Poor, poor Whoopi Goldberg.

[RockHardNYC]

I know Whoopi Goldberg. I've worked with Whoopi Goldberg. I can't believe she said something SO STUPID on national television. It continues to demonstrate, no matter how smart you are, no matter how successful, a day may come, a moment may strike when you do something so utterly STUPID, say something incredibly damaging to your career, hurtful to your co-workers and friends, and cause a public relations fiasco that may prove extremely difficult to overcome. Whoopi Goldberg may be apologizing for a very long time, an apology tour, and it probably won't do her much good. It'll be interesting to see what cancel culture does with her.

The goal of Nazi Germany in the 1940's was to exterminate the Jewish race (along with many other minorities). To not know this as an American celebrity (who has identified as Jewish in her past), someone educated in America, someone who has worked with and for Steven Spielberg, is beyond comprehension.

It must really suck to be Whoopi Goldberg right now.

[Lonnie]

38 minutes ago, RockHardNYC said:

SO STUPID on national television

Are you saying because the Nazis referred to the the Jews as a race...that make does them a race?

I've always thought of Jews as belonging to the Semite ethnic group like many Arabs and others of that part of the world and they are not a race.

Am I wrong?

Ms. Goldberg may have been wrong in her explanation but certainly understandable when in all probability she has only seen or dealt white Jews.

[caeron]

 

From what I read of the comments, it seemed a confused comment on the concept of race which is a pretty confused concept to begin with.

I read nothing the least bit holocaust denying in the comment.

 

[TotallyOz]

1 hour ago, RockHardNYC said:

It must really suck to be Whoopi Goldberg right now.

She has made it through a few fuck ups in her career. I agree, it will be interesting to see if cancel culture cancels her. And, if this were someone else, would the outrage be greater?

[RockHardNYC]

57 minutes ago, Lonnie said:

I've always thought of Jews as belonging to the Semite ethnic group

Many people like to argue semantics when it comes to the word "race." But the truth is race and ethnicity are social constructs. As humans, we belong to the human race. 

Whoopi said "the Holocaust was not about race." She was wrong, and she's apologized several times. Her argument that "race" meant solely the color of someone's skin was ignorant, and she never should have revealed such ignorance on national television.

58 minutes ago, caeron said:

I read nothing the least bit holocaust denying in the comment.

It's true, she is not and never has been a Holocaust denier. As I said earlier, she is on-record describing herself as Jewish. But to make a false, misleading argument on national TV about race, using the Holocaust as your subject when anti-semitism is on the rise (much thanks to Donald Trump's embrace of White nationalism), is a public relations disaster for a famous, Black, female celebrity.

39 minutes ago, TotallyOz said:

She has made it through a few fuck ups in her career.

She has always enjoyed being outspoken and opinionated, which explains why she was popular on The View. However, with ABC suspending her so quickly, I'll bet lots of money the powerful suits are questioning her future with the show.

[floridarob]

From a Google search......

 

 

 

 

 

What are the 5 races?

 

 

OMB requires that race data be collected for a minimum of five groups: White, Black or African American, American Indian or Alaska Native, Asian, and Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander. OMB permits the Census Bureau to also use a sixth category - Some Other Race. Respondents may report more than one race.
 

What is an example of race?

 

 

Race refers to physical differences that groups and cultures consider socially significant. For example, people might identify their race as Aboriginal, African American or Black, Asian, European American or White, Native American, Native Hawaiian or Pacific Islander, Māori, or some other race.

 

What are the 3 human races?

 

 

The physical characteristics of the three major races (Caucasoid, Negroid and Mongoloid) vary in respect of skin colour, hair form, head form, face, eye, nose, lips, stature, blood group and dermatoglyphic features. primarily heritable physical differences from other human populations.

I've never considered Jewish a race.....if we did select them as a different race, I'm sure people would be mad for that and making them feel different ......I think people are over reacting, which seems to be the norm these days, smh

[RockHardNYC]

3 hours ago, floridarob said:

I've never considered Jewish a race.....

Are Jews a Race?

[JKane]

You know, somebody on the left side says something you can come up with a bad take on and they're possibly ruined.  Meanwhile, Gaetz, Trump, and dozens of others laugh their asses off, there's seemingly not only anything they can say bad enough to threaten them... but actual things they've DONE don't either.  

[Latbear4blk]

12 minutes ago, JKane said:

You know, somebody on the left side says something you can come up with a bad take on and they're possibly ruined.  Meanwhile, Gaetz, Trump, and dozens of others laugh their asses off, there's seemingly not only anything they can say bad enough to threaten them... but actual things they've DONE don't either.  

We live in a multiverse, my friends. We cancel each other. What we (I) find outrageous in Gaetz, millions find admirable. 

