguing with people seated below who took offence of me putting my carry bag in their overhead locker ,don't ask me why 😂but rather than argue with them I moved on.

So now I like to hear 2 side of the story before I make a decision on air rage,it usually comes from frustration and lack of caring or descalation skills of staff, things like staff refusing to intervene in passengers refusing to recline their chair in front of you during meals etc .

Some of these people shouldn't be in a customer service role.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Darden911]

On 2/20/2022 at 10:38 AM, NIrishGuy said:

 

If so that always left the conundrum about what if a hijacker was standing outside the door holding a crew member ( or member of the public for that matter) hostage and threatening to kill them if the door wasn't opened, to which it's been made fair clear knowledge now I thought that pilots had now said and been trained that "the door doesn't get opened under ANY circumstances" and should they need to land the plane with all crew and passengers killed in the meantime then so be it as "that" was better than the alternative of another 9/11 type attack etc.  That was my understanding of things anyway? 

 

 

That's the plot of the film 7500 starring Joseph Gordon-Levitt!

[Darden911]

On 6/2/2022 at 11:41 AM, caeron said:

Looking at the FAA's webpage, they're responsible for 45,000 flights a day. That's 16.45M flights a year. Even assuming some notable portion of those are private, the odds seem to be somewhere north of 1 in a million that you'd be on a plane with a rage incident. The media loves stirring people up because it gets reader's eyeballs, but the actual odds of experiencing one seem pretty low.

Yeah, this. 

 I strongly doubt it's a significant increase given the sheer number of flights involved. 

 

[xpaulo]

16 hours ago, PeterRS said:

surely the airlines and the airports are primarily responsible for the much longer delays

You're quite right, but the airlines/airports see an opportunity to pressure the government to ditch the rest of the mandates/covid rules, plus escape public anger. And in terms of the mandates, etc, they're not doing much good anymore. People are packing into sports venues, bars, etc and not wearing masks, so it's hard to see what the point of the air travel covid rules are and they do inconvenience travellers.

[PeterRS]

20 hours ago, Olddaddy said:

Upon my arrival on the plane I opened the overhead locker above my seat to see it's crammed tight with boxes and bags !

This is one issue that the airlines have brought on themselves. First by encouraging passengers to take carry-on baggage rather than pay for luggage in the cargo hold, and second by not policing passengers to ensure that the number of carry-on bags is not more than permitted by the conditions of the ticket.

When I was working full time in the Asian regional offices of three international companies, I had to travel each year to several company offices. The least expensive way to do this was usually with a round-the-world ticket. Not only did these have the perk of several more flight sectors than I needed (up to 16 until around 2004 when it was reduced to 14 on OneWorld) - thereby permitting several short vacation side-trips at almost no cost, as I was allowed biz class travel the tickets were automatically upgraded to first class within the USA if, as was usually the case, there was no biz class on the plane. Not that first class was anything like a first class in most other areas of the world - in fact, space-wise not even on a par with premium economy nowadays. But it did permit much faster check-in, lounge access and free drinks on board. What always annoyed me was that some passengers who boarded the aircraft first would plonk their bags in the overhead bin at the front before moving down to their seats at the back. So first class bins were often full by the time premium passengers boarded. Only very occasionally would flight attendants stop this.

Since these days, I have found that only Easyjet in Europe has been very strict on carry-on bags and bag dimensions (haven't flown Ryanair and so have no comparison). In Asia, though, despite often stringent regulations on carry ons, I have never once seen any airline staff stop passengers who take on board more bags then permitted. And like @Olddaddy's experience, it is frequently Indian passengers who bring a very large number of shopping bags on board.

I don't really blame the passengers. If an airline has rules and 99 times out of 100 fails to enforce them, then its staff are to blame.

Last point on air rage. I have written several times to the so-called legacy carriers in Asia requesting that boarding passengers who have large backpacks be forced to hand carry them on to the plane. Twice I have been hit on the head when in an aisle seat and a late boarding passenger has suddenly turned around resulting in my getting hit on the head by the backpack. Fortunately I wear spectacles. If I did not, on one occasion the loose end of a thick strap that hit the spectacles could have badly damaged my eye. But writing is clearly a waste of time for I still see flight attendants happily accepting passengers wearing large backpacks.