Oh, and about the debate on whether or not Jews are a race, are we not talking semantics? Although Whoopi was clearly confused, and even when the USA census may disagree, Jews were a race for the Nazis. It does not matter what we think that race is or is not. 

[RockHardNYC]

33 minutes ago, Latbear4blk said:

Jews were a race for the Nazis.

According to the Nazi's, Jews were an inferior race, one that needed to be exterminated. "This is why the Nazis targeted anyone with a Jewish grandparent, regardless of whether the person identified as Jewish or not. Nazism was a blood-based doctrine of racial supremacy, and its consequence was the genocide of the Jews."

44 minutes ago, JKane said:

Meanwhile, Gaetz, Trump, and dozens of others laugh their asses off

It's true, more now than ever. Alternate realities. My son can't figure out how they get away with their lies and bullshit. I answer, it's simple. They're in the minority, they're mostly racist, mostly White, and their Republicanism is in-bred. The only way they "win" is by sticking together and towing the party line.

I can't agree that their strategy is a winning one. Evil eventually comes back to kick you in the ass. Karma is a bitch, too. But as long as Trump is alive, and his base of fans remains strong, we'll be on this roller-coaster hell-hole ride for awhile longer, I'm sorry to say.

[PeterRS]

1 hour ago, Latbear4blk said:

Although Whoopi was clearly confused, and even when the USA census may disagree, Jews were a race for the Nazis. It does not matter what we think that race is or is not. 

Could not agree more. To the Nazis the Jews were a race, a race to be exterminated. Dictionary definitions in the 21st century are meaningless.

[floridarob]

42 minutes ago, PeterRS said:

Could not agree more. To the Nazis the Jews were a race, a race to be exterminated. Dictionary definitions in the 21st century are meaningless.

What Nazi's believed is meaningless....why should we continue with their thoughts....I still, after all this, wouldn't consider Jews a race.

[caeron]

This is what I would have wanted to say, but better to let the Rabbi say it.

[Londoner]

It is revealing that the media (even here in the UK) consider a remark by a TV personality more newsworthy than Amnesty International's report on Israeli apartheid.

Or perhaps more welcome.

[PeterRS]

On 2/3/2022 at 9:13 AM, floridarob said:

What Nazi's believed is meaningless....why should we continue with their thoughts....I still, after all this, wouldn't consider Jews a race.

I'm sorry @floridarob but what the Hitler's Nazis believed was at the absolute core of their being and should never be forgotten. Not to understand that is, in my view, not to understand the holocaust and the deliberate murder of 6 million Jews.

[RockHardNYC]

8 hours ago, PeterRS said:

Hitler's Nazis believed (that purity of race) was at the absolute core of their being and should never be forgotten.

Absolutely!

Sadly, I no longer have the patience or desire to educate the profound ignorance that exists in our gay community (unless the guy with foot-in-mouth disease is young, handsome and sexy).

PBS News: What Whoopi Goldberg's Holocaust remarks can teach us about antisemitism

[floridarob]

9 hours ago, PeterRS said:

I'm sorry @floridarob but what the Hitler's Nazis believed was at the absolute core of their being and should never be forgotten. Not to understand that is, in my view, not to understand the holocaust and the deliberate murder of 6 million Jews.

Peter, I never said anything about the Holocaust or forgetting......doesn't make being Jewish a race.......See my other comments and the post from Caeron ...

From the Holocaust Museum itself, pay attention to the last line.... but your mind is made up 🙄

Antisemitism, the fear or hatred of Jews, existed in Europe for centuries before the Holocaust. In the late 19th century, eugenics became popular. Eugenics was the theory that humans can be categorized in specific races. Each “race” had its own unchangeable traits. Some “races” were biologically, culturally, and morally superior to others. Eugenics has now been proven false.

[Londoner]

Anti-Semitism is, in my opinion, real enough and pervasive. 

However, when an Israeli Ambassador claims that the word "solidarity" is itself anti-Semitic, or that a factual report  from a respected human rights organisation that took four years of research to collate, is anti-Semitic merely because he doesn't like the findings.... it is time to use the word more accurately. 

By the way, everything that Amnesty International  reported I saw with my own eyes when I was there  between 2004 and 2017. And more.

[RockHardNYC]

Some good writing in the NY Times lately. I'm in agreement with Nathan Hersh (even though I'm not Jewish).

Whoopi Goldberg Apologized. Punishing Her Further Is Un-Jewish.

[PeterRS]

8 hours ago, RockHardNYC said:

Some good writing in the NY Times lately. I'm in agreement with Nathan Hersh (even though I'm not Jewish).

Whoopi Goldberg Apologized. Punishing Her Further Is Un-Jewish.

With all respect to all posters, may I suggest that we all accept that many news outlets are now paid sites and behind firewalls. Therefore, as in the case of the one posted by @RockHardNYC, it is not possible for many to read what is posted.

Notwithstanding, if I interpret the headline correctly, I am completely in agreement.

On 2/4/2022 at 8:41 PM, floridarob said:

Antisemitism, the fear or hatred of Jews, existed in Europe for centuries before the Holocaust. In the late 19th century, eugenics became popular. Eugenics was the theory that humans can be categorized in specific races. Each “race” had its own unchangeable traits. Some “races” were biologically, culturally, and morally superior to others. Eugenics has now been proven false.

Interesting point. 

I find it interesting that if we really go back in time to the age of the Persian Empire, the greatest the world had ever seen, it was the Persian King Cyrus the Great who liberated the Jews from captivity in Babylon and enabled them to return to what is now known as israel. Cyrus is venerated in the Bible for his actions. I wonder what it was that set the Persians/Iranians against the Jews of Israel.

[Londoner]

This was why US Zionists claimed that Trump was a reincarnation of Cyrus.  Figuratively speaking, of course...though Q anon followers may well have believed it literally!

Iran's enmity is due to the fact that Zionists colonised a predominantly Muslim and Christian country, expelled, displaced and  massacred a million plus people and   turned a Jewish 7% minority in the early thirties into a 55% majority by 1970, a majority which has 95% of the power, land and  wealth.  

The small Jewish community in Iran is an accepted minority; unlike some here in the West, Iranians are aware that Zionists, not Jews, are the perpetrators of crimes against Palestinian Christians and Muslims. And I met many heroic Israeli Jews, including Rabbis, who stood shoulder-to-shoulder with the people of Palestine.

[RockHardNYC]

15 hours ago, PeterRS said:

it is not possible for many to read what is posted.

I apologize to those board viewers who aren't subscribers to The New York Times. I happen to believe it's one of the most important news outlets in the world, so I highly recommend joining the online service. Their business is at an all-time high, which generally means they have the money to invest in good reporting.

Due to the new board rules concerning copyrighted material, you won't see me posting copyrighted material anymore, which includes text from published articles of interest. I don't like the new rules, but I prefer to show respect to the board's owner. Maybe the day will come when Oz feels like making a Fair Use case for his little playpen, and the rules will change. Fingers crossed.

If you Google the article's title, sometimes you can find the article printed elsewhere for free.

I'm happy to share newly found anecdotes that strike me as interesting topics of conversation, but I can't breast-feed everyone. For those who refuse to join NYTimes.com, for whatever reason, you may have to work a little harder to enjoy some of my posts.

[PeterRS]

6 hours ago, RockHardNYC said:

I apologize to those board viewers who aren't subscribers to The New York Times. I happen to believe it's one of the most important news outlets in the world, so I highly recommend joining the online service. Their business is at an all-time high, which generally means they have the money to invest in good reporting.

Due to the new board rules concerning copyrighted material, you won't see me posting copyrighted material anymore, which includes text from published articles of interest. I don't like the new rules, but I prefer to show respect to the board's owner. Maybe the day will come when Oz feels like making a Fair Use case for his little playpen, and the rules will change. Fingers crossed.

If you Google the article's title, sometimes you can find the article printed elsewhere for free.

I'm happy to share newly found anecdotes that strike me as interesting topics of conversation, but I can't breast-feed everyone. For those who refuse to join NYTimes.com, for whatever reason, you may have to work a little harder to enjoy some of my posts.

No apologies needed - but thanks.

Re the new rules, I have always been under the impression that quotes from media outlets are permitted provided the source is accurately included. That's what I have always done and hope it's not breaking rules. After all, providing a link to a media source is in my book identical to quoting that media source in this forum.

Perhaps Oz could restate the rules to remind us.

[RockHardNYC]

On 2/10/2022 at 8:53 PM, PeterRS said:

No apologies needed

I was apologizing to all readers who feel as you do.

On 2/10/2022 at 8:53 PM, PeterRS said:

quotes from media outlets

Quotes are not the same thing as copying the entire text of an article and posting it.

On 2/10/2022 at 8:53 PM, PeterRS said:

After all, providing a link to a media source is in my book identical to quoting that media source in this forum.

Providing a link to a media source is not identical to posting the full text (or quotes) in any forum. Your "book" is quite mistaken.

[PeterRS]

Your points are all taken. I do think we need a firmer guideline. For example, when there is a substantial chunk of an article included (and i mean something like 15-20 lines along with the link to read the rest of the article, where does that fit into the guidelines? It's not a quote. It's much too long for a quote. Yet it is not a full article (although there have been occasions when around 75% of an article has been quoted). I just think we'll all feel more comfortable with more precise guidelines as none of us wish to see the site fall foul of copyright regulations